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[A-V-B]

Please, sir, it wasn't hastily drawn. You have no idea the suffering I endured in the effort to make it the most neutral face in history.

Spoiler

it was hastily drawn

 

[WolvenOne]

Square Enix has a lot of talented composers, any of would do a fine job of arranging the original soundtrack.

 

[spazchicken]

Well between this and the "real time battle system" this remake is turning out to be a hot mess.

Did they really confirm this?

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Fuck me. This sucks. The last time someone arranged a masterpiece that shit from FFX-HD happened.

 

[WolvenOne]

Fuck me. This sucks. The last time someone arranged a masterpiece that shit from FFX-HD happened.

Well a number of themes from FFIII were arranged last year by Soken, and thru turned out really well. So strictly speaking your statement isn't really true.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Falk

My point was that they shouldn't make an orchestrated soundtrack because games love being Hollywood and 95% of the soundtracks that do, end up being generic and non-memorable i.e. everything classic Uematsu isnt. I haven't played any recent FF titles or remasters, so I don't really have any idea of how they are. I have, however, played recent SE published titles (mostly Eidos) and Absolution's soundtrack pales in comparison to Blood Money.

 

[Falk]

Falk

My point was that they shouldn't make an orchestrated soundtrack because games love being Hollywood and 95% of the soundtracks that do, end up being generic and non-memorable i.e. everything classic Uematsu isnt. I haven't played any recent FF titles or remasters, so I don't really have any idea of how they are. I have, however, played recent SE published titles (mostly Eidos) and Absolution's soundtrack pales in comparison to Blood Money.

Here's some stuff from KH2.5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXh9ieN9ttM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IaoABxFf_Y

Are those live players? Yes. Partially.

Does it count as orchestrated? Sorta. In the context that the string parts and horn parts of the arrangement was arranged for live players, hence orchestration.

Is it Hollywood style? Nah. It remains Kingdom Hearts style.

The way Western studios treat soundtracks is very different from how Japanese devs treat soundtracks, and I'd actually venture to agree with you in that I could do with less Hollywood-esque compositions in western games, but that's a completely different discussion altogether. (and one that's been done to the death on NeoGAF hahaha)

Funny you should mention SE's western stable - As much as I love DXHR's soundtrack I was recently listening to the original's music by Alexander Brandon&co out of nostalgia. That was an awesome OST.

 

[Teknoman]

Did they really confirm this?

Not yet. People are taking the director, his expertise, and what he said about not having the same battle system, then connecting the dots.

I hope those dots dont connect in reality.

I have complete faith in the OST though, because there really hasnt ever been a bad FF soundtrack.

 

[WolvenOne]

Not yet. People are taking the director, his expertise, and what he said about not having the same battle system, then connecting the dots.

I hope those dots dont connect in reality.

I have complete faith in the OST though, because there really hasnt ever been a bad FF soundtrack.

On this subject. While I fully expect the battle system to be somewhat more active, they'd be hard pressed to go full on action RPG for a few reasons. The world's too big, the story too long, threw cast too diverse.

It's very difficult to make action RPGs that have the same scale as a turn based rpg. In action RPGs most environments and encounters are very carefully crafted to make certain that the player is seeing new situations frequently. The same level of crafting in a game the size and scope of FFVII would be a massive undertaking.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

.

I should've clarified that I'm not against orchestration/orchestra arrangements, just full on Hollywood-esque type soundtracks. The ones you linked are fine and sound neat, which is basically what they should strive for. FF7's orchestrated main theme is amazing and would be a great fit for the game considering the original was basically an orchestration.

I haven't played Human Revolution so I can't comment on it. I enjoyed Invisible War though, haha

Tl;Dr make it japanese, not western.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You need to calm down on this whole "rabble rabble nostalgia rabble rabble" angle you love to push.

I'm asking a question, my intent is to get an actual answer and not pointed fingers about my 'agenda', dude. My question was as valid as Falk's.

Man, it really takes something else to reduce Final Fantasy VII of all games to something like that.

I don't think anyone could really reduce FF7 down, even if just based on its impact alone.

My point is, in the plot itself, quite a small amount happened in reality. Your going from town to town trying to find Sephiroth for quite a large part of the game. Apart from that, a lot of the details like character traits and character interactions, gameplay systems and the like are all dependent on what the player takes away from them.

So for me playing Crisis core for example, i didn't actually have an issue with the deviation from FF7 enough to make me feel like 'i wasn't playing FF7'. It was just another kind of FF7, the same the remake will be most likely.

There's really nothing one can do about living up to to the original in the eyes of those who have so many different feelings about it

 

[Perfo]

Make Hamauzu arrange it.

This.

 

[jb1234]

Falk

My point was that they shouldn't make an orchestrated soundtrack because games love being Hollywood and 95% of the soundtracks that do, end up being generic and non-memorable i.e. everything classic Uematsu isnt. I haven't played any recent FF titles or remasters, so I don't really have any idea of how they are. I have, however, played recent SE published titles (mostly Eidos) and Absolution's soundtrack pales in comparison to Blood Money.

That's not a fault of orchestras, though. There was a time when film scores were wonderfully vibrant, with strong themes but starting in the 90s, the music got increasingly homogenized. Nowadays, it seems like directors want the music to sit in the background, contributing mood but not much else. As games have become increasingly cinematic, the music has fallen suit. It's a shame because music can service the medium AND be memorable but it seems like that's not what film and game makers want these days.

I think Hamauzu would be a good fit for this project because he has serious chops and knows how to work his way around an orchestra. He can orchestrate the smaller-scaled pieces for either a chamber group or chamber orchestra and then give the big pieces (like the overworld theme) the full-on treatment. Other pieces (like the boss theme) could incorporate electronics and a rock band.

Either way, the game will almost certainly need new music written for it

 

[Rajang]

You guys should listen to Pontus Hultgren's arrangements. I've listened to a lot of re-arrangements, but his ones feel like the best ones that can still fit in the game. He keeps the essence of the originals and adds a few light touches.

Holding my Thoughts in My Heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzrwHrfTPJw

Bombing Mission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wt4EnfvfJc

Ahead on Our Way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh98X9FtiKU

I really want something close to his work.

Wow, this is perfect.

 

[Teknoman]

On this subject. While I fully expect the battle system to be somewhat more active, they'd be hard pressed to go full on action RPG for a few reasons. The world's too big, the story too long, threw cast too diverse.

It's very difficult to make action RPGs that have the same scale as a turn based rpg. In action RPGs most environments and encounters are very carefully crafted to make certain that the player is seeing new situations frequently. The same level of crafting in a game the size and scope of FFVII would be a massive undertaking.

I really hope so. Even with games like Ys VII and Celceta, I really dont like the A.I. party member angle. Anything action based is usually done with a single person focus imo.

 

[encephalon]

Videogames are collaborative efforts.

Videogames are collaborative efforts.

Videogames are collaborative efforts.

 

[Dark_castle]

I just hope they let us choose between original or remastered music, like in one of the FFIV remaster.

 

[Bennettt2]

You guys should listen to Pontus Hultgren's arrangements. I've listened to a lot of re-arrangements, but his ones feel like the best ones that can still fit in the game. He keeps the essence of the originals and adds a few light touches.

Holding my Thoughts in My Heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzrwHrfTPJw

Bombing Mission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wt4EnfvfJc

Ahead on Our Way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh98X9FtiKU

I really want something close to his work.

Been waiting forever for someone to bring "Interrupted by fireworks" to the next level. So good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu7AL2fSyk&list=PLxAX2CW8tcpq9Sg-wrwSyQh_5gs-mMcOv&index=14

(I know there is a final symphony version, too, but I think it sounds completely different/reimagined)
Everything else is excellent, too.

 

[Andyliini]

Did he do the arranged music for Final Fantasy Origins? I really loved the soundtrack in that game.

I just checked from the Final Fantasy Origins instruction manual, Uematsu arranged Final Fantasy I himself, but Final Fantasy II was arranged by Tsuyoshi Sekito.

 

[Asd202]

Ohh . Oh well I just hope they won't go crazy with arranging and stay in tune with the original. I would personally pick Hamazu to do it.

 

[Koozek]

Here comes another falk tl;dr.

(Prefacing this with another disclaimer that I am not discussing FFVIIr's development workings at all, but drawing from my own existing experiences with other projects that already are released as commercial games, interspersed with my own opinions. Sorry, too many people have quoted me out of context that I pretty much need to drop these disclaimers, heh)

Well yeah, I think we can all agree that for the case of an updated arrangement for use in a game in the same context, e.g. as boss music keeping the feel the same feel/genre is paramount.

You're probably referring to the AC version of Still More Fighting, where the beginning riff isn't identical, and then it goes into techno. The intention of the music there is completely different. AC isn't supposed to be a spruced up version of Final Fantasy 7. The arrangement there isn't supposed to be a 1:1 faithful-to-original.

Another example that's been brought up in this thread is orchestrated Man with the Machine Gun. I think a lot of people simply are getting confused between 'arrangement' and 'orchestration' as I mentioned previously in the thread. The two aren't synonymous. The whole point of an orchestration, is to make the music playable by an orchestra in a live concert setting. Obviously it's not going to sound like the original, and obviously the intention for that was never to be used in a game, nor is it supposed to function as a 'HD version' or 'modern version' of the track.

Square Enix has had multiple HD remakes in multiple franchises, of which the soundtracks were touched up to varying degrees. You don't see the genres jump that much (even in the context of the 'controversial' FFX-HD music remaster, which I think the rearrangements are stellar, but that's another topic altogether).

If anything, the feel of the tracks for games that are meant to be the an updated version of the game are kept intact. These projects generally get overseen by the original composers as well. We had Yoko Shimomura signing off on every single track in the KH collections.

Also diving a little deeper into the nostalgia factor (Sorry, it does need to be said), the original tracks simply resonate a different way with different people. I'll just use myself as an example. There's an tinny, lo-fi quality to the chime synths used in Anxious Heart that I associate with the desolation of the scenes that use that track in the original FF7. Other people might not pick up on that. Some people might simply like the formant-y, chuggy, disjointed sound of the electric guitars of the PSX sound chip belting out Still More Fighting. You're simply not going to get that effect with real guitars.

There's a difference between keeping the feel of a track and paying utmost respect to the original when updating their sounds, and fulfilling every attachment that every single fan has ever had with the original. The former is and should always be a priority. The latter is a practical impossibility.

All that being said, FF7r really is on a remake scale that's unprecedented for Square Enix. At this point, anyone from the outside looking in really doesn't have enough information to make a call on what fits and what doesn't. For all you know, even updated versions of the tracks, faithfully recreated 1:1 with modern techniques, might not fit the overall aesthetic, since the original game is really a very charming cross between hyper-gritty and super-deformed aesthetic inherent to that early 3D era in gaming.

I think that all the assertions that the music is going to be shit just because, or that they aren't going to fit, or that Square Enix are 'going to screw it up', are really rather premature.

Falk spitting truth as usual.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I just hope they let us choose between original or remastered music, like in one of the FFIV remaster.

This isn't a remaster though. That would never fit an actual remake..

I think people are kind of confused as to what the product is...

This is a completely new game AAA Playstation 4 game based on FF7. It literally has no relation to the code base or design of the original FF7. They can't just slap old PS1 synthesized music on the soundtrack and have it make any sense.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

As long as they're keeping all the old music and simply rearranging them, we should be fine, and it seems to be par for the course with a remake. Junya Nakano did a really nice job rearranging the soundtrack of FFIV to sound fresh, but faithful to the original, and Takeharu Ishimoto did great work with Dissidia and Crisis Core.

And as far as original composers go, Masashi Hamauzu is pretty amazing too. XIII had a great soundtrack and he filled Uematsu's gaps on FFX very nicely.



I wouldn't have any objections to this at all.

Yeah, so long as it's not a totally new, alien soundtrack, I don't mind. In fact it'd be neat to hear the old classic tracks rearranged.

 

[Sakujou]

I thought this was clear? Some people need to come back to reality. This come wont be like the original anymore.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Here comes another falk tl;dr.

(Prefacing this with another disclaimer that I am not discussing FFVIIr's development workings at all, but drawing from my own existing experiences with other projects that already are released as commercial games, interspersed with my own opinions. Sorry, too many people have quoted me out of context that I pretty much need to drop these disclaimers, heh)

Well yeah, I think we can all agree that for the case of an updated arrangement for use in a game in the same context, e.g. as boss music keeping the feel the same feel/genre is paramount.

You're probably referring to the AC version of Still More Fighting, where the beginning riff isn't identical, and then it goes into techno. The intention of the music there is completely different. AC isn't supposed to be a spruced up version of Final Fantasy 7. The arrangement there isn't supposed to be a 1:1 faithful-to-original.

Another example that's been brought up in this thread is orchestrated Man with the Machine Gun. I think a lot of people simply are getting confused between 'arrangement' and 'orchestration' as I mentioned previously in the thread. The two aren't synonymous. The whole point of an orchestration, is to make the music playable by an orchestra in a live concert setting. Obviously it's not going to sound like the original, and obviously the intention for that was never to be used in a game, nor is it supposed to function as a 'HD version' or 'modern version' of the track.

Square Enix has had multiple HD remakes in multiple franchises, of which the soundtracks were touched up to varying degrees. You don't see the genres jump that much (even in the context of the 'controversial' FFX-HD music remaster, which I think the rearrangements are stellar, but that's another topic altogether).

If anything, the feel of the tracks for games that are meant to be the an updated version of the game are kept intact. These projects generally get overseen by the original composers as well. We had Yoko Shimomura signing off on every single track in the KH collections.

Also diving a little deeper into the nostalgia factor (Sorry, it does need to be said), the original tracks simply resonate a different way with different people. I'll just use myself as an example. There's an tinny, lo-fi quality to the chime synths used in Anxious Heart that I associate with the desolation of the scenes that use that track in the original FF7. Other people might not pick up on that. Some people might simply like the formant-y, chuggy, disjointed sound of the electric guitars of the PSX sound chip belting out Still More Fighting. You're simply not going to get that effect with real guitars.

There's a difference between keeping the feel of a track and paying utmost respect to the original when updating their sounds, and fulfilling every attachment that every single fan has ever had with the original. The former is and should always be a priority. The latter is a practical impossibility.

All that being said, FF7r really is on a remake scale that's unprecedented for Square Enix. At this point, anyone from the outside looking in really doesn't have enough information to make a call on what fits and what doesn't. For all you know, even updated versions of the tracks, faithfully recreated 1:1 with modern techniques, might not fit the overall aesthetic, since the original game is really a very charming cross between hyper-gritty and super-deformed aesthetic inherent to that early 3D era in gaming.

I think that all the assertions that the music is going to be shit just because, or that they aren't going to fit, or that Square Enix are 'going to screw it up', are really rather premature.

Agree 100 percent.

 

[Bennettt2]

Just a thought - maybe the next FF7r trailer give an indication of the music direction.

 

[Koozek]

I thought this was clear? Some people need to come back to reality. This come wont be like the original anymore.

To be honest even I thought that they might get him on boat for a big "The legend is back!" promo campaign and I am aware (and happy) that this will be a radical new take on the original.

 

[Aureon]

I really wouldn't worry about Ishimoto not 'getting' FF, anyway.

Yeah, it's going to be Ishimoto. Soken is busy.

 

[Spiritwalker]

That's a bit disappointing to be honest, but as others have pointed out they have a ton of really talented composers over there.

EDIT: Maybe I'm alone in this, but I wouldn't mind the Black Mages version of the boss battle theme.

 

[Caronte]

Another disaster like FFX HD's remixes incoming.

 

[Falk]

Another disaster like FFX HD's remixes incoming.

Funny you should phrase it that way, considering FFX HD's remaster were handled by the original people with Nakano handling most of Uematsu's stuff while Uematsu was overseeing, meaning if Nobuo Uematsu were at the helm, it'd actually be more like that situation, technically.

Do you even know what you want lol

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/18/5498016/final-fantasy-10-hd-remastered-soundtrack

"If we're remastering the soundtrack, we might as well change it dramatically than conservatively, right?" Uematsu said.

(Yeah yeah Polygon, etc)

ed: bad @ typing

 

[Meccanical]

Falk, fans don't actually know what they want.

They say they do but they don't.

This is why they should be ignored.

I've gone on record saying I would never want an FF7 remake, one triler later and it's one of my most anticipated titles.

I don't really know what I want.

 

[encephalon]

My god, the upgraded FFX soundtrack is so good. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the Vita ver seemed to have a low quality feel to it (to fit on the card?), but listening to the tracks on youtube ... I especially like the new Besaid track people are so up in arms about.

If only Yuna and Tidus' faces weren't such a step down from the original ...

 

[jb1234]

My god, the upgraded FFX soundtrack is so good. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the Vita ver seemed to have a low quality feel to it (to fit on the card?), but listening to the tracks on youtube ... I especially like the new Besaid track people are so up in arms about.

If only Yuna and Tidus' faces weren't such a step down from the original ...

Yeah, I had no issues with it either. It was nice to have another interpretation of familiar pieces. People just *really* hate change.

 

[Meccanical]

My god, the upgraded FFX soundtrack is so good. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the Vita ver seemed to have a low quality feel to it (to fit on the card?), but listening to the tracks on youtube ... I especially like the new Besaid track people are so up in arms about.

It sounds nice to be sure but it is very much a different feel from the original, which I can understand would upset some people.

 

[Katzenjammer]

I'm trying to think about how Uematsu would think about this and, why would he want to redo his own work from the past? He was interviewed at the Final Symphony II concert in London and there it was evident that he doesn't care as much about his past projects as his fans do. For him it's just work he did in his past.

In my daily work I also work based on projects (albeit in a completely different field), and revisiting an old project to remake it ground up sounds like a nightmare. It will take a few years from people's lives that could have been spent producing something new, and I have a hunch that fans will be disappointed both if they stick too close to the original and if they stray too far from it.

 

[Kain]

I don't think this is surprising at all, why would he be? The soundtrack is already done, why work on it again? It's a remake, not a new game, so they can rearrange or create entirely new music with new people (not a chance in hell lol). The people at S-E doing the rearrangements for the collections have done a wonderful job thus far, so I see no reason to be concerned. Yet.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

You guys should listen to Pontus Hultgren's arrangements. I've listened to a lot of re-arrangements, but his ones feel like the best ones that can still fit in the game. He keeps the essence of the originals and adds a few light touches.

Holding my Thoughts in My Heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzrwHrfTPJw

Bombing Mission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wt4EnfvfJc

Ahead on Our Way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh98X9FtiKU

I really want something close to his work.

Damn.

These are perfect.

Everyone give these a listen.

Hire this guy up, Square!

 

[NotEasy]

Sad news for me,but hopefully it will sound amazing like the original or even better.

 

[jett]

I don't understand this need from some people for Squeenix to adhere to the original as most as possible. Particularly soundtrack-wise, this game needs new arrangements. Technically it never sounded good. I really wouldn't mind if they took chances and had something like this for Farm Boy, for example.

If you want the original game, the original is available for you to play.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

"Why would he be?"

I don't know, maybe because he said he wanted to.

https://twitter.com/Nova_Crystallis/status/642754069896015872

 

[entremet]

Jeez. I need to play the PS1 game again btw.

Why? It's the worst way to play the game. Unless you have other option.

 

[jb1234]

"Why would he be?"

I don't know, maybe because he said he wanted to.

https://twitter.com/Nova_Crystallis/status/642754069896015872

That's kinda a vague statement and doesn't necessarily mean he wanted to be a part of the project.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I don't understand this need from some people for Squeenix to adhere to the original as most as possible. Particularly soundtrack-wise, this game needs new arrangements. Technically it never sounded good. I really wouldn't mind if they took chances and had something like this for Farm Boy, for example.

If you want the original game, the original is available for you to play.

But just take a listen to these 18 remastered tracks by a fan.

He's down a great job of keeping the feel of the old arrangements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh98X9FtiKU&list=PLxAX2CW8tcpq9Sg-wrwSyQh_5gs-mMcOv&index=9

 

[entremet]

Nostalgia?

That is the conceit of this remake.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Doesn't mean he needs to be involved. The score was finished 20 something years ago.

I don't think it's as big a deal as people make it to be (Square has many more composers who are totally apt for the job), it's just that I understand why people would be reticent to having someone else work on the score for their childhood defining game.

 

[Zabant]

I hear Cloud will be voiced by Keifer Sutherland also

 

[jett]

I hear Cloud will be voiced by Keifer Sutherland also

This game will most definitely have voice acting tho...

But just take a listen to these 18 remastered tracks by a fan.

He's down a great job of keeping the feel of the old arrangements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh98X9FtiKU&list=PLxAX2CW8tcpq9Sg-wrwSyQh_5gs-mMcOv&index=9

Those are nice for what they are, straight-forward orchestral arrangements of the original. I think I would expect a bit more out of this remake.

 

[Zhao_Yun]

I already love his rearrangements that he's already done, so not really in my case.

But I'm sure those people would be out there. But that's a different argument to be had.

edit: He's also not infallible, so there's also a chance he wouldn't do the best job to my liking, as well. But I'd much rather have the original artist remake their own work for a remade game.

Which rearrangements do you mean? I don't think Uematsu has ever rearranged his own music himself except for the Dear Friends album of FFV.

 

[jett]

Which rearrangements do you mean? I don't think Uematsu has ever rearranged his own music himself except for the Dear Friends album of FFV.

There's the Advent Children soundtrack, I guess.