Perhaps you are right and I am greatly overestimating it, haha.
Oh well, I'll be interested to see what they plan on doing because I don't think they are under the illusion of getting much from the West early on at the least.
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Nomura Securities: NX will be unveiled in June and released October-November
- Thread starter dickroach
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Perhaps you are right and I am greatly overestimating it, haha.
Oh well, I'll be interested to see what they plan on doing because I don't think they are under the illusion of getting much from the West early on at the least.
I'm assuming the bets are on their own library. They *are* the primary Japanese publisher that still sells games in the West.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Theres is no Nintendo audience that only plays Jump&Runs and Zelda. Third party games will sell if they are good ports. Almost all ports for Wii U had been bad, released month or years late, lacked features and had been expensive.
ZombiU, from your point of view not fitting for a Nintendo audience, has sold hundreds of thousand, despite bad reviews. It sold probably not as much as Ubisoft hoped, but it sold very good for what it was and its reviews. Question: Had it sold millions with the late PS4/XOne/PC port because the audience is there? The port seemed to be a flop?
Games like Witcher/Fallout & Co. would sell on a Nintendo console no doubt about that.
Oh that I am sure of, as I said or thought I did anyway, I was just thinking they'd try to have as much of the Japanese software offerings as they can get as well to help bolster the software numbers/genres that are covered. It also gives them at least something of a cushion back at home.
I'd also hope they have some expansion plans for the west beyond Retro, if they ever want to start establish more of an identity for themselves in the west.
OrbitalBeard
Member
(This post assumes NX is a shared platform and all games will be playable on both handheld and home devices)
I'm sure few will agree with me, but I honestly think Nintendo can survive with little to no western third party support with NX, at least initially.
Zelda, 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Super Mario Maker DX, Mario Kart 9, Splatoon 2, New mainline Pokemon, Metroid, Fire Emblem, a version of Smash Bros., some new AAA Nintendo IPs, Monster Hunter 5, Dragon Quest XI, Yo-Kai Watch, Skylanders, etc.
If Nintendo can somehow launch at a competitive price and bombard the NX with these types of games during its first 18 months, I believe it will sell well enough for some western third parties to take notice. I actually think it's possible for Nintendo to publish an extremely large amount of key software titles during the first year and a half, if they have all teams working on games for this singular platform.
If Nintendo brings their A game and western third parties still refuse to support the platform in a meaningful way, then they never will.
I'm sure few will agree with me, but I honestly think Nintendo can survive with little to no western third party support with NX, at least initially.
Zelda, 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Super Mario Maker DX, Mario Kart 9, Splatoon 2, New mainline Pokemon, Metroid, Fire Emblem, a version of Smash Bros., some new AAA Nintendo IPs, Monster Hunter 5, Dragon Quest XI, Yo-Kai Watch, Skylanders, etc.
If Nintendo can somehow launch at a competitive price and bombard the NX with these types of games during its first 18 months, I believe it will sell well enough for some western third parties to take notice. I actually think it's possible for Nintendo to publish an extremely large amount of key software titles during the first year and a half, if they have all teams working on games for this singular platform.
If Nintendo brings their A game and western third parties still refuse to support the platform in a meaningful way, then they never will.
As I doubt Nintendo is going to start charging for their internet services, there's also a distinct lack of kick-backs (or anti-consumer bidding wars over slicing up DLC and game content) from that revenue stream. Which means that not only would most AAA-mega hits be getting ported to a smaller user base than the already established twins, but they'd also be seeing less returns. I just don't see much of an incentive.
I swear the AAA world in the west is like an iron mine inside of a collapsing sun.
If those new IPs seek out to cultivate an audience that will buy AAA western third party games, I fully agree.
Nintendo could survive without a lot of those companies, but it would depends on the product and how they compensate.
Me too! I always saw Overwatch as the kind of FPS Nintendo could have made with a proper western development arm.
You hit the nail on the head. When it comes to dedicated gaming platforms, there are two types of Japanese third-party games;
1. Very Japanese games that make most of their sales in their homeland. Ex: Shin Megami Tensei (mainline), Hatsune Miku, Dynasty Warriors, Yakuza
2. More neutral games that either sell equally well in both markets or better overseas. Ex: Final Fantasy, Souls-likes, Metal Gear Solid, Ace Combat.
The first won't make much of a difference as the Japanophile audience is niche. The second would help, except that the devs that are interested in making those types of games will prioritize platforms that are already established in the West (PC/PS/XB). Unless they can somehow sway these guys to their side, multiplats is the most they'll get.
Maybe they should partially fund a Ridge Racer reboot since they're buddy-buddy with Namco and don't have a realistic-ish racing series of their own, but even that series is mid tier at best.
Pokemaniac
Member
Forcing complete parity between handheld and console libraries would be a good way to scare away third parties. Some things just wouldn't scale well.
The way I see it playing out is that 90-95% of Nintendo's games will be playable on both. And while third parties will be encouraged to have their games work on both, the option can be presented to make games work on the NX Console only if they absolutely cannot scale their games down to the NX Handheld. Again, this is assuming the "shared platform with multiple form factors that share their games" thing pans out.
The NX Console selling GameCube numbers would be fine as long as the NX Handheld does most of the selling.
AcademicSaucer
Member
No Fifa or Madden is a deal breaker for many people tho, you would think Nintendo would atleast try to push for those games, pretty sad if thats not the case.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
And whats wrong with that? Yall want finger wag in a npd thread or something. I guess thats how people have fun these days though lol
OrbitalBeard
Member
Eh, I can't imagine NX will sell at that level, assuming it's sold in multiple form factors.
MHWilliams
Member
Corporate interest is also based on the perception of trust. EA makes games for the PS4 and Xbox One because it can trust that the audience it's building for are owners of those platforms. Skylanders and Disney Infinity is on Wii U for similar reasons.
That trust does not exist for Nintendo currently, because three (3.5?) generations of consoles have reinforced that belief.
Pretty much this.
Yep, their best bet is to try to get some of the developers that was making major PS4 titles to also make NX games.
Serenitynow
Member
Wii didn't do as well as it did because it had third party games. And I don't want to hear that Wii was a one-time and doesn't count. When people completely factor Wii out of the equation it blows my mind. Nintendo didn't just close their eyes and throw a dart. They came up with a new-concept that captivated the market. Now Kimishima is talking of a new concept again. We had Terry a few pages back saying his friends are second party devs who think NX is awesome and we'll all be surprised.
both serious and not serious in bringing that up
Am I saying NX will pull Wii numbers? No. But let's not put a sales cap on it before we know what Nintendo has up their sleeves, third parties be damned.
I think it was Nirolak that had a list of titles that were sure fire bets of not showing up on a Nintendo hardware, but Overwatch is something that NCL should work hard on getting....
...and another thing, Vena. You mentioned "someone at the higher end of the table.." I just realised that NoA is currently missing a CEO (RIP Iwata). I wonder if that is something that'd get addressed by Kimishima...
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The Wii created a new market - and Apple snatched it up.
I'm not saying they can't create another new market, but if their choices are going after the core or going after casual players, their better bet is the core. The casuals are getting their fix without having to buy dedicated gaming hardware.
Wii gamers became mobile gamers. Both audiences are an uphill battle, but one is more so than the other.
Serenitynow
Member
See, I don't think of it as two pools of people, casuals and hardcores, and Nintendo has to go after one more so than the other. They should create something that appeals to both groups. Nintendo always said Wii was for everybody, and while I enjoyed it immensely, it skewed casual in a lot of people's minds. There is a middle ground, and Nintendo can find success there with a new-concept. If they find a good amount of success, third parties will come. Wii got 5 Call of Duty games.
I don't think that's accurate at all. Apple snatched up DS gamers by the millions. You can see it in casual app sales and in the absolute decimation of Nintendo's handheld sales in the west. You can see it pretty much everywhere. Where there used to be kids playing DS' in restaurants, schools etc, now they play on their phones. People that bought a Wii for gaming either moved on to PS4/Xbox or simply never bought another console. I know tons of people whose only console ever was the Wii, and they'll more than likely never buy another.
I would assume a lot of those people either stopped gaming or stayed on their old devices rather than getting "snapped up by the millions".
3rd-parties started walking away long before the Wii U, we have to face the reality of the situation here. So it has nothing to do with the audience, considering the 100 million or so people they could have addressed with Wii and rarely ever bothered to, for a number of factors that have nothing to do with "the audience", this over-inflated 3rd-party boogeyman that people on forums and the media have made it out to be since the Gamecube era.
And you seem to have this sick hard-on for conflating "3rd-parties" with "Western 3rd-parties". If we're not addressing all of them, it's important to make that a bit more explicit, or we will constantly end up with cyclical arguments that never make forward momentum.
I think a lot of that has to do with 3rd-party publishers in Japan trying to follow the development trend in the market of AAA development, trying to compete for Western attention, changing the very nature of how they produced their games and, just as importantly, what games are produced.
I've long held the belief that part of why Nintendo has both stayed relevant and been the target of ire from several gamers is that Nintendo creates games more in the "single-A" world than the "AAA" world, a holdover from the Gamecube that it never quite shook off.
I'm personally not saying that's a bad thing, far from it. Lots of franchises were manipulated by publishers to fit the AAA model, but just as many were abandoned completely, with the very pointed exception of Nintendo. So perhaps the key to success for Japanese publishers on Nintendo hardware is to bring in that "single-A" development mindset again. Not to say there's anything against AAA games, I enjoy a good number of franchises in that space myself, but I think it's a space where there can be a great deal of success for many publishers.
Much like there are misconceptions about Nintendo's audience among publishers, the same can be said about Sony and Microsoft's, as the prevailing idea seems to be that unless it's a "mature" or "AAA" game, it won't find an audience.
Meanwhile, Nintendo console owners are starving for something to play and, due in part to Nintendo's own choices, publishers aren't feeding them those experiences.
My 2 cents on the matter, anyways.
Trust isn't as iron-clad in business as you make it sound. If Nintendo can move hardware units and give developers tools to make them that don't require back-pedalling or re-inventing the wheel in terms of their development strategy, they're not going to wait on it, they'll make the attempt.
Why do you think Ubisoft was there day one with Wii U? With exclusive core gamer content, no less? It's not as though the Wii gave them any indication that there was a market for that content to be well-received. By all accounts, far from it. If this is a discussion about trust, Nintendo would have had nothing right out of the gate instead of what support it did receive. That support rapidly evaporated when publishers knew that Wii U wouldn't even be able to sell Nintendo's games at the level they enjoy, let alone theirs.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The lack of devkits in developer's hands shouldn't really be that surprising. Again, Nintendo has already laid out their plans for the next couple of years. The NX is going to be at the center of a Nintendo ecosystem. Not a general gaming ecosystem.
That's a good way to cause franchise fatigue. You'd be playing 3 of all the major franchises by the end of the gen. If Nintendo was gonna go this route they'd need to expand their studios, especially in the west and dedicate them to new AAA IP.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
It's on February 2 (source). We could get more info/hints there. Mobile and the account system are my guesses for the biggest bits of information there, given that they'll be launching soon afterwards (including potentially Pokémon GO).
I imagine the biggest news will come from their fiscal year briefings, since that will look ahead to the upcoming year, and it's clear Nintendo's upcoming year should have a lot happening. I believe the financial estimates for the upcoming year get released then, and if Nintendo is launching new hardware before March 2017, we'll see it in their expectations. For the past two years, the fiscal year briefings occurred on May 7 and 8.
I'm also excited for the 76th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders that should happen post-E3 in June. If an NX blowout happens at E3, we'll probably get more insight into expectations, plans, and reasoning from that meeting. I'm excited for these next 6 months of Nintendo news.
Note: Since I don't really keep track of what gets talked about when at these events, please don't take my guesses too seriously.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
What are the 3 of the major franchises? That's a rhetorical question because it's not definitive. Nintendo has the most successful franchises of any publishers, and certainly bigger than three premier entities.
Expanding studios is another fallacy. All you need is to shell out money and have contract developers make games under your label. That's how the industry works. This is all determinant on how healthy the platform is, and how much money Nintendo is willing to invest on overall first-party development.
No I meant like your get three games in each franchise or more. 3 Mario's, 3 Zelda's, 3 DK's, 3 Kirby's, 3 Metroids, etc. In a 5-7 year span.
Pokemaniac
Member
Naturally. The last thing Nintendo needs to do at this point is to tell third parties that they don't want their games.
I don't really see it. Even with all of the games Nintendo has published this generation. There are still a bunch of notably absent IPs, such as F-Zero, Metroid, Advance Wars, etc. They have a lot of properties they can draw on, and increasing the diversity of their lineup can only help them. You also have to consider that their developers will be freed up to make new IPs. For example, based on what we know about the development team, it would appear that when Nintendo decided to develop Splatoon, it was in place of developing a Wii U Animal Crossing.
Contrary to popular belief, Nintendo has a lot more that 3 or 4 franchises to work with.
MHWilliams
Member
Nintendo has to show publishers and developers something to stand up and take notice of. They lack the trust in Nintendo's ability to draw in a mature audience and the only thing that will bring it back is sales and demographics. Take Western developers for example, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One support was practically a given, because publishers trusted Sony and Microsoft to build platforms that their audience would purchase. Nintendo has lost that. And part of Nintendo's issue is the chicken-egg dilemma, no games for those demographics and the publishers putting only half-hearted efforts means consumers perceive the platform as lesser and remain with Sony/MS.
Ubisoft had a solid time on the Wii. Just Dance has always proved amazingly strong for Ubisoft on the Wii. Still does, seeing as the November NPD had Just Dance 2016's best-selling platform being the Wii. Rabbids and Rayman are also great sellers on Nintendo platforms, so that's where the resources go.
So Ubisoft gave Nintendo a go, probably because Nintendo promised them a more traditional platform this time around with the Wii U. Let's look at the full force of their trust. Assassin's Creed: Black Flag was ported by 15 people within Ubisoft Quebec, while the primary developers continued work on the PS4/Xbox One versions.
Same deal with III, Ubisoft did it in-house, but it was a fraction of their effort, because again... they didn't believe in the platform. Here's AC3's animation director talking about the Wii U version, which the main development team had little to do with.
Watch_Dogs represents the last bit of their efforts on the Wii U. But again, the main development team didn't handle the game. Ubisoft Montreal did the PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, and Xbox One versions of the game. Wii U?
ZombiU is the only mature Wii U title they put significant resources behind. From a corporate standpoint, the rest was as half-assed as you can get and it still wasn't worth it.
Ubisoft likes Nintendo, for their family-friendly audience. That works well with certain games. But no, they have no trust in the Nintendo when it comes to mature rated titles. That's not a buddy-buddy thing, that's just the cold, hard facts.
If they had no trust in Nintendo for mature games selling, ZombiU should have never existed in the first place. The one example I brought up, you didn't even bother to address.
Again... if it's a matter of there being no trust in that content selling, why do any these games you listed exist AT ALL? It's still money out of pocket better spent on anything else if there's no faith that they'll sell in any meaningful way, and yet, they were there.
There's a large contradiction in your statement. A loss of trust means no faith, so no need to "test the market". So it's not a matter of trust at all.
i really don't give a shit at all as long as they make great games. the wii u was far better than the wii from a software library standpoint and it didn't even sell 20% the numbers the wii did.
i'm just talking from a sales perspective. cause it's fun.
no one could imagine the wii u selling as bad as it did either. I really think the appeal of a first party nintendo box is just getting weaker and weaker as time goes on. doesn't matter how cheap it is or how many great, exclusive games there are. it doesn't play the games people want. period. that's a bad thing.
MHWilliams
Member
Ubisoft lacked trust in Nintendo when it came to mature-rated titles. They threw out some products with minimal resources to see if perhaps things were different with the Wii U. I covered every major mature-rated game Ubisoft released. ZombiU is literally in the post you quoted and you have seemingly missed it.
I and others have tried to explain it to you and you don't get it. So I'm just going to leave it here. Carry on, good sir.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I think I'd characterize Ubisoft's actions with gambling and faith. If the Wii U were to have blown up, then the games they released would have had great returns on them. Red Steel's availability at launch and being part of Nintendo's marketing push for launch is probably the reason it sold over a million copies.
If Ubisoft continues their approach, they'll have something for the NX's launch. Depending on how much faith they have in the system, I'd guess they'll up their investment in the product(s) because their odds of finding success will be greater. If Ubisoft doesn't have anything at the NX home console launch, that says to me that either their philosophy has changed, they have zero faith in whatever product Nintendo is putting out, or they have some kind of grudge against Nintendo based on something in the past.
If Ubisoft continues their approach, they'll have something for the NX's launch. Depending on how much faith they have in the system, I'd guess they'll up their investment in the product(s) because their odds of finding success will be greater. If Ubisoft doesn't have anything at the NX home console launch, that says to me that either their philosophy has changed, they have zero faith in whatever product Nintendo is putting out, or they have some kind of grudge against Nintendo based on something in the past.
Super Wario
Banned
Nirolak reasoning is fair as usual and arkham report only confirms it.
But it was pretty obvious also earlier.
We got no leak and no comment at all.
The only reason why nobody even ever commented about NX is simply a complete lack of interest from western publisher.
Maybe we could see another wiiu initial support with lego or skylander because those games sold decently even on wiiu. Even a cod or an assassin are way less probable.
They dont leak non comment because they are not interested in a nintendo hw.
Different matter ffor japanese ones and in fact we already had Koei comment nx, SE pseudo annuncing games, Atlus suspiciously keeping etrian oddissey 5 console secret and so on...
Primarly because they are interested in a nintendo portable for domestic sales and possibly in anything that could rum japanese games in the west
But it was pretty obvious also earlier.
We got no leak and no comment at all.
The only reason why nobody even ever commented about NX is simply a complete lack of interest from western publisher.
Maybe we could see another wiiu initial support with lego or skylander because those games sold decently even on wiiu. Even a cod or an assassin are way less probable.
They dont leak non comment because they are not interested in a nintendo hw.
Different matter ffor japanese ones and in fact we already had Koei comment nx, SE pseudo annuncing games, Atlus suspiciously keeping etrian oddissey 5 console secret and so on...
Primarly because they are interested in a nintendo portable for domestic sales and possibly in anything that could rum japanese games in the west
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I think the times where nintendo sends out early devkits to a bunch of western studios are generally over.Now no one go scream the sky is falling.... but around thanksgiving I was chatting with two friends who work at my old studio (a Sr Designer and a Lead Env Artist, SO seasoned vets but clearly not leadership) about the Nintendo NX... And neither even knew it was a thing
So at the very least Nintendo has not shown it to all that many westen devs at that point. Or my friends are for once in their lives honoring their NDA over their FrienDA
A precious few (outside of japan) will get early devkits. The rest will get theirs close to launch, with the rest of the industry. Why? Because the launch lineup, as shown by 3ds and wiiU launches, can make or break your platform (3ds being an example of a platform that overcame that with great effort). And launch lineups do not materialize by empty promises and good intentions. Examples like Ubisoft (who are traditionally looked upon as a successful western developer on nintendo platforms) who were meant to deliver two wiiU launch titles but delivered one, after much ado about the other, and the ultra-meh western 3ds launch lineup are telling.
Early (read: close-to-a-year before launch) devkits are precious artifacts. Not because they are traditionally expensive, but because having them sit in some storage room while marketing debates if a game is worth the effort on a new platform is the definition of precious opportunity wasted. You pick your launch 3rd party must-haves and send the kits to those parties, under a very clear contractual obligation (involving your material participation, if necessary). The rest comes from your own stables. If you ensure a solid launch push, the rest of industry will look favourably at your platform. If you fail to do that, even ready 3rd-party titles might sit unshipped.
Hey man, how's it going?
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey. Its 2012 all over again!
Big Green Anus
Member
I'm trying to understand why people are responding to this?
He's the one who leaked some big WiiU stuff back in the day.
Judging from this post, ideaman has provided information that turned out to be correct in the past?
Arkam blowing up the thread again like four years ago, lol.
I'll use his advice for not panicking. It's not uncommon for industry peeps being out of the loop regarding the latest developments if they are busy with getting their projects done on time. I'll just wait and see.
I'll use his advice for not panicking. It's not uncommon for industry peeps being out of the loop regarding the latest developments if they are busy with getting their projects done on time. I'll just wait and see.
Still like how you can turn a thread upside down Arkam 
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