Like the public's generally negative reception to Masashi Hamauzu rearranging his own work for FFX-HD with a far better result than the original (in my own, completely unbiased, objective opinion that's absolute lalalalala I can't hear you. Nope, no bias here)
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Nobuo Uematsu won't be working on the Final Fantasy VII Remake
- Thread starter Edge_Maverick
- Start date
Like the public's generally negative reception to Masashi Hamauzu rearranging his own work for FFX-HD with a far better result than the original (in my own, completely unbiased, objective opinion that's absolute lalalalala I can't hear you. Nope, no bias here)
Teletraan1
Banned
We have info that there is a real time battle system and Uematsu won't be working on the Final Fantasy VII Remake. Those two things alone should invite some "bitching". This game has gone from one of my most wanted things to ever happen to I will go play the modded PC version.
Learn to read mate.
Meccanical
Member
No you don't.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Uematsu had no involvement in the FFIV or FFIII remakes and their soundtracks turned out fine.
He did songs for FFXIV. His last offline numbered FF game contribution was "Kiss Me Goodbye" for XII.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
DiipuSurotu
Banned
He did the full soundtrack for FFXIV 1.0.
Wat
Listen Ishida, i know we disagree on certain things regarding FFVersus13 and 15, but i gotta say your on point with FF7.
FF7R is gonna be something completely different from what the nostalgia boner people keep expecting, and so i've been saying from the announcement; its not even fair to the new work, or the old work, that attitude or expectation
FF12 was 10 years ago, and as you say, that was 1 song. FF14 1.0 was 6 years ago. Aren't you just proving my point? He's not going to come back for FF7 and it makes no sense for him to do so.
Which is why I have doubts about what ever remix comes out; a lot of the old midi music had a certain feel to it. While higher quality mixes should be good, I'm willing to bet that a lot of them will end up missing the point and instead just indulge in a bloated budget.
Ishimoto has gone on record saying the budget for Type-0 HD's soundtrack touch ups were not something to brag about.
edit: And just as a disclaimer, I'm not insinuating anyone's involvement here, just using the most recently released Square Enix HD port where the soundtrack was touched up as a convenient example.
Granted, FFVIIr is kind of on a different scale.
threelights
Member
"LR's composer officially confirmed to be doing a completely new soundtrack for the remake of FFVII."
(I'll never stop laughing at that title)
Hey I'd be down. He was awesome with The Last Remnant's OST.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Initially choked at the thread title...
....but because it will surely be arrangements of the original tracks... I'm less concerned.
....but because it will surely be arrangements of the original tracks... I'm less concerned.
I would totally be here for Ishimoto's return. I've always wanted extended versions of the re-arrangements in Fulfilled Desire, especially the battle theme. However, I don't know how well those would fit into the remake.
On further research, Fulfilled Desire wasn't arranged by Ishimoto, oh well. The rest of CC's soundtrack is still stellar.
On further research, Fulfilled Desire wasn't arranged by Ishimoto, oh well. The rest of CC's soundtrack is still stellar.
Green Mamba
Member
Can't wait to hear yet another butchered rendition of the boss theme. I don't think any arrangement of it has ever even understood what made the original good.
Nostalgia?
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Let the Battles Begin and Still More Fighting are two of the most difficult tracks I've found people remixing or rearranging. There's just something about the original instrumentation that makes it hard to capture with actual instruments or any other synth style.
JbstormburstADV
Member
I'm liking the concept of an Ishimoto/Sekito tag team, especially if they can get some really subtle guitar work in the background. And really, I don't get the issues people have with Advent: One Winged Angel, because I feel the guitar makes the tonal delivery god damned incredible.
I can agree with that. Those Who Fight Further in particular is a pain in the ass to rearrange. Hell, the FFVII AC version (not the piano, but the guitat/synth mix) still didn't get it right, even if it sounds great otherwise.
I can agree with that. Those Who Fight Further in particular is a pain in the ass to rearrange. Hell, the FFVII AC version (not the piano, but the guitat/synth mix) still didn't get it right, even if it sounds great otherwise.
Green Mamba
Member
No? I am pretty quick to accept a new rendition of a song but I don't think any rendition of the boss theme has upped the original.
In your own words, what made the original good?
Genuinely curious.
ehehehe beat you to it
^ Sawano did great work in Seven Deadly Sins, as well as Shingeki...but this kind of soundtrack i dunno.
I'd like to know what specifically was good about the theme that other renditions didn't get
I'd like to know what specifically was good about the theme that other renditions didn't get
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Ishimoto sounds like the perfect choice. He's been arranging music for the FF7 universe the longest and has definitely captured the feel of the world before.
Tracks will definitely have to be rearranged to fit the remake. The addition of cutscenes alone will make music much more dynamic at times.
Tracks will definitely have to be rearranged to fit the remake. The addition of cutscenes alone will make music much more dynamic at times.
Meccanical
Member
Don't necessarily agree.
None of the Compilation titles felt anything like FF7.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
I hope whoever does it, keeps the entire composition the same (or at least very similar) while UPDATING the sounds with a modern day equivalent instead of having an entire orchestrated soundtrack. An orchestrated Shinra HQ or Gold Saucer wouldn't have the same effect. Just compare the original Man with the Machine gun to the orchestrated version.
I don't think i could see anyone else but Ishimoto doing it really, he's just a great composer in general, and knows how to weave his magic with these tracks. Crisis core proved that to me handily
FF7 didn't feel like FF7 to a lot of people. Asking every person will give you a different answer on what they took away from that game. Personally, i felt a lot of the compilation did expand a lot on FF7 and actually give it something beyond "we're chasing this evil guy down for 75 percent of the game, one of us died, gotta stop a giant rock" type thing.
FF7 didn't feel like FF7 to a lot of people. Asking every person will give you a different answer on what they took away from that game. Personally, i felt a lot of the compilation did expand a lot on FF7 and actually give it something beyond "we're chasing this evil guy down for 75 percent of the game, one of us died, gotta stop a giant rock" type thing.
Meccanical
Member
Why the hell did it need to be anymore than that?
Dirge of Cerberus especially added way too much dumb shit to the world.
Astral Dog
Member
Every new thing we will hear about this game will be divisive.
Man, it really takes something else to reduce Final Fantasy VII of all games to something like that.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I generally agree with the sentiment that they shouldn't all be orchestral.
There are a lot of tracks in there that were clearly inspired by certain genres so, so it would be best to represent them with their real world equivalents.
Mako reactor is industrial.
Still More Fighting is like some rock opera thing (not sure of the exact genre)
Oppressed People is jazz or funk.
And some should retain their electronic quality, which is what I think you are saying. That's how I would have saved Besaid Village in the HD remaster... I'm sure Hamauzu originally intended for it to be this Okinawan feeling string piece, but what we got on PS2 and what resonated with us was that it actually felt like a ballad made of new age dance elements.
You do know that Sawano's work isn't limited to only just games and anime...
His best works have been for dramas like Team Medical Dragon and he has a huge range of dynamics. He can most definitely do a Final Fantasy Soundtrack since they're suited to his reputation as a "loud" composer.
The setting of the games fit well with his style too.
Sawano is actually a really good fit contrary to what duckroll and a lot of other people think.
Go take a listen to his other stuff. A composer as ambitious as him can replicate the same ambitiousness that Uematsu had when he first composed Final Fantasy VII.
My words here instead of his, but here they are anyway.
Badass synth heavy metal with an awesome organ.
YEAH!
Green Mamba
Member
I'm not really any good at describing music, but the original has a very strong, driving, and deliberate sounding beat to it and most renditions of it kind of gloss over it and put more emphasis on making it sound like techno or something. They tend to lack "oomph."
You need to calm down on this whole "rabble rabble nostalgia rabble rabble" angle you love to push.
Course it has. It's rock 'n' roll! Good rock, too. Both classically-inspired AND modern.
First comparison that comes to mind is the really great parts of Foreplay/Long Time by Boston. The beginning in particular.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I have no problem with it being a real guitar with a real organ.
I think the Black Mages rendition perfectly captures that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzFh9GuE0rA
Of course there's nothing wrong with that. But there's definitely synth in there that's untouchable. As in you can't just drop in horns or a string section and create the same texture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hGuSklt9_4&index=35&list=PLBF0B5181E2AE003B
The Last Story has a track that immediately reminded me of the boss theme from FFVII while not aping it entirely.
The Last Story has a track that immediately reminded me of the boss theme from FFVII while not aping it entirely.
Unless I've missed a piece of news, they're not going to be doing an entirely new soundtrack for the game. With that in mind, why would they need the original composer to remaster the songs? Uematsu is a phenomenal composer, but this is one of those cases where even if he was working on the remake, he would have little influence on how the music sounds.
It would be great to see his name attached to the remake, but if he's not needed for the remastering (and, potentially, rearranging process) then it would be completely pointless to have him on board.
It's closer, but the mix muddies up the dynamics between the different instruments.
Here comes another falk tl;dr.
(Prefacing this with another disclaimer that I am not discussing FFVIIr's development workings at all, but drawing from my own existing experiences with other projects that already are released as commercial games, interspersed with my own opinions. Sorry, too many people have quoted me out of context that I pretty much need to drop these disclaimers, heh)
Well yeah, I think we can all agree that for the case of an updated arrangement for use in a game in the same context, e.g. as boss music keeping the feel the same feel/genre is paramount.
You're probably referring to the AC version of Still More Fighting, where the beginning riff isn't identical, and then it goes into techno. The intention of the music there is completely different. AC isn't supposed to be a spruced up version of Final Fantasy 7. The arrangement there isn't supposed to be a 1:1 faithful-to-original.
Another example that's been brought up in this thread is orchestrated Man with the Machine Gun. I think a lot of people simply are getting confused between 'arrangement' and 'orchestration' as I mentioned previously in the thread. The two aren't synonymous. The whole point of an orchestration, is to make the music playable by an orchestra in a live concert setting. Obviously it's not going to sound like the original, and obviously the intention for that was never to be used in a game, nor is it supposed to function as a 'HD version' or 'modern version' of the track.
Square Enix has had multiple HD remakes in multiple franchises, of which the soundtracks were touched up to varying degrees. You don't see the genres jump that much (even in the context of the 'controversial' FFX-HD music remaster, which I think the rearrangements are stellar, but that's another topic altogether).
If anything, the feel of the tracks for games that are meant to be the an updated version of the game are kept intact. These projects generally get overseen by the original composers as well. We had Yoko Shimomura signing off on every single track in the KH collections.
Also diving a little deeper into the nostalgia factor (Sorry, it does need to be said), the original tracks simply resonate a different way with different people. I'll just use myself as an example. There's an tinny, lo-fi quality to the chime synths used in Anxious Heart that I associate with the desolation of the scenes that use that track in the original FF7. Other people might not pick up on that. Some people might simply like the formant-y, chuggy, disjointed sound of the electric guitars of the PSX sound chip belting out Still More Fighting. You're simply not going to get that effect with real guitars.
There's a difference between keeping the feel of a track and paying utmost respect to the original when updating their sounds, and fulfilling every attachment that every single fan has ever had with the original. The former is and should always be a priority. The latter is a practical impossibility.
All that being said, FF7r really is on a remake scale that's unprecedented for Square Enix. At this point, anyone from the outside looking in really doesn't have enough information to make a call on what fits and what doesn't. For all you know, even updated versions of the tracks, faithfully recreated 1:1 with modern techniques, might not fit the overall aesthetic, since the original game is really a very charming cross between hyper-gritty and super-deformed aesthetic inherent to that early 3D era in gaming.
I think that all the assertions that the music is going to be shit just because, or that they aren't going to fit, or that Square Enix are 'going to screw it up', are really rather premature.
Can I just address this part really quick?
Some people don't like Square anymore, and therefore do not treat Square like a freshfaced game dev group with everything to prove. There's no benefit of the doubt. Square has a proven track record. With Final Fantasy, it's a very specific kind of product now. FF7 remake is being developed by the same artists who make that product.
It's not a question of "how close is it going to be", but "how much like modern Final Fantasy is this going to be like?"
And the answer is probably going to be "more than you ever thought possible."
And if you don't like that, well, is it any wonder that opinion exists?
PsihoPerihelion
Member
My Man!
Since we're on the context of music here, what does "how much like modern Final Fantasies is this going to be like" mean in that regard?
(In case you missed it, that sentence you quoted specifically said music. I totally get the sentiment that changes to the gameplay or story might not sit well with fans of the original)
That it will be, in composition, more like modern Final Fantasy music. Which is its own thing. It's not Nobuo anymore. Right? The same mind isn't driving the same creation in the same environment.
So I guess what I'm saying is people who don't like what Square makes now won't be keen anytime soon. It's not premature. It's just how they operate.
Fair enough, although I'd contest that there's a clear definition of what constitutes 'modern final fantasy music'.
X does not sound like XI does not sound like XII does not sound like XIII does not sound like XIV does not sound like what we've heard from XV.
X does not sound like XI does not sound like XII does not sound like XIII does not sound like XIV does not sound like what we've heard from XV.
completely off topic I'm having a huge giggle that two hastily drawn mspaint faces are having a conversation on an online forum