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[Chie Satonaka]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sident-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/?tid=sm_fb

This article is all kinds of fucked up. Two of her adopted brothers say she turned their oldest sibling Iziah against them, he now lives with her, and she says he's her son. They also said she turned him racist against white people.

The family stopped talking to her after her interview where she said all that about Larry being her stepfather, beaten with the baboon whip. She was almost 30 when she started this persona. She's divorced from her first black husband Kevin, that was an ex-boyfriend/ex-fiance Maurice who made the rap song for her.

This is goddamned Looney Tunes.

I keep thinking there's no possible way the story can get any more insane, and yet, here we are.

 

[excelsiorlef]

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I totally others just stop.

You are literally hurting trans people and trans rights.

 

[Jarate]

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

You can fall in love and join the black community without ever lying to yourself or others about your past experiences. You dont need to be black to join the NAACP

She lied to her friends and the people she's actively trying to help, for what? Acceptance for something that really doesnt matter.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

What?

 

[GameGuru59]

The reason why it's silly to be transethnic is because in this case you are saying the person is choosing to be a part of the black community. That's fine, I have a lot of black friends who would say they are a part of the white community and a ton of white friends who say they would be more comfortable in the black community. But you dont see these people painting their skin color in a certain way (beyond trying to advance in a racist society) and you dont see those same people lie to the people in their community and take up positions of power under false pretenses that theyve experienced the same things that others have. You dont have to be black to be the leader of the NAACP, you don't have to pretend to be black to be a part of the black community.

I understand she lied and everything (this is part of the reason this is funny) but that's not the point of what I'm saying. Take the fact she went about it the wrong way out of this part of the discussion.

I'm simply saying that people should have the right to define their race if they so choose. As medical technology advances, people are going to gain the ability to drastically change their racial appearance. So your white friends that might want to belong to the black community are going to be able to change their appearance so that people's first impression of them is as a black person (a VERY big deal in America, as is self evident). Should they not be able to do that?

 

[EatinOlives]

Par for the course for any complex thread

You're right, actually. I shouldn't be surprised because that happens with really large controversial threads, eventually the same arguments start repeating themselves among different people.

 

[Jarate]

I understand she lied and everything (this is part of the reason this is funny) but that's not the point of what I'm saying. Take the fact she went about it the wrong way out of this part of the discussion.

I'm simply saying that people should have the right to define their race if they so choose. As medical technology advances, people are going to gain the ability to drastically change their racial appearance. So your white friends that might want to belong to the black community are going to be able to change their appearance so that people's first impression of them is as a black person (a VERY big deal in America, as is self evident). Should they not be able to do that?

I would find it extremely racist actually. It implies that black persons dont want white people to help them or be friends with them unless they met some arbitrary skin color barometer

And even then, that's a purely cosmetic thing, and I would hope that those friends still consider themselves white or caucasian in terms of the way they grew up and the way there ancestors grew up.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I Love humanity...

I CANNOT believe this story's real

 

[GameGuru59]

You can fall in love and join the black community without ever lying to yourself or others about your past experiences.

No you can't. Not really. And it really doesn't work the other way. I can't, as a black man, join the "white community" and be fully accepted as a white person. That is not the current state of race in America world.

 

[Ovid]

I wanna hear what Lacy Schwartz has to say on this. She always thought she was 100% Jewish until people started dropping clues. She found out her biological father was black. The documentary was pretty good.

I missed out on this when it played in NY.

I want to see it.

 

[The Silver]

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

trans-people don't "fall in love" with the culture of whatever sex and then choose to change because of that , their brains are literally telling them their minds are in the wrong body. That is not similar to what Rachel is doing.

 

[block tower]

I think if transracial is a "thing" I'm no longer on board with being accepting of other people lol, just the idea is so insane I cant listen to someone try and rationalize why it's a thing.

 

[Jarate]

No you can't. Not really. And it really doesn't work the other way. I can't, as a black man, join the "white community" and be fully accepted as a white person. That is not the current state of race in America world.

ignoring the hundreds of years of racism that exists that shows why this somewhat still exists, you can in fact join the white community as a black man (although im sure it would be incredibly awkward and filled with a lot of diet racism). But being a part of the "white community" doesnt even mean your white, you just live up to the standards of a social structure that white people created.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think if transracial is a "thing" I'm no longer on board with being accepting of other people lol, just the idea is so insane I cant listen to someone try and rationalize why it's a thing.

Sammy Sosa would like to have a word with you. As would the makers of Cake Soap, who would be leading the revolution from the shadows should a movement grow.

 

[Cyriades]

NAACP released a statement

http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-statement-on-rachel-dolezal

I feel the same way. NAACP got it right.

 

[Crossing Eden]

trans-people don't "fall in love" with the culture of whatever sex and then choose to change because of that , their brains are literally telling them their minds are in the wrong body. That is not similar to what Rachel is doing.

Exactly, why does this keep having to be stated?

 

[Nephtis]

trans-people don't "fall in love" with the culture of whatever sex and then choose to change because of that , their brains are literally telling them their minds are in the wrong body. That is not similar to what Rachel is doing.

What if it was though?

Putting her aside, what if someone really did identify as a member of a certain race? What if, to them, their skin color doesn't match with what they perceive themselves as? What if such a case was genuine?

I'm not trying to prove a point or anything, I really want to know what you (or anyone for that matter) thinks about it.

 

[block tower]

Sammy Sosa would like to have a word with you. As would the makers of Cake Soap, who would be leading the revolution from the shadows should a movement grow.

well I'm not on board with this "transracial movement". it's nothing but fuckery. I can try and understand and empathize with the LGBT movement, but a transracial movement is where I stop, not even interested.

 

[Crossing Eden]

What if it was though?

Putting her aside, what if someone really did identify as a member of a certain race? What if, to them, their skin color doesn't match with what they perceive themselves as? What if such a case was genuine?

I'm not trying to prove a point or anything, I really want to know what you (or anyone for that matter) thinks about it.

It was stated earlier, but unlike a person who's trangender, where there's a scientific explanation behind it, a person can "identify" or perceive themselves as anything, an example brought up before was that some people identify themselves as part dog or in ridiculous casesart dragon and other fictional creatures. The two are not the same.

 

[GameGuru59]

trans-people don't "fall in love" with the culture of whatever sex and then choose to change because of that , their brains are literally telling them their minds are in the wrong body. That is not similar to what Rachel is doing.

It's similar in the way people are reacting to the notion of a person being transracial, when really, there's nothing wrong with the concept in theory in my view.

I would find it extremely racist actually. It implies that black persons dont want white people to help them or be friends with them unless they met some arbitrary skin color barometer

And even then, that's a purely cosmetic thing, and I would hope that those friends still consider themselves white or caucasian in terms of the way they grew up and the way there ancestors grew up.

It's not purely cosmetic, if people's reactions to white people and black people are very different, and very contingent on skin color. A person changing that is going to have a huge impact of their life. A white person living in Kenya might want to change their skin color to receive greater social acceptance within black social groups, for example. A black person in America might want to lighten or become straight up white to improve the quality of life. People's first impressions are highly contingent on skin color too. If I start dating a white woman here in the south (as a black man), her parents reaction to our being together is going to be very different from me as a white man. Hell, I can tell you it's much harder to pick up women for me at an SEC school than at an HBCU just because of my skin color- even with code switching. So again, I ask, if a person feels more comfortable with a particular ethnic group, what exactly would be wrong with altering their appearance to belong to another race?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

well I'm not on board with this "transracial movement". it's nothing but fuckery. I can try and understand and empathize with the LGBT movement, but a transracial movement is where I stop, not even interested.

No doubt. But where there's a will (and money to be made) there is a way.

 

[Ovid]

I think if transracial is a "thing" I'm no longer on board with being accepting of other people lol, just the idea is so insane I cant listen to someone try and rationalize why it's a thing.

So in this post-transracial world, apparently white folks can turn into black folks. Does it work the other way around?

If not, I'm calling bullshit.

 

[akira28]

I feel the same way. NAACP got it right.

welp. She's going through court battles with her parents? Suddenly explains a whole whole lot of shit.

Not Rachel herself, but a lot of it.

 

[GameGuru59]

So in this post-transracial world, apparently white folks can turn into black folks. Does it work the other way around?

If not, I'm calling bullshit.

Well, there is skin bleach...

 

[The Silver]

What if it was though?

Putting her aside, what if someone really did identify as a member of a certain race? What if, to them, their skin color doesn't match with what they perceive themselves as? What if such a case was genuine?

I'm not trying to prove a point or anything, I really want to know what you (or anyone for that matter) thinks about it.

again with these stupid "what ifs", what if someone perceives themselves as a lion? what if such a case was genuine?

you can have surgery and put on whiskers and run on all 4s all you want, you will never be an actual damn lion. If someone wants to change their skin then change your damn skin, your racial heritage won't retroactively change into whatever you want, it's set in stone.

 

[Einchy]

So in this post-transracial world, apparently white folks can turn into black folks. Does it work the other way around?

If not, I'm calling bullshit.

.

 

[lastflowers]

Yes you can "test" to see if your trans, they have done this before, but CT Scans cost a shit ton of money and aren't really worth it when the people theyve been testing have confirmed their results that trans are people in the wrong body. And like I said before, you aren't going to say you are trans, unless you are actively experiencing those very specific things. There are feelings that trans persons have that a poster above mine has that basically confirm if you are trans or not. We do diagnose trans persons in this way.

That's awesome, I never knew (or had forgotten) about the ability for brain scan testing. Technology and science must be so god damn liberating for anyone who has had to live with suppressing that. How in the world anyone actually lives to get to that point is mindboggling to me--far braver than I think I would be.

 

[Nephtis]

It was stated earlier, but unlike a person who's trangender, where there's a scientific explanation behind it, a person can "identify" or perceive themselves as anything, an example brought up before was that some people identify themselves as part dog or in ridiculous casesart dragon and other fictional creatures. The two are not the same.

I think that in Rachel's case, she is mentally ill. If she's going to go as far as making fake threats and shitting on white people for the sake of attention, to try to prove that she's "one of them", then it merits questioning.

However, the same could have been said decades ago about people who are transgender. We may have the scientific explanation for it now, but back then it wasn't anything but an excuse and a figmentation of someone's mind. The whole transracial thing could very well fall within the mental illness category, but I think it at least deserves a look at by the scientific community.

 

[soundahfekz]

I think if transracial is a "thing" I'm no longer on board with being accepting of other people lol, just the idea is so insane I cant listen to someone try and rationalize why it's a thing.

man forreal

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think that in Rachel's case, she is mentally ill. If she's going to go as far as making fake threats and shitting on white people for the sake of attention, to try to prove that she's "one of them", then it merits questioning.

However, the same could have been said decades ago about people who are transgender. We may have the scientific explanation for it now, but back then it wasn't anything but an excuse and a figmentation of someone's mind. The whole transracial thing could very well fall within the mental illness category, but I think it at least deserves a look at by the scientific community.

This is why I said she needs to see a therapist. That should be her first stop. She's dealing with things in an unhealthy way.

 

[GameGuru59]

again with these stupid "what ifs", what if someone perceives themselves as a lion? what if such a case was genuine?

you can have surgery and put on whiskers and run on all 4s all you want, you will never be an actual damn lion. If someone wants to change their skin then change your damn skin, your racial heritage won't retroactively change into whatever you want, it's set in stone.

lol, we're not talking about a species change here. We're talking about affiliation with an ethnicity.

 

[xaosslug]

I feel the same way. NAACP got it right.

this is only Day 1.

 

[JDSN]

"What if this thing that does not belong to reality would happen?" is some weird stuff to bring out in a talk, go write a fan fiction or something.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Now I know why she chose to be black.

 

[The Silver]

lol, we're not talking about a species change here. We're talking about affiliation with an ethnicity.

notice how when I tied it back into the race change I said racial heritage, not changing a species

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Now I know why she chose to be black.

she's not the first and won't be the last.

 

[xaosslug]

I think if transracial is a "thing" I'm no longer on board with being accepting of other people lol, just the idea is so insane I cant listen to someone try and rationalize why it's a thing.

this is my thought, tbh. At what point does it become a mental illness, like wanting to sever your limbs/handicap yourself? >_<

 

[GameGuru59]

notice how when I tied it back into the race change I said racial heritage, not changing a species

But your racial heritage does not define your racial identity. Your heritage is irrelevant outside how people perceive you in the world. This is about self perception and self identification. If a white baby is adopted by a black family in a black neighborhood, I'm pretty sure that baby is going to identify better with the black community and adopt many elements of black culture.

 

[J10]

"What if this thing that does not belong to reality would happen?" is some weird stuff to bring out in a talk, go write a fan fiction or something.

Maybe humanity until yesterday did not have the capacity to even being to identify or understand it. How lucky are we to be able to put a date on such a discovery?

 

[Damerman]

NAACP released a statement

http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-statement-on-rachel-dolezal

Agreed with naacp.

Call me new black or whatever the hell else you want, but im not changing my mind on this.

 

[Derwind]

What if it was though?

Putting her aside, what if someone really did identify as a member of a certain race? What if, to them, their skin color doesn't match with what they perceive themselves as? What if such a case was genuine?

I'm not trying to prove a point or anything, I really want to know what you (or anyone for that matter) thinks about it.

Well race is an awfully inaccurate social construct.

But that aside, the question would come down to in my mind if this was due to nature or nurture.

And then, would they have like some easily identifiable brain patterns when it comes to "ethnic/racial" identity?

And obviously I'm not a neurosurgeon but is that even a case race or ethnicity, do we think different?

Which on its own, brings to mind the racism accept by the medical field in the bygone days of the U.S. and Europe.

There are a lot of questions to think about, I guess. :/

 

[Atrophis]

again with these stupid "what ifs", what if someone perceives themselves as a lion? what if such a case was genuine?

you can have surgery and put on whiskers and run on all 4s all you want, you will never be an actual damn lion. If someone wants to change their skin then change your damn skin, your racial heritage won't retroactively change into whatever you want, it's set in stone.

In a few years Tusk will be seen as a landmark film about the struggles of the transanimal movement.

 

[GameGuru59]

In a few years Tusk will be seen as a landmark film about the struggles of the transanimal movement.

Nah, Animorphs beat them to it.

 

[xaosslug]

In a few years Tusk will be seen as a landmark film about the struggles of the transanimal movement.

nooooooooooooooo

 

[JustenP88]

So, I guess it's safe to assume she completely made up all the shit about being born in a teepee, hunting for food with bows and arrows as a kid and being whipped. So fucking bizarre.

Hopefully there's someone out there she respects enough to listen to that can get through to her. She needs to iron out whatever wrinkles she's got in her head.

 

[royalan]

Agreed with naacp.

Call me new black or whatever the hell else you want, but im not changing my mind on this.

The NAACP statement is straight up bull, and I'm surprised anyone could agree with it when it completely side-steps the thing everyone is talking about.

Nobody cares about a white person working for the NAACP, in any capacity.

Somebody donning the look of another race, lying about being a member of said race, faking racial death threats and chastising black men for dating white women...THAT'S what people are mad at.

And their statement does nothing to address that. PR deflection at its finest, but there's no profound statement to be found here. This is literally the NAACP tucking their tail between their legs while they ask behind the scenes, "Did you know? Did you? Because I sure as hell didn't..."

 

[Ovid]

The NAACP statement is straight up bull, and I'm surprised anyone could agree with it when it completely side-steps the thing everyone is talking about.

Nobody cares about a white person working for the NAACP, in any capacity.

Somebody donning the look of another race, lying about being a member of said race, faking racial death threats and chastising black men for dating white women...THAT'S what people are mad at.

And their statement does nothing to address that. PR deflection at its finest, but there's no profound statement to be found here. This is literally the NAACP tucking their tail between their legs while they ask behind the scenes, "Did you know? Did you? Because I sure as hell didn't..."

Agreed.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

The NAACP statement is straight up bull, and I'm surprised anyone could agree with it when it completely side-steps the thing everyone is talking about.

Nobody cares about a white person working for the NAACP, in any capacity.

Somebody donning the look of another race, lying about being a member of said race, faking racial death threats and chastising black men for dating white women...THAT'S what people are mad at.

And their statement does nothing to address that. PR deflection at its finest, but there's no profound statement to be found here. This is literally the NAACP tucking their tail between their legs while they ask behind the scenes, "Did you know? Did you? Because I sure as hell didn't..."

Spot on.

 

[rhandino]

The NAACP statement is straight up bull, and I'm surprised anyone could agree with it when it completely side-steps the thing everyone is talking about.

Nobody cares about a white person working for the NAACP, in any capacity.

Somebody donning the look of another race, lying about being a member of said race, faking racial death threats and chastising black men for dating white women...THAT'S what people are mad at.

And their statement does nothing to address that. PR deflection at its finest, but there's no profound statement to be found here. This is literally the NAACP tucking their tail between their legs while they ask behind the scenes, "Did you know? Did you? Because I sure as hell didn't..."

This basically.

 

[Slayven]

The NAACP statement is straight up bull, and I'm surprised anyone could agree with it when it completely side-steps the thing everyone is talking about.

Nobody cares about a white person working for the NAACP, in any capacity.

Somebody donning the look of another race, lying about being a member of said race, faking racial death threats and chastising black men for dating white women...THAT'S what people are mad at.

And their statement does nothing to address that. PR deflection at its finest, but there's no profound statement to be found here. This is literally the NAACP tucking their tail between their legs while they ask behind the scenes, "Did you know? Did you? Because I sure as hell didn't..."

They look bad either way, but now they look really bad for sticking with a known liar. Might as well set their credibility on fire.