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NPR: Bernie Sanders staying in the race 'Until The Last Vote Is Cast'

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Piecake

Member
Lol some of you want him to roll over. Democracy is there for all. If he wants to continue running then I see no problem as long as there are enough people backing him. Really feels warped how some can't handle competition.

There is no competition. It is pointless. He isn't going to accomplish anything that he already hasn't by staying in the race.

People want him to quit because it is pointless and would like to see an end/reduction to the friction on the left.
 

damisa

Member
Are you talking about your uncle at the thanksgiving dinner table or a presidential candidate addressing a country of over 300 million people? I speak to voters every day who have no fucking clue what Bernie's platform is. Not everyone follows this to the same degree that you or I do.

I am sure there were a lot of voters who never got the chance to hear Jeb/Rubio/Cruz/O'Malley/ etc. But those candidates can accept reality and do what's best for their party. Bernie doesn't care about the party, only himself
 
And you have no issue with not so subtle dog whistle about the confederacy/land of cotton/high AA population?

Dude I live in south Georgia black belt. So not really.

No, but it's trying to sell a narrative that Hillary can only win in the South, or can only win with conservative voters. If that were the case, this race would look significantly different.

That's not the implication I got from it at all but if that's how you see it no I don't agree that Clinton can only win conservatives. I got family voting for her.
 

Adaren

Member
I take issue with reducing those parts of the country as "cotton states" or "confederate states." I think it's fairly evident why that image is problematic.

I'm going to repeat what I said in quotes. A straight, candid response would be wonderful.

"We lost the south because it has, statistically, a higher percentage of both conservative voters and African American voters, both of which we performed poorly with"

This is the essence of what Bernie himself has said regarding the south.

Do you think this is racist?

It's all in the tone. Sanders' words at the last debate were:

Bernie said:
Look, let me acknowledge what is absolutely true. Secretary Clinton cleaned our clock in the Deep South. No question about it. We got murdered there. That is the most conservative part of this great country. That's the fact. But you know what? We're out of the Deep South now. And we're moving up.

There's no mention of his campaign "performing poorly". Heck, There's no mention of his campaign doing anything wrong at all, either philosophically or strategically.

There's just the reminder that the South is very Conservative, signaling to viewers that those states are irrelevant in the General Election. Which then begs the questions "If I'm a Southern Democrat, is Sanders taking into account my concerns? Does he care about my issues? If so, why didn't he campaign down here to try to earn my vote? Why is he dogwhistling that my vote doesn't matter anyway?"

I trust that Sanders himself and the vast majority of his supporters aren't intentionally racist, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a lot of Southern Democrats to feel slighted by him.
 

Mael

Member
There is no competition. It is pointless. He isn't going to accomplish anything that he already hasn't by staying in the race.

People want him to quit because it is pointless and would like to see an end/reduction to the friction on the left.

I don't even think anyone really has a problem with him staying in the race if he stops throwing BS at Dems.
If he does as promised and run a positive campaign on issues, he can stay and campaign till November if he wants.

Dude I live in south Georgia black belt. So not really.

That's a variation of the "black friend" defense I haven't seen in a while.
 
There is no competition. It is pointless. He isn't going to accomplish anything that he already hasn't by staying in the race.

People want him to quit because it is pointless and would like to see an end/reduction to the friction on the left.

If I look at it from Bernie's perspective, I think he still wants to push Hillary further left if indeed he's destined to lose, and through debates.

It' admirable he's doing so, but I think it's a bit shortsighted because he's in effect weakening the party as a whole this way because it seems divided rather than something of open discussion between agreeing parties.

Now if it seemed like they agreed on 90% of the issues and took advantage of the spotlight to just discuss major issues at hand without any mudslinging AND on top of that team up to attack Trump, then THAT would be both refreshing and unexpected, and the RNC/Trump would not know what to do.
 
I don't even think anyone really has a problem with him staying in the race if he stops throwing BS at Dems.
.

I dont even disagree with your overall point that he should probably go ahead and just suspend the campaign, but the idea that any criticism of Hillary is "BS" is frankly pretty sad.

She's a human being, she's flawed, he's pointing out her flaws like he should. He's a rival candidate, he isnt her hype man, its not his job to get her elected.
 
I am sure there were a lot of voters who never got the chance to hear Jeb/Rubio/Cruz/O'Malley/ etc. But those candidates can accept reality and do what's best for their party. Bernie doesn't care about the party, only himself

Right and wrong. The Democratic party is important but not more important than a democratic party equip with actual progressive values. It's certainly not more important than democratic principles and keeping one's word.

Jeb/Rubio/Cruz/O'Malley had bullshit to say and are wrong on virtually every issue. Their campaigns were dependent on big-money donors and their inevitable failure meant funds begin to dry up. Their message was also entirely average for a right-wing Republican is a destructive message for America.

Bernie Sander's message is anything but ordinary and needs to reach as many people as possible for the betterment of the American future. If Hillary Clinton is so weak of a candidate that Uncle-at-the-dinner-table, 74-year-old, Socialist, Jew, Bernie sanders costs her a victory against Donald fucking Trump, maybe we shouldn't have voted for her.
 
If I look at it from Bernie's perspective, I think he still wants to push Hillary further left if indeed he's destined to lose, and through debates.

.

I asked this previously and got one half correct half not reply and one rather comical one (like literally funny, not bad response).

Examples of him pushing her left? Examples of leftist ideals his continued presence can shift the DNC on? How does he shift the DNC when they have to now move to appeal to moderates and independents as well?

This argument from the Bernie supporters falls incredibly flat IMO. Maybe one day when the youth he appeals to grows up and votes someone like him can move the needle. I just don't see how he's done it today.
 

Maledict

Member
Can someone explain this article to me that I happened to stumble upon on Twitter?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-g...rs-before-fbi-reveals-findings_b_9836720.html

Like......is this for real? I legit don't know.

(not sure where else to ask this)

Nope. Its HA Goodman. Poligaf has a long running joke about him.

The guy is basically nuts - he's a Clinton equivalent of a birther. He spews forth a torrent of articles saying the same thing constantyl across multiple media outlets.
 

royalan

Member
Lol some of you want him to roll over. Democracy is there for all. If he wants to continue running then I see no problem as long as there are enough people backing him. Really feels warped how some can't handle competition.

Can't handle competition? This hasn't been a competition since South Carolina. From the first moment Hillary pulled ahead, she's left Bernie in the dust.

She's about 300 hundred delegates ahead of Bernie. This isn't the first time she's built that kind of lead. When Bernie's winning streak was at its height (winning 8 of 9 States within a month) it still didn't put him within 200 delegates of Hillary, and in the last two weeks she's completely wiped out his gains.

The only reason Bernie is still in this race is because he continues to fundraise off his donors, not because he's competitive. So he really should cool it on the false attacks if he cares about the party whose nomination he's running for.
 

NsirhC

Member
Couldn't he, like, talk with the DNC and agree to drop out now in exchange for bonus speaking time or something? If he's going to be suggesting measures for the DNC, it seems like it would be to his advantage to not have them ticked off at him.

The DNC and Bernie agree on some things, but ultimately, Bernie wants to essentially dissolve the party system by attacking the concept of capitalism (hear me out).

Had Bernie never said he was socialist, he might have had a shot, but now the DNC doesn't care.

Both parties have many big businesses with their fingers in the parties' pockets; this is why I stopped declaring myself as a democrat. The head of the DNC has been reported to have accepted funding from major alcohol and liquor companies to demonize cannabis despite data supporting its medical usage.

Both parties have fallen down the rabbit hole, but that is just my opinion; I don't expect it to accepted by many, but it upsets me that people think that democrats are angels vs the GOP. Neither party really has truly good intentions IMHO.


I wish the U.S. would get over the whole "party" system...
 
I don't even think anyone really has a problem with him staying in the race if he stops throwing BS at Dems.
If he does as promised and run a positive campaign on issues, he can stay and campaign till November if he wants.

People are flat out mad at him for daring to stay in the race. It's not so hard to assume that people are making up shit as justification.

She's a human being, she's flawed, he's pointing out her flaws like he should. He's a rival candidate, he isnt her hype man, its not his job to get her elected.

Basically this.

We've been so brainwashed into thinking what an election should be that when this stuff starts happening, we throws shitfits.
 

Mael

Member
I dont even disagree with your overall point that he should probably go ahead and just suspend the campaign, but the idea that any criticism of Hillary is "BS" is frankly pretty sad.

She's a human being, she's flawed, he's pointing out her flaws like he should. He's a rival candidate, he isnt her hype man, its not his job to get her elected.

Heh, Clinton has plenty of issues that Sanders can focus on without resorting to BS like the whole 'Money Laundering' BS he used lately to raise money.
I'm perfectly open to actually criticism that isn't born from a radical misunderstanding of how things works.
Most of Sanders criticism this cycle have been utter BS.
He could hammer her about trade or whatever without having to imply she's bought and paid when his record is much more likely to show that than hers.
In the same way if we were following the R campaign I'd be absolutely livid at the level of discourse that side used.
You can shit on Cruz from the right without implying his father killed JFK!
 
It's all in the tone. Sanders' words at the last debate were:



There's no mention of his campaign "performing poorly". Heck, There's no mention of his campaign doing anything wrong at all, either philosophically or strategically.

There's just the reminder that the South is very Conservative, signaling to viewers that those states are irrelevant in the General Election. Which then begs the questions "If I'm a Southern Democrat, is Sanders taking into account my concerns? Does he care about my issues? If so, why didn't he campaign down here to try to earn my vote? Why is he dogwhistling that my vote doesn't matter anyway?"

I trust that Sanders himself and the vast majority of his supporters aren't intentionally racist, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a lot of Southern Democrats to feel slighted by him.

I understand completely why you feel Sander's words didn't entirely consider the feelings of most southern voters. You make a good point, shy of the questionable implication that anything he said relates specifically to African-American voters.

For the record, I don't think his campaign did anything wrong in the south. He focused on the areas he felt he had a shot at and put less effort in other places, as does every single other candidate. This isn't a matter of preference or opinion. Campaigning in states is a great financial undertaking and his campaign did much of what it could given the brief amount of time at their disposal and their opponent's inherent locational advantage.
 

manakel

Member
Bernie knows he won't win. This is his grand gesture at the end of a storied career of public service, his magnum opus. He is energizing and mobilizing the progressive base of the next 4 decades, showing them how they can have a powerful and immediate impact on the political landscape, and the remarkable value of activism.

I think it's beautiful and admirable.

Exactly this. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to realize that he's staying in out of principle to allow all of his voters to have their voices heard in every state - regardless of whether he wins or not. I would imagine that he is well aware that he cannot win at this point. I give him the utmost respect for staying until the very end to keep energizing progressives and young voters,and to encourage them to keep being invested well after this election. If you think he's not going to heavily encourage his voters to vote for Hillary after the primaries are over, then you're a fool.

Though I do find it humorous that so many people in here have continuously referred to him as a "bitter old man" and slinging attacks left and right about how his voters don't understand basic politics or have a comprehension of how math works. And within the same breath.. "b-b-b-ut all these 'BernieBros' are splitting up the party and won't vote for Hillary in the GE!!"...hmmm...

If that is really the case, I'm not sure why they were voting for Bernie in the first place. And I highly doubt that is going to be the case once the GE hits. Even if it does, it will be a drop in the bucket compared to the people that will be voting for Hillary. But please keep pushing that narrative.
 

Piecake

Member
If I look at it from Bernie's perspective, I think he still wants to push Hillary further left if indeed he's destined to lose, and through debates.

It' admirable he's doing so, but I think it's a bit shortsighted because he's in effect weakening the party as a whole this way because it seems divided rather than something of open discussion between agreeing parties.

Now if it seemed like they agreed on 90% of the issues and took advantage of the spotlight to just discuss major issues at hand without any mudslinging AND on top of that team up to attack Trump, then THAT would be both refreshing and unexpected, and the RNC/Trump would not know what to do.

As someone already posted, Bernie pushing her to the left is a myth.

And even if that was true, it doesnt make sense at all in this context. Bernie has absolutely no leverage to get Clinton to move left because Clinton has absolutely no reason to in order to win. The race is over. Why would Clinton move left? For reasons?
 

FyreWulff

Member
The DNC and Bernie agree on some things, but ultimately, Bernie wants to essentially dissolve the party system by attacking the concept of capitalism (hear me out).

Had Bernie never said he was socialist, he might have had a shot, but now the DNC doesn't care.

Both parties have many big businesses with their fingers in the parties' pockets; this is why I stopped declaring myself as a democrat. The head of the DNC has been reported to have accepted funding from major alcohol and liquor companies to demonize cannabis despite data supporting its medical usage.

Both parties have fallen down the rabbit hole, but that is just my opinion; I don't expect it to accepted by many, but it upsets me that people think that democrats are angels vs the GOP. Neither party really has truly good intentions IMHO.


I wish the U.S. would get over the whole "party" system...

Parties will always naturally exist. The problem is the voting method, FPTP, always resulting in 2 parties, not the fact that parties exist.
 
No, different elections. Primary picks dem candidate, general election picks between the dem and rep (and some irrelevants)


Glad to see Bernie stay in. His talk of winning is pretty transparent wishful thinking (to keep people engaged), I'd like to see a gradual shift towards reforming the party. Hard to do that in the midst of primary season though

Others might call that lying and dishonesty
 

Ambient80

Member
Lol some of you want him to roll over. Democracy is there for all. If he wants to continue running then I see no problem as long as there are enough people backing him. Really feels warped how some can't handle competition.

Lol, what competition? He hasn't been competitive really since the first Super Tuesday.
 

Mael

Member
People are flat out mad at him for daring to stay in the race. It's not so hard to assume that people are making up shit as justification.

Basically this.

We've been so brainwashed into thinking what an election should be that when this stuff starts happening, we throws shitfits.

Seriously get out with that.
I don't want to keep reading Sanders attacks on Clinton to, again, for the 1587th time come to the conclusion that it's a shitty ploy to raise money in another chain mail.
I expect more from the Dem race and I don't think it's too much either.
 

damisa

Member
Right and wrong. The Democratic party is important but not more important than a democratic party equip with actual progressive values. It's certainly not more important than democratic principles and keeping one's word.

Jeb/Rubio/Cruz/O'Malley had bullshit to say and are wrong on virtually every issue. Their campaigns were dependent on big-money donors and their inevitable failure meant funds begin to dry up. Their message was also entirely average for a right-wing Republican is a destructive message for America.

Bernie Sander's message is anything but ordinary and needs to reach as many people as possible for the betterment of the American future. If Hillary Clinton is so weak of a candidate that Uncle-at-the-dinner-table, 74-year-old, Socialist, Jew, Bernie sanders costs her a victory against Donald fucking Trump, maybe we shouldn't have voted for her.

That's your opinion. He doesn't get any special privileges just because you like him. I'm sure even Cruz had supporters that thought his message was the only thing important and the only thing stopping the destruction of America. By the way there's nothing special about Bernie's message, it's just populist garbage like Trumps, but without racism
 
Others might call that lying and dishonesty

Others believe all our politicians are space-lizard people who feed off our collective admiration and/or hate for them in unison with our tax dollars.

Thank goodness facts are a thing.

The facts? Bernie acknowledges that his path to the nomination is very slim. Why does he say that? Maybe because it's true. It is unlikely and he acknowledges this. This isn't even an argument.


That's your opinion. He doesn't get any special privileges just because you like him. I'm sure even Cruz had supporters that thought his message was the only thing important and the only thing stopping the destruction of America. By the way there's nothing special about Bernie's message, it's just populist garbage like Trumps, but without racism

Oh man. You just refuted my point by stating it was just my opinion and then followed up by stating your own opinion. Golly. It's almost like everything is opinions.

Except:
It's objectively quite special in the context of American politics, particularly with how well its gained traction among the youth. I think you'd have to be in a peculiar state of denial to disagree with that.
 
Lol some of you want him to roll over. Democracy is there for all. If he wants to continue running then I see no problem as long as there are enough people backing him. Really feels warped how some can't handle competition.

Bernie hasn't been "competition" for months and there aren't enough people backing him. He's just wasting time and money, among other things.
 

Mr Clutch

Member
Not to single you out directly... But basically every one one of his campaign promises requires congressional support.

Which:
A) He apparently doesn't care about
B) Refuses to support down ticket races which could possibly make any of his promises possible.
C) Repeatedly describes this nebulous 'revolution' as some kind of plan.

I don't get it. Even Jake Tapper tried to ask him this question last night, and he dodged that too.


No you are actually incorrect here. Bernie has numerously stated that without Congress there is no way he can achieve what he wants. He is very aware of this. His political revolution isn't about solely him. He coined that to reference the need and urgency to get back the House. I'm not saying electing him will change everything overnight, but it will absolutely be a step in the right direction. We can sit around and let the same crap happen over and over or we can ignite the spark that will jump start some change.
 

ctothej

Member
Bernie Sander's message is anything but ordinary and needs to reach as many people as possible for the betterment of the American future. If Hillary Clinton is so weak of a candidate that Uncle-at-the-dinner-table, 74-year-old, Socialist, Jew, Bernie sanders costs her a victory against Donald fucking Trump, maybe we shouldn't have voted for her.

Bernie's not reaching anyone with his "message" anymore. He's given the same stump speech for over a year. The only difference is his surrogates have now entered an unholy alliance with right wing pundits to paint Hillary as corrupt and dishonest. All this is doing is fueling Trump's campaign in the general, not make her a better candidate. It would be one thing if Bernie still had a shot at winning, but there's no feasible way for him to get the nomination. Hillary is America's best hope for progressive policymaking at this point. So what is Bernie going to accomplish by attacking her?
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Presidential elections aren't about rewarding the candidate for campaigning so hard. It's about us. Millions of people whose lives will be affected in a significant way for decades to come depending on whether Trump or Clinton wins in November.

I don't want Hillary to win because it's "her turn". I want her to win because that's what would give me, my friends, my loved ones, my future children, and hundreds of millions of other people (Bernie Sanders included) the best possible life for the next several decades.

A-fucking-men

If I look at it from Bernie's perspective, I think he still wants to push Hillary further left if indeed he's destined to lose, and through debates.

At this point if he truly cared about pushing Hilary further left, he would be negotiating with her right now. "Endorse my more-left ideals of breaking up the banks and tuition free college and I'll back out and endorse you" would be the way to do that since he has no path to victory. He'd be putting his platform before himself.

He isn't doing that though. He's bitterly continuing this farce for himself, not the people he's supposedly fighting for.
 
The democrats lose elections by going national and refusing to support local candidates that people can actually get excited about. They alienate state parties and local grassroots movements unless they play ball with establishment politics and money. In turn, we see decline in democratic membership and low voter turnout.

The future of the democratic party is not pretty and the party has no one to blame but itself.

Did you intend to highlight exactly what Sanders is currently doing?
 

damisa

Member
It's objectively quite special in the context of American politics, particularly with how well its gained traction among the youth. I think you'd have to be in a peculiar state of denial to disagree with that.

How "special" can the message be since he losing so badly? Maybe you should instead talk about how much more special Hillary's message has to be since it appeals to many more people.

Being a "socialist jew" doesn't mean anything, since we just had our first black president and we are likely about to have our first women one. Hillary is beatable as we've seen with Obama, maybe a socialist jew whose a better candidate could have won, but he wasn't very good
 
Bernie's not reaching anyone with his "message" anymore. He's given the same stump speech for over a year. The only difference is his surrogates have now entered an unholy alliance with right wing pundits to paint Hillary as corrupt and dishonest. All this is doing is fueling Trump's campaign in the general, not make her a better candidate. It would be one thing if Bernie still had a shot at winning, but there's no feasible way for him to get the nomination. Hillary is America's best hope for progressive policymaking at this point. So what is Bernie going to accomplish by attacking her?

Like many have said, it's not about him getting the nomination. It's about spreading his message. You can't fault him for repeating his very specific substantive policies again and again and, in the same breath, claim he's not reaching anyone new. He factually is. You are factually wrong. When Bernie campaigns in a state, his poll numbers go up. Why does this occur? Because some people are learning of his message and choosing to side with him. If everyone already knew of his positions and either agreed or disagreed with it, polling numbers would be static. You know this is obviously not the case, so why bother with this line of reasoning?


How "special" can the message be since he losing so badly? Maybe you should instead talk about how much more special Hillary's message has to be since it appeals to many more people.

um

How 'special' a message is has nothing to do with how well it's received (or even the quality of the message).

I'd be lynched if I spoke of racial equality in 1930s America. That doesn't mean it's a shit idea, does it?

Give it up. That was a blatantly stupid point.
 

Maxim726X

Member
No you are actually incorrect here. Bernie has numerously stated that without Congress there is no way he can achieve what he wants. He is very aware of this. His political revolution isn't about solely him. He coined that to reference the need and urgency to get back the House. I'm not saying electing him will change everything overnight, but it will absolutely be a step in the right direction. We can sit around and let the same crap happen over and over or we can ignite the spark that will jump start some change.

Okay... Then why does he refuse to support the down ticket elections? He would need to start now if he actually wants to implement anything.

And how will it 'spark change' if he can't get anything accomplished during his tenure?
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Like many have said, it's not about him getting the nomination. It's about spreading his message. You can't fault him for repeating his very specific substantive policies again and again and, in the same breath, claim he's not reaching anyone new. He factually is. You are factually wrong. When Bernie campaigns in a state, his poll numbers go up. Why does this occur? Because some people are learning of his message and choosing to side with him. If everyone already knew of his positions and either agreed or disagreed with it, polling numbers would be static. You know this is obviously not the case, so why bother with this line of reasoning?

And at this point, the best way for him to "spread his message" would be to negotiate with Hilary Clinton to push the message and endorse her, since she actually has a chance of winning.

What he's doing now is actually the opposite; he's pushing people away from his message.
 

IrishNinja

Member
H.A. Goodman is for real, as in he's a person who unironically believes what he's typing, but practically nothing about his articles should ever be taken seriously.

Nope. Its HA Goodman. Poligaf has a long running joke about him.

The guy is basically nuts - he's a Clinton equivalent of a birther. He spews forth a torrent of articles saying the same thing constantyl across multiple media outlets.

ya'll are missing some enlightenment in the comments section, though
 
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