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[MrNyarlathotep]

Why are you making the assumption that the focus tests asks loaded questions? You're making that up to get yourself angry.

I'm not angry, but asking whether a focus group has a problem with the main characters gender is inherently a loaded question.

Again; this isn't a story where when asked questions like "How do you feel about the main character?" / "Can you give a word that best describes your feelings about the main character?" / "Would you be excited to play a game starring this character?" or any of the other usual questions asked, where focus groups came back saying "I dunno, its a woman and I hate them..." and they had to react accordingly.

This is a story where the dev team wanted a female character and internally executives argued with them saying that people wouldn't go for that. So they had to have focus groups specifically asking that question just to make those executives stfu and - lo and behold! - its not a problem at all.

 

[Berserker976]

So they had to have focus groups specifically asking that question just to make those executives stfu

Dude, you keep saying this, but do you actually have any source? Because that seems to be to be 100% your extrapolation that you're trying to pass off as fact.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Dude, you keep saying this, but do you actually have any source? Because that seems to be to be 100% your extrapolation that you're trying to pass off as fact.

God, if only there was some statement about that being exactly what happened in the OP.

but we had a discussion. Is it risky to do a female character?"

In fact, once development was underway, so many questions were asked about the protagonist internally, that the company brought in a marketing team to do some focus testing.

 

[Berserker976]

God, if only there was some statement about that being exactly what happened in the OP.

Haha, the next line though:

"We wanted to see how people would react to some of the things: open world RPG, the set up of machine versus primitive weapons and the female protagonist. All of those things."

You're making it sound like this insidious thing where all these Sony execs brought people together specifically to try and shoot down the idea of a female protagonist, when it's much more likely that it just became a facet of a run-of-the-mill focus test.

 

[spons]

That is why it has almost 2 million views on YouTube last time I looked and also won or received lots of nominations for Best Of Show. You just look butthurt about something.

I'd rather vox pop and see how the game is doing in terms of hype than focus test with a loaded, almost misogynistic question. I'm more pissed off about this world than butthurt to be honest.

 

[fedexpeon]

After seeing the female MC in action in Horizon, I don't think I can play a male character even if they allowed you to create your gender.
She fits for the role. Her red hair is too good.

 

[Kas]

After seeing the female MC in action in Horizon, I don't think I can play a male character even if they allowed you to create your gender.
She fits for the role. Her red hair is too good.

This.

Everything about the game just fits together so perfectly.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

Not usually a fan of playing pre-determined hero's in RPG's, As usually i cant stand the look of them( Geralt )..

But i think i'll give this game a go as she clearly has something about her, Shes incredibly well designed, I think she fits the narrative of the world well.

 

[Violater]

Yasssss all over my face #kissedbyfire

 

[CadetMahoney]

They should of just played it safe with a bald space marine or 30-something brown haired white male.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.

The fact that this thread has 25 pages means that they had every reason to be worried.

 

[Nightengale]

There's so much misassumptions regarding stuff like this. Stuff that if you step back and look/read the actual sentences, you'd see the full picture.

Who do you think gets the "first-look" when a game is pitched by an internal WWS studio?

It's Shuhei Yoshida. The fact that the game went into development as it was meant that he greenlit the whole concept of a female protagonist and robo-dinosaurs when the whole thing was probably just pictures and ideas.

Yes, he himself had the discussion about the gender, and it was discussed internally, but what was the result of that discussion? The game proceeded into actual development with a female protagonist, the actual vision, which means Shu was "okay" with it, and didn't do some bullshit like "change that, or the funding is cut."

He himself said the "concern" started once they started showing it to more people within Sony. Probably other WWS junior employees, SCEA/JA/E employees from marketing, etc.

It's a natural reaction to consider stuff like focus testing. Yes, it's important to protect the developer's vision, but focus-testing is also important, when it comes to a big budget title. It's at a scale where a flop can be disastrous, after all.

In the ideal perfect world, Shu could've told his marketing colleagues/peers "fuck your concerns, my devs want a female protagonist and dinorobots, deal with it!" But that's not the reality we live in.

So what's exactly the problem here? Shu greenlit the game, but as more people learned about the game, they raised concerns, Shu addressed said concerns by having focus testers, results were positive, game proceeded as it was.

 

[spons]

The term focus testing rings like marketing in my ears anyway, I doubt Yoshida planned to take a dump on the project from the get-to. I've done some hype posting in this thread that might not be the best worded thing ever but I just don't want fucking marketing of all things to meddle with this great concept.

I seriously wonder just how many people think a female protagonist is a game changing problem here. Simply finding some sales numbers of games does not prove anything in my opinion, games can be barely advertised or poorly designed with or without a female protagonist and sell worse because of it.

The concept of this game is intriguing and I rather have this than another guaranteed-income sequel, regardless of whether those games have men or women in them.

Let's not forget he said something else in the source of this thread:

Like there is a new lead in Assassin's Creed, and Mirror's Edge is back. I feel great that there is more diversity in the kind of worlds and kind of characters that we are making as an industry.

That sounds way more positive than just "let's focus test the shit out of this project and let a small gaming audience filling in a questionnaire decide where to go with this".

 

[benny_a]

There's so much misassumptions regarding stuff like this. Stuff that if you step back and look/read the actual sentences, you'd see the full picture.
[...]

This is what I don't understand.

I read this as Shuhei as exec-shit-talking that the vision by his team (and what he decided to fund) was the right thing as seen by the reception and the marketing people should shut up the next time about what he brings to the table.
As I wrote here:

[...]
I think Shuhei knows exactly what he is doing with these "marketing tried to make us change it, but SCEWWS resisted" answers he is giving. Maybe to strengthen his own position after the reception is good like with Horizon or TLOU or because it gives cred on NeoGAF for sticking to your guns.
The chronology he talks about is clear: We developed it like we wanted, AND THEN they wanted us to change it but ultimately we didn't.

And then you have people on GAF that read it completely different and go on semi #OutWithShu campaign rants.

 

[semiconscious]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.

all i'm getting from this is that he personally supported the project as is, but had concerns as to how it'd be received by a wider audience. which i'm thinking is part of his job? what'm i missing?...

 

[Johndoey]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.

How so?

 

[mordecaii83]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.

I honestly don't get how people come to this conclusion considering the amazing list of announcements we had at E3 this year...

As an exec, Shuhei has an obligation to try to keep the company profitable, so how can you fault him for doing his job? He also has to keep the other parts of the company happy, including marketing and upper management/shareholders. It sounds like he was never against using a female protagonist, yet some people seem to be insinuating that he was.

 

[nampad]

How so?

I honestly don't get how people come to this conclusion considering the amazing list of announcements we had at E3 this year...

As an exec, Shuhei has an obligation to try to keep the company profitable, so how can you fault him for doing his job? He also has to keep the other parts of the company happy, including marketing and upper management/shareholders. It sounds like he was never against using a female protagonist, yet some people seem to be insinuating that he was.

The Sony first party has been the weakest for years now, while the whole "no games" talk is silly, it doesn't come out of nowhere.

He send out games to die on PS3 (Puppetteer, rain) instead of supporting other platforms in need of those games, at least as cross platform releases.
Having GT6 on PS3 only was possibly the stupidest move ever and with Polyphony's development speed we can wait for a PS4 one for quite some time. He probably banked on Driveclub, which was delayed for a year and ended up releasing broken, what a hell of a job.

Some of those aforementioned games come from SCEJ btw, which has been mismanaged for quite some time and sending over Alan Becker did nothing except them focusing on PS4 even more, what Yoshida probably wants.
The result is, that even SCEJ isn't supporting the healthiest Sony platform in Japan and the hunting IPs they build up are practically dead now because those don't sell on PS4.

Yoshida hasn't made any new interesting partnerships with new talented studios. Instead, he lost Insomniac, gave money to RaD for a mediocre The Order after nobody else was dumb enough to fund their home console ambitions, contracted Nihilistic studios even after they already delivered a shitty Sony game for one of their biggest IPs and he strings along Supermassive Games for Until Dawn which got reworked several times now.

Meanwhile he shattered some great studios, which admittedly didn't perform well, which was also due to his planning. Another great example is Bend, who did nothing for 2 years after delivering a good Vita launch game.

This are just some examples.

The PS4 is doing well thanks to MS (and Nintendo, lol) doing relatively bad. They are also lucky to get a lot of (exclusive) 3rd party support practically for free from Japan.

 

[Nightengale]

As an exec, Shuhei has an obligation to try to keep the company profitable, so how can you fault him for doing his job? He also has to keep the other parts of the company happy, including marketing and upper management/shareholders. It sounds like he was never against using a female protagonist, yet some people seem to be insinuating that he was.

I think there's often a misunderstanding in regards to the roles within SCE, in general as well.

WWS (1st-party) for all intents and purposes, is largely 'separate' from stuff like SCE's software marketing, hardware marketing, 3rd-party publishing, etc.

Shu's job is to fund & manage the IP porfolio of internally developed exclusives.

But the job of marketing them actually goes to the SCE marketing division. That's why we have situations where Shu has to "push" for localisation of games like Oreshika or Freedom Wars, and even when it was localised, marketing for said games are complete garbage because SCEA/E marketing doesn't believe in putting in the money to market said games.

It's the same as Boyes's team. He does his work completely separate from Shu's team. He didn't have a "1-year long master plan" with Shu to introduce TLG, Shenmue & FF at E3 this year. At GB, he stated he only found out because Shu told him through the phone when he told Shu about the Shenmue kickstarter only a few months before E3. Before that, Boyes wasn't aware TLG was planned to be at E3 that year.

 

[Skux]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.

Because it should be a no-brainer to fund a multi-million dollar investment with no assurance of a return, right?

- Guerrilla makes new IP with female protagonist
- Shu thinks it's risky, decides to do some focus testing
- Focus group reactions are positive, giving him peace of mind with the project

Sounds like he did his job exactly as he should.

 

[mordecaii83]

The Sony first party has been the weakest for years now, while the whole "no games" talk is silly, it doesn't come out of nowhere.

He send out games to die on PS3 (Puppetteer, rain) instead of supporting other platforms in need of those games, at least as cross platform releases.
Having GT6 on PS3 only was possibly the stupidest move ever and with Polyphony's development speed we can wait for a PS4 one for quite some time. He probably banked on Driveclub, which was delayed for a year and ended up releasing broken, what a hell of a job.

Some of those aforementioned games come from SCEJ btw, which has been mismanaged for quite some time and sending over Alan Becker did nothing except them focusing on PS4 even more, what Yoshida probably wants.
The result is, that even SCEJ isn't supporting the healthiest Sony platform in Japan and the hunting IPs they build up are practically dead now because those don't sell on PS4.

Yoshida hasn't made any new interesting partnerships with new talented studios. Instead, he lost Insomniac, gave money to RaD for a mediocre The Order after nobody else was dumb enough to fund their home console ambitions, contracted Nihilistic studios even after they already delivered a shitty Sony game for one of their biggest IPs and he strings along Supermassive Games for Until Dawn which got reworked several times now.

Meanwhile he shattered some great studios, which admittedly didn't perform well, which was also due to his planning. Another great example is Bend, who did nothing for 2 years after delivering a good Vita launch game.

This are just some examples.

The PS4 is doing well thanks to MS (and Nintendo, lol) doing relatively bad. They are also lucky to get a lot of (exclusive) 3rd party support practically for free from Japan.

You're absolutely right, they should have completely stopped supporting PS3 just like MS and Nintendo, because everyone was super happy about that right?

And they did try with Vita, it had one of the best launches in terms of software of any game device. Japan may like Vita, but it bombing in the rest of the world is a bigger deal than it doing relatively well over there.

And Sony are only in first place because the other two screwed up? Really? That may be part of it, but if Sony was doing nothing right then they would not be outselling the PS2 at similar points in their life.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The PS4 is doing well thanks to MS (and Nintendo, lol) doing relatively bad. They are also lucky to get a lot of (exclusive) 3rd party support practically for free from Japan.

I really, really hate this bullshit argument that I keep seeing. By your logic, PS1 only did well because everyone else did so bad. PS2 only did well because everyone else did so bad. 360 only did well because Sony messed up the PS3 launch.

How about, in each generation, the company that makes the better product with the better messaging and marketing wins. Sure, it helps when your competition flubs their product launch, but to say that's the only reason PS4 is doing well is nonsense.

 

[Skux]

The PS4 is doing well thanks to MS (and Nintendo, lol) doing relatively bad. They are also lucky to get a lot of (exclusive) 3rd party support practically for free from Japan.

That is a meaningless statement. From another perspective, the Xbox One is doing poorly because Sony is doing relatively better.

And the "free" Japanese support is a result of two decades of loyalty to Japanese developers. Hardly easy.

 

[autoduelist]

It's literally in the OP;
GG wanted female lead.
Sony execs went "oo-er... not so sure".
Focus group asked specifically about a female lead said "What? Why are you even asking that?"
Execs went "Oh, I guess it's okay then. Phew! Better let journos know of our brave decision!"

No, it's not. That they wanted focus testing is in the OP. The questions asked are not, and your 'fake' made up questions that you're getting upset about are in your head.

It's perfectly sane of them to make sure a female protag would resonate with audiences. Acting like their concern isn't normal or is somehow 'wrong' is silly. This is a major project costing millions.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

The Sony first party has been the weakest for years now, while the whole "no games" talk is silly, it doesn't come out of nowhere.

He send out games to die on PS3 (Puppetteer, rain) instead of supporting other platforms in need of those games, at least as cross platform releases.
Having GT6 on PS3 only was possibly the stupidest move ever and with Polyphony's development speed we can wait for a PS4 one for quite some time. He probably banked on Driveclub, which was delayed for a year and ended up releasing broken, what a hell of a job.

Some of those aforementioned games come from SCEJ btw, which has been mismanaged for quite some time and sending over Alan Becker did nothing except them focusing on PS4 even more, what Yoshida probably wants.
The result is, that even SCEJ isn't supporting the healthiest Sony platform in Japan and the hunting IPs they build up are practically dead now because those don't sell on PS4.

Yoshida hasn't made any new interesting partnerships with new talented studios. Instead, he lost Insomniac, gave money to RaD for a mediocre The Order after nobody else was dumb enough to fund their home console ambitions, contracted Nihilistic studios even after they already delivered a shitty Sony game for one of their biggest IPs and he strings along Supermassive Games for Until Dawn which got reworked several times now.

Meanwhile he shattered some great studios, which admittedly didn't perform well, which was also due to his planning. Another great example is Bend, who did nothing for 2 years after delivering a good Vita launch game.

This are just some examples.

The PS4 is doing well thanks to MS (and Nintendo, lol) doing relatively bad. They are also lucky to get a lot of (exclusive) 3rd party support practically for free from Japan.

This post delusional at best

 

[Two Words]

People are up front about not giving a shit about this game, what better indication do you need?


This is hardly foolish. I'm checking polls from three different cultures and communities and nobody gives a shit. And yes, I'm making the assumption that it will not sell well based on this. What are you going to do about it?

Buy you the comfiest of arm chairs.

 

[Callibretto]

That is a meaningless statement. From another perspective, the Xbox One is doing poorly because Sony is doing relatively better.

And the "free" Japanese support is a result of two decades of loyalty to Japanese developers. Hardly easy.

also with the current games market in Japan, if Sony didn't do anything, they'll abandon console games in favor to mobile games even faster.

Verendus mention that Sony had hands on a lot of stuff from Japan, Street Fighter 5, FF 7R, Nier, Deep Down, etc.

Sony definitely did not have it easy in Japan.

 

[autoduelist]

argh, my response got garbled somehow. no time to rewrite. sorry for post.

 

[Portugeezer]

I am glad they went with their vision.

Why would it be risky? Female protagonists are the new 'hot' thing now. Even some TV show producers won't work with scripts unless there's a female lead in them. And I'm really glad to see this trend happening in gaming too

The character from this game has a really great design. This game looks awesome.

I also hope that female protagonists are not just a fad, but only time will tell.

Probably some "dude-bro's" who wouldn't want to play as a female protagonist. I disagree that it's the "new hot thing", they will undoubtedly lose some sales due to having a female only protagonist. How much? I don't know.

 

[Two Words]

I'm not angry, but asking whether a focus group has a problem with the main characters gender is inherently a loaded question.

Again; this isn't a story where when asked questions like "How do you feel about the main character?" / "Can you give a word that best describes your feelings about the main character?" / "Would you be excited to play a game starring this character?" or any of the other usual questions asked, where focus groups came back saying "I dunno, its a woman and I hate them..." and they had to react accordingly.

This is a story where the dev team wanted a female character and internally executives argued with them saying that people wouldn't go for that. So they had to have focus groups specifically asking that question just to make those executives stfu and - lo and behold! - its not a problem at all.

Receipts on that last paragraph, please.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Because it should be a no-brainer to fund a multi-million dollar investment with no assurance of a return, right?

- Guerrilla makes new IP with female protagonist
- Shu thinks it's risky, decides to do some focus testing
- Focus group reactions are positive, giving him peace of mind with the project

Sounds like he did his job exactly as he should.

What makes it risky because it is a female character? As the focus testing showed, his fears were baseless. They have no context in the current state of the industry. If he'd been paying attention to the stuff Sony and other publishers had put out before, he'd realise he was wrong before all of that. Yoshida in this case showed archaic thinking. Don't get me wrong, glad focus testing was done, but it needed not be done whatsoever, and I don't know what kind of effect it might have had on the dev team at GG.

The most risky aspect of this game is the fact that it is a new IP. Nothing else.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Receipts on that last paragraph, please.

From the OP, and repeated by me on this very page:

but we had a discussion. Is it risky to do a female character?"

In fact, once development was underway, so many questions were asked about the protagonist internally, that the company brought in a marketing team to do some focus testing.

 

[ironcreed]

This.

Everything about the game just fits together so perfectly.

I was floored with how everything just flows together both visually and conceptually. Talk about nailing it.

 

[benny_a]

What makes it risky because it is a female character? As the focus testing showed, his fears were baseless. They have no context in the current state of the industry. If he'd been paying attention to the stuff Sony and other publishers had put out before, he'd realise he was wrong before all of that. Yoshida in this case showed archaic thinking. Don't get me wrong, glad focus testing was done, but it needed not be done whatsoever, and I don't know what kind of effect it might have had on the dev team at GG.

The most risky aspect of this game is the fact that it is a new IP. Nothing else.

You seem to not be getting that he green lid the project with a female lead. He doesn't have to do that. He could just not green light it.
As the software portfolio manager he has to turn down way more pitches than he approves pitches.

When he showed it around, as he has to do because he isn't the boss of the different regions, those fears came up.
He funded other titles that had female leads and they don't automatically get a marketing budget in every region for various reasons.

 

[autoduelist]

From the OP, and repeated by me on this very page:

And as you've been told many times, what you are saying and what that sentence is saying are miles apart -- to the point that you must be being intentionally disingenuous at this point.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

And as you've been told many times, what you are saying and what that sentence is saying are miles apart -- to the point that you must be being intentionally disingenuous at this point.

wat

How do you interpret that sentence?

so many questions were asked about the protagonist internally, that the company brought in a marketing team to do some focus testing.

 

[Steel]

And as you've been told many times, what you are saying and what that sentence is saying are miles apart -- to the point that you must be being intentionally disingenuous at this point.

Actually, I don't see how what he's saying and what I read in that quote are different. At all.

 

[nampad]

This post delusional at best

Thanks for such a thought out answer.

You're absolutely right, they should have completely stopped supporting PS3 just like MS and Nintendo, because everyone was super happy about that right?

And they did try with Vita, it had one of the best launches in terms of software of any game device. Japan may like Vita, but it bombing in the rest of the world is a bigger deal than it doing relatively well over there.

And Sony are only in first place because the other two screwed up? Really? That may be part of it, but if Sony was doing nothing right then they would not be outselling the PS2 at similar points in their life.

They could have moved to crossgen releases. Packing so many releases in a year for the PS3 exclusively with the PS4 launching didn't make sense, especially when some of them weren't even marketed.

I agree that they tried with the Vita in some regard but even then, Yoshida made horrible decisions. How in hell could he give Nihilistic (after Playstation Move Heroes) the Resistance IP? How did he not get Bend to work on something else for 2 years after their launch game but instead cowered before ND by not letting them use the Uncharted IP anymore.
How could he think it is a good idea to push out Modnation Racers and Unit 13 without online?

Where are all the other bigger Sony IPs like GoW or GT, of which the latter actually does have some platform selling power?

For the rest, see below.

I really, really hate this bullshit argument that I keep seeing. By your logic, PS1 only did well because everyone else did so bad. PS2 only did well because everyone else did so bad. 360 only did well because Sony messed up the PS3 launch.

How about, in each generation, the company that makes the better product with the better messaging and marketing wins. Sure, it helps when your competition flubs their product launch, but to say that's the only reason PS4 is doing well is nonsense.

Sony launched a better product but that is not thanks to Yoshida, about whom we are talking. That is about having good hardware at a good price point.
He is responsible for the first party studios, which do worse than before.

 

[Bill Squabber]

What makes it risky because it is a female character? As the focus testing showed, his fears were baseless. They have no context in the current state of the industry. If he'd been paying attention to the stuff Sony and other publishers had put out before, he'd realise he was wrong before all of that. Yoshida in this case showed archaic thinking. Don't get me wrong, glad focus testing was done, but it needed not be done whatsoever, and I don't know what kind of effect it might have had on the dev team at GG.

The most risky aspect of this game is the fact that it is a new IP. Nothing else.

Some people want to play as a high testosterone male.

Yup and I'm one of them. Nothing against females. I love them and respect them. I have the best girlfriend in the world and I treat her like a princess. But playing as one in a video game I cannot.

I just cannot enjoy it and immerse my self into the world. As with most high testosterone males we want to come home from a long day at work and put on a video game and feel empowered for a short while. I just cant do that when playing as chick with big tits and vagina.

only exception is Ellie from Last of US. and I have no idea why it didn't bother me with her.

I realize I'm going to get a lot of hate for his post and probably get banned from GAF but just wanted to be honest.

 

[SolidSnakex]

What makes it risky because it is a female character? As the focus testing showed, his fears were baseless. They have no context in the current state of the industry. If he'd been paying attention to the stuff Sony and other publishers had put out before, he'd realise he was wrong before all of that. Yoshida in this case showed archaic thinking. Don't get me wrong, glad focus testing was done, but it needed not be done whatsoever, and I don't know what kind of effect it might have had on the dev team at GG.

The most risky aspect of this game is the fact that it is a new IP. Nothing else.

Look at female led new IP's. Mirror's Edge, Wet, Bayonetta, BG&E, Primal, Heavenly Sword and so on. Wet, Primal, BG&E and Heavenly Sword are never going to get sequels. Mirror's Edge took years and tons of begging from fans and Bayonetta took another publisher stepping in to pick it up. Now you can say that there are other factors that played into why those games didn't sell well, but they all have two things in common. They're new IP's and they all have a female lead. That's not something that any studio head can or should ignore.

 

[autoduelist]

wat

How do you interpret that sentence?

At face value:

"so many questions were asked about the protagonist internally, that the company brought in a marketing team to do some focus testing."

Some were concerned a female lead would impact sales [most likely because of past history with games like Heavenly Sword and Beyond], so they brought in a focus testing company. That is normal. It's a huge, multi-million dollar project. They'd have done focus testing if it was a dude that had a thick accent.

Where you absolutely lose the rails is repeatedly assuming what the questions were and how they were asked and then getting upset that they asked 'loaded' questions. There is no evidence they asked loaded questions.

Again, the focus testing could simply have been questions like "Did you find the protagonist likable?" or "Did you enjoy playing as the protagonist?" There was no need to ask the ridiculously loaded questions that keep making you angry, nor any evidence that those types of ridiculously loaded questions were asked.

The questions that keep getting you riled up are all in your head, based on your own ridiculously biased reading of the sentence you quoted.

Sony probably didn't even design the questions themselves, anyway.

Actually, I don't see how what he's saying and what I read in that quote are different. At all.

Read his last few posts. He has positioned it as they asked loaded questions and is using that sentence to 'prove' it.

For example, post 1114
Where he claims the questions were loaded like "Do you have a problem that the main character is female?" and when I called him on it referred me to the 'literal' proof in the OP.

As for the exact quote of his we are talking about:
"This is a story where the dev team wanted a female character and internally executives argued with them saying that people wouldn't go for that. So they had to have focus groups specifically asking that question just to make those executives stfu and - lo and behold! - its not a problem at all."

The actual sentence says ""so many questions were asked about the protagonist internally, that the company brought in a marketing team to do some focus testing."

Those two sentences are very different. One is very basic and simply states there were people concerned about the gender of the protag and that they decided to do focus testing. The original sentence is a very sane, normal way of doing business -- some people brought up a perfectly justified issue [because if something can impact sales it's justified to ask it] and it got resolved. His is biased and misleading, especially in the context of everything else he is claiming.

 

[tfur]

It's okay to ask questions. It's okay to do analysis. It's okay to discuss what was done honestly. We should want then to discuss these topics.

Shu did the right thing at every step, and in the end it was approved.

It is really this simple.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

keep making you angry

getting you riled up

Why are you trying to play the "U MAD?" card?

The statement that because the main character is female therefore focus tests were commisioned specifically about that is self-explanatory.

I don't know what you're trying to argue or claim disingenuity over.
These weren't regular focus tests.
These were focus tests specifically about the gender of the main character.
They were instigated due to internal concerns about the gender of the main character.

 

[Steel]

Read his last few posts. He has positioned it as they asked loaded questions and is using that sentence to 'prove' it.

I read his last few posts before making mine. He used that sentence to prove that execs were pushing internally for the focus testing because they didn't think the gender of the protag would fly. He then uses that fact to say that it's possible, not certain, obviously, that because execs were the ones pushing for the focus testing with a preconceived outcome for it, that the questions might have been loaded. While there's no way to prove that, it's certainly possible, even likely given how companies deal with this sort of thing.

 

[spons]

Sony launched a better product but that is not thanks to Yoshida, about whom we are talking. That is about having good hardware at a good price point.
He is responsible for the first party studios, which do worse than before.

I like how some people blame Yoshida for this entire thing even though he didn't strike Guerrilla's plan down but instead researched it, gave it time, then approved. And if he is responsible for funding this project then he has the right to do so.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

This post delusional at best

He's mostly right though.

 

[StriKeVillain]

Thanks for such a thought out answer.



They could have moved to crossgen releases. Packing so many releases in a year for the PS3 exclusively with the PS4 launching didn't make sense, especially when some of them weren't even marketed.

I agree that they tried with the Vita in some regard but even then, Yoshida made horrible decisions. How in hell could he give Nihilistic (after Playstation Move Heroes) the Resistance IP? How did he not get Bend to work on something else for 2 years after their launch game but instead cowered before ND by not letting them use the Uncharted IP anymore.
How could he think it is a good idea to push out Modnation Racers and Unit 13 without online?

Where are all the other bigger Sony IPs like GoW or GT, of which the latter actually does have some platform selling power?

For the rest, see below.



Sony launched a better product but that is not thanks to Yoshida, about whom we are talking. That is about having good hardware at a good price point.
He is responsible for the first party studios, which do worse than before.

I know you're going to get ripped to shreds in a haven like this, but you make good points.

 

[autoduelist]

I don't know what you're trying to argue or claim disingenuity over.
These weren't regular focus tests.
These were focus tests specifically about the gender of the main character.
They were instigated due to internal concerns about the gender of the main character.

So what? Of course. We agree on that. And that's perfectly sane. My issue is when you add on to that and 'quote' the questions they must have asked, claiming they were loaded.

People brought up concerns about the gender of the protag.
Focus groups were brought in.

That's all we know. Everything above that -- the questions asked, if they were loaded, etc, are in your head.

It's a huge, expensive project. It would be bad business not to ensure the public resonated with the protagonist, regardless of gender. It's not surprising nor controversial that they'd make sure.

 

[autoduelist]

dp.

 

[spons]

So what? Of course. We agree on that. And that's perfectly sane. My issue is when you add on to that and 'quote' the questions they must have asked, claiming they were loaded.

Agree, but a focus test on the gender of a fictional character is loaded as heck. Not only is it borderline misogynistic because the original intend was Aloy to be female and these focus tests wouldn't exist in case of a male character, it's also catering to the lowest common denominator.

I don't expect otherwise though - video games are a mainstream medium and the goal is to sell as many copies as possible, that's the premise of a for-profit company. Also, Yoshida's job is on the line if he completely shits up. I very much believe he takes Guerrilla seriously and that's why we're seeing a female main character in the first place. He could have burned the project down, he didn't.