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NPR: Bernie Sanders staying in the race 'Until The Last Vote Is Cast'

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D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Mr Clutch said:
The will of the voters?!?! If the Supers cared about the will of the voters then all the states that Bernie has won would and should switch to him.
Click to expand...
Eliminate the supers and Hillary wins. Force them to vote according to the states and Hillary wins. The only way Bernie wins is with supers explicitly and in large number going against the voters.

PBY said:
But every piece of reliable data we have says the opposite
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You're not using the principles of Bernie Math.
 
N

NeuAscension

Banned
What I want to know is when did it become okay to have a candidate for a party nomination who was under criminal investigation by the FBI?
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
The entire reason superdelegates even exist is to avoid a contested convention where the leading candidate doesn't get the required delegates for the nomination. We almost saw it with the Reps, which doesn't have superdelegates. It's an extra protection so the person with the most pledged delegates gets to the required number. Seeing people trying to court them for their votes is ridiculous.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Good. Keep pushing the party to the left and I hope all remaining voters that are for his positions go out and vote and show a message. He's not beating the Clinton machine but hopefully it'll put enough pressure so she can't fully pivot to the right come the general election.
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
ivysaur12 said:
But there's probably little to no likelihood that she is indicted, so what's the point of even thinking about such things? If she trips and cracks her neck tomorrow, maybe Bernie will be the nominee at the convention because he's the only living person left who is still on the first ballot. But these things are so improbable there's no reason to consider them as realistic possibilities.



I blame you for this, though I don't know why.
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Lol I hate myself for going there and apologize for throwing that low blow and shit of an answer, but it is a possibility. I mean if you weren't Hillary Clinton and had 10+ FBI agents investigating you I'd 9/10 you're fucked.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
His record with minority voters speaks for itself.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...e-states-that-look-like-the-democratic-party/
Click to expand...

????

His background on racial issues does speak for itself.

I'm sorry, but you don't honestly think Bernie is losing the black vote (and I specify black vote because he's done fairly well with many other minority groups including arabs and natives) because of his weaknesses in his own platform, do you? You don't think it has anything to do with who he's running against?
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Mr Clutch said:
Lol I hate myself for going there and apologize for throwing that low blow and shit of an answer, but it is a possibility. I mean if you weren't Hillary Clinton and had 10+ FBI agents investigating you I'd 9/10 you're fucked.
Click to expand...

It's possible. Jim Gilmore technically is still in the race, so maybe he'll be the nominee. It's possible!

(It's almost certainly not going to happen and to hope for such a catastrophic event that would unepend the small d democratic process just so the candidate you support who is losing wins is kind of shitty)
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Oh, fucking please.

The minute the FBI clears everything the conspiracy circle will widen and you'll hear the nuts say the FBI has been compromised.

Logic on this was abandoned long ago, it wouldn't even be the biggest leap.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
I do get the feeling Bernie'd be doing better with POC against anyone else short of Obama (or Bill) himself; he just happened to be running against her, of all people.
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
ivysaur12 said:
It's possible. Jim Gilmore technically is still in the race, so maybe he'll be the nominee. It's possible!

(It's almost certainly not going to happen and to hope for such a catastrophic event that would unepend the small d democratic process just so the candidate you support who is losing wins is kind of shitty)
Click to expand...

Have I introduced you to this Country's plan b?

https://garyjohnson2016.com/

/s
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
BanGy.nz said:
Did you miss the word reliable?
Click to expand...

Fair statement. Rasmussen has a C rating on 538 and a 2 point biased toward R but, it was a relevant poll making the rounds. However, it is a lot closer of a race between Hillary and Trump than it is Bernie vs. Trump.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
JordanN said:
If Hillary is struggling to get rid of Bernie, what difference does it make if he drops out?

If anything, Bernie staying in is a good test of how well Hillary can perform under pressure. Don't blame Bernie for any "damages" against the Democrats if Hillary is suppose to be the one leading them.
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You do remember Hilary was grilled for 12 hours on live TV by a Republican tribunal and came out of it looking even better than she did before?

She's gonna be able to handle the one or two hour time limit of debates handily.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
eBay Huckster said:
I do get the feeling Bernie'd be doing better with POC against anyone else short of Obama (or Bill) himself; he just happened to be running against her, of all people.
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Thank you.

Shy of Obama, or another person of color who understands our issues, African Americans couldn't have gotten a more popular candidate.

THIS IS HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, Y'ALL


------------------

You're out of your mind if you don't think he'd have the black vote on lock if fucking Trump was the other guy.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
eBay Huckster said:
seriously

if policy analysis/advising was as simple as spouting out a page-long "issues page" free of any actual mechanisms for achieving anything, no one in this country would ever study in an MPA/MPP program with the intent of going into any policy fields, because any putz could do it
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He's not even advocating real reform, that's the fucked up thing.

I'm making a thread on this later I think (I wanna hash it out beyond this simplistic angle) but he's not chagning anything on a basic level. He's just trying to take our already broken systems and then slap his changes on top of them, which misses the point.

Free college education is a GREAT IDEA, if you completely reform the American education system and gear it towards producing technically qualified workers like you see in other westernized countries. You can't do free college with the UK-styled 4-year-bachelors program that forces 2 years of gen ed before you even get to your specialist program. It is too expensive and no other country in the world does it like that, it's absurd. I actually liked Obama's idea about promoting and reforming Junior Colleges as tech schools, but a better movement would be to stop demanding that all Federal jobs require a bachelor's degree. Change the standard, completely change the system, don't just waffle on about "free education" when the underlying issue is the system itself that would remain unaltered.

The reason I dislike Bernie so much is because he's taking ideas that I genuinely support and want to see, and butchering them. You only get ONE CHANCE at a single payer system, if you fuck it up, we turn our back on it and never go back. Same with college reform, same with immigration reform, same with income shifts and tax plans and every significant change you can make. You need to do it right for it to last.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
BanGy.nz said:
That's your play? Yes, he would probably win if she was indicted... probably because I'm not sure Biden doesn't get parachuted in.
Click to expand...

The DNC would be crazy not to run with Bernie in such a case.

-------------------
Nothing wrong on this. I still see him endorsing Hillary.
 
R

royalan

Member
Prodigal Son said:
????

His background on racial issues does speak for itself.

I'm sorry, but you don't honestly think Bernie is losing the black vote (and I specify black vote because he's done fairly well with many other minority groups including arabs and natives) because of his weaknesses in his own platform, do you? You don't think it has anything to do with who he's running against?
Click to expand...

Bernie is losing the black vote because a large swath of black voters don't know who he is, don't care to know who he is, and aren't given any incentive to learn about who he is and support him over the candidate that they DO know. That is entirely his fault, seeing as the last time Bernie Sanders did anything relevant to the black community on the national level, TV was still shot in black and white and pickles cost a nickel.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
royalan said:
Bernie is losing the black vote because a large swath of black voters don't know who he is, don't care to know who he is, and aren't given any incentive to learn about who he is and support him over the candidate that they DO know. That is entirely his fault, seeing as the last time Bernie Sanders did anything relevant to the black community on the national level, TV was still shot in black and white and pickles cost a nickel.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

People need you to talk to them like you care, not "I marched with Dr. King" and a bunch of him and his supporters telling you to vote for him because of his record and he's "what's best for you".

You need to TELL people, in terms of actual, implementable policy, how you'll be better for me and others than Clinton.
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
royalan said:
Bernie is losing the black vote because a large swath of black voters don't know who he is, don't care to know who he is, and aren't given any incentive to learn about who he is and support him over the candidate that they DO know. That is entirely his fault, seeing as the last time Bernie Sanders did anything relevant to the black community on the national level, TV was still shot in black and white and pickles cost a nickel.
Click to expand...

And on top of this the Black vote sides with Hillary because of her Husband's image to the Black voters as well as her time (and constant piggybacking) of Barry O. I mean in all honesty she doesn't deserve the Black vote and has done nothing to help the African-American community. In fact most of her time in politics has made it harder on the African-American population (ie Crime bills, prison funding, law enforcement expansions, welfare bills, etc)
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
royalan said:
Bernie is losing the black vote because a large swath of black voters don't know who he is, don't care to know who he is, and aren't given any incentive to learn about who he is and support him over the candidate that they DO know. That is entirely his fault, seeing as the last time Bernie Sanders did anything relevant to the black community on the national level, TV was still shot in black and white and pickles cost a nickel.
Click to expand...

Accurate, except:

Really can't fault a Mayor turned lone, independent Senator for not accomplishing anything on a national level. Also thanks, I guess, for undermining the significance of the contributions people made to my civil rights because it happened a long time ago.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Frozenprince said:
He's not even advocating real reform, that's the fucked up thing.

I'm making a thread on this later I think (I wanna hash it out beyond this simplistic angle) but he's not chagning anything on a basic level. He's just trying to take our already broken systems and then slap his changes on top of them, which misses the point.

Free college education is a GREAT IDEA, if you completely reform the American education system and gear it towards producing technically qualified workers like you see in other westernized countries. You can't do free college with the UK-styled 4-year-bachelors program that forces 2 years of gen ed before you even get to your specialist program. It is too expensive and no other country in the world does it like that, it's absurd. I actually liked Obama's idea about promoting and reforming Junior Colleges as tech schools, but a better movement would be to stop demanding that all Federal jobs require a bachelor's degree. Change the standard, completely change the system, don't just waffle on about "free education" when the underlying issue is the system itself that would remain unaltered.

The reason I dislike Bernie so much is because he's taking ideas that I genuinely support and want to see, and butchering them. You only get ONE CHANCE at a single payer system, if you fuck it up, we turn our back on it and never go back. Same with college reform, same with immigration reform, same with income shifts and tax plans and every significant change you can make. You need to do it right for it to last.
Click to expand...

Honestly, my biggest personal failing in this cycle?

Out of all my Facebook notes, statuses, social media stuff in general that people actually pay attention to, that I've devoted to attacking Bernie's platform, every single one is more or less entirely on the basis that the budgeting doesn't add up, which albeit true leaves out the fact that things like the "free college" plank are naive as they currently exist at best for the reasons you just laid out.

The financial sector "reforms" do nothing to address potential negative side effects on the economy and in fact he pretends that none exist.

The criminal justice reforms ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of prisoners are held at the state and local levels in states that are not gonna be willing to cooperate short of their governors being sent to the Phantom Zone & their rural populations being deported to a parallel universe.

The wage increases ignore differences between costs of living at the local level and in fact his campaign's basically disavowed Alan Krueger's research on the matter.

Like, there's a few good things in there - lifting the payroll cap, spending on infrastructure - that would be hard to fuck up. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be the focus.
 
U

ugaboga232

Member
Frozenprince said:
Thank you.

People need you to talk to them like you care, not "I marched with Dr. King" and a bunch of him and his supporters telling you to vote for him because of his record and he's "what's best for you".

You need to TELL people, in terms of actual, implementable policy, how you'll be better for me and others than Clinton.
Click to expand...

That is what we would like to be the case, but humans tend to rely on their emotions just as much as they rely on logic. Perhaps bernie never had a chance regardless of his platform because of what he represents and who he is against.

And where is all of this actual implementable policy that isn't already in the works or super niche policy changes for hillary? Both of them have nice fluffy websites.
 
R

royalan

Member
Mr Clutch said:
And on top of this the Black vote sides with Hillary because of her Husband's image to the Black voters as well as her time (and constant piggybacking) of Barry O. I mean in all honesty she doesn't deserve the Black vote and has done nothing to help the African-American community. In fact most of her time in politics has made it harder on the African-American population (ie Crime bills, prison funding, law enforcement expansions, welfare bills, etc)
Click to expand...

You mean all those bills that were enacted before Hillary Clinton ever held an elected office? Many of those bills which Bernie supported?
 
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