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[joecanada]

The ps4 was as powerful as it could have possibly been for $399 at launch. We have seen what happens when consoles launch above that price and it isnt pretty. I mean you do realize Sony is a business and the goal of business is to make money right ?
You are correct, one online service has had more issues this gen and it isnt psn. Especially the last few months. Spouting the old myth about xbox live being "factually better" is nothing but hyperbolic fanboy bullshit.
Regarding ps+ games vs xbox live gold games is entirely subjective.
Both companies controllers have had issues this gen. There is a long running thread here about the xbox ones controllers continually disconnecting. I bought an xbox one in October 2015 and when I went to play the open beta for the division the left bumper was stuck and had to be fixed. After less than ten total hours of use. And this was one of the revised controllers.

ya I still believe Sony loves though pushing the envelope of electronics. I feel that they loved ps3 as much as some of us did, hell I used it as my primary pc for a while. They really took pride in the bluray, wifi, blutooth, media player, bc, and most of us who bought the phat ps3 loved it too.
But ultimately it was too expensive for the masses, and they had to take a wash on it. I feel this ps4K is going back to their desire to keep up with technology, they want VR, 4K, high fidelity games, and they feel that rather than releasing a 599 system this is the way to do it.
So 599 up front or upgrade every 3 years at 399, both sound like good options to me, I'm glad they aren't just sticking to the plain old boring majority. because nothing feels worse than having something you just wish could be more (like my plastic ugly ps3 I had to get after the phat).

 

[Negotiator]

1) The comparison with PCs is flawed.

PC = open system, upgradeable (sockets, expansion slots)
Console = closed system, non-upgradeable (like a 3DS/New 3DS or an iPhone 6/6s)

Would you consider Nintendo 64 a "PC" just because it had a memory expansion slot?

Thankfully we don't have this anymore (soldered memory chips are always better/faster).

We also didn't have internet back then to denounce N64 fragmentation (Majora's Mask, DK64, Perfect Dark require 8MB of RAM).

2) The PS4 will still be supported until the end of the decade. Sony home consoles are known for having longterm support.

3) I was really pissed off when I found out that the PS4 wouldn't support older steering wheels. I don't remember any community outrage back then. Why guys, why??? Is it because Gran Turismo hasn't come out yet?

Eventually I was forced to sell my Logitech G27 at a really good price (fortunately) and get a G29 at a discounted price.

I did NOT have any official choice to keep my old wheel (GIMX takes too much time & effort), while now you will still be able to keep your PS4.

4) I'm really annoyed that we still haven't gotten friend notifications (where's that fucking 3.50 FW?) and game folders (my PS3 has that).

My point is that I'm getting tired of consoles starting from a clean slate when next-gen comes out.

I love the fact that that we will now have the same OS across PS4/PS4.5 (and possibly PS5). Not to mention the same DS4 controllers as well.

5) BC has always been difficult due to different architectures (Cell/RSX -> Jaguar/Radeon).

Now we will be able to have BC and there will be no need for remasters!

6) If the new console is worthy-enough (guaranteed 1080p60, octa-core Zen, 4 TF Polaris, 16GB GDDR5X/HBM2, 1080p60 PVR at $499), then I'll just sell my PS4 in the future. I've gotten my money's worth and I haven't even played Uncharted 4 yet.

7) Don't just blame Sony (or even MS), since it takes two to tango. AMD wants iterative consoles as much as Sony/MS do.

AMD is in a dire financial situation, so signing a couple of multi-billion dollar contracts for designing another round of semi-custom APUs gives them some air to breathe.

8) We won't have a new console every 1-2 years. That's just too little for major technological breakthroughs.

4-year cycles are acceptable, IMHO. We also need major die shrinks for that (28 -> 14 -> 7nm).

9) Nobody's holding you from going back to PC gaming. If you enjoy fiddling with *.dll files, testing beta non-WHQL drivers for newer games, having random crashes, *.exe files not starting due to weird errors and stuff like that, that's your prerogative.

I enjoy consoles because of: 1) Exclusives (good luck playing Uncharted 4/TLOU2 on your shiny new PC), 2) Plug'n'play (self-explanatory), 3) Physical media (I know many people who hate digital-only games), 4) Friends/Community/Ecosystem.

10) Code to the metal already exists in iOS devices thanks to the Metal API.

If you agree that Apple offers decent optimization, then why wouldn't ICE team be able to do the same??? We are talking about 2 hardware targets only (PSVR complicates things a bit, though). PC gaming has literally dozens of possible hardware configurations.

On top of that, "code to the metal" is not meant to be taken literally these days.

I'm not sure if modern Radeon GPUs accept assembly opcodes with Mantle/DX12/GNM, but I know for a fact that modern x86 CPUs (since the Pentium Pro/II at least) do not execute x86 opcodes natively, since they break them down into smaller RISC micro-ops.

Yes, your x86 CPU is a camouflaged RISC CPU (that's why great 90s RISC CPUs such as the DEC Alpha became obsolete) with a CISC/x86 frontend (it's called microcode/uCode decoder). There are over 1000 x86 instructions these days and it's technically/financially impossible to implement all of them natively at the transistor level.

11) What I don't like is that game dev cycles are longer in this gen (understandable due to increased production values). Lots of delays and studios going the way of dodo.

For example, what if they announce TLOU2 in 2017 and it gets delayed until 2018? Do you get a PS4.5 to play it? What if PS5 rumors start in 2018? This is a complicated issue that cannot be solved easily.

12) I still have the same smartphone for the last 2 years and I'll keep it another 2 years at least. Just because a new one comes out every year, it doesn't mean that you should buy it, unless your current one does not fit your needs anymore.

13) There's a lot of hypocrisy from guys who don't mind Nintendo abandoning Wii U after 4 years and saying that they will get NX day 1 or PC gamers who spend $400-800 every 2 years for a GPU upgrade.

14) I remember tons of folks getting a 2nd console during the last generation due to YLOD/RROD respectively. What's the difference? You paid twice for the same console (there's no performance increase between PS3 60GB and PS3 Slim 120GB), just because you wanted to play some exclusives. I didn't see anyone boycotting Sony or MS, especially Sony that still has an awful 1-year warranty policy (IIRC, 1-year only is illegal in the EU).

15) If Sony squanders their strong momentum in this generation, then we may get a better PS+ line-up in the future.

Now feel free to attack me!

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

I agree unless something happens we are hitting that wall rather fast .
And it going to be harder and harder for consoles to get more power because of size , heat , price and power consumption .

Efficiency is not a bad goal for now, but theres definitely not going to be a net growth in computing power until quantum (or whatever) tech matures. Then we'll be playing with power.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

1) The comparison with PCs is flawed.

PC = open system, upgradeable (sockets, expansion slots)
Console = closed system, non-upgradeable (like a 3DS/New 3DS or an iPhone 6/6s)

Would you consider Nintendo 64 a "PC" just because it had a memory expansion slot?

Thankfully we don't have this anymore (soldered memory chips are always better/faster).

We also didn't have internet back then to denounce N64 fragmentation (Majora's Mask, DK64, Perfect Dark require 8MB of RAM).

2) The PS4 will still be supported until the end of the decade. Sony home consoles are known for having longterm support.

3) I was really pissed off when I found out that the PS4 wouldn't support older steering wheels. I don't remember any community outrage back then. Why guys, why??? Is it because Gran Turismo hasn't come out yet?

Eventually I was forced to sell my Logitech G27 at a really good price (fortunately) and get a G29 at a discounted price.

I did NOT have any official choice to keep my old wheel (GIMX takes too much time & effort), while now you will still be able to keep your PS4.

4) I'm really annoyed that we still haven't gotten friend notifications (where's that fucking 3.50 FW?) and game folders (my PS3 has that).

My point is that I'm getting tired of consoles starting from a clean slate when next-gen comes out.

I love the fact that that we will now have the same OS across PS4/PS4.5 (and possibly PS5). Not to mention the same DS4 controllers as well.

5) BC has always been difficult due to different architectures (Cell/RSX -> Jaguar/Radeon).

Now we will be able to have BC and there will be no need for remasters!

6) If the new console is worthy-enough (guaranteed 1080p60, octa-core Zen, 4 TF Polaris, 16GB GDDR5X/HBM2 at $499), then I'll just sell my PS4 in the future. I've gotten my money's worth and I haven't even played Uncharted 4 yet.

7) Don't just blame Sony (or even MS), since it takes two to tango. AMD wants iterative consoles as much as Sony/MS do.

AMD is in a dire financial situation, so signing a couple of multi-billion dollar contracts for designing another round of semi-custom APUs gives them some air to breathe.

8) We won't have a new console every 1-2 years. That's just too little for major technological breakthroughs.

4-year cycles are acceptable, IMHO. We also need major die shrinks for that (28 -> 14 -> 7nm).

9) Nobody's holding you from going back to PC gaming. If you enjoy fiddling with *.dll files, testing beta non-WHQL drivers for newer games, having random crashes, *.exe files not starting due to weird errors and stuff like that, that's your prerogative.

I enjoy consoles because of: 1) Exclusives (good luck playing Uncharted 4/TLOU2 on your shiny new PC), 2) Plug'n'play (self-explanatory), 3) Physical media (I know many people who hate digital-only games), 4) Friends/Community/Ecosystem.

10) Code to the metal already exists in iOS devices thanks to the Metal API.

If you agree that Apple offers decent optimization, then why wouldn't ICE team be able to do the same??? We are talking about 2 hardware targets only (PSVR complicates things a bit, though). PC gaming has literally dozens of possible hardware configurations.

On top of that, "code to the metal" is not meant to be taken literally these days.

I'm not sure if modern Radeon GPUs accept assembly opcodes with Mantle/DX12/GNM, but I know for a fact that modern x86 CPUs (since the Pentium Pro/II at least) do not execute x86 opcodes, since they break them down into smaller RISC micro-ops.

Yes, your x86 is a camouflaged RISC CPU (that's why great 90s RISC CPUs such as the DEC Alpha became obsolete) with a CISC/x86 frontend (it's called microcode/uCode decoder). There are over 1000 x86 instructions these days and it's technically/financially impossible to implement all of them natively at the transistor level.

11) What I don't like is that game dev cycles are longer in this gen (understandable due to increased production values). Lots of delays and studios going the way of dodo.

For example, what if they announce TLOU2 in 2017 and it gets delayed until 2018? Do you get a PS4.5 to play it? What if PS5 rumors start in 2018? This is a complicated issue that cannot be solved easily.

12) I still have the same smartphone for the last 2 years and I'll keep it another 2 years at least. Just because a new one comes out every year, it doesn't mean that you should buy it, unless your current one does not fit your needs anymore.

13) There's a lot of hypocrisy from guys who don't mind Nintendo abandoning Wii U after 4 years and saying that they will get NX day 1 or PC gamers who spend $400-800 every 2 years for a GPU upgrade.

14) I remember tons of folks getting a 2nd console during the last generation due to YLOD/RROD respectively. What's the difference? You paid twice for the same console (there's no performance increase between PS3 60GB and PS3 Slim 120GB), just because you wanted to play some exclusives. I didn't see anyone boycotting Sony or MS, especially Sony that still has an awful 1-year warranty policy (IIRC, 1-year only is illegal in the EU).

15) If Sony squanders their strong momentum in this generation, then we may get a better PS+ line-up in the future.

Now feel free to attack me!

Well.... There it is.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Microsoft couldn't at $500.

Well they fucked up royally (easy to say with 20 20 hindsight) by using ESram + ddr3

esram eats up tons of die space so despite ms dedicated less space on their apu for the gpu they still had a bigger chip than the ps4 (so more expensive)

that and they included the kinect 2.0 ofcourse...

Sony didn't care if they had to settle for 4GB ram if the vram density doubling didn't happen in time for launch (it did, so they got 8GB) so they went with GDDR5, which meant they didn't have to throw away half their apu die for ESRAM

So yeah, ms not being able to for 500 dollars has nothing to do with the merits of the hardware and pricing choices sony made.

Sony have said that the ps4 is not sold at a loss (so break even or a profit), so it isn't subsidised like previous consoles were.

By that measure PS2 should have had the same innards as the xbox right? Because that console along with PS1 showed it didn't mean shit that it didn't have the latest and greatest. Developers still made games that were amazing. And sony wouldn't be where they are without those choices they made for hardware.

I see no difference between how sony built the PS4 compared to PS2. They got decent yields on the chips, and the dvd drive for PS2. Same goes for PS4 with GDDR5 chips being at a really good price.

Nintendo, and Sony have shown in the past you don't need top of the line to make a game that will connect with consumers. ANd that is the goal. Them possibly being in the market to make yearly or by yearly console refreshes goes away from that very philosophy.

The OG xbox released a year and a half later, ofcourse it was much more powerful. Just like how this ps4.5 releases later and is more powerful.

By the time they released sony already had all the marketshare (and behold , the next gen ms released first and grabbed more marketshare than sony)

 

[SmokedMeat]

Consider that the original xbox, the xbox 360, the ps2 (and ofc the ps3, but for the wrong reasons) was sold at a loss and that the ps4 wasn't.

The Wii opened a lot of eyes. Whereas before it was build a powerful machine, and take a hit on hardware, it's now about making money on the hardware as well.

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

ya I still believe Sony loves though pushing the envelope of electronics. I feel that they loved ps3 as much as some of us did, hell I used it as my primary pc for a while. They really took pride in the bluray, wifi, blutooth, media player, bc, and most of us who bought the phat ps3 loved it too.
But ultimately it was too expensive for the masses, and they had to take a wash on it. I feel this ps4K is going back to their desire to keep up with technology, they want VR, 4K, high fidelity games, and they feel that rather than releasing a 599 system this is the way to do it.
So 599 up front or upgrade every 3 years at 399, both sound like good options to me, I'm glad they aren't just sticking to the plain old boring majority. because nothing feels worse than having something you just wish could be more (like my plastic ugly ps3 I had to get after the phat).

I truly believe the (expensive) OG PS3 deserves a lot more love than it gets, in retrospect. A fine machine, still playing mine.

 

[EatinOlives]

9) Nobody's holding you from going back to PC gaming. If you enjoy fiddling with *.dll files, testing beta non-WHQL drivers for newer games, having random crashes, *.exe files not starting due to weird errors and stuff like that, that's your prerogative.

Yes, people play on PC because of fiddling with these things :rolleyes

Consoles haven't been "plug and play" for a longass time. Put a new game disc in, hooray you get to wait while you game downloads 10Gbs in updates. Shut down your console for any considerable period of time, hooray you get to wait while your console downloads firmware updates for the next half hour. And if it's a recent update, there's a nonzero chance it breaks some shit.

The experiences are obviously not equivalent. You do have to put in a little more elbow grease on PC, but by and large this whole thing about you having to "fiddle with .dll files" is completely exaggerated. People like to proclaim you have to deal with system-level issues on PC every day when it's really not true.

 

[Dynasty8]

If this is in fact real and will allow me to play FFXV and upcoming games in 1080p 60FPS....I'd buy preorder one today.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

While I'm personally excited about the PS4K, I also wouldn't mind if this backlash causes Sony to re-think and back off from this plan, while MS goes ahead and launches more powerful hardware. It'd be interesting to watch the US sales trends of 3rd party software over time broken down by platform. While I'm sure many would stay with their PS4, I also know that there is a market segment that will want better performing 3rd party console games if they are available.

Has anyone made the 'should be called PS432x CD' yet?

Yes, many times, but it isn't really a good joke since the PS4K is not going to be an add-on peripheral but a new version of the console with the additional power already inside the case. A more accurate joke would be "should be called the PS4 Neptune"

 

[Obliterator]

Not that I'm doubting the veracity of the original info posted here but no other source has as of yet backed this info correct? Thread is huge so I may have missed it

 

[Melchiah]

The single, most important reason to me is this. I can't play Uncharted, GT or God of War on a PC, no matter how more logical it would be to build one.

PC has way, way more exclusives that you may love too if you tried

So, what PC exclusives are there, that are like the games (s)he mentioned? To my knowledge most the PC exclusives are MMOs, strategy games and indies, that's not really the same if you like the games Sony makes.

 

[Negotiator]

Yes, people play on PC because of fiddling with these things :rolleyes

Consoles haven't been "plug and play" for a longass time. Put a new game disc in, hooray you get to wait while you game downloads 10Gbs in updates. Shut down your console for any considerable period of time, hooray you get to wait while your console downloads firmware updates for the next half hour. And if it's a recent update, there's a nonzero chance it breaks some shit.

The experiences are obviously not equivalent. You do have to put in a little more elbow grease on PC, but by and large this whole thing about you having to "fiddle with .dll files" is completely exaggerated. People like to proclaim you have to deal with system-level issues on PC every day when it's really not true.

I also have a PC and I know first hand that it's not as plug'n'play as modern consoles are.

I never said that the PS4 is as plug'n'play as Atari VCS was. It's not meant to be. Times change.

I don't mind updates (they're not even mandatory if you sign out) as much as fiddling with *.dll files (i.e. old games that require Glide wrappers to play on a modern PC).

Also, what about totally broken ports like Batman Arkham Knight or Gears of War remaster? It's not just old games...

 

[joecanada]

I truly believe the (expensive) OG PS3 deserves a lot more love than it gets, in retrospect. A fine machine, still playing mine.

yes as I said I went without a pc at all for about 2 years . You could criticize Sony for it's weird architecture or maybe it was expensive for your taste but it annoys me to no end when people call it a "ripoff" totally untrue.
It was a great multimedia device, it did everything you would ever expect from a simple console, and still has things the ps4 doesn't .... but as per usual the masses had spoken and they had to take a bath on it.

now we get incremental upgrades instead of a launch 599 system which is okay too, I always wait 6 months or so for new stuff to break in and it works out good.

again I just don't think they can bear only having the basic ps4 out with 4K coming up and VR and all the rest. can't blame them, I'll keep mine for another year or more but it will be nice to upgrade eventually.

 

[Chobel]

Not that I'm doubting the veracity of the original ibfo posted here but no other source has as of yet backed this info correct? Thread is huge so I may have missed it

I wouldn't say zoetis backed it, but he did say this:

sli, and there wont be a generational leap this is pure for 4k output.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yes, people play on PC because of fiddling with these things :rolleyes

Consoles haven't been "plug and play" for a longass time. Put a new game disc in, hooray you get to wait while you game downloads 10Gbs in updates. Shut down your console for any considerable period of time, hooray you get to wait while your console downloads firmware updates for the next half hour. And if it's a recent update, there's a nonzero chance it breaks some shit.

The experiences are obviously not equivalent. You do have to put in a little more elbow grease on PC, but by and large this whole thing about you having to "fiddle with .dll files" is completely exaggerated. People like to proclaim you have to deal with system-level issues on PC every day when it's really not true.

Consoles are still plug and play .
Having some updates don't change that .
Hell most consumer electronics have updates in this day and age .
Put your system in sleep mode and updates become no problem .

Now i am not saying things hard to do on PC anyone can it not hard .
But consoles are still very much plug and play .

 

[Omadahl]

You're glad you skipped video games? Okay.

I have a PC. There was one game that's console exclusive that I almost caved for: Bloodborne, and I didn't do it.

 

[crash-14]

You're late if you didn't already sell your PS4.

 

[SneakyStephan]

The Wii opened a lot of eyes. Whereas before it was build a powerful machine, and take a hit on hardware, it's now about making money on the hardware as well.

True, people still buy them all the same. Still sucks to get much less value for your money hardware wise.

I also have a PC and I know first hand that it's not as plug'n'play as modern consoles are.

I never said that the PS4 is as plug'n'play as Atari VCS was. It's not meant to be. Times change.

I don't mind updates (they're not even mandatory if you sign out) as much as fiddling with *.dll files (i.e. old games that require Glide wrappers to play on a modern PC).

Also, what about totally broken ports like Batman Arkham Knight or Gears of War remaster? It's not just old games...

Did you just spin 20 years of backwards compatibility as a negative?


I've played arkham knight, it's absolutely pathetic by pc standards but I locked it to 30 fps and it still looks better (and runs at 100 percent locked 30 with no drops) than the ps4 version. Even the worst scenario on pc still gives a better experience than the console version.


This is WAY off topic and pointless btw.

I completely agree with all the other points you made in that long post before (except nr 9) , that kind of disingenuous shitting on pc only serves to derail the entire thread

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

Yes, many times, but it isn't really a good joke since the PS4K is not going to be an add-on peripheral but a new version of the console with the additional power already inside the case. A more accurate joke would be "should be called the PS4 Neptune"

I never claimed to be funny, just a long arsed thread to go through every comment.

 

[MUnited83]

I also have a PC and I know first hand that it's not as plug'n'play as modern consoles are.

I never said that the PS4 is as plug'n'play as Atari VCS was. It's not meant to be. Times change.

I don't mind updates (they're not even mandatory if you sign out) as much as fiddling with *.dll files (i.e. old games that require Glide wrappers to play on a modern PC).

Also, what about totally broken ports like Batman Arkham Knight or Gears of War remaster? It's not just old games...

I mean, if you want to talk about "broken ports", then you can find a crapload of them on the PS4 too. And while Arkham Knight is in a sorry state, it's still the best version of the game as long as you have the required hardware.

 

[rjinaz]

Yes, people play on PC because of fiddling with these things :rolleyes

Consoles haven't been "plug and play" for a longass time. Put a new game disc in, hooray you get to wait while you game downloads 10Gbs in updates. Shut down your console for any considerable period of time, hooray you get to wait while your console downloads firmware updates for the next half hour. And if it's a recent update, there's a nonzero chance it breaks some shit.

The experiences are obviously not equivalent. You do have to put in a little more elbow grease on PC, but by and large this whole thing about you having to "fiddle with .dll files" is completely exaggerated. People like to proclaim you have to deal with system-level issues on PC every day when it's really not true.

Is it really the same though? Maybe pc gaming has changed since I was familiar with it. I put in my disc. It tells me an update is available. I update it. I don't need to worry if anything is compatible, high enough specs, if there is something specific to my computer/drives that need to be updated.

It's pretty simple with console gaming which is a large part of the appeal. I have to do nothing on my own but press a button prompt.

 

[Obliterator]

I wouldn't say zoetis backed it, but he did say this:

sli...uh huh

Lol

 

[zackmorris]

Sony is basically asking me to spend 1800€ in the coming months, if I want to get the best Playstation experience.

PSVR, 500€ for me because I need the bundle.
Ps4k 400-500€
In order for the Ps4k to make sense I need a 4k TV, and 4k TV only make sense when the have HDR, and I haven't seen one of those for less than 900€.

And I'm sure that like 95% of the Ps4 userbase is in the same camp.
Nobody has a 4k TV and most people don't have a Playstation cam or move controllers.

This will split the userbase and it will hurt Ps4 sales, at the same time the required investment for Ps4k is too high to appeal to as big of a market as the Ps4s appeals to.


I'm excited for it, but right now I can't imagine how Sony is going to make it a success.

How? PSVR works fine with the current PS4. If you don't own a 4k TV, than why do you feel like you would need to get a "PS4K" and a 4K TV? Until they say that certain games will ONLY work on the PS4K, than why is there any rush to upgrade? I feel like there is still plenty of room for the normal PS4 to continue to improve with the performance of it's games.

 

[bitbydeath]

Put a new game disc in, hooray you get to wait while you game downloads 10Gbs in updates. Shut down your console for any considerable period of time, hooray you get to wait while your console downloads firmware updates for the next half hour. And if it's a recent update, there's a nonzero chance it breaks some shit.

PS4 doesn't have these problems.
You wait 30secs for the first part to copy and play. Patches and firmware download in the background.

 

[Gamezone]

4K Blu-ray driver means bigger discs right? 50 GB discs are getting pretty slim, and publishers are forcing us to download huge files because of that.

 

[Negotiator]

Did you just spin 20 years of backwards compatibility as a negative?

I've played arkham knight, it's absolutely pathetic by pc standards but I locked it to 30 fps and it still looks better (and runs at 100 percent locked 30 with no drops) than the ps4 version. Even the worst scenario on pc still gives a better experience than the console version.

This is WAY off topic and pointless btw.

I completely agree with all the other points you made in that long post before (except nr 9) , that kind of disingenuous shitting on pc only serves to derail the entire thread

I'm not shitting on anything and I'm sorry if you feel like that.

Btw, I write all my posts from my PC and not from a console browser.

I just think it's ironic to see die hard console gamers to "threaten" that they'll go back to PC gaming, even though they know what that means... sure, some games are as easy as clicking download on Steam, but not all games are like that.

 

[Papacheeks]

Well they fucked up royally (easy to say with 20 20 hindsight) by using ESram + ddr3

esram eats up tons of die space so despite ms dedicated less space on their apu for the gpu they still had a bigger chip than the ps4 (so more expensive)

that and they included the kinect 2.0 ofcourse...

Sony didn't care if they had to settle for 4GB ram if the vram density doubling didn't happen in time for launch (it did, so they got 8GB) so they went with GDDR5, which meant they didn't have to throw away half their apu die for ESRAM

So yeah, ms not being able to for 500 dollars has nothing to do with the merits of the hardware and pricing choices sony made.

Sony have said that the ps4 is not sold at a loss (so break even or a profit), so it isn't subsidised like previous consoles were.



The OG xbox released a year and a half later, ofcourse it was much more powerful. Just like how this ps4.5 releases later and is more powerful.

By the time they released sony already had all the marketshare (and behold , the next gen ms released first and grabbed more marketshare than sony)

My point was Sony could have gone with something more robust if they wanted to. That market share that xb360 got was slowly eroded as time went on. But because of what MS had for development tools third party games on average looked and ran better. MS could have gone with the same to similar config as PS4, but opted for something different because of their approach.

ANd even though IQ wise a lot of their games don't all measure up, we still are getting great games from them.

And since PS2 was the weakest back then people didn't seem to give a shit. Games are what sell a console. Wii had really weak hardware and could have opted for something close to 360 but decided against it in favor of a expierence that would be about how you interact. So again, it came down to software, and Wii sports, Mario Galaxy kind of changed the way people viewed controller mechanics, and interaction.

Sega genesis wasn't as good as snes spec wise, yet sonic 2, mortal kombat, street fighter ecco, were fine and everyone loved playing.

Tech doesn't move this industry GAMES do, and always have. You think the genesis hardware being inferior to it's arcade counter part held back all those copies of after burner, altered beast etc?

 

[Marty Chinn]

4K Blu-ray driver means bigger discs right? 50 GB discs are getting pretty slim, and publishers are forcing us to download huge files because of that.

Not going to happen if they expect them to still work on the PS4.

 

[Negotiator]

I mean, if you want to talk about "broken ports", then you can find a crapload of them on the PS4 too. And while Arkham Knight is in a sorry state, it's still the best version of the game as long as you have the required hardware.

AC Unity is the most egregious example I can think of a console game, I'll give you that, but you know very well that that game needed DX12/GNM badly, not DX11/GNMX.

Jaguar is not meant to handle so many draw calls/NPCs... especially on a single core vs 6-7 cores.

AC Unity was also broken on PC, but you have brute force to compensate for poor coding there, so yeah... not every likes the brute force mentality, though. That's why we need to migrate from DX11/GNMX/OpenGL to DX12/GNM/Vulkan/Metal etc.

 

[Freiya]

WOw, and plenty of evidence brought up by vcc and myself on how something similar was tried with N3DS and in the past with sega that ultimately did not end well for one of them.
For the record I'm neither jealous or ignorant just been around the block with consoles, pc for 25-30 some odd years. There's nothing in console market that proves this will be successful and a positive influence on the industry.

Even if it sells well out the gate, you fall into a trap that when you announce your next console people will not be so quick to early adopt as they will just wait for refresh. And early adopters are the life blood of each generation.

Forward and backward compatibility makes any argument you could possibly have moot. Why do you care if early adopters buy it or not? I'm a ps4 and xb1 day one early adopter and I'm not silly enough to think that should have anything to do with anything when we are talking 3 years after the fact. As an early adopter I am excited by this news and I will buy it on day one.

You know why I'm excited? because there is no reason not to be! especially if I'm willing to pay money for new hardware. Even if I wasn't willing I'd still not have a problem, why? it's simple really. Nothing would be changing for me anyway so why would I need to hate or be upset?

 

[Papacheeks]

Forward and backward compatibility makes any argument you could possibly have moot. Why do you care if early adopters buy it or not? I'm a ps4 and xb1 day one early adopter and I'm not silly enough to think that should have anything to do with anything when we are talking 3 years after the fact. As an early adopter I am excited by this news and I will buy it on day one.

You know why I'm excited? because there is no reason not to be! especially if I'm willing to pay money for new hardware. Even if I wasn't willing I'd still not have a problem, why? it's simple really. Nothing would be changing for me anyway so why would I need to hate or be upset?

Good for you. I for one being as old as I am, have seen companies go down this road big or small, and if not tempered correctly, can lead to disastrous results. Notice how I talk not in the now but more down the road pretense.

And just because you accept it doesn't mean the masses that are not tech heads or on neogaf will. Remember the DRM debacle? People were not ready for it. I don't think people are ready for this on a mass scale that's my whole point. And if people reject this or if after reveal and the die hard people buy these things and time goes on, will the people on the fence buy PS5 or whatever refresh follows?

I care about the future not the now. Sega of Japan cared to much about the now too much that it killed them as a console company. And it seems that's possibly where Sony specifically is heading.

 

[Freiya]

Good for you. I for one being as old as I am, have seen companies go down this road big or small, and if not tempered correctly, can lead to disastrous results. Notice how I talk not in the now but more down the road pretense.

And just because you accept it doesn't mean the masses that are not tech heads or on neogaf will. Remember the DRM debacle? People were not ready for it. I don't think people are ready for this on a mass scale that's my whole point. And if people reject this or if after reveal and the die hard people buy these things and time goes on, will the people on the fence buy PS5 or whatever refresh follows?

I care about the future not the now. Sega of Japan cared to much about the now too much that it killed them as a console company. And it seems that's possibly where Sony specifically is heading.

You keep saying all this but nothing is changing for people in the long run other than another option that they didn't have before. How is another option a bad thing? especially when said option doesn't negatively affect anyone else and in fact serves a segment of the market that actually does exist. Which is evident by the fact that lots of people here want this to happen. I honestly feel like your post is full of hot air and you are just concerned for no real reason at all. You are just fighting change for no reason even when there are no real negative effects.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Is it really the same though? Maybe pc gaming has changed since I was familiar with it. I put in my disc. It tells me an update is available. I update it. I don't need to worry if anything is compatible, high enough specs, if there is something specific to my computer/drives that need to be updated.

It's pretty simple with console gaming which is a large part of the appeal. I have to do nothing on my own but press a button prompt.

These days games auto update in the background, you'll never even know it's happening. I haven't played dota 2 in a year but I could click it right now and be in the matchmaking queue in 10seconds (despite there having been many updates and several big patches since I last played). Haven't played rocket league in 6 months but I could click it right now and be playing (man they did such a good job making it fast to get into a match from the main menu, I love it) in 10seconds.

Steam and digital distribution isn't all sunshine and lollipops (rip game ownership for starters :\) but it's crazy convenient.

I hear the ps4 is pretty good at auto updating and fast installs (and that the xbox one sucks at fast installs), which is good, because my ps3 is terrible at it and it's the main reason why I never play on it anymore.

My point was Sony could have gone with something more robust if they wanted to. That market share that xb360 got was slowly eroded as time went on. But because of what MS had for development tools third party games on average looked and ran better. MS could have gone with the same to similar config as PS4, but opted for something different because of their approach.

ANd even though IQ wise a lot of their games don't all measure up, we still are getting great games from them.

And since PS2 was the weakest back then people didn't seem to give a shit. Games are what sell a console. Wii had really weak hardware and could have opted for something close to 360 but decided against it in favor of a expierence that would be about how you interact. So again, it came down to software, and Wii sports, Mario Galaxy kind of changed the way people viewed controller mechanics, and interaction.

Sega genesis wasn't as good as snes spec wise, yet sonic 2, mortal kombat, street fighter ecco, were fine and everyone loved playing.

Tech doesn't move this industry GAMES do, and always have. You think the genesis hardware being inferior to it's arcade counter part held back all those copies of after burner, altered beast etc?

I don't disagree with any of that man (I said you can debate whether a console needs to be powerful), the only thing I said is that sony don't subsidise their hardware anymore (which I think is a crying shame) and that it's aging rapidly.

I even said the wii u manages to have a bunch of awesome games that run at 60 fps despite its potato hardware.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

You're talking to someone who's owned all the playstation consoles and 1 xbox console which is the 360 I recently picked up. I think you're using the term fan boy incorrectly. I'm making that claim based on the frequency in which service interruptions are discussed for both services. Again, PSN down is discussed more frequently than Xbox live down. What are you basing your assessment on? Anecdotal evidence? What evidence have you put forward to support your argument?

When psn has any trouble at all it is immediately posted and the thread hits several pages within minutes with many people who dont even game on ps4 parroting "psn sucks".
When xbox live goes down the thread barely goes 1 or 2 pages with some people even questioning if a thread regarding the outage is necessary at all.
Thats even if a thread gets made at all when xbox live has issues.
I saw this happen first hand during the division open beta when live when down and I started a thread about it.
The perception that psn is down more than xbox live is just that, perception. The search results are skewed because the perception that psn is worse exists because of the state of psn during the ps3/360 era. If we were back in the ps3/360 days I would agree with you. But this gen has been totally different.
Using google/bing/whatever results to try to make psn look bad is laughable and shows you have no credibility at all.

 

[Papacheeks]

I don't disagree with any of that man (I said you can debate whether a console needs to be powerful), the only thing I said is that sony don't subsidise their hardware anymore (which I think is a crying shame) and that it's aging rapidly.

I even said the wii u manages to have a bunch of awesome games that run at 60 fps despite its potato hardware.

That Potato is over 5,000!!!

You keep saying all this but nothing is changing for people in the long run other than another option that they didn't have before. How is another option a bad thing? especially when said option doesn't negatively affect anyone else and in fact serves a segment of the market that actually does exist. Which is evident by the fact that lots of people here want this to happen. I honestly feel like your post is full of hot air and you are just concerned for no real reason at all. You are just fighting change for no reason even when there are no real negative effects.

The fact you or I don't know anything at this point. All I know is from history companies have tried this similar approach and it hasn't worked out. And in the end(on mostyl sega side) it caused more damage in the long run than good.

You have no proof that down the road as PS4K get's more games like GOW that utilize it's more powerful gpu, that possibly the base code won't suffer for PS4? ANd all it takes is one game like a hyrule warriors or a exclusive only to PS4K to piss off a good majority of your player base. ANd those people who may have bought your console day one on launch may wait for not bother at all since they know a refresh would possibly be in the cards.

We honestly don't know until they show it. But I feel they should at least finish this gen, even if their PSVR suffers because of no PS4K.

 

[NeonBlack]

For the PS4K

Deep Down (Thought this was dead)
GOW4 (This was the exact abbreviation on the sheet I can only assume its god of war 4)

There were more games on the list but these are the ones that stood out to me.

Ok. Now that's fucked.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

When psn has any trouble at all it is immediately posted and the thread hits several pages within minutes with many people who dont even game on ps4 parroting "psn sucks".
When xbox live goes down the thread barely goes 1 or 2 pages with some people even questioning if a thread regarding the outage is necessary at all.
Thats even if a thread gets made at all when xbox live has issues.
I saw this happen first hand during the division open beta when live when down and I started a thread about it.
The perception that psn is down more than xbox live is just that, perception. The search results are skewed because the perception that psn is worse exists because of the state of psn during the ps3/360 era. If we were back in the ps3/360 days I would agree with you. But this gen has been totally different.
Using google/bing/whatever results to try to make psn look bad is laughable and shows you have no credibility at all.

I decided to bold your whole post because the entire thing is exactly what you accused me of doing. Anecdotal evidence and playstation fanboyism. Trying to make psn look bad? Trying to make a service that I subscribed to till 2017 look bad? What would I have to gain from that? You should really sort yourself out.

 

[Melchiah]

As far as I'm concerned, May 10 will mark the day that the first good ps4 exclusive game is released. The only other good games are remasters/ports. TLOU remaster, Brothers a tale of two sons, Soma, LIS, GTA V and that's pretty much it. The rest of the games are rather average. I have like at least 50 games in my ps4 library and most of them are trash. I spent an hour with them and then deleted them from my hard drive. There are a few decent games like Wolfenstein, etc but honestly this gen hasn't really gotten started. Sony's studios have been really slow to get going and now that they are just about to start churning out the good stuff, there are rumors of new hardware? That's just trash.

We have been conditioned to expect a minimum of 5 years for a console generation from sony before the release of new hardware and now they want to change it to 3? Nope. The ps4 was $400 on launch day and this november will make 3 years. If you've been a ps plus member since the beginning, you've invested an additional $150 into the console. So essentially, you've paid $550 for the console. All we've gotten so far is rubbish ps plus games that no one ever wanted to play, rubbish online service that we have to pay for, subpar hardware on release, rubbish launch controllers that I've had to replace several times and basically 1 good exclusive. That is a waste of $550 as far as I'm concerned. I certainly won't make the mistake of buying a sony console early in the generation ever again. I'll wait till the end of the gen when all the good games have come out. Then it'll be easier to find the consoles and games at a cheap price.

As far as I'm concerned the uproar is not about others having better graphics but about managing expectations. When people are conditioned to expect something, any changes should be communicated clearly. Nvidia, Intel and AMD manage expectations by releasing road maps and communicating that information to their consumers. Sony and Microsoft are trying to pull a bait and switch and as expected, people are pissed off.

The PS4 has no games myth still lives!

 

[Papacheeks]

Ok. Now that's fucked.

Yea the God of War 4 to me reeks of April fools.

They better show off both versions at E3 if it is infact true. ANd base PS4 versions better look fucking tits.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

The PS4 has no games myth still lives!

Wrong, again I didn't say it had no games. I said it had no good games, particularly exclusives. I mentioned that it had decent games but I guess reading comprehension is not really your thing?

 

[Papacheeks]

Wrong, again I didn't say it had no games. I said it had no good games, particularly exclusives. I guess reading comprehension is not really your thing?

That's basically the equivalent of saying it has no games. It's your fucking opinion, don't preach it like it's gospel.

There are plenty of Playstation owners who do not share your sentiments here on gaf, as well there are some who do.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

That's basically the equivalent of saying it has no games. It's your fucking opinion, don't preach it like it's gospel.

There are plenty of Playstation owners who do not share your sentiments here on gaf, as well there are some who do.

No it really isn't the same thing at all. I don't know how you're equating No "good games" except for ports and remasters and has decent games to no games. Like I said, reading comprehension seems like it's definitely not your thing.

 

[CosmicQueso]

ANd base PS4 versions better look fucking tits.

Or else what?

 

[El_Chino]

Yea the God of War 4 to me reeks of April fools.

They better show off both versions at E3 if it is infact true. ANd base PS4 versions better look fucking tits.

Wall Street journal, eurogamer, kotaku and Bish don't participate in April Fools like this.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Or else what?

Reality will be forgotten and everyone will blame the ps4k for the ps4's limitations. This thread is just the beginning. The civil war will claim many

They do if the leak was intentional to gauge reaction on something this big.

A dev already commented on it in this thread. It exists and will be released. It is a matter of when, not if. No April fools joke

 

[Papacheeks]

Wall Street journal, eurogamer, kotaku and Bish don't participate in April Fools like this.

They do if the leak was intentional to gauge reaction on something this big.

 

[Papacheeks]

No it really isn't the same thing at all. I don't know how you're equating No "good games" except for ports and remasters and has decent games to no games. Like I said, reading comprehension seems like it's definitely not your thing.

Wow, maybe go back and re-read how you reacted. You basically said that Uncharted 4 is really the only good exclusive worth having on Playstation when that just isn't true.

And I responded to you saying you are entitled to your opinion and some may share the same sentiment but know there are other's who may not.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Wall Street journal, eurogamer, kotaku and Bish don't participate in April Fools like this.

I think people are confusing this with a sub-reddit rumor, we're waaaayy past that.

 

[bigboss370]

i'm weird...


i am against this idea, i don't like it...


...but i'd buy it.