Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
That's probably why Noah does better with minorities who are generally reliant on gallows humor for sanity.
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Salon: Trevor Noah will never, ever be good at his job also, thanks a lot for Trump
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That's probably why Noah does better with minorities who are generally reliant on gallows humor for sanity.
Trevor Noah's doing a decent job. He's just in a gargantuan shadow and setting out to do his own thing.
Honestly IMO that thing isn't far enough from waht Jon was doing, it just looks like a pale imitation, one that will never become a better imitation because it's not what he wants to do.
Overall I don't think he was the best choice, but hindsight and all. Any choice could have turned out similarly. But I do think chosing a non-american was sort of kneecapping itself before it even started. It feels like his jokes are so surface level obvious stuff, things that you've heard being said by funny internet commentators... not deep observations by someone who knows the material in and out and can see the forest for the trees so to speak.
Again, he's fine, its just that we're left with a giant hole where Stewart's insights and wit used to be.
Honestly IMO that thing isn't far enough from waht Jon was doing, it just looks like a pale imitation, one that will never become a better imitation because it's not what he wants to do.
Overall I don't think he was the best choice, but hindsight and all. Any choice could have turned out similarly. But I do think chosing a non-american was sort of kneecapping itself before it even started. It feels like his jokes are so surface level obvious stuff, things that you've heard being said by funny internet commentators... not deep observations by someone who knows the material in and out and can see the forest for the trees so to speak.
Again, he's fine, its just that we're left with a giant hole where Stewart's insights and wit used to be.
I agree - I hate when my comedy shows have too many jokes in them.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Isn't Trevor Noah the only one they've asked who accepted the job? Everyone else declined it.
And I would also say this, Trevor is at his best when he makes comparisons with South Africa and uses his experience from that. It's good to see things from another perspective.
And I would also say this, Trevor is at his best when he makes comparisons with South Africa and uses his experience from that. It's good to see things from another perspective.
I'm not sure what will change though? He has given plenty of interviews and his views about how the show should and will be run seem to be set. Same goes for what he thinks people want out of the show.
Which to me have been at odds with what I as a viewer wanted and it would seem given the drop in ratings others seem to feel the same way. He seems almost disinterested in the sort of comedic activism, and semi-journalistic creep of his predecessor and their is a superficialness to his commentary that combined with not the best jokes falls flat for me most nights.
He wants to do his own thing, which is fine. It just hasn't really resonated with me enough to keep going with it.
It's possible to make convincing, sincere, impactful jokes from a place of anger and resentment (see Bill Hicks) and not completely give in to hopeless cynicism. If believe you're on the right side of an issue, you don't have to pre-suppose your own defeat.
The thing about wanting TDS to stay as some sort of hard-hitting expose on politics in America is that Jon himself would probably tell you that TDS shouldn't need to be that.
You shouldn't need TDS to give a fuck about the fucked up stuff that's going on in the world. You shouldn't need TDS to find out about these issues. You shouldn't need TDS to educate yourself. You shouldn't need TDS to convince people to get off their asses and work to fix this shit.
This is exactly why I dropped the show
I made the mistake of marathoning a bunch of clips on YouTube and the formula made itself pretty distractingly apparent.
Frozenprince
Banned
Well if you... *sees it's salon* oh nevermind I should have known it was worth ignoring.
He's had, what, 8 months of actually running the show? A nightly talk show needs to find it's balance, he needs to find his voice and identity to the public, just like Stewart did.
It'll happen. Just gotta let him do it. Cycling through another host isn't gonna make it better because they'll need the same learning curve. His voice and experiences are ones you're not going to get from anybody else.
Right now he's doing what Stewart did when he took over the show, emulating almost entirely the tone, format and style of what it was. Give it time for him to make it his own show, and it'll be great.
He's had, what, 8 months of actually running the show? A nightly talk show needs to find it's balance, he needs to find his voice and identity to the public, just like Stewart did.
It'll happen. Just gotta let him do it. Cycling through another host isn't gonna make it better because they'll need the same learning curve. His voice and experiences are ones you're not going to get from anybody else.
Right now he's doing what Stewart did when he took over the show, emulating almost entirely the tone, format and style of what it was. Give it time for him to make it his own show, and it'll be great.
It's a comedy show. Why do people need TDS to make them care about what's going on in this country? A lot of Stewart's stuff was pretty grim, too.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Well, the country lost something when Jon left because he was always the one I looked forward to hearing from the most whenever something important happened.
That rant he had after the Garner decision is essential viewing. Trevor Noah probably will never be that for American viewers and that's okay.
That rant he had after the Garner decision is essential viewing. Trevor Noah probably will never be that for American viewers and that's okay.
I don't need a softball comedy show either. I don't need TV in general. I do like satire and I like the sort of comedic journalism that Jon Stewart really brought to prominence.
Not sure what point this response is intended to serve? The show isnt awful, its better then a lot of crap out there, if its on I will play it in the background while doing other things. I don't seek it out and watch TDS anymore though. I do for Oliver and Bee. Wilmore is more hit then miss but I also have never liked those sort of panel type shows that are often populated by people I don't care about their opinions and hot takes.
What makes you think thats what is going on? And not that people who care seek out the Daily Show for various reasons or just liked the comedy?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm getting really sick of Salon and TheAtlantics shitty articles. They remind me of The Verge. In between there is some cool stuff, but most of the time I am left feeling more irritated. Trevor Noah is not bad at his job. I just don't think this is his format.
Frozenprince
Banned
After the last major terror attack Stewart covered he just sat there and basically said everything is fucked up and will probably never get better to no music for 10 minutes.
It was dark.
I love everybody citing the ratings tanking.
Yeah, you could have replaced Stewart and Colbert with a talking dog and cat who made pitch perfect impressions of over 2000 people and the ratings still were gonna crater. People stopped watching TDS and the Raport, they watched Stewart and Colbert, there was a very clear, obvious distinction.
That's basically what I'm getting at - it sounds like the core issue of people's problems is that Trevor isn't a Jon Stewart clone. Well, you're not going to get one and you're never going to get one, so it seems pretty silly to want to kick him out for that.
I'd rather have someone do their own thing than have someone try (and fail) to mimic Stewart's style.
You've basically got Jon Stewart's TDS 2.0 in Oliver's show if that's the only comedy style you're interested in.
Colbert yes, TDS probably a bit less.
TDS was primarily Jon but it was also the assembly line of great comedic talent and interesting pieces the show put out consistently throughout its run.
I remember the whole TDS re-watch thread and one of the main discussions throughout the whole thing was the different correspondents and the pieces they did. It seemed to be where A LOT of the nostalgia was contained. So I think had Noah hit the right balance, I don't think a near 40% drop was inevitable.
Noah was actually handed some pretty good correspondents, Roy Woods Jr. was a great addition for instance, the materiel though hasn't been nearly as strong as time has gone on.
That's kind of the difference though, isn't it? When Stewart was grim, he was grim. You felt it. If Noah is ever grim, his delivery is still of the "Haha we're all screwed but let's try to pretend it doesn't matter" variety.
I feel pretty grim about the grim stuff Trevor jokes about regardless. I don't really need him to point that out to me.
I mean, the whole Trump thing is fucking awful, making some jokes about the ridiculousness of it isn't going to change that.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You can totally replace Stewart. You just can't replace him with Trevor Noah. Guy just doesn't have it.
That said, the suggestion that Trump is the nominee because he sucks is as asinine as it gets.
That said, the suggestion that Trump is the nominee because he sucks is as asinine as it gets.
Big Baybee
Member
I actually think Noah is ok. I thought he'd be awful. I watched some of his standup before he was ever being considered for the TDS and really hated it. Oliver's show is fucking great. Haven't gotten around to watching Sam Bee.
Quit being dismissive and assumptive. I gave Noah a pretty good chance. I think most did outside of those like Salon that clearly had it out for him. I was actually in most of the Noah threads defending the hire and in the original thread making a number of positive, hopeful statements. So don't give me this shit about me having unrealistic expectations you have no clue about.
For me personally, its that when you take away the underlying focus of the show that delivered strong commentary and good journalistic pieces with a comedic bite, you have to make something else compelling. Be it better interviews, a new spin with good results or just being plan funnier then the sum of the parts that came before it. Unfortunately that isnt what happened for me. What happened was I lost most of the underlying stuff that added depth, uniqueness and layers to the show that made the Stewart show more then most comedy shows and gave me something when the jokes weren't hitting as hard. What it was replaced with has effectively just been a slow creep toward just another superficial comedy show with a so-so host but more political talk. It's ok. Occasionally funny, not that thought provoking, even worse interviews. If I want that sort of comedy I find myself clicking on the Colbert Late Show on my DVR over TDS.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I hope people idolizing Stewart aren't/weren't also laughing off Trump's run for president
I wasn't talking about you specifically, for the record - more the thread in general.
You still get all that stuff from Oliver. Trevor might eventually steer the show in that direction too, but it took Stewart a while to figure it out - not sure why Trevor would be any different.
Again, I'm not saying you need to watch it if it's not doing it for you, but kicking him out already seems pretty unreasonable.
This post is ridiculous.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The problem is Trevor barely registers. Agree or disagree with Jon, he was notable, charismatic. Trevor's is bland and barely recognizable.
I don't give a shit wethere you eviscerate republicans or are friends with them.
It's like Conan vs Kimmel. I couldn't make up Kimmel in a lineup of comedians and neither could make Trevor.
I don't give a shit wethere you eviscerate republicans or are friends with them.
It's like Conan vs Kimmel. I couldn't make up Kimmel in a lineup of comedians and neither could make Trevor.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Did a bunch of the writers leave with Stewart?
Trevor just tells jokes like he has no skin in the game. He seemingly doesn't care about American politics or the media to anywhere near the same degree as Jon. Sam Bee does, and that's why her show is so good.
Like i said, he's still on my DVR. Probably not for much longer though. I find myself turning it off or changing programs every time I try and watch it.
I just don't know what people expect to change. The article was shit mostly but one point they did make seems to be holding true. Lots of defenders keep pleading for people to give Noah a chance to grow into the role. Implying he is likely to get where Jon Stewart is and conceding the show isnt to that quality yet.
And I would say, Noah has made it pretty clear he doesnt view the show the way Stewart grew to see it. So I am not sure what people expect it to turn into? He seems happy and content and even a bit defensive with playing the show more superficially.
I think Trevor is fine for basic news delivery and the correspondents have all picked up the slack to retain a bit more of the bite that Stewart had and Noah can't quite manage. It's actually a good thing from that perspective - I felt like in later seasons of TDS under Stewart (and after Oliver and Colbert left) they just weren't investing enough in correspondent coverage. But now they've got a good crew back on board and it's the main reason I still watch.
But Trevor is just legit terrible at interviews and I cringe to watch him doing it, if I'm still watching at that point.
But Trevor is just legit terrible at interviews and I cringe to watch him doing it, if I'm still watching at that point.
Retromelon
Member
Could you recall an example, because I never noticed it. I always thought he did fine. That he just is not as funny as stewart is my problem with the guy.
Bee and Oliver definitely took the right lessons from the few areas TDS really kept a blind spot too.
Stewart managed to keep the interviews tolerable enough over the years because he dropped the celebrity stuff for the most part and just brought on interesting guests or interesting debate partners. Noah has gone back to the worst era of the Stewart show which was just the bad celebrity interviews with people he had no relationship with.
I don't think people are saying give it time because it might turn in to Stewart 2.0. People are saying give it time because it will probably get better in general, and because it seems a bit unfair to give him the boot for essentially being the only one willing to fill in after a legend left.
I don't see a problem with the show taking a different tone, personally. We're probably going to have to agree to disagree there.
I don't think he was the only one willing to fill in lol.
I have no deal-breaking problem with him taking a different tone. I have a problem with that different direction not being all that entertaining, interesting or funny consistently. He seems to be comfortable with where the show is at. Its not resonating with me. I don't know why it is such a problem to some that they are giving up?
The thing with Stewart's Daily Show is that Noah defenders seem to be re-writting history a bit. His show certainly evolved into different forms, especially leading up to and after the Iraq invasion, but pretty quickly the show was hilarious on its own terms at the time.
Oliver, Colbert and Bee have all managed to produce funny, compelling shows almost out of the gate. Stewart really gets a pass because he was the pioneer. Noah had a well-oiled machine laid out before him. His contemporaries have mostly hit the ground running.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ironically Stewart is also unwilling to blame Trump supporters for his rise either... he blamed Democrats lol.
I started tuning in recently (like a month ago) and I have been really enjoying it. I dropped Stewart and Colbert around the same time John Oliver premiered because the two of them were just doing the same damn schtick over and over again.
Trevor himself is entertaining, but I don't care for the long form parody new corespondent sections. Those are just dumb. I usually skip the interviews too. The first half of episodes are usually pretty good though.
Trevor himself is entertaining, but I don't care for the long form parody new corespondent sections. Those are just dumb. I usually skip the interviews too. The first half of episodes are usually pretty good though.
News these days can be depressingly difficult to digest without a nice joke to smooth it into my ears. That's what shows like TDS provide. I don't "need" TDS to to do that stuff, but it sure did season that news nicely for consumption.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'd cite the fact that while Stewart ran the Daily Show Bush got elected, re-elected and the Democrats lost the house in 2010 and the Senate in 2014.
Stewart couldnt prevent any of that and nor should he have been expected to.
I'll cite that Fox News couldn't stop Obama from being elected to two terms. Rush Limbaugh and Conservative talk radio couldn't stop Bill Clinton from getting elected twice.
I guess Fox News and Conservative Talk radio has not been influential in any meaningful way.....Or are we just being really lazy at analyzing this question of influence?
I'm gonna go with the latter. Not sure what level of influence Stewart deserves credit for, but I certainly know it is utterly ridiculous to make the finality of that judgement based off presidential elections. No one has ever argued Stewart is some sort of king maker in politics. Heck I'm not sure such lofty qualifications for what constitutes as influence have ever been met in TV media?
excelsiorlef
Member
Well that'd be difficult since Fox News started in October 1996....
Here's the thing. The biggest influence politically Stewart could have had is getting the youth out to vote in midterms. Didn't happen.
This idea that Jon Stewart had political influence is unsubstantiated. He also didn't stop the numerous state level GOP victories.
Jon Stewart was a hillarious, intelligent, political commentator. He redifined talk TV for sure. But political influence to the level claimed in that Salon article and this thread? Sorry no hard evidence
What would be difficult? Why didn't Fox News stop Obama? Guess no influence? Conservative talk radio must be meaningless in influence otherwise, why Bill Clinton? I'm just applying your logic to things that pretty much any American agrees has been a meaningful influence in political discourse to show the absurdity of your premise.
And if you are going to discredit Stewart for not getting voters out for recent midterms, does he get credit for getting them out on 2006?
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...-turnout-sharply-up-in-2006-midterm-elections
Or again, is this sort of ridiculous correlational game just that, ridiculous? And that influence is a much more complex thing to determine then pointing at elections and making ridiculous correlational fallacies and assumptions? The thing is, like Fox News and conservative radio, nailing down how influential they are is incredibly difficult. Even more difficult is determining how effective what influence they do have is at getting people out to vote. Not to mention the entire notion that influence should be linked to voter turnout as a measuring post. Which seems a little silly.
I don't know how influential Stewart was or not. I do know that I would be foolish to base that on voter turnout and no other context. Just like I would be doing the same for Fox News or Limbaugh.
Well said.
Eyemus Lutt
Member
I'm someone who thinks Trevor is a funnier person than Jon Stewart, but the political bits were funnier with Jon because he understood it more.
Sam Bee's new show is really shit. I found her funny in the daily show but she can't carry a show by herself just like the black dude with glasses who got his own show.
Oliver's show is great except every time he interjects with a funny bit or quip. The research and stories on his show are fantastic but every time he's meant to say random joke it's just never funny.
Sam Bee's new show is really shit. I found her funny in the daily show but she can't carry a show by herself just like the black dude with glasses who got his own show.
Oliver's show is great except every time he interjects with a funny bit or quip. The research and stories on his show are fantastic but every time he's meant to say random joke it's just never funny.
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