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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2015 (Dec 07 - Dec 13)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Just because those games release in the west doesn't mean they're not primarily JP focused.
That doesn't really matter, these games are still generally greenlit/budgeted with Japan primairily (or only in some cases) in mind.
So you think the west has no weight in the decision making process?
I don't agree with you.
No, of course not but there's obviously some games where the west is less of a consideration.
Time to turn the tables on the every 3rd party Japanese ps4 game will be on nx notion!! Time to guess obvious nx titles that will also come to ps4 to even the scales
Etrian odyssey, smtv, mh stories, mhx, yokai watch, ace attorney, etc...this should be enough to ruffle some feathers for now
my plan seems to be working
lets take it a step further and begin phase 2With nintendo making games for mobile, what are the odds of them making games for other home consoles/pc? they could still say they are into hardware by making handhelds because they are consistently successful in that segment even though mobile is eating into it. barring a wii like phenomenon which is very unlikely to happen again imo I honestly can't see what they can do to get people to adopt their home consoles in huge numbers or get publishers like bethesda, ea and rockstar to support their platform. could we see a return of something like nintendo playstation?
Minecraft NX port published by Atlus
Jon Carter
Member
$70 price tag.
PoPoLoCrois is on 3DS so I guess anything's possible.my plan seems to be working
With nintendo making games for mobile, what are the odds of them making games for other home consoles/pc? they could still say they are into hardware by making handhelds because they are consistently successful in that segment even though mobile is eating into it. barring a wii like phenomenon which is very unlikely to happen again imo I honestly can't see what they can do to get people to adopt their home consoles in huge numbers or get publishers like bethesda, ea and rockstar to support their platform. could we see a return of something like nintendo playstation?
Re: Western performance of the PS4:
As time goes on we might actually get to the situation where there are a lot of niche Japanese titles being greenlit with Western sales in mind simply due to the massive rate of decay in Japan, however, I feel that's certainly not the majority today.
That said, we do see the first signs of this. Titles like VLR 3, Nier 2, and perhaps even Ni No Kuni 2 are games that exist because there was a significant audience (relative to product expectations) abroad.
What I do think we're seeing right now however is that ports are being made with the West in mind. Bandai Namco just announced four or five new titles as coming to the PC and some were pretty out of left field like God Eater. The PS4 edition of Digimon also clearly exists for the international release.
1.) The platform will work with the engine. In this case, the NX would have to at least be capable of running the mobile version of the engine.
2.) They have customers that express interest in using the engine on the platform. Epic made very little effort into Unreal Engine 3 on the Vita for example because when they went around and asked, almost no one wanted it.
As time goes on we might actually get to the situation where there are a lot of niche Japanese titles being greenlit with Western sales in mind simply due to the massive rate of decay in Japan, however, I feel that's certainly not the majority today.
That said, we do see the first signs of this. Titles like VLR 3, Nier 2, and perhaps even Ni No Kuni 2 are games that exist because there was a significant audience (relative to product expectations) abroad.
What I do think we're seeing right now however is that ports are being made with the West in mind. Bandai Namco just announced four or five new titles as coming to the PC and some were pretty out of left field like God Eater. The PS4 edition of Digimon also clearly exists for the international release.
Epic's been pretty straightforward about their criteria for bringing Unreal Engine to a platform.
1.) The platform will work with the engine. In this case, the NX would have to at least be capable of running the mobile version of the engine.
2.) They have customers that express interest in using the engine on the platform. Epic made very little effort into Unreal Engine 3 on the Vita for example because when they went around and asked, almost no one wanted it.
And where do we put the line? do you know for certain which games aren't considered?
A few months ago there was a discussion about how GE:Resurrection could be not only a new improved remaster of the original but a bridge to try to relaunch the franchise in the west after the unfavourable circunstances surrounding the initial God Eater on the PSP. Some people didn't agree of course. GE is only about Japan.
Today that came true, and the game was announced along with GE2:RB to come to PS4, Vita and PC in 2016
God Eater is a very japanese game. It obviously made with the japanese market in mind. But could you deny that they took the west into consideration when they planned Resurrection?
Why was the new NieR announced on E3 if they didn't care about the west when budgetting the game? Why was NNK2 on PSX? Why is DQXI in PS4 when the 3DS version is enough for Japan? I think there are plenty of games where the west is being taken into consideration that are not named FF, Resident Evil and Metal Gear.
I'm not sure you can read too much into God Eater apart from the fact a PC SKU was created for the west. Actually I'd say the fact that the game is made with Vita as the baseline kind of indicates that Japan was still the main factor in the production.
I think the other problem people have with the argument is that for a lot of games no platform has proved to be substantial benefit in the west. DQ Heroes sold on par with the DS DQ games in the west so what advantage did the PS4 offer?
Overall I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think people are oversimplifying it a lot.
EDIT: @Nirolak: There's also Project X Zone 2 as another 3DS example.
DarkLordMalik
Member
This game has bomba written all over it. Speaking of PxZ 2, it is yet another game which had the sequel greenlight because of sales in the West.
Wait... that's what I meant! Not the other conversation.
EDIT: I'm fairly sure PXZ2 and Bravely Second come out within a week of each other over here(UK/EU).
We don't really know how they performed, NPD launch is not the whole western performance for japanese games, or any games for that matter. I hope for some shipment data in financial reports in a few months
In the case of DQH, the game sold over a million in Japan+Asia, so I don't know where else should they have made it. NX isn't available yet /jk
That reminds me that Asia is another growing market where PS ecosystem is dominant and I'm sure publishers also think about it for many games.
If the 3DS was adequately powerful enough it probably would have been a good idea to release it there (as well). Which is exactly what I mean by it not being as simple as it being for "The West".
On another note even if they continue down a path it doesn't mean it was the correct one. Some publishers can/do fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy.
I don't think the platform choice for Dragon Quest Heroes was very confusing.
Musou games of all types had sold really well on PlayStation home consoles and the brand was going to be there as well anyway so they put it there.
It got a PC port because it was simple and they've ported their engine over already and there's basically zero risk associated with releasing a game on Steam versus paying $12 per copy made (with a minimum print run in the 5000-10,000 range) for a physical release on a console.
Musou games of all types had sold really well on PlayStation home consoles and the brand was going to be there as well anyway so they put it there.
It got a PC port because it was simple and they've ported their engine over already and there's basically zero risk associated with releasing a game on Steam versus paying $12 per copy made (with a minimum print run in the 5000-10,000 range) for a physical release on a console.
that's a big if after watching some Hyrule Warriors 3ds footage, no offense.
I don't think you're quite following me.
The decision of where to put DQH was motivated by technological reasons(and bult-in Musou audience) not by any perceived advantage in the west. In relation to that the PS4 didn't seem to offer any major advantage(in the US at least).
To bring that back to an earlier point DQXI is indeed on PS4 despite the existence of a 3DS version but it's hard to suggest this is a decision motivated by the west when the platform didn't seem to help DQH. It's also further muddied by both the fact it's the 30th Anniversary title and Horii said he wants a big screen version, and that it's announced for NX(although we don't know which version).
This is one clear case where saying "It's because of the west" is probably a gross simplification and might not even be accurate.
EDIT: Just to be clear I'm not suggesting any of that decision making is necessarily incorrect.
Well, I don't think anybody is saying "it's ONLY because of the west" for any game. I'm not fwiw.
And we're back to square one, where the decisions take into account multiple factors so 'everything should be on __' is silly.
Did we? I don't see it.
frankie_baby
Member
My uncle works at konami and he's told me they sacked kojima so they could afford to fund a AAA monster Hunter for the Sega Saturn
I'd question how realistic this scenario would be for titles unlike the latter mentioned in your third paragraph, when we have performances as low as Toukiden, DQH, and such. Zestiria wouldn't have met even past performances if we didn't factor in every platform available compared to just one last gen. In as of so far, the market hasn't been responding and greenliting further investment of this kind would seem counter intuitive even against the decaying Japanese market. D5 was an all in all good performance in the west but it got murdered in Japan for its platform specificity.
If anything, I would say that PC has become a near-necessity in these projects (even the well off ones in terms of broader market appeal) because the console space simply cannot sustain them in the west (and PC is an ever growing market). DQH went from "Exclusive to PS4 in 2015" to PC pre-orders popping up right after NPD showed how it performed. I think, if anything, earlier in the generation there was more hope for the market being more receptive than it actually turned out to be but the PC has, for some titles, reacted favorably to supporting the western releases. As such, and as we're seeing, more and more titles are going to simply be PC bound day-and-date with the PS4 (and then you kind of start reaching a cart/horse scenario as jRPG fans do not concentrate in the west on a platform). I don't know how reliably the PC can pick up the slack for these lesser known brands. We've already axed the X1 from the global considerations for these titles (who knows with how much helping from Sony).
However, you are right in saying that the decay in the Japanese market is a big concern. It may, ultimately, force the hand of developers to push west if they want to have a console market to even sell to. Irregardless of what the NX is or is not, the market in the pure console space is deathly ill. Remove the 3DS, as Okami did so illustratively either in this thread or one back, and you have a market with an anemic software sales performance, split amongst the remnants (remove the Vita and it only gets worse, and Sony has effectively decided to remove it all on their own). The global market leader console is trading blows with a moribund console in software sales.
When the 3DS goes out, if the NX doesn't pick up the slack, there simply won't exist a sustainable retail video game market in Japan.
DarkLordMalik
Member
The mistake you are making here is assuming that the failure of one single spin-off, that barely received any marketing in the West, will decide the fate of the franchise.
You say DQH wasn't helped by the release on PS4 but when the series remained irrelevant in the West, and received a Musou based spin-off that was released after all this time, using that to say the platform didn't sell it is a bit disingenuous. Because the fault doesn't lie with the platform, but with how the series was treated in the past.
Japanese people are not one to be impressed by fancy graphics so unless SE wants to burn their money by spending so much on a large scale DQ, I don't understant why they even greenlit it. Just because Hori said let me throw some money in fire? You can cast it aside as much as you want but a big budget DQ was greenlit because of the potential to market and sell in the West. They also want to cash on all the PS4 RPGs that are getting released and hoping that the audience catches on.
Only time will tell whether they made a mistake or not.
Yeah, I think there would obviously be a lot of titles that just keeled over and died in a scenario where the Japanese market became even more toxic than it is.
At this point most companies seem interested in at least testing their franchises in the West though on as many likely target platforms as possible in an effort to see a future.
If you're Musou, I think it's less of an issue since you're actually still one of the biggest brands in Japan, but as you said, Nippon Ichi is a great example of the type of company really struggling to continue existing.
There are plausibly a few that will end up editing themselves to be more appealing overseas as well despite being niche titles. If you look at Dragon Ball: XenoVerse's design, it slots in pretty well to how things were trending overseas while maintaining the spirit of what people wanted out of the IP.
Right. We're already seeing this with Toukiden 2 attempting to take on the Open World mantle, as another example. That is a consideration/evolution spawned by Western appeal.
If the editing fails to produce results, the series has a high likelihood of simply dying off.
People seem really hung up on dqh or tales of zesteria in us npd. hope they will be able to explain why these games are still coming over at a higer rate and will continue to be brought over. the problem is that a lot of emphasis is being put on first month sales in US retail NPD. there are a lot of emerging markets where ps4 is doing very good. games nowadays also have a longer tail. IF the game is good then it will sell at every price point as it goes down from 60-50-40-30-20-10 etc.. it is easy to do on pc with steam and playstation has been doing pretty good with constant sales as well.
i think you are reaching their with that argument. i am sure someone at square went "man these npd numbers are terrible on ps4, quick put up preorders on steam" lol
DarkLordMalik
Member
Then they saw the sales number on Steam afterwards and were like "lets cancel every DQ in West on PC/PS4 and put it on NX/3DS"
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
FF/KH3 on PS4 was never risky and if anything the PS4's success has only further validated SE's choice.
FF Type 0 HD was noted to be a success by SE, D5 did well, Bloodborne outsold previous entries, DQ iirc was in line with the remakes on DS, ToZ was in line with ToX2 (PS3/4+PC effectively PS4+PC, was close to ToX which was the best opening of a Tales game in the west in recent times).
I have said it numerous times, IP strength is a big factor. 2016 will give us an even better idea with FFXV, SO5, Nier, Persona 5, and numerous others releasing.
Japanese third parties have already told us about the importance of Asia in recent times.
This week? We play the game of everything on PS4 for months now.
Well it's not really a successor is the thing. Just another game from a new CH branch.
MST was pretty successful for them at least but it's rather wildly different. A weird simulation VN/TRPG/Mystery Dungeon made by ex-Disgaea staff? Yeah that's unique enough to get some sales.
Weird mech DRPG with a so-so artstyle with staff from a rather less known game (MetalMax)? Doesn't seem as special. Not to mention, CH have also previously released two DRPGs so there are more expectations (or lack thereof) towards their skills with the genre, not to mention the DRPG genre is just utterly saturated on Vita now.
I'm expecting it to do Omega Quintet numbers, which is disappointing, especially since this looks like a game with significantly less recycling/more effort in it, but I'm certain they'll bounce back.
Sammy Samusu
Member
hsdgfjhsdfg
People were talking specifically about Atlus games and nobody was saying that the games couldn't possibly be multiplat.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Anyone interested in switching topics?
So what do folks think about current holiday sales?
For me they are a lot better than my own expectations at least. 3DS has so far maintained over 100K weekly fairly easily since the release of MHX. The PS4 has been fairly steady (although it's missing that DQHeroes week from last year), and Wii U is increasing thanks to the Splatoon/Mario Maker.
Btw, Pennywise probably has kept track of this, but how is this year's Sumiko game compared to last year's release? Is this a game based off an anime or something? Never heard of it outside of these threads.
Also I'm somewhat interested in how the Vita will do next year. While Sony has withdrawn support, it's still seeming to get titles like World of Final Fantasy and so forth. I kind of wonder whether we'll get a God Eater 3 or something eventually on Vita, or would that be too far out.
So what do folks think about current holiday sales?
For me they are a lot better than my own expectations at least. 3DS has so far maintained over 100K weekly fairly easily since the release of MHX. The PS4 has been fairly steady (although it's missing that DQHeroes week from last year), and Wii U is increasing thanks to the Splatoon/Mario Maker.
Btw, Pennywise probably has kept track of this, but how is this year's Sumiko game compared to last year's release? Is this a game based off an anime or something? Never heard of it outside of these threads.
Also I'm somewhat interested in how the Vita will do next year. While Sony has withdrawn support, it's still seeming to get titles like World of Final Fantasy and so forth. I kind of wonder whether we'll get a God Eater 3 or something eventually on Vita, or would that be too far out.
Pennywise83
Banned
These will be Nintendo holidays - 3DS: MHX doing gangbusters and evergreen titles keeping selling well (AC, YW, RT, and so on). Third parties are taking the lion's share of sw sales (Monster Strike seems to be doing quite well) which is a good sign for them, but also quite emblematic of how Nintendo didn't plan to release any relevant (1m+) software for the end of the year. Also, a lot of old titles are increasing a lot - it is always surprising to see this, every year. Wii U: Splatoon and SMM keep selling and showing how Nintendo can still develop appealing software on home platforms - Splatoon being bought by more than on third of Wii U owner says everything (and it's a new IP).
Sumikko Gurashi is based off a popular series of merchandise (no anime, no manga, just plushies, calendars, cups, etc.) and it seems quite popular among kids. Last year's game sold 100k, and the new one should not have any problem in reaching the same mark - it is a collection of mini-games and stories, quite simple and whimsical.
leatherhat
Member
I think Vita will end up having a much longer life than a system of its sales should because of multiplats with ps4 and NX. God Eater 3/Burst will likely be 4/Vita/NX.
Kresnik258
Member
Vita has managed to stave off what would've been a rather sharp YoY decline thanks almost solely to Minecraft. It's been the first evergreen title the console has had (maybe Minna no Golf but otherwise nothing else has come close) and pretty much managed to prop it up throughout most of the year.
Next year has some nice software titles, but I don't see much that'll keep hardware going. Things like Digimon; Miku; Toukiden etc. are going to sell to an existing audience. The only exciting thing happening for Vita next year is that Square Enix have seemed to realise it exists - so we'll have to see what Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy spin-offs and SaGa do for it.
With all that said, I agree with Leatherhat. For software, it's probably got a fair while left in it yet. I don't think it can support bigger games on its own, but as part of a multi-plat strategy it can keep going for a few more years.
EO hasn't even hit its peak yet but you won't be surprised to see it dying in the upcoming generation? So it would die without peaking?
The problem is SMT is nowhere close to the popularity of DQ and Atlus (or even Sega) is not SE.
Do we have any example of a series going from handheld to console/multi then become more popular in Japan or in the west?
Falcom seems to be doing fine with Kiseki.
Didn't Cold Steel sell worse than Blue?
This isn't inherently important to this thread, but worth posting.
Box office results for the weekend in Japan, December 19 - 20
The sequel outperformed the best opening by any Pokemon movie by over $1.5m and outdid it's predecesor by at least $2.5m, pretty crazy.
While Star Wars did more revenue, Yokai sold more tickets, which is the ranking used in Japan, Yokai sold 975k tickets, can't find data bout Star Wars.
So yeah, Yokai Watch isn't leaving any time soon.
Box office results for the weekend in Japan, December 19 - 20
- Star Wars: The Force Awakens: ¥1,168,936,984
- Yo-Kai Watch: Enma Daio to Itsutsu no Monogatari da Nyan! ¥993,163,186
The sequel outperformed the best opening by any Pokemon movie by over $1.5m and outdid it's predecesor by at least $2.5m, pretty crazy.
While Star Wars did more revenue, Yokai sold more tickets, which is the ranking used in Japan, Yokai sold 975k tickets, can't find data bout Star Wars.
So yeah, Yokai Watch isn't leaving any time soon.
theprodigy
Member
Why does Japan use tickets over revenue? gotta be different from everyone else or something
Jon Carter
Member
Ōkami;190127442 said:
Let us fight.
No?
Ao no Kiseki was 194k or so. Sen 1 was like 200k across PS3/Vita, and Sen 2 was about 195k across PS3/Vita. Not counting digital sales and Asian sales (Falcom said Asian sales for Sen 1 were about half of JP sales.) which the older PSP releases didn't really benefit from.
Why does Japan use tickets over revenue? gotta be different from everyone else or something
They use both. Rankings are usually by revenue, not tickets. The only reason anyone would say that is because ticket sales are the only thing that makes this an interesting headline, so it's what blog sites are repeating.
Jon Carter
Member
Why does Japan use tickets over revenue? gotta be different from everyone else or something
France also uses tickets sold. Don't know about other European and Asian countries.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Let us fight.
Remember that time people were saying he was the next Nintendo president ? fun times
manipulate
Member
Ōkami;190127442 said:
Is the next YW game announced for 3ds?