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NPR: Bernie Sanders staying in the race 'Until The Last Vote Is Cast'

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H

hawk2025

Member
The center is wide open.

The further left are being petulant children and often promising to not even vote based on not believing Clinton's positions in the first place.



What's the argument for shifting further left instead of securing the center?
 
S

sturgboski

Member
hawk2025 said:
The center is wide open.

The further left are being petulant children and often promising to not even vote based on not believing Clinton's positions in the first place.



What's the argument for shifting further left instead of securing the center?
Click to expand...

No compromise, no surrender? At least that's how I read it.
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
Mr Clutch said:
No you are actually incorrect here. Bernie has numerously stated that without Congress there is no way he can achieve what he wants. He is very aware of this. His political revolution isn't about solely him. He coined that to reference the need and urgency to get back the House. I'm not saying electing him will change everything overnight, but it will absolutely be a step in the right direction. We can sit around and let the same crap happen over and over or we can ignite the spark that will jump start some change.
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Or Bernie could use the butt tons of money that he fundraised to support other progressive democrats instead of doing nothing. Just a thought.
 
T

Tranqueris

Banned
Piecake said:
There is no competition. It is pointless. He isn't going to accomplish anything that he already hasn't by staying in the race.

People want him to quit because it is pointless and would like to see an end/reduction to the friction on the left.
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Yeah, but like.. What if he wins California by 50 points and convinces the superdelegates he's been bad mouthing for months to steal the election for him? What then eh??

Frozenprince said:
He's just gonna take his ball (all his money) and go home isn't he?

What a disingenuous ass. If you're preaching about changing the system, how about putting your literal money where your mouth is and SUPPORTING DOWN TICKET DEMS TO OUST THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY?
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Bernie's been burning through money as fast as he can get it. Outspending Hillary 2 to 1, or 3 to 1 has that effect. This idea that he was ever going to support down ticket democrats with his donations while also trying to win as desperately as he has been, was always a myth.

Also I saw a video of Bernie talking at a rally in Kentucky and he's still implying that Hillary is bought by special interests. Yep, totally still about pushing her to the left.
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
BanGy.nz said:
With the current rules and math It's impossible for a two person race to be a end in a contested convention... So unless Biden plans on jumping in and somehow winning the rest of the delegates that dream is dead.
Click to expand...

What would happen if tomorrow Bernie announces Biden as VP?
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Mr Clutch said:
Would you support someone who has basically talked poorly of you and given their support to the person you are competing against?

Bernie basically has said his win will influence votes for down ticket candidates. Also, Bernie brings with him around 25% cross party favorable votes. Basically he is saying him just winning the nom (and eventually the General) will in turn give momentum to the down-ticket candidates.

Also, while on the subject, it isn't like Hillary is supporting down ticket candidates. I mean yeah she has raised $18-20 million for them, but as we know its currently sitting in a "Victory for Hillary" fund within the Pro-Hillary DNC run by a former Hillary co-chair...
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You mean the party that

A) Puts him on committee chairs.

B) Lets him run unopposed for reelection

C) Is the reason he is famous right now?


Again he put in zero effort for down ticket Dems and is in it only for himself. His delusions of coattails and unilateral disarmament against the GOP will somehow turn races around is absurd. Not to mention the fact is he hasn't been attacked seriously this whole election (save for about one week where he sunk the NY primary).

You know why I oppose Sanders? Because he is a terrible candidate and would be a terrible president. Clinton has at least put in the effort to help Dems down ticket, stacked the DNCs deck to win in the greatest way possible come November.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Moofers said:
Wtf are you talking about? He's the most specific candidate in the race. He is ENTIRELY about policy. Calling out Hillary on being a money-pig and a flip-flipper isn't being bitter or petty, it's stating facts. Facts that a lot of Hillary supporters seem absolutely dead set on ignoring. Frankly, we deserve better and his supporters are the only ones willing to fight for it.
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No no no no no.

He's ENTIRELY about RHETORIC.

Not Policy.
 
P

PBY

Banned
For the record - I think it's fine if Bernie stays in. He just cannot attack Hill, should cancel the CA debate and frame all policy attacks with the caveat that "but Hill is still better Than Trump and whatever happens we all have to unite eventually behind our core common principles"
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
Mr Clutch said:
There IS a chance.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Mr Clutch said:
There IS a chance.
Click to expand...

Right now, Bernie cannot win with the supers he has and only pledged delegates -- that ship sailed last night and he is mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination on pledged delegates alone. That means that he will need superdelegates, but he only has 41, and supers have never gone against the will of the voters before.

It's likely that Hillary will roll out a series of endorsements in the coming weeks so that either by Kentucky/Oregon or by June 7th, she will clinch the nomination will supers, and that will be that. She will win on the first ballot.

Realistically, there is little to no chance that Bernie will be the Democratic nominee, and there hasn't been for some time.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
sturgboski said:
Wonder if that changes when his history is brought to light. Hating Clinton works because she has been dragged through the mud for decades. Sanders has not, which is part of why he is viewed so highly and can point to polls showing him winning the GE. If Trump can get people to believe Cruz's dad was part of the JFK assassination based on doctored photos and an article in a tabloid, what do you think happens when he goes after Sanders and his history?

As for that scenario, stop listening to Fox News and Weaver.
Click to expand...

I don't watch Fox news or Weaver, but I appreciate the friendly advice.

The scenario isn't a conspiracy theory. In reality she is being investigated by 12 FBI agents. Nobody made that up. This isn't me saying she's guilty. I'm also not saying they're investigating her for fun.

Main point: Yes, Clinton's divisiveness is the result of GOP smearing for decades. The damage has been done and is still being done. Many Americans fucking hate her for arguably rational reason that have nothing to do with "Benghazi" or "emails". Not only is this election not in a few decades, however, it's this year. Not only will democrats also be running attack ads in full force (many here forget that too), they'll be running them against an already despised candidate.

It's unbelievable to say with certainty that decades of attack ads on Clinton will be just as or more effective than a few months of attack ads on a popular Candidate. Of course public perception of Bernie will take a hit once the GOP does their campaigning. Same could be same about 'black, muslim, kenyan' Obama.

"What they might say about him" shouldn't change who we vote for. You're buying into fear.

Mercury Fred said:
You're right. Convincing superdelegates to flip from the overwhelming front runner in order to support an ideologue who's done nothing for the party but shit on it could totes happen. Very possible.
Click to expand...

About as likely as a Clinton indictment. Both unlikely. Both possible.
 
D

Draper

Member
PBY said:
For the record - I think it's fine if Bernie stays in. He just cannot attack Hill, should cancel the CA debate and frame all policy attacks with the caveat that "but Hill is still better Than Trump and whatever happens we all have to unite eventually behind our core common principles"
Click to expand...

Stipulating rules about the way he campaigns sounds oh so democratic.

Some of you guys slay me.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
If Hillary is struggling to get rid of Bernie, what difference does it make if he drops out?

If anything, Bernie staying in is a good test of how well Hillary can perform under pressure. Don't blame Bernie for any "damages" against the Democrats if Hillary is suppose to be the one leading them.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Prodigal Son said:
I don't watch Fox news or Weaver, but I appreciate the friendly advice.

The scenario isn't a conspiracy theory. In reality she is being investigated by 12 FBI agents. Nobody made that up. This isn't me saying she's guilty. I'm also not saying they're investigating her for fun.

Main point: Yes, Clinton's divisiveness is the result of GOP smearing for decades. The damage has been done and is still being done. Many Americans fucking hate her for arguably rational reason that have nothing to do with "Benghazi" or "emails". Not only is this election not in a few decades, however, it's this year. Not only will democrats also be running attack ads in full force (many here forget that too), they'll be running them against an already despised candidate.

It's unbelievable to say with certainty that decades of attack ads on Clinton will be just as or more effective than a few months of attack ads on a popular Candidate. Of course public perception of Bernie will take a hit once the GOP does their campaigning. Same could be same about 'black, muslim, kenyan' Obama.

"What they might say about him" shouldn't change who we vote for. You're buying into fear.
Click to expand...

Eh, there's nothing wrong with voting for someone based on their perceived electoral fitness in a first-past-the-post system.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
PBY said:
For the record - I think it's fine if Bernie stays in. He just cannot attack Hill, should cancel the CA debate and frame all policy attacks with the caveat that "but Hill is still better Than Trump and whatever happens we all have to unite eventually behind our core common principles"
Click to expand...

Same. You can keep running and pray for that FBI Indictment that will never come.

But to fling mud at the presumptive nominee on anything but policy is sabotage. Plain and simple.

And none of that "Well I don't know if she's been influenced by Wall Street..." wink wink nudge nudge bullshit either.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
NeoCTN said:
Stipulating rules about the way he campaigns sounds oh so democratic.

Some of you guys slay me.
Click to expand...

It's not constructive, as someone who does not want Donald Trump to be president, to continue to have Hillary fight a two front war. I don't have any problem with Bernie staying in, but I'd prefer if he ran a more uplifting campaign and stopped trying to legitimize and enable right wing attacks now that he won't be the nominee.

I don't think it'll matter in the end, but it's not the time to sow distrust about the person who he'll inevitably end up campaigning for. It's not a huge deal, but it is an annoyance.

Prodigal Son said:
I am personally not a fan of that mindset. We would have many good leaders if less people bought into that sort of thinking imo.
Click to expand...

I think it's the only way we can actually get anything of note done in this country, but okay.
 
Mr Clutch

Mr Clutch

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Right now, Bernie cannot win with the supers he has and only pledged delegates -- that ship sailed last night and he is mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination on pledged delegates alone. That means that he will need superdelegates, but he only has 41, and supers have never gone against the will of the voters before.

It's likely that Hillary will roll out a series of endorsements in the coming weeks so that either by Kentucky/Oregon or by June 7th, she will clinch the nomination will supers, and that will be that. She will win on the first ballot.

Realistically, there is little to no chance that Bernie will be the Democratic nominee, and there hasn't been for some time.
Click to expand...

The will of the voters?!?! If the Supers cared about the will of the voters then all the states that Bernie has won would and should switch to him.
 
S

SolicitorPirate

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
No no no no no.

He's ENTIRELY about RHETORIC.

Not Policy.
Click to expand...

Every time I see people describe what Bernie spouts as policy, I get really pissed off.

As someone who used to write advice to government about tax policy, if what Bernie does constitutes policy talk, then A) my job would have been a lot easier, and B) I wouldn't have had a job because any buffoon could have done it
 
P

PBY

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
It's not constructive, as someone who does not want Donald Trump to be president, to continue to have Hillary fight a two front war. I don't have any problem with Bernie staying in, but I'd prefer if he ran a more uplifting campaign and stopped trying to legitimize and enable right wing attacks now that he won't be the nominee.

I don't think it'll matter in the end, but it's not the time to sow distrust about the person who he'll inevitably end up campaigning for. It's not a huge deal, but it is an annoyance.
Click to expand...
My feelings to a T.

I mean, Trump has started recycling some of these attacks, how is this going to go following another debate?
 
C

Chie Satonaka

Member
Just saw #DropOutHillary is trending.

This is going to be a shitshow all the way to the convention and likely past that.

It's probably time to stop paying attention to politics until this summer.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
JordanN said:
If Hillary is struggling to get rid of Bernie, what difference does it make if he drops out?

If anything, Bernie staying in is a good test of how well Hillary can perform under pressure.
Click to expand...
He's not providing any pressure at this point. He's just stoking further dislike for the 99.9% certain nominee.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Mr Clutch said:
The will of the voters?!?! If the Supers cared about the will of the voters then all the states that Bernie has won would and should switch to him.
Click to expand...

And he'd still be losing by a significant amount of delegates. She's going to win the nomination by double-digits in the popular vote. The superdelegates have no legitimate reason to abandon the will of voters from a thorough voting process of the primaries and caucuses.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
SolicitorPirate said:
Every time I see people describe what Bernie spouts as policy, I get really pissed off.

As someone who used to write advice to government about tax policy, if what Bernie does constitutes policy talk, then A) my job would have been a lot easier, and B) I wouldn't have had a job because any buffoon could have done it
Click to expand...

seriously

if policy analysis/advising was as simple as spouting out a page-long "issues page" free of any actual mechanisms for achieving anything, no one in this country would ever study in an MPA/MPP program with the intent of going into any policy fields, because any putz could do it
 
S

SolicitorPirate

Member
PBY said:
My feelings to a T.

I mean, Trump has started recycling some of these attacks, how is this going to go following another debate?
Click to expand...

Remember way back in the beginning when we thought Trump was a Clinton plant to make it easier for her to win the GE?

The Shyamalan twist was that Sanders was a Trump plant
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
JordanN said:
If Hillary is struggling to get rid of Bernie, what difference does it make if he drops out?

If anything, Bernie staying in is a good test of how well Hillary can perform under pressure. Don't blame Bernie for any "damages" against the Democrats if Hillary is suppose to be the one leading them.
Click to expand...

"Struggling "

With an overwhelming delegate lead, overwhelming popular vote and formed consensus of the party.


"Struggling"
 
P

PBY

Banned
SolicitorPirate said:
Remember way back in the beginning when we thought Trump was a Clinton plant to make it easier for her to win the GE?

The Shyamalan twist was that Sanders was a Trump plant
Click to expand...
Let's not get crazy lol. But the optics of the GOP clown car wrapping up before the dems are bad.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
Dan said:
He's not providing any pressure at this point. He's just stoking further dislike for the 99.9% certain nominee.
Click to expand...
He's still winning states. If Hillary can't stop that, what's going to happen when she's finally put up against Trump?
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Mr Clutch said:
Even if she was indicted?
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But there's probably little to no likelihood that she is indicted, so what's the point of even thinking about such things? If she trips and cracks her neck tomorrow, maybe Bernie will be the nominee at the convention because he's the only living person left who is still on the first ballot. But these things are so improbable there's no reason to consider them as realistic possibilities.

Prodigal Son said:
Control F: Indicted

yus
Click to expand...

I blame you for this, though I don't know why.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Prodigal Son said:
I am personally not a fan of that mindset. We would have many good leaders if less people bought into that sort of thinking imo.
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There's a difference between perceived electability and substantive, policy-driven electability.

It's the difference between Marco Rubio and Barack Obama. The former looks like an electable candidate because he's young, forward looking, Hispanic and energetic. The latter is all of that, plus he actually stands for something. He resonates with voters through both his life experiences and his ideas.

That's why he was so good at building coalitions among disparate votings blocs. We think Hillary can emulate that to a certain degree. We know Bernie can not.
 
A

Azih

Member
hawk2025 said:
The center is wide open.

The further left are being petulant children and often promising to not even vote based on not believing Clinton's positions in the first place.



What's the argument for shifting further left instead of securing the center?
Click to expand...
The center is in a terrible place in America.
 
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