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Guild Wars 2 |OT5| We've got fun and games

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Fishious

Member
Rarely do people only have 1 character so.... Yes, it is a grind. And it seems an unnecessary grind, which is the sad thing.

Secondly, people have to make a choice. Either rush through the new content to full unlock elite spec or be without. To some people no big deal, to others who bought the expac solely for elite spec, well it sucks to be you.



Keep in mind that the only way to get all 40 hero points is possibly by running through the map aka burning through the content. This is a bad idea purely from that stand point. Far more people who would have taken their time will feel compelled to run through the new content just to get their elite spec.

Developers should not actively get player to run through their content especially MMOs since it punishes them in the long run.

As I said before, I'll wait until I've actually touched to content to decide if it's a grind. To some people getting a character to 80 in the first place could be a grind. Outfitting them with exotics could be a grind. I'd say it's a grind when it stops being fun, but if someone goes into something trying to rush through it as fast as possible to reach the end point and didn't enjoy it, that's on them.

Nowadays we have Tomes of Knowledge and daily login rewards and other things which make progression on alts much faster, but at launch it was largely doing the same content over and over. Maybe in a few months or a years they'll add easier progression methods for alts, but I can understand at launch they don't want people burning through everything like crazy.

I'd personally be fine if everything in the game were like sPvP where level doesn't matter and we already have everything unlocked, but there are a lot of people who are hooked by progression mechanics so I know Anet can't totally get rid of them.

As I mentioned a few posts back, I'm hoping the Maguuma hero challenges are gated behind event chains and world bosses. Better yet I hope they award the points via UI after doing the chain so people can't just waltz in afterwards and take it. Make people engage with the content, even if they try to skip over it.
 

Jira

Member
People, please stop using the word "grind" in place of doing ANYTHING in a video game. If you want to know what a grind really is, go play a korean mmo, or FFXI, or EQ99.
 

SourBear

Banned
Rarely do people only have 1 character so.... Yes, it is a grind. And it seems an unnecessary grind, which is the sad thing.

People who are saying this isn't a grind are also conveniently forgetting that the plan is to add more elite specs. into the game later on, either as content updates or as more expansions. If every elite spec. that gets added in is 400 HP to unlock than that will be a significant grind. Unless the intention is that you won't be able to unlock every elite spec. for a particular class.
 

Fishious

Member
People who are saying this isn't a grind are also conveniently forgetting that the plan is to add more elite specs. into the game later on, either as content updates or as more expansions. If every elite spec. that gets added in is 400 HP to unlock than that will be a significant grind. Unless the intention is that you won't be able to unlock every elite spec. for a particular class.

I suspect the answer is new elite specs will come either with the next expansion or a over a significant content update that's spread out over time (like drytop & silverwastes). Similar to how Maguuma hero challenges are worth 10 points, they'll probably add some new hero challenges to the new area and make them worth more. Like 400 / Total # of skill points in zone = How much Anet needs to make the new ones be worth.
 
Masteries are account bound, the Hero challenges locked behind masteries will be unlocked and it should be things easier, i suggest just playing with your main character and unlock the masteries, this will help with your alts..
 
Currently hero points are on a per character basis so unless things are different with the HoT hero points, you won't be able to do it.
So if I already have world map completion on 3 characters I'll have enough points to unlock half the elite spec for each of those 3 characters?
 

zanyu

Member
You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear that the new expansion is going to make it "easy" to earn the elite specializations. As a returning player, I am level 80 with only 30ish extra hero points. I honestly felt like if Anet forced me to do map completion to unlock it, I would have just not tried and use elites in PvP only.

And this isn't even a complaint, I enjoy the world content, but fuck if it forced me to do everything, I just wouldn't do it. It's not how I want to play the game. It would be asking all the WoW players to complete Loremaster to unlock demon hunter or some bullshit.

One of my biggest fears for this game though is I keep asking myself "Why should I do this content?"

I know it's two different philosophies between Blizzard and other standard mmos, but from what I've read and understood, your character is in no way getting "stronger" with the expansion. The elite specializations are just a new talent spec, the gear isn't getting better, there aren't new levels.

So I know it seems like a silly question, but am I really just playing to have fun and nothing to progress?
 

Hedge

Member
How many hero points did you get by going from 1-80?
Was wondering how fast I could potentially unlock Herald on my Rev.
 
I think I'm well up in the 300's with my Mesmer between WC and all the points per level up. Don't recall if we still get one per "level up" after 80 anymore but certainly did in the past. What's shitty about this is Revenants get hosed as you can't earn any HP early. I'm not going to bitch yet though because 1. My OCD ass will do all the things anyway but 2. If you get the traits and skills early in the line, who cares? We have to wait until we see how deep in training this stuff is before anyone can really complain. My only problem is I'm going out of town this weekend and going to the Monday Night Football game so no HoT for me until Tuesday night most likely. Doh! #firstworldproblems


On another note, progressing things nicely on building Ascended armor and sword by making sure to do all the time gated items each day. Holy sweet Jesus at how much Silk you need though haha I was tempted to just buy it all because what's more worth spending gold on than Ascended gear? All that'd be left is Legendary stuff and that can wait. Before resorting to this I tried a SW event farm and ended up with just over 250 scraps of Silk from last night alone... Maybe I won't have to break the bank after all! I doubt I'll get that much every day and will likely still spend a decent amount on it on the TP but it certainly helps. It feels weird to get annoyed with getting gossamer using a blue salvage kit ;P It's too bad I didn't start on this much sooner, then I wouldn't have to rush but I really want to get Ascended gear for the Raid. I know you won't HAVE to use it for at least the first wing or so but they sure made it sound like it behooves you to get it and would need it for the end portion. Plus, I don't want to be jelly of all the other people in my groups running around in it ;P
 

Fishious

Member
How many hero points did you get by going from 1-80?
Was wondering how fast I could potentially unlock Herald on my Rev.

Enough to unlock all your base skills and trait lines. Colin clarified you'd need everything unlocked to get the elite spec so you'd have to do 40 hero challenges in the Heart of Maguuma or some mix of new and old challenges and WvW or whatever.
 

Proven

Member
You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear that the new expansion is going to make it "easy" to earn the elite specializations. As a returning player, I am level 80 with only 30ish extra hero points. I honestly felt like if Anet forced me to do map completion to unlock it, I would have just not tried and use elites in PvP only.

And this isn't even a complaint, I enjoy the world content, but fuck if it forced me to do everything, I just wouldn't do it. It's not how I want to play the game. It would be asking all the WoW players to complete Loremaster to unlock demon hunter or some bullshit.

One of my biggest fears for this game though is I keep asking myself "Why should I do this content?"

I know it's two different philosophies between Blizzard and other standard mmos, but from what I've read and understood, your character is in no way getting "stronger" with the expansion. The elite specializations are just a new talent spec, the gear isn't getting better, there aren't new levels.

So I know it seems like a silly question, but am I really just playing to have fun and nothing to progress?

I... guess? If you discount new ways to move around and interact with the world like gliding and jump springs/mushrooms, and don't care for new talents, skills, and weapon types, then you aren't really going to get stronger, sorry.

The expansion does offer alternative methods to get the highest tier of gear, which as a returning player you likely don't have... But it won't make anything other than dungeons face roll easy.

Edit: If you're looking for new challenges and unlocking/earning ways to deal with them, there's that. It will be harder to complete and a number of the stuff you learn or unlock will make things easier, but through mechanics instead of numbers.
 

Ashodin

Member
I consider getting "stronger" relative to you the player not you the character. When you learn how to play better or different styles, that's getting stronger to me.
 
You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear that the new expansion is going to make it "easy" to earn the elite specializations. As a returning player, I am level 80 with only 30ish extra hero points. I honestly felt like if Anet forced me to do map completion to unlock it, I would have just not tried and use elites in PvP only.

And this isn't even a complaint, I enjoy the world content, but fuck if it forced me to do everything, I just wouldn't do it. It's not how I want to play the game. It would be asking all the WoW players to complete Loremaster to unlock demon hunter or some bullshit.

One of my biggest fears for this game though is I keep asking myself "Why should I do this content?"

I know it's two different philosophies between Blizzard and other standard mmos, but from what I've read and understood, your character is in no way getting "stronger" with the expansion. The elite specializations are just a new talent spec, the gear isn't getting better, there aren't new levels.

So I know it seems like a silly question, but am I really just playing to have fun and nothing to progress?

If you don't care about the story or mastery system, the elite specializations still offer a whole new way to play your character and the new content is supposed to be more difficult. You also have a Raid which will be the hardest content in the game and offer rewards towards building new Legendary Armor so that's something to work towards. You also likely don't have Ascended gear since you're returning (I'm in the same boat, working on it now) so that's something to work towards that will make you stronger as well.
 

Emitan

Member
The latest update in the thread from Colin mentions that there are enough Hero Challenges in Maguuma to get your elite spec even without any core Tyria ones. So getting the Tyria hero points gives you a head start, but seems to be more effort for less progress (assuming the Maguuma skill challenges aren't totally crazy).

Thank god. I don't want to be running around central Tyria when I have an expansion to explore.
 

Retro

Member
Can I snag a guild invite please. Should be more active when expansion goes live.

Clear.8512

Invite sent, sorry about the wait!

So I know it seems like a silly question, but am I really just playing to have fun and nothing to progress?

It depends on what you mean by "progress." If your character is in full Ascended Gear today, then your character will never progress statistically, even if you snag a set of Legendary Armor (which is only Legendary in appearance and its ability to swap stat distribution).

However, with the Mastery system, there's a "metroidvania"-esque system of progression where you're unlocking new ways to get around the jungle, like hang gliding, mushroom bouncing, etc. Some of the masteries are tied to combat, but there aren't any new skills or anything you're unlocking, you're just getting new options against specific foes like piercing through heavily armored foes or cleansing Chak acid with any healing skill.

So, you're playing for fun, but there's stuff you'll unlock via Masteries that lets you get into more places to have fun, much like leveling in the core game let you go into more zones.
 

Wallach

Member
I have 207 points left over on my Necromancer. I'm probably missing some in Dry Top and Silverwastes somewhere?

Edit - It looks like I could get 5 more between those two zones, which would put me at 212. Anyone know if that is the maximum possible right now?
 

Emitan

Member
Keep in mind that the only way to get all 40 hero points is possibly by running through the map aka burning through the content. This is a bad idea purely from that stand point. Far more people who would have taken their time will feel compelled to run through the new content just to get their elite spec.

Developers should not actively get player to run through their content especially MMOs since it punishes them in the long run.

So in order to not get players to rush through the game they should... just hand us the new elite specs? Some players are going to rush no matter what Arenanet does and I'm not sure what they can do about it besides adding in a ton of grind. I'd rather us have to still work to finish off the elite spec than them just hand it to us.
 

Taffer

Member
I have 207 points left over on my Necromancer. I'm probably missing some in Dry Top and Silverwastes somewhere?

Edit - It looks like I could get 5 more between those two zones, which would put me at 212. Anyone know if that is the maximum possible right now?

I'm at 213 with one missing in Dry Top.
 

Quenk

Member
I have 207 points left over on my Necromancer. I'm probably missing some in Dry Top and Silverwastes somewhere?

Edit - It looks like I could get 5 more between those two zones, which would put me at 212. Anyone know if that is the maximum possible right now?

According to the wiki, there's 398 from leveling and 213 hero points elsewhere (214 if you have a home instance node thing)
 

Wallach

Member
Thanks guys. I'm not sure if I missed one on the map in Silverwastes / Dry Top or if there is one other one I'm missing somewhere (which I'm not sure where would be really). Will check this evening.
 

Soulflarz

Banned
People, please stop using the word "grind" in place of doing ANYTHING in a video game. If you want to know what a grind really is, go play a korean mmo, or FFXI, or EQ99.

Er- it doesn't work like that.

Just because one game has it worse doesn't make the prior game not a grind.

I'm not going off at people for saying Habaneros are spicy just because I like ghost chilis which are way hotter.

The average person will still find certain things to be a slog or a grind regardless of Korean MMOs being filled with even more grinding.
 

Rawk Hawk

Member
Er- it doesn't work like that.

Just because one game has it worse doesn't make the prior game not a grind.

I'm not going off at people for saying Habaneros are spicy just because I like ghost chilis which are way hotter.

The average person will still find certain things to be a slog or a grind regardless of Korean MMOs being filled with even more grinding.

I think the word 'grind' has a generally negative connotation when it comes to games though. I don't think spicy in your analogy quite does it justice.

Grinding in games is considered bad by most people, spicy in food is not. It would be more like calling a Habaneros a melt your face spicy, which then could deter normal fans of food from eating it. Which is what the phrase "grind" could do to potential forum lurkers. Not to mention fans of grinding (or melt your face spicy foods) may decide to buy in, and then be disappointed.

In GW2, It's accurate that you have to do stuff, to get stuff, just to a much lesser degree than most other MMO's. I personally think labeling it 'grindy' is inaccurate.
 

Ashodin

Member
What Jira and I have seen too often is people labeling grinds on things that are not necessarily grinds. True grinds are things that are absolutely not fun and feel like a chore.
 

zanyu

Member
It depends on what you mean by "progress." If your character is in full Ascended Gear today, then your character will never progress statistically, even if you snag a set of Legendary Armor (which is only Legendary in appearance and its ability to swap stat distribution).

However, with the Mastery system, there's a "metroidvania"-esque system of progression where you're unlocking new ways to get around the jungle, like hang gliding, mushroom bouncing, etc. Some of the masteries are tied to combat, but there aren't any new skills or anything you're unlocking, you're just getting new options against specific foes like piercing through heavily armored foes or cleansing Chak acid with any healing skill.

So, you're playing for fun, but there's stuff you'll unlock via Masteries that lets you get into more places to have fun, much like leveling in the core game let you go into more zones.

Oh hey I think it's an interesting take on progression for a MMO. I guess part of me feel like such a fun game like GW2 will never reach it's full potential without a carrot on a stick incentive.

I know one of the biggest reasons I quit the game was that I did most of the content, and no matter what I did, I didn't feel like I was getting better loot/gear.

I will admit though, WvW gave me such an epic battle feeling reminding me of the old alterac valley. I am excited to do more WvW in the expansion.
 

usea

Member
What Jira and I have seen too often is people labeling grinds on things that are not necessarily grinds. True grinds are things that are absolutely not fun and feel like a chore.
Sounds like no true Scotsman. Personally I think GW2 is a pretty grindy game. In all video games ever it's almost certainly in the top 1% of grindy games.

Sure there are games with more of a grind. Doesn't matter.
 

Spyware

Member
If you had to clear the same challenge over and over to get your hero points I would consider it a grind. Exploring the world, clearing different challenges and playing the game isn't.
I will do it on lots and lots of characters and it will be lots of repetition, but since it isn't the exact same and not the only content I can play, I can't consider it a grind.

Edit: I really can't see how GW2 can be considered grindy at all. There's just way too much different stuff to do.
 

Fishious

Member
Er- it doesn't work like that.

Just because one game has it worse doesn't make the prior game not a grind.

I'm not going off at people for saying Habaneros are spicy just because I like ghost chilis which are way hotter.

The average person will still find certain things to be a slog or a grind regardless of Korean MMOs being filled with even more grinding.

I'll agree with that. MMOs by and large (even GW2) are IMO more grindy than most single player games. Korean MMOs are just more prone of falling into the special circle of hell category than most others. Although many non-MMOs are starting to catch up with the addition of RPG elements into other genres. And everything from here on isn't necessarily in response to you, but just a general rant.

The problem is grind isn't an objective unit of measurement. Different people will call very different things grindy. It's annoying to me seeing the word overused like it is, but I've started mentally substituting in "isn't fun" every time I see the word and it makes more sense. Everyone's threshold for what is considered a grind will be different based on how fun they find the gameplay and how many times it has to be repeated. I've seen people say reaching 80 in GW2 is a grind when I reached it without even trying.

I think part of the issue we're seeing here with the reaction to this news is people misunderstanding the game's core principals or "promises" various game devs have made. Guild Wars 2 isn't a game without grinding. There are levels and unlocks and progression mechanisms so at least 1 person will consider any level of those to be a grind. However it usually offers several avenues to reach most objectives so a wider set of playstyles is valid. Some people have mistaken this to mean "absolutely any way I want to play should be equally valid, give access to all the same content, and reward equally". That is obviously not the case and has never been the case. And to clarify, I'm not claiming this is what anyone in this thread are saying (moreso just a couple in that thread on the official forums).

My point is people shouldn't be surprised to find that there are progression mechanics attached to elite specs. The degree required can be argued, but until we know what content they are connected to its probably best to wait. I agree things will get really boring (even the first time around) if the hero challenges are just channel points sitting on the side of the road. Given everything I've seen in the beta though (I'm talking more about the way content was delivered since there weren't any visible) it should be fun for at least 1 go around. It may be fun for several. Probably not for 20+ times, but hopefully eventually we'll see other progression options once the opening rush is over. I personally think if they could let us unlock it once per class that would be fantastic.
 

Rawk Hawk

Member
Some Action Camera stuff: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-action-camera/

Joel Helmich said:
Hey, everyone! My name is Joel Helmich, and I’m excited to talk to you today about the action camera, a feature that will be shipping with Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™. Action camera is a mode you can enter in which mouse look is always on, and skills aim at a crosshair in the center of the screen, much like in a shooter or similar type of game. However, there are a lot of parts that come together to make the overall experience work. Read on to find out more!

Lights, Camera, Action!

Action camera draws on influences from shooters, single-player RPGs, and even some other MMOs. Guild Wars 2 is an action game, and to that end should make the player feel like they’re in complete control of their character rather than an outside observer issuing orders. In order to achieve this effect, it’s important to be able to turn the camera toward the objects that you want to look at, move toward, and interact with. Previously, players in Guild Wars 2 have gotten along by holding down the right mouse button constantly during gameplay to keep the game in mouse-look mode. With action-camera mode, this will no longer be necessary; so long as the mode is active, mouse look is always on, and you will only need to move the mouse in order to look around.
Action-camera mode can be switched on and off as necessary by using the Toggle Action Camera keybinding. It will also automatically turn off while you’re viewing dialogue, menus, or panels.

Take Aim

All targeting while in action-camera mode is based around the crosshair. Autotargeting will choose targets that are underneath the crosshair, while ground-targeted skills and skills fired with no target will aim precisely at the crosshair.
The crosshair has four states to give you immediate feedback about what your skills will do when used:
  • The default state, in which skills will fire at the crosshair.
  • The target under the crosshair is a valid target, but is out of range. Skills will still fire at the crosshair.
  • The active target is within range of something on your skill bar, and skills will fire at the target.
  • The active target is within range of skill 1, and skills will fire at the target.
In addition to relying on autotargeting, you can also explicitly lock targets. Unlike the default control scheme, you will still need to mostly aim at locked targets in order to use skills on them. However, target selection for locked targets is more generous than for autotargets, making it possible to lock a high-priority target in a group and stay focused on it. To lock a target, you can use the next, previous, and closest target selection keys as usual. Additionally, the right mouse button, which is not used for mouse look while in action-camera mode, serves to lock the target under your crosshair or clear your target if you’re aiming at empty ground.
Playing with autotargeting enabled is the intended way to use action-camera mode, but you certainly don’t have to! Melee attacks will strike the area in front of you, and projectile attacks will aim right at the crosshair, so if you prefer, you can take aiming completely into your own hands. Just be sure to remember that certain skills require a target to function, so you’ll need to lock targets when using them.

I Swing a Sword Again

It’s common in shooters and action games to associate a basic attack with the left mouse button since it’s something that players will be using frequently. Fortunately, with the left mouse button no longer activating free-camera mouse look, action-camera mode can do the same. Left-clicking will now fire skill 1, and holding down the left mouse button will cause the skill to fire continuously. If you don’t want to left-click, you can also continue using your regular keybinding for skill 1. Also note that the continuous-fire behavior will work even if skill 1 is a ground-targeted skill, so long as you use instant ground targeting—you’re welcome, engineer players.

Stay on Target

Ground-targeted skills will aim at the crosshair while in action-camera mode. However, this can be a bit inconvenient when you’re in combat with an enemy. You might prefer to aim at their body when using normal skills, but you will still need to aim at their feet for ground-targeted skills.
To help deal with this, a new option, “Snap Ground Target to Current Target,” has been added. When enabled, the ground target marker will be placed at your active target’s position rather than exactly under the crosshair. This should make it easier to cast ground-targeted skills where you want them without needing to constantly adjust your aim. However, enemies can move, and sometimes you may need to lead your target rather than fire your skills right at their feet. A keybinding has also been added that toggles this snapping behavior when held down so that you can access regular ground targeting when you need it. This feature works with or without action-camera mode enabled.

Active Adaptation

Currently in Guild Wars 2, skills that attack many times are stuck firing at the same target for their full duration. Additionally, some skills will do nothing when activated without a target, causing them to be wasted. These issues became especially apparent with action camera, where the expectation is that skills should always fire at whatever is under your crosshair.
Accordingly, another supporting feature is being added, “Allow Skill Retargeting.” When enabled, this option allows you to change the target of a skill prior to any of its attacks. For example, this could be used to sweep a skill with many attacks across multiple targets, or you could use it to start a skill before you have a target acquired. It’s also useful for picking up a new target if your current target dies, allowing you to still make every attack in your skill count. As with snap ground targeting, this feature was developed with action-camera mode in mind, but it works whether or not action camera is enabled.
And that’s a quick overview of the new action-camera mode, snap ground targeting, and skill retargeting. You can check out our Guild Chat recording for more information on what this feature will bring to the game!

I can just imagine what PvP will look like with everyone trying out new camera modes.. I fully expect to die a lot while figuring this out.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
To help deal with this, a new option, “Snap Ground Target to Current Target,” has been added. When enabled, the ground target marker will be placed at your active target’s position rather than exactly under the crosshair. This should make it easier to cast ground-targeted skills where you want them without needing to constantly adjust your aim. However, enemies can move, and sometimes you may need to lead your target rather than fire your skills right at their feet. A keybinding has also been added that toggles this snapping behavior when held down so that you can access regular ground targeting when you need it. This feature works with or without action-camera mode enabled.

Time to make my grenade Engineer my main? Maaaaaybe.
 

Spyware

Member
I think the problem is that the term "grind" or "grindy" is subjective.
Yeah. I just feel like it has become the new "epic". It's used for everything and lost meaning. As Fishious said it's more "not fun" now than "endless repetition of menial tasks". I'd consider killing the same enemy over and over a grind. I wouldn't call playing the whole event chain in SW over and over a grind. It's more like "farming". "Grind" for me has to be extremely braindead and repetitive, it's automatically a really negative thing. Something can be "a bit repetitive" and still not a true grind in my opinion.
 

Zeroth

Member
Sounds like no true Scotsman. Personally I think GW2 is a pretty grindy game. In all video games ever it's almost certainly in the top 1% of grindy games.

Sure there are games with more of a grind. Doesn't matter.

Honestly, many people consider GW2 non-grindy. Of course there ARE grinds (skin grinds mostly), but those are entirely optional. Can you elaborate on why you think it has such honor of being a top 1% grindy game?
 

usea

Member
Honestly, many people consider GW2 non-grindy. Of course there ARE grinds (skin grinds mostly), but those are entirely optional. Can you elaborate on why you think it has such honor of being a top 1% grindy game?
Everything is optional. Playing the game at all is optional. Something being optional doesn't exclude it from being grindy.

The reason I think it's in the top 1% of grindy games is because It's an MMO. There are probably millions of video games out there, and only a tiny fraction of those are MMOs. Therefore pretty much any game in this style would be in the top 1%. I mean obviously I'm basing this on numbers pulled from my ass, but I think it's pretty reasonable.

It's okay for people to call GW2 grindy or view it that way. Even if it has a negative connotation. It's okay for a game to have parts some people don't think are the bee's knees. I definitely don't enjoy opening chests for hours upon hours in silverwastes. I watch netflix or twitch while half-paying attention. Many other people do the same thing. That's just one example. To say that's not grindy seems pretty out of touch to me.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
Sounds like no true Scotsman. Personally I think GW2 is a pretty grindy game. In all video games ever it's almost certainly in the top 1% of grindy games.

Sure there are games with more of a grind. Doesn't matter.

We're talking games in general and not just MMOs, right?

Because that's kind of what MMOs do - stretch out content through repetition. Have players complete the same exact tasks over and over with the promise that eventually a reward will be had.

In the realm of being grindy, yeah, GW2 along with other MMOs, and a certain style of RPG (Disgaea, etc), are in the 1% among other games as having the title of being grindy. But in the genre of MMOs, GW2's grind is tiny in comparison.

Edit:
The reason I think it's in the top 1% of grindy games is because It's an MMO.

Haha, gotcha.
 

Fishious

Member
Everything is optional. Playing the game at all is optional. Something being optional doesn't exclude it from being grindy.

The reason I think it's in the top 1% of grindy games is because It's an MMO. There are probably millions of video games out there, and only a tiny fraction of those are MMOs. Therefore pretty much any game in this style would be in the top 1%. I mean obviously I'm basing this on numbers pulled from my ass, but I think it's pretty reasonable.

It's okay for people to call GW2 grindy or view it that way. Even if it has a negative connotation. It's okay for a game to have parts some people don't think are the bee's knees. I definitely don't enjoy opening chests for hours upon hours in silverwastes. I watch netflix or twitch while half-paying attention. Many other people do the same thing. That's just one example. To say that's not grindy seems pretty out of touch to me.

Yeah. While Guild Wars 2 is on the lower end of grindiness for MMOs and much of its grind is relegated to optional areas, it is more grindy than the majority of video games. Not sure I'd say it's in the top 1% due to the rise of mobile games in the style of Puzzle and Dragons (a few of which I play) and it boggles my mind just how many games in the same vein and how many outright clones exist. So I'd knock it down to top 5% using numbers I pulled out of my ass.
 

Zeroth

Member
The reason I think it's in the top 1% of grindy games is because It's an MMO. There are probably millions of video games out there, and only a tiny fraction of those are MMOs. Therefore pretty much any game in this style would be in the top 1%. I mean obviously I'm basing this on numbers pulled from my ass, but I think it's pretty reasonable.

That's fair, like Kanik pointed, MMOs use grind techniques by default. But even then, when you consider the genre, I think it's safe to say that GW2 is very successful in making these grinds up to you, and not part of the game experience itself, which is my original point.
 

Mxrz

Member
The elite spec system seems okay after giving it some thought. I'm not in much a hurry with the PvE content. But isn't this what some people were asking for? More meaningful PvE progression/end game? That Woodenpotatos guy had a video I really disagreed with wanting masteres/specs to take a considerable amount of time, well there it is.

I'll work on some now, the rest next year. Probably be a long while before any new specs are introduced. Only real change is I won't be getting Herald for a while. Which is probably a good thing since it overshadows Jalis and Mallyx.

Not sure I agree about GW2 being grindy even as a mmo vs everything. I can create a character and jump into a pvp match in about the same time it takes to load sff4 and find an online match. Too many different ways to count it.
 
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