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[cruise]

Those deals are never done with cash payments, the most likely "payment" was MS-paid marketing & lower licensing fees, maybe instead of 30% it's 10% (that percentage is just an example, we don't know the exact percentage), the lower licensing fees could possibly apply to all SE-published titles within a certain window, not necessarily just TR.

Hmmm... Well, I doubt MS is in any position to be charging royalties anyway, given the state of their hardware sales on a worldwide scale relative to their competition. They'd probably be on the verge of getting abandoned hard by third parties like Nintendo did/has... which is why it's quite the mystery to me how Sony wasn't killed off during PS3's cycle. I'm guessing Sony was suspending royalty fees carte blanche just to keep third party support in those days, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Microsoft is having to do these days.

So yeah, I think actual, real, hard, fiat currency is being used to secure these deals, maybe even with stock/shares to sweeten the pot. Shit, I know if I were a developer/publisher and Microsoft wanted to pay me with stock, I'd make Call of goddamn Duty exclusive to them, for the right amount. Turn my ass into an investment banker overnight.

Like, I'm honestly just surprised why Microsoft isn't buying off all the third parties right now? They have tons of stock. Why stop at tomb raider? Cuz of consumer backlash? Nah. Consumers don't know what they want unless you tell them. That's why you keep purveyors of echo chambers like Kyle orland or whatever around.

 

[allan-bh]

Hmmm... Well, I doubt MS is in any position to be charging royalties anyway, given the state of their hardware sales on a worldwide scale relative to their competition. They'd probably be on the verge of getting abandoned hard by third parties like Nintendo did/has... which is why it's quite the mystery to me how Sony wasn't killed off during PS3's cycle. I'm guessing Sony was suspending royalty fees carte blanche just to keep third party support in those days, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Microsoft is having to do these days.

So yeah, I think actual, real, hard, fiat currency is being used to secure these deals, maybe even with stock/shares to sweeten the pot. Shit, I know if I were a developer/publisher and Microsoft wanted to pay me with stock, I'd make Call of goddamn Duty exclusive to them, for the right amount. Turn my ass into an investment banker overnight.

Like, I'm honestly just surprised why Microsoft isn't buying off all the third parties right now? They have tons of stock. Why stop at tomb raider? Cuz of consumer backlash? Nah. Consumers don't know what they want unless you tell them. That's why you keep purveyors of echo chambers like Kyle orland or whatever around.

No way, Xbox One is a healthy platform for several third-parties games, not as much as PS4 but miles away of being abandoned. Same thing with PS3, was a good platform for selling games. And of course Microsoft is charging royalties, there's no point in continue in this business without that.

About buying exclusives, MS has a lot money but this doesn't mean they will keep spending huge amounts and in Xbox One situation these deals become more expensive. The main point is being profitable.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Hmmm... Well, I doubt MS is in any position to be charging royalties anyway, given the state of their hardware sales on a worldwide scale relative to their competition. They'd probably be on the verge of getting abandoned hard by third parties like Nintendo did/has... which is why it's quite the mystery to me how Sony wasn't killed off during PS3's cycle. I'm guessing Sony was suspending royalty fees carte blanche just to keep third party support in those days, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Microsoft is having to do these days.

So yeah, I think actual, real, hard, fiat currency is being used to secure these deals, maybe even with stock/shares to sweeten the pot. Shit, I know if I were a developer/publisher and Microsoft wanted to pay me with stock, I'd make Call of goddamn Duty exclusive to them, for the right amount. Turn my ass into an investment banker overnight.

Like, I'm honestly just surprised why Microsoft isn't buying off all the third parties right now? They have tons of stock. Why stop at tomb raider? Cuz of consumer backlash? Nah. Consumers don't know what they want unless you tell them. That's why you keep purveyors of echo chambers like Kyle orland or whatever around.

Rolling my eyes.

 

[kyser73]

You have a point, but it never works like that, MS tried that with JRPGs last gen and it didn't work, Tomb Raider fans don't exist in a vacuum, the action adventure genre is more associated with Playstation, and TR is just one game in that genre, MS needs more than one game to convert that audience. It's even more complicated than that considering the franchise is big in Sony's territory rather than MS's.

It's the same reason Destiny continues to sell better on XB1 (non-bundles) despite the heavy marketing campaign by Sony.

Really? Can you show us where Activision have released a platform split or numbers to back this up?

 

[allan-bh]

Really? Can you show us where Activision have released a platform split or numbers to back this up?

He's talking about NPD. We don't know the situation worldwide but probably PS4 standalone version sold more because of the big gap in install base.

 

[Aroll]

Hmmm... Well, I doubt MS is in any position to be charging royalties anyway, given the state of their hardware sales on a worldwide scale relative to their competition. They'd probably be on the verge of getting abandoned hard by third parties like Nintendo did/has... which is why it's quite the mystery to me how Sony wasn't killed off during PS3's cycle. I'm guessing Sony was suspending royalty fees carte blanche just to keep third party support in those days, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Microsoft is having to do these days.

So yeah, I think actual, real, hard, fiat currency is being used to secure these deals, maybe even with stock/shares to sweeten the pot. Shit, I know if I were a developer/publisher and Microsoft wanted to pay me with stock, I'd make Call of goddamn Duty exclusive to them, for the right amount. Turn my ass into an investment banker overnight.

Like, I'm honestly just surprised why Microsoft isn't buying off all the third parties right now? They have tons of stock. Why stop at tomb raider? Cuz of consumer backlash? Nah. Consumers don't know what they want unless you tell them. That's why you keep purveyors of echo chambers like Kyle orland or whatever around.

The Xbox One is relatively healthy in the only market it really puts 100% effort into. Sony didn't cut royalty fees on the PS3 (aka, toss them out the window), nor is Microsoft doing it. That's silly - t They might as well just say "screw it, we don't want to make any money" then. Of course they do. Nintendo never lost 3rd party support because of royalty fees.

There were many factors that went into Nintendo losing 3rd party support - but everyone charges royalty fees. That's how these companies make so much money off hardware. It's not the profit margins on the actual hardware, it's the fees they make from the games that sell on them. It's why Nintendo INSISTS on staying in the hardware market, because the money they make off 3rd party game son their systems is really high margins - something they lose without hardware. That' saying something, but they have 3rd party games that sell okay still on their platforms. Just not the big guns.

I don't really know why people think the xbox one is doing so terribly. The PS4 is on a torrid sales pace, yes, but that doesn't mean the Xbox One is doing nothing. It may not hit 80 million like the 360, but it's on it's way to north of 50 million and I'd call that a pretty solid generation.

 

[GravityInsanity]

Well, October NPD has closed so that means preseason is over. The World Series begins now.

 

[Chris1]

Hmmm... Well, I doubt MS is in any position to be charging royalties anyway, given the state of their hardware sales on a worldwide scale relative to their competition. They'd probably be on the verge of getting abandoned hard by third parties like Nintendo did/has... which is why it's quite the mystery to me how Sony wasn't killed off during PS3's cycle. I'm guessing Sony was suspending royalty fees carte blanche just to keep third party support in those days, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Microsoft is having to do these days.

So yeah, I think actual, real, hard, fiat currency is being used to secure these deals, maybe even with stock/shares to sweeten the pot. Shit, I know if I were a developer/publisher and Microsoft wanted to pay me with stock, I'd make Call of goddamn Duty exclusive to them, for the right amount. Turn my ass into an investment banker overnight.

Like, I'm honestly just surprised why Microsoft isn't buying off all the third parties right now? They have tons of stock. Why stop at tomb raider? Cuz of consumer backlash? Nah. Consumers don't know what they want unless you tell them. That's why you keep purveyors of echo chambers like Kyle orland or whatever around.

Is this a meme or something? You can't be serious.

Publishers aren't going to give up a potential 15-20 million sales (or however many consoles have been sold now) just because MS is doing what every other company with a console is doing.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

There's no reason for a third party to shack up with Microsoft unless they feel like their game was going to be a financial bomb anyway and they use MS to pick up the slack. I remember when Tomb Raider 2013 came out and it was considered a failure by Square Enix since it didn't make enough money to pay for development and marketing at launch. It wasn't until it went on discount and good word of mouth got sales rolling there that they actually made money off Tomb Raider. Perhaps that's why they teamed up with MS now.

 

[cruise]

Is this a meme or something? You can't be serious.

Publishers aren't going to give up a potential 15-20 million sales (or however many consoles have been sold now) just because MS is doing what every other company with a console is doing.

Oh, I see... Well, those guys at square enix are in for a world of disappointment when tomb raider fails to hit those 15-20 million sales "potential"

And you're calling me the meme? Yeah ok.

 

[Chris1]

Oh, I see... Well, those guys at square enix are in for a world of disappointment when tomb raider fails to hit those 15-20 million sales "potential"

And you're calling me the meme? Yeah ok.

Uhh yeah, that's kinda what potential means. Obviously they're not going to expect a 100% attach rate, not even GTA or Minecraft gets that, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there's 15-20 million xbox ones out there that may be a customer.

Even if they only sell to 5% of those xbox ones that's still a good number and nothing to scoff at, the additional work to get it on xbox one in addition to PC and PS4 would easily be covered. With programs like games with gold and such it almost makes no sense not to port it over anyways to be honest, even if it flops all they have to do is put it on games with gold and gain a few million and I can't imagine a port job when all the assets would have already have been already made for PS4/PC costing that much.

I know TR isn't really a port job but the game was being made regardless of the exclusivity deal, the additional $ spent to make it run on an xbox one is surely tiny compared to what they will make back.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Bloodborne did 1 mil in around 14 days, right?

I rememb 1.1 million in 9 days.

 

[Asd202]

He's talking about NPD. We don't know the situation worldwide but probably PS4 standalone version sold more because of the big gap in install base.

Another thing to consider is that NPD only tracks retail and Destiny TTK lunch coincided with the biggest month in PSN history. Coincidence? I think not .

 

[SMOK3Y]

Uhh yeah, that's kinda what potential means. Obviously they're not going to expect a 100% attach rate, not even GTA or Minecraft gets that, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there's 15-20 million xbox ones out there that may be a customer.

Even if they only sell to 5% of those xbox ones that's still a good number and nothing to scoff at, the additional work to get it on xbox one in addition to PC and PS4 would easily be covered. With programs like games with gold and such it almost makes no sense not to port it over anyways to be honest, even if it flops all they have to do is put it on games with gold and gain a few million and I can't imagine a port job when all the assets would have already have been already made for PS4/PC costing that much.

I know TR isn't really a port job but the game was being made regardless of the exclusivity deal, the additional $ spent to make it run on an xbox one is surely tiny compared to what they will make back.

Really?

 

[Chobel]

I think XBO is at 15m sold through now. 20m is out of question though.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

By end of September 2015, XB1 sales are most likely under 15 million, but i'm sure is over 15 million shipped.

Now ( 1 November ) i'm 100% sure the are more than 15 million XB1 sold... no idea about shipments, but will probabily be over 20 million by end of this year.

 

[SmartWaffles]

By end of September 2015, XB1 sales are most likely under 15 million, but i'm sure is over 15 million shipped.

Now ( 1 November ) i'm 100% sure the are more than 15 million XB1 sold... no idea about shipments, but will probabily be over 20 million by end of this year.

20m sounds like a bit far stretched, 18 million should be a realistic number imo.

 

[cebri.one]

Amazon 10/31

Best Sellers in Video Games

4. Halo 5: Guardians

15. PlayStation 4 500GB Uncharted

16. PlayStation 4 1TB COD

23. PlayStation 4 500GB SW Bundle (presale)

33. Xbox One 1TB Console Halo

I think is quite safe to say that PS4 will lead in sales, and Halo will be the best selling title of the month.

 

[Fat4all]

I think XBO is at 15m sold through now. 20m is out of question though.

I doubt they've hit 15 mil sold through.

 

[Javin98]

I think XBO is at 15m sold through now. 20m is out of question though.

Just like Fat4all said, I really doubt they hit 15 million sold through as of today. I think it is slightly short, maybe closer to 14.75 million.

 

[Fat4all]

Just like Fat4all said, I really doubt they hit 15 million sold through as of today. I think it is slightly short, maybe closer to 14.75 million.

It'd be a lot easier to pinpoint if MS would talk numbers :/

 

[Purest 78]

I think XBO is at 15m sold through now. 20m is out of question though.

Ps4 has sold 9 million in The US That would make X1 a little over 8 million. So I ask where are the other 7 million X1 sales coming from? Outside The UK and US x1 sales are extremely low. I see people throwing out x1 numbers, but can't seem to tell where the numbers are from.

 

[Javin98]

It'd be a lot easier to pinpoint if MS would talk numbers :/

Yep, the best we can do is estimate. My personal estimations put the shipment numbers at 15.2 million by the end of September and I think it's reasonable to estimate the sold through numbers to be around 14 million at that time. Assuming a rather generous figure of 450K for October in the US, the WW figures would be around 750K, with the US contributing around 60% for October. This is how I got 14.75 million sold through for the XB1 anyway.

 

[cruise]

Uhh yeah, that's kinda what potential means. Obviously they're not going to expect a 100% attach rate, not even GTA or Minecraft gets that, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there's 15-20 million xbox ones out there that may be a customer.

Even if they only sell to 5% of those xbox ones that's still a good number and nothing to scoff at, the additional work to get it on xbox one in addition to PC and PS4 would easily be covered. With programs like games with gold and such it almost makes no sense not to port it over anyways to be honest, even if it flops all they have to do is put it on games with gold and gain a few million and I can't imagine a port job when all the assets would have already have been already made for PS4/PC costing that much.

I know TR isn't really a port job but the game was being made regardless of the exclusivity deal, the additional $ spent to make it run on an xbox one is surely tiny compared to what they will make back.

Ok, well, you can keep moving the goalposts all you like, but guess what, Square Enix is still in "potential" for a world of butthurt, because it's going to be an uphill battle for RoTR to get even a 5% attach rate on a system that it's EXCLUSIVE to... all their other standard PS4/PC ports don't even come into the equation for God knows how long, now that they've obviously made a deal with the devil who doesn't even give a shit about marketing their game because "Bethesda".

But wait a second, did you really just say that they should be HONORED to give the game away for free on games with gold? Like, third parties should port their games just to have the distinction of "gaining a few million" by shilling their wares for FREE? You must be having a laugh.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

20m sounds like a bit far stretched, 18 million should be a realistic number imo.

I see 18.5m Sold and 20m shipped.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Amazon 10/31

Best Sellers in Video Games



I think is quite safe to say that PS4 will lead in sales, and Halo will be the best selling title of the month.

Why not use the numbers for the whole of October?

3. Halo 5
14. Halo 5 limited edition
23. Uncharted PS4 Bundle
24. Halo 5 Xbox Bundle
40. Last of Us PS4 Bundle
48. Destiny PS4 Bundle
94. Gears of War Xbox Bundle

I mean it still paints pretty much the same picture, but I don't see why you would use the numbers from one day.
Also NPD's October ends on the 31st, so the CoD bundle numbers won't mean anything until November and the Star Wars bundle numbers are also pointless for October.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

Ps4 has sold 9 million in The US That would make X1 a little over 8 million. So I ask where are the other 7 million X1 sales coming from? Outside The UK and US x1 sales are extremely low. I see people throwing out x1 numbers, but can't seem to tell where the numbers are from.

Hmmm...there's definitely some discrepancy here.

 

[cebri.one]

Why not use the numbers for the whole of October?

3. Halo 5
14. Halo 5 limited edition
23. Uncharted PS4 Bundle
24. Halo 5 Xbox Bundle
40. Last of Us PS4 Bundle
48. Destiny PS4 Bundle
94. Gears of War Xbox Bundle

I mean it still paints pretty much the same picture, but I don't see why you would use the numbers from one day.
Also NPD's October ends on the 31st, so the CoD bundle numbers won't mean anything until November and the Star Wars bundle numbers are also pointless for October.

I did not know you can consult monthly data on Amazon. Can you post the link plz?

 

[Loris146]

I did not know you can consult monthly data on Amazon. Can you post the link plz?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2015-10/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsar

 

[samar11]

I see 18.5m Sold and 20m shipped.

You see ? You realise xbox is dead outside of USA/UK. MS are not even sharing their number any more so I am curious what you are seeing

 

[cebri.one]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2015-10/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsar

Nice, thanks. Very tight.

 

[Aceofspades]

I see 18.5m Sold and 20m shipped.

So you are saying that X1 sold 10m outside USA? I don't think so at all

Edit: you meant by the end of the year, I see.

 

[yukianderson]

Ps4 has sold 9 million in The US That would make X1 a little over 8 million. So I ask where are the other 7 million X1 sales coming from? Outside The UK and US x1 sales are extremely low. I see people throwing out x1 numbers, but can't seem to tell where the numbers are from.

The little more than 8 million in the US counts probably counts for 60% or more of there market. They are probably close to two million in the UK. That means those two are a little more than 10 million. This is why I don't understand where does the 15 or 18 millions sold comes from. The US and UK are the biggest market for the Xbox one. Like you said everyone else says have been extremely low. I think the sales are probably closer to in between 12 and 13 million actually sold to customers. 15 million sold to customers by the end on the year is probable and 18 millionis probably ship by the end of the year.

 

[cruise]

Damn yo, that Halo 5 bundle really did surprisingly well though, especially at that price point. I'm kind of amazed.

What a brand.

PS4 gonna need three different bundles to overcome the sales of a single $500 bundle.

 

[Javin98]

You see ? You realise xbox is dead outside of USA/UK. MS are not even sharing their number any more so I am curious what you are seeing

He's referring to the end of 2015. 18.5 million sold through is a reasonable estimation. Right now, I think the XB1 will fall slightly short of that but this all really depends on whether the bundles announced can compete with the best PS4 bundles.

 

[Chobel]

Why I think XBO is >15m:

At the end of September MS should have shipped more than 15m (probably even more than 15.5m). One month after that, MS probably has sold most of that stock especially since they released their biggest game Halo 5 in that period. Add to that Halo 5 LE bundle sales (I could see that doing 400K-500K WW easily), and 15m seems even more likely.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Damn yo, that Halo 5 bundle really did surprisingly well though, especially at that price point. I'm kind of amazed.

What a brand.

PS4 gonna need three different bundles to overcome the sales of a single $500 bundle.

Huh?
23. Uncharted PS4 Bundle
24. Halo 5 Xbox Bundle

 

[harrisk954]

I really hope they're going to release some actual numbers and not some BS like how many headshots or combined hours played stats.

Good luck with that! Unless it hits record numbers, we are not going to hear any specifics from MS.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Good luck with that! Unless it Sikhs record numbers, we are not going to hear any specifics from MS.

It likely broke records for an Xbox One exclusive, so we might hear something.

 

[g0dofwar]

Damn yo, that Halo 5 bundle really did surprisingly well though, especially at that price point. I'm kind of amazed.

What a brand.

PS4 gonna need three different bundles to overcome the sales of a single $500 bundle.

Both CoD and Battlefront will kill Halo in sales.

 

[Purest 78]

The little more than 8 million in the US counts probably counts for 60% or more of there market. They are probably close to two million in the UK. That means those two are a little more than 10 million. This is why I don't understand where does the 15 or 18 millions sold comes from. The US and UK are the biggest market for the Xbox one. Like you said everyone else says have been extremely low. I think the sales are probably closer to in between 12 and 13 million actually sold to customers. 15 million sold to customers by the end on the year is probable and 18 millionis probably ship by the end of the year.

Until someone can show where these other numbers are coming from, it's extremely wishful thinking imo.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Don't jump the gun just yet, donny, there is still one more update for the monthly charts.


Care to list these "months", then? The only month out of 22 months so far since the launch of the consoles that would fit your description would be April 2015. Even then, there were two XB1 SKU's pretty close to the leading PS4 SKU, with one being just one spot behind. Which is, you know, pretty similar to this month, except we have two PS4 SKU's being quite close to the Halo 5 bundle.

Actually this month we have 3 PS4 SKU's next to XB1 compared to 2 XB1 SKU's in April.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

A 1 position PS4 victory in Amazon rankings in October means an XB1 victory in Amazon considering the Halo bundle's August pre-sales. And what that really means is that whichever one wins, Amazon will still come out as the "golden predictor" for rankings. It'll just be spun different ways. (~_^)

"PS4 beat XB1 in October rankings, so that shows Amazon was right again!"
"XB1 beat PS4 when you add in August presales, so that shows Amazon was right again!"

One more update (which will obviously push the NDC even higher above the Halo Bundle) + TLoU Bundle + Destiny Bundle > Halo Bundle pre orders from previous months + Halo Bundle positioning for October.

 

[N.Domixis]

One more update (which will obviously push the NDC even higher above the Halo Bundle) + TLoU Bundle + Destiny Bundle > Halo Bundle pre orders from previous months + Halo Bundle positioning for October.

How do we actually know there is one more update.

 

[Javin98]

Why I think XBO is >15m:

At the end of September MS should have shipped more than 15m (probably even more than 15.5m). One month after that, MS probably has sold most of that stock especially since they released their biggest game Halo 5 in that period. Add to that Halo 5 LE bundle sales (I could see that doing 400K-500K WW easily), and 15m seems even more likely.

See, this is the problem when Microsoft doesn't release numbers, we can't get an accurate estimation. I disagree with your shipment numbers, but let's just put that aside. My estimates could be way off too. Anyway, I think you're overestimating the appeal of the Halo 5 bundle. The biggest market by far for Halo is the US and I bet the US will contribute a higher than usual percentage of the global sales in October in terms of hardware sales. Let's be generous and say the XB1 sold 450K in the US in October, I honestly can't see global sales being more than 800K for that month. What do you think?

Actually this month we have 3 PS4 SKU's next to XB1 compared to 2 XB1 SKU's in April.

I know, I worded it poorly. I meant to say that there are two other PS4 SKU's being quite close to the Halo 5 bundle with one being the highest selling console SKU for the month. You're really reading into the monthly charts too much, aren't you? Anyway, I really think this month will be very similar to April.

 

[mejin]

I see 18.5m Sold and 20m shipped.

Microsoft usually flood the market with consoles, but we all know the demand is way lower. Their logistic is not like Sony's.

 

[slavesnyder]

Damn yo, that Halo 5 bundle really did surprisingly well though, especially at that price point. I'm kind of amazed.

What a brand.

PS4 gonna need three different bundles to overcome the sales of a single $500 bundle.

The first two halos in the list are software, not consoles.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I did not know you can consult monthly data on Amazon. Can you post the link plz?

This is the monthly as it stands. I believe there's one more update to go. I haven't got a clue where he's getting his numbers from:

#23 PS4 Nathan Drake Bundle
#24 XB1 Halo Bundle
#28 PS4 Star Wars Bundle
#40 PS4 TLOUR Bundle
#48 PS4 Destiny Bundle
#49 PS4 Black Ops Bundle
#94 XB1 Gears Bundle

 

[cruise]

This is the monthly as it stands. I believe there's one more update to go. I haven't got a clue where he's getting his numbers from:

#23 PS4 Nathan Drake Bundle
#24 XB1 Halo Bundle
#28 PS4 Star Wars Bundle
#40 PS4 TLOUR Bundle
#48 PS4 Destiny Bundle
#49 PS4 Black Ops Bundle
#94 XB1 Gears Bundle

Damn yo, look at all those PS4 bundles in the top 50. There's like five of them.

Xbox so close to having just one in the top 100.

Are we still in preseason?

 

[DriftingSpirit]

How do we actually know there is one more update.

I think the week that just ended has not been added. I'm not completely sure though.