That's what the 980ti is for.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Durante's Dark Souls PC Performance Article Now Available on PC Gamer
- Thread starter Grief.exe
- Start date
That's what the 980ti is for.
I believe it was Verendus who said Bloodborne 2 is next and then another Sony published JRPG. 3 game contract apparently.
Slick Butter
Member
Ah jeez, well that kind of sucks... oh well, I guess Bloodborne straight up wouldn't exist without Sony. I was just thinking that they would almost definitely try to get an expanded spiritual successor of Bloodborne out on all platforms, like they did with Demon's Souls.
Bleh, not a popular opinion here but not a fan of Bloodborne (as far as souls games go). Good game, but easily the worst souls game IMO.
daninthemix
Member
I'm amazed the game is CPU-bound. Hopefully a patch can address that.
Eh it's just a rumor so take it with a grain of salt. Even then, From makes too much money on multiple platforms and has shown they can tackle multiple projects at once, so I'm sure PC players won't be without a game from them for long.
I'm in total agreance with you on this lol. But who knows, maybe the sequel will improve things dramatically.
Argh of course I had to forget something.
I'll check that when I get back from work, but I very much assume that it's 16:9 only.
It's not CPU bound on a decent gaming PC most of the time. But a few areas are just strange.
daninthemix
Member
Out of interest do you know why this is? Draw calls, inefficient culling etc?
Thank you for a great article Durante!
Very happy to read this:
"Load times are a topic I almost forgot to mention, simply because they are so minuscule. On an SSD, I measured load times between 1.5 and 3 seconds on death or when warping between bonfires. Even on an old-school mechanical HDD, the game does not leave you waiting for long, with load times between 4 and 8 seconds depending on the area. If you want to read item descriptions, plan on doing so in the menu!"
Very happy to read this:
"Load times are a topic I almost forgot to mention, simply because they are so minuscule. On an SSD, I measured load times between 1.5 and 3 seconds on death or when warping between bonfires. Even on an old-school mechanical HDD, the game does not leave you waiting for long, with load times between 4 and 8 seconds depending on the area. If you want to read item descriptions, plan on doing so in the menu!"
That's extremely hard to say with any certainty from the outside.
If I had to speculate, those areas seem to have a lot of overlapping geometry and resultant overdraw, so it might be a lack of effective visibility culling. But it could also be e.g. complex pathfinding or dozens of other things (or, of course, a combination of many of them).
CertifiedFP
Member
If what I've been told is correct, the case with Bloodborne was that Sony went to FROM again after Dark Souls' success as a multiplatform product (PTDE in particular) looking to make amends for screwing up Demons' international release and to try and grab DaSo's 360/PC audience over to the PS4 (DeSo presumably at this point probably got people hooked by DaSo to grab a PS3 at this point, so the logic likely carries over here).
Though the whole history surrounding Demons, Dark, and Bloodborne really can't be explained in one sentence properly. Though I suppose I could "abridge" (Read: Wall of Text) it as this:
Sony contracts FROM to make the PS3's answer to Oblivion (This was before Oblivion's PS3 release was announced) > Sometime midway through development, Demon's (At this point, a TESOblivion clone) development is stalling - Miyazaki takes over development > Miyazaki decides to take the development in a more original direction with inspiration from King's Field, rather than continuing on the course of cloning Oblivion that Sony had hired them for - Around this time, Oblivion comes out for PS3, defeating the purpose of Sony hiring FROM in the first place - Sony begins putting the brakes on western release plans, intent on sending DeSo out to die > Demon's Souls releases in Japan with sales below Sony's expectations, as well as ire inside Sony over it not being what they originally asked for - Subsequently, SCEJapan blocks localization of the game.
FROM, or at least Miyazaki, is not amused by Sony's decision to restrict DeSo's sales potential over company politics, and begins negotiations with western publishers to release the game's already 100% complete localization in NA and EU > Atlus gets the western publishing rights to DeSo - However they can only reach the North American market - DeSo is a reasonably successful hit there, however, FROM wants more > Namco steps in - Complete with the allure of being able to guarantee FROM an international release, as well as multiplatform if they can create a "new" IP skirting Sony's involvement in DeSo* > Namco releases DeSo in Europe, also to success.
Demon's Souls is now a success worldwide in spite of Sony, and Namco and FROM have mutual interest in a sequel, as well as a desire to expand their horizons into Xbox as well - The solution to this is to create a 99% identical IP that narrowly avoids Sony's copyright on Demon's Souls (Think Xenonauts vs X-COM) > Dark Souls' development proceeds smoothly with minimal political drama between Namco and FROM, other than the final stages of development being slightly rushed as their budget ran thin (Souls was still considered niche at this point, and I mean far more niche than people consider it now - And thus did not quite yet warrant the kind of budget DS2/Bloodborne/DS3 had) > Dark Souls releases internationally to massive success beyond expectations > Dark Souls PC petition happens > Dark Souls PTDE releases, perhaps somewhat tepidly over initial reports of it being arse > DSFix releases - PTDE sales boost immediately - Initially matching console sales, and soon after potentially exceeding console sales.
At this point, two things are happening: Dark Souls 2 is beginning development to capitalize on the massive fanbase Dark Souls generated across PS3, 360, and PC - And Sony is noticing all the Souls money they just missed out on as a direct result of trying to throw Demon's Souls into the trash compactor > Sony contacts FROM, intent on getting in on the action they shut them selves out of (And of course, repairing their relationship with FROM) and offers them an exclusive deal for whatever spiritual successor to Demon's and Dark they wanted to make, with a guaranteed international release (And presumably two other games as well) > Miyazaki and his core team leaves Dark Souls 2's development and begin work on Project Beast > Dark Souls 2 releases to the same success as its predecessor, only without a year gap between PC and consoles nor any port drama.
And the rest is present day knowledge (That and I don't feel like continuing this wall of text). Bloodborne releases on PS4, is success, presumably convinced a handful of 360/PC Dark Souls fans to buy a PS4, etc etc, Dark Souls 3 made for patently obvious reasons, etc etc - And we'll have to wait and see on what comes next from FROM concerning the Souls(borne) formula. Be it Bloodborne 2, a completely new IP/setting for the formula, or if FROM just decides to close the book for awhile rather than keep milking their cow. Hope that got everything down concerning the history concerning FROM's various deals between Atlus, Namco, and Sony concerning Soulsborne - And hope that I got everything right between the variety of stories I've heard on this subject.
*Bonus, OT, but branches directly from the above wall-o-text:
After taking all the risk on doing an international release of Demons' Souls and reaping NONE of the long-term rewards due to Namco and Sony taking their lunch with DarkSo and BB, Atlus proceeds to never localize a big-budget 3rd-party title again, opting to double-down on niche Otaku-Bait, which NISA and XSEED end up also yoinking from Atlus with far more lucrative deals than Atlus can provide, hastening the downfall of Index and resulting in Atlus of America ending up as Sega's localization bureau.
daninthemix
Member
That was extremely informative. Thankyou sir!
Possumowner
Member
Such a great read.Cheers Durante.
At this point I'm so pleased I went with a 980ti.
At this point I'm so pleased I went with a 980ti.
Dinky Dino
Member
The interview says otherwise on the PTDE point
"To speak precisely on the timing, it was just about when we were wrapping up Prepare to Die when Sony approached From Software"
http://ign.com/articles/2015/02/05/inside-the-mind-of-bloodborne-and-dark-souls-creator-ign-first
I guess the way he worded it was confusing to me...
"The latter was also true for Dark Souls 2, but there was an issue: weapon degradation speed was tied to framerate. While it seemed unlikely for the same mistake to occur again, I still decided to spend some time hitting a wall with a sword a specific number of times. The results showed identical weapon degradation, but I can tell you that even hitting a wall felt better at 60 FPS"
when he states that "The results showed identical weapon degradation" I thought he was referring to identical weapon degradation as Dark Souls 2
Slick Butter
Member
Thanks, that's very interesting! I knew a good bit of it before, but one thing I definitely didn't know before this was that Demon's Souls started as an Oblivion clone/competitor. I knew it started as something else before Miyazaki made it what it became, but not that.
Slick Butter
Member
Probably not, and Dark Souls 2 didn't either.
Impulsor
Member
The game was VAC-protected to begin with, but there were a lot of false positives and so VAC was disabled while Scamco worked on correctly configuring it... which never happened.
Slick Butter
Member
It did have its own anti-cheat, I think, that sort of worked. Last I heard about it I think people said that it makes it so you can only connect to others who were detected cheating.
I could definitely be very wrong, I think this is speculation about the system from 2014.
Inno
Member
Great article Durante.
I played the PS4 version for about 30hrs before stopping mostly due to the fps and the texture pop-in.
Very disappointing to see that the pop-in is in the PC version as well.
Nothing breaks immersion more for me than running towards an object in the game and have it load in an entirely different texture when you are right in front of it.
Do you think anything can be done about this on PC with mods or engine tweaks?
I played the PS4 version for about 30hrs before stopping mostly due to the fps and the texture pop-in.
Very disappointing to see that the pop-in is in the PC version as well.
Nothing breaks immersion more for me than running towards an object in the game and have it load in an entirely different texture when you are right in front of it.
Do you think anything can be done about this on PC with mods or engine tweaks?
Orthogonal
Member
Excellent article, very thorough. Glad to see that you even got around to testing Dark Souls specific historical quirks and bugs too.
Overall it looks like From is developing very capable ports. Hopefully they can continue the trend going forward.
Overall it looks like From is developing very capable ports. Hopefully they can continue the trend going forward.
Yeah, that's what I gathered as well when I recently did some research. Seems like a decent system.
Not sure about the CPU but you will definitely have trouble with the GPU. My 970 is in RMA currently and I picked up a 950 to hold me over and let me tell you, it's not possible to maintain 720p60 on low settings paired with a 4790k @ 4,6GHz.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll be getting it on PS4 then
Im not sure what a 970ti is but if it's a 970 it sounds like yes.
SmartWaffles
Member
It is impossible to hold a locked 60fps throughout the entire game on any rig because of reasons, but your build should be able to keep acceptable 60fps target for the majority of the game so go for it.
roadrunn3r
Member
That is not what every benchmark and videos we've seen out there indicate. Your PC definitely has issues, reinstall the drivers using DDU for a clean uninstall.
Good write up but I believe you're timeline is slightly off. There's a piece of pretty compelling evidence that suggests Sony contacted From and development (or at least preproduction and planning) on Bloodborne began before PTDE/AotA released.
Said evidence:
Lux R7
Member
Good write up but I believe you're timeline is slightly off. There's a piece of pretty compelling evidence that suggests Sony contacted From and development (or at least preproduction and planning) on Bloodborne began before PTDE/AotA released.
Said evidence:
this guy was on the limited edition's artbook when the original game was released. So, maybe, but maybe not.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Nice, looks like my 680 still has some legs after all. I'll upgrade soon, but don't feel much urgency when the games I want to play are still performing acceptably.
Oh really? Didn't know about that. It's also worth pointing out though, that it's not just his design but Chester's red phantom dodges by sidestepping instead of rolling. He is the only phantom in the game that can do that (as all other phantoms are limited to the same moveset as the player character).
I guess it could be possible Sony contacted From and then Miyazaki and his team decide "Hey, let's make a game where everyone looks and fights like that one relatively unimportant NPC" for no reason but it just seems way more likely that Bloodborne was at least in the concept stage when they added Chester as a character.
Well that's how I see it anyway. I could be completely off base.
On mobile and can't watch right now, but to put my statement into perspective I got about 40~45fps on 1080p and max settings. Sure, better than console and fine with Gsync but I was just trying to make clear that a constant 60 (in areas where the game is not CPU limited) is not feasible at a reasonable resolution with lower end cards. Not complaining or anything of course, just some input for people with similar setup.
If the video shows something unexpected like locked 60 at high setting 1080p or whatever, I should maybe look into doing a clean install lol
Dictator93
Member
Just for you before I go to bed:
Thx, Durante. I think I will attempt to downsample from 2880X1620 to get some extra detail in at 1920X1080.
I was already in bed as you posted this!
----
Looking back on the article after a night's sleep - it is really nice to see some actually high quality options in the game in comparison to previous. The highest options for DOF / MB / Shadows and AO all look like competent effects, and not having to inject to replace them due to the game being built for consoles that are ancient, is quite nice.
Now only if From decided to make the game 60hz+. Everything you test seems to point toward no visible systems scaling incorrectly with framerate... that makes me hope it perhaps could be unlocked by modding this time around. Kinda like how MGS V was.
roadrunn3r
Member
Oh ok that's what the video shows (40-50 fps on ultra). The only other source we have is this where it's possible to have stable 60@900p so I would love if you can confirm that.
Frank Jaeger
Member
\[T]/
Thanks a lot man. Fantastic and thorough work as usual!
Thanks a lot man. Fantastic and thorough work as usual!
d00d3n
Member
Someone on www.wsgf.org posted a 21:9 screenshot that was pillarboxed to the closest 16:9 resolution.
Picture:
Dictator93
Member
:/Someone on www.wsgf.org posted a 21:9 screenshot that was pillarboxed to the closest 16:9 resolution.
Picture:
That armour looks really great thought at least... the shading especially.
---
I am curious if NV will put out HBAO+ bits for DS3 like they did for DS2. They basically worked most if not all the time in DS2... I think?
Dictator93
Member
Shadows not dark enough? Yeah, I am noting that a bit as well. It seems like a lot of mixed lighting too, baked and real time shadows for some things.
Dark Matter
Neo Member
So, the area of the game with huge frame rate drops is CPU bound?
That's comforting to hear for people like me who own a weak GPU and was resigned to play with a 30 fps cap anyway.
That's comforting to hear for people like me who own a weak GPU and was resigned to play with a 30 fps cap anyway.
d00d3n
Member
Yeah, looks good other than the 21:9 issue. Dark Souls 2 was fixed with flawless widescreen, so there is hope for that I guess.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Durante's screenshot looks really nice, what DSR settings would you guys recommend for downsampling to 1080p from 1440p? Because unless I'm downsampling from 4K I feel like it looks worse than native.
Dictator93
Member
Durante's screenshot looks really nice, what DSR settings would you guys recommend for downsampling to 1080p from 1440p? Because unless I'm downsampling from 4K I feel like it looks worse than native.
I have always found that 1620p and 4K are the best down sample resolutions because they work on "even" multiples at least of the base 1080p.
I really should spend the time to look into the smoothness setting offered by DSR... I imagine each resolution multiple it can do requires a specific smoothness setting to look its crispest but without any visible pixel squashing or weirdness.