Vestal
Gold Member
Hillary has already been through the Talk Radio furnace. Bernie is still a debutant for them. If he were a real threat you would see that R machine go at him and his numbers crumble to realism.
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NPR: Bernie Sanders staying in the race 'Until The Last Vote Is Cast'
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Hillary has already been through the Talk Radio furnace. Bernie is still a debutant for them. If he were a real threat you would see that R machine go at him and his numbers crumble to realism.
CrocMother
Banned
I want him to stay in the race because I want the issues he cares about to stay in the conversation
I don't think attacking the underdog aggressively would do her any favors.
Frozenprince
Banned
Why? He's not doing anything positive for those issues. Those issues that Hillary isn't already campaigning on (racial divides, income gap, healthcare reform are all things she's addressed) will disappear and be forgotten the second he loses.
All he's doing is wasting money and time that could be used to unity the party against Donald Trump and a republican majority congress, senate, AND SC which would basically destroy the country.
Who remembers ANYTHING about Ron Paul's platform?
S/he's talking about the General.
Mr Clutch
Member
Vestal
Gold Member
My point is, Hillary has been in the R cross hair for over 25 years, she basically bathed in the Hudson for 25 years and now is immune to disease. Bernie has never been taken seriously by them, so to take a perspective from a GE poll for him before he goes through the fire is stupid.
They're my civil rights too, pal.
And you're the one suggesting that Hillary is only enjoying overwhelming support among us black folk due to name recognition, and not because of the legislation she's championed, the causes she's fought for, and the people she's worked with and helped get elected while Bernie either hung out in Vermont or preached to an uninterested Senate. Nah, nothing to do with that! She's a Clinton!
Good. Bernie Sanders is what your country should be, and where the rest of the western world is at - so the more the message, the better. He still is absolutely dominating the youth vote with 80%+ demographics. The youth and university student vote and/or protest is usually on the side of history and where things will be going.
What really surprises me, has nothing to do with how your country has voted though. I mean that's expected, they're not ready to join the rest of the western world on a more socialist policy platform yet. But the majority support she has on GAF who are usually more in line with the rest of the world in being progressive. I was especially surprised by so many people who have no issue with corporate money in politics. I have a feeling cynicism plays a role here. I would be interested to know the age demographics on Hilary supporters on GAF.
What really surprises me, has nothing to do with how your country has voted though. I mean that's expected, they're not ready to join the rest of the western world on a more socialist policy platform yet. But the majority support she has on GAF who are usually more in line with the rest of the world in being progressive. I was especially surprised by so many people who have no issue with corporate money in politics. I have a feeling cynicism plays a role here. I would be interested to know the age demographics on Hilary supporters on GAF.
Frozenprince
Banned
Haaaaaaaaaaaah.
No.
He's barely winning, and is losing by a ton in most every other demo, which are just as important. Or is it just white 20 somethings that matter?
Prodigal Son
Member
I wish we'd judge candidates more by what they say rather than what their fanatical supporters say. The candidate with the more passionate support is always going to have bad eggs doing bad egg things. It shouldn't have any reasonable bearing on your opinion of the candidate's message.
I literally never said any of that, but okay.
I disagree. I think you're arriving at those conclusions based on a ton of pessimism.
US politics don't have to be corrupt.
I literally never said any of that, but okay.
I disagree. I think you're arriving at those conclusions based on a ton of pessimism.
US politics don't have to be corrupt.
BlastProcessing
Member
Oh, we voted that in at the last Bilderberg meetup. You weren't there?
Frozenprince
Banned
I try and judge him purely on what he says.
What he says is idealistic, untenable, and based on flawed and ultimately naive logic, at best.
He's doing plenty positive for those issues.
Hilary is going to be forced to compromise on some of those issues that are important to Bernie supporters.
Vestal
Gold Member
So being under investigation = GUILTY!?!?!
Yeah lets set that precedent... Oh I don't like that Trump is running, let me go over to the FBI office and ask them to investigate his hair..
Frozenprince
Banned
Like what?
What, specifically, is he doing that is positive for these issues?
And no, no she isn't, because Bernie supporters aren't going to get her elected, undecided voters (I/E the vast majority of the GE) are.
Melkezadek
Member
It is entirely possible that people have heard him but just disagree with him.
Maybe if Bernie bothered to build relationships with the black community he wouldn't have gotten crushed. Sounds like a problem with the candidate to me. A better candidate would have done it, but you were stuck with a poor one
Prodigal Son
Member
I* wasn't addressing that in my post.
Built better relationships with southern black communities: a senator in vermont.
Okay.
Similar to how Trump is wet behind the ears and really has no chance of winning.
Yet Bernie is indirectly aiding in his unattainable victory.
Frozenprince
Banned
What demographics can Bernie turn to him in a GE? How can he win a GE?
Specifically, point out to me his path to winning a GE against Donald Trump.
Indiana Exit Polls (last state):
74% Sanders 26% on age demographic 17 to 29. It becomes more drastic (80%) when you look at 17 to 24 which is lacking demographic on CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/in/Dem
Feel free to go through the states. That 80% on 17 to 24 age bracket is made up all kinds of ethnicities. CNN doesn't show an "age and ethnicity" bracket either (it's funny how they don't show favourable narrative demographics for Sanders - it's to keep people like you focused on the "white 20 somethings" narrative in my opinion).
I can google deep dive for those demographics, but I just remember them being listed on other sources I was watching or reading in the past.
Just because he's a Senator from Vermont doesn't mean he has to stay there and do nothing else. He could have gotten involved in issues and helped out other Senators. He could have done a listening tour, he could have gotten his hands dirty, but he didn't. He didn't do shit and then he acted surprised he lost the African-American vote.
That's kind of his fault if he wanted a run a successful Democratic campaign.
Prodigal Son
Member
1) He did he 'act surprised.' Where are you getting this from?
2) How many Senators do you think have the opportunity to get recognition on a level anywhere near Hillary Clinton? He'd have an advantage over most other Senators in the country with African Americans.
Give me a break.
Frozenprince
Banned
We've talked about this, but the reason there isn't a field beyond the two of them and hasn't been from jump, and this is very important to understand, is that Hillary has been campaigning for President for almost 12 years at this point.
Bernie has been barely campaigning, while actively ignoring the south, for less than a year.
CrocMother
Banned
1) He is doing something positive for those issues. He's bringing them up and people are questioning Hilary about them.
2) If they disappear the second he loses, then the longer he stays in the better.
3) Nothing has changed really in the past 12 months. Hilary was the presumptive President and her position has only strengthened in that regard.
4) Bernie is a more progressive candidate, and very popular one at that. Nobody expected him to do so well. Hopefully, it will push Hilary to think harder about issues like campaign finance reform. If for no other reason than that she wants these Bernie supporters to come around to her when she potentially faces a real candidate in four years.
I don't really see any downside to him staying in the race. Unless you actually see Donald Trump as a threat to win. I've seen zero evidence supporting that idea.
shinra-bansho
Member
No. The rest of the Western world is not a protectionist mess living in the 1950s. It's not a socialist utopia. And it's not run by #occupyCNN nutsos. I don't know where this bizarre idea comes from.
Big Baybee
Member
No response. Bernie had "reasons" tho. Still pure.
I'm not even sure how this relates to my statement...
But just running against a guy like Trump is pretty helpful.
Bring out those receipts on the bold. Prove it.
And the source of these numbers is...?
eBay Huckster
Member
Maybe Tabris is a Dipper and wants the rest of the Western world to be one.
No matter how much some of his supporters want it, Hillary isn't going to miraculously transform into Bernie by the time the general election rolls around just because he won't go away. If the majority of voters wanted someone exactly like him specifically to embody the party, then they would've chosen him, but they haven't.
Frozenprince
Banned
None of these are actual positives or factual, they are presumptions and assumptions.
I'm asking what, specifically, is Bernie staying in the race doing to further the advocacy of single payer health care, the income gap, racial inequality, education reform, criminal justice reform, senate/congressional reform, local and state electoral and systemic reform, infrastructural reform, I could go on and on and on and on.
Even ignoring the fact that people are allowed to travel. Bernie spent tons of time in Washington DC with a huge black population.
SolicitorPirate
Member
I feel that this is an important issue people regularly gloss over when discussing Sanders. No one ever talks about his protectionist policies and how damaging they'd be to international trade
ugaboga232
Member
This opens the question what is the point of our representatives, to make good choices or follow what their voters want (right now they don't really do either for the most part, democrats are better than republicans).
I don't think anyone had a chance against clinton and sanders got a lot more support than he thought and he wants to keep his message going for better or for worse.
Frozenprince
Banned
I'm kinda done bothering at this point.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Where are you getting this poll?
California's Democratic Electorate is around 10% black. If what you've posted is true, there's absolutely no way Hillary would be winning the polls by 14 points.
Prodigal Son
Member
Because half of the Senators in the US are right wing bigots. If we're just dealing with democrats, Bernie is literally our most progressive senator. Who do you think would do a better job, shy of another person of color?
Still not seeing how this isn't an awful argument. He hasn't had the means or opportunity (beyond supporting progressive legislature of course) to do any meaningful good for the AA community on a national level. You're fighting reality here.
CrocMother
Banned
Dropping out could only hurt those issues. It would take pressure off Hilary to be progressive on those. She would only need to be more progressive than Donald Trump.
I believe it's a Fox News poll.
Frozenprince
Banned
Or if Sanders was winning so overwhelmingly in the Hispanic block that he'd be down so much.
No link to the actual results?
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Ah, well there it is.
Gillibrand, Schumer, anyone from a state that has african-americans. Part of the reason he hasn't done well is that he had to be forced into speaking about their issues, a senator from a state with a large african-american population wouldn't make that mistake.
Pretty much anything DC does has to go through Congress, it's the perfect excuse to get involved.
Frozenprince
Banned
What?
Alright. Look. This is ridiculous.
The office of the president A) Is not some omnipowerful chair that can pass any ballot or bill they choose, and B) this is such a confused logic it's absurd. Hillary can campaign on whatever she wants and then do what she feels is best and within her power when elected because she's made inroads with the people who can actually accomplish things.
I'm asking what positives Bernie can provide other than the constantly stated "pushing the party further left" which isn't really a thing or happening. The effects of him staying in on her GE campaign mean NOTHING to the country.
1) We don't need "Occupy CNN nutsos" because our countries have a much higher degree of journalist freedom:
https://rsf.org/en/ranking - US is ranked 46th on the 2016 World Press Freedom Index.
2) We don't need to fight globalization because most western nations have the socialist policies (Universal Healthcare, Universal Education, Economic Regulations) to handle globalization as we move to a 4th industrial age over here. You don't, so globalization hits your average citizen much harder then other western countries with stronger social nets
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