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Salon: Trevor Noah will never, ever be good at his job also, thanks a lot for Trump
- Thread starter TrumanBurbank
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Because someone wanted to make a ridiculous correlation/causation fallacy and Fox News and Conservative talk radio are a good way of exposing the flaw in that line of logic.
excelsiorlef
Member
It's one of many arguments I could make.
Fox news has redfined political news coverage and not in a good way. They absolutely inspire their base to go out and vote.
Gop turnout is never a problem, Democratic turn out frequently is.
I was merely showing an example of where Stewart wasn't influential politically.
Which btw is a waste of time anyway because the onus is on those making the positive statement.
I mean this thread title literally claims Stewart would have stopped Trump.
The onus is actually on you to prove that election results and voter turnout is a key and required indicator of societal influence or lack thereof. You are the one making that leap and assuming a lack of a particular outcome is an indicator of a lack of influence. Not me.
I'm merely the one saying there is no basis for such leaps and the logic in and of itself is flawed.
excelsiorlef
Member
More it was also a counter argument to the thread title and part of the article which argues that Stewart would have stopped Trump.
To which a valid retort is to say that Stewart didnt stop anything really in his run, and again nor should he have ever been expected to.
The leading cause of Democratic failure is turn out, specifically youth turn out. Stewart's popularity amongst that same demographic did not translate to consistent reversal of this major issue.
Which again is fine because he was a popular comedian with a popular political comedy show
And before you cite 2006 and 2008 turnout they directly coincide with two things fuck Bush and Omg Obama.
Again I'm not saying this is the only evidence just that it's clear he had no impact there.
But hey at least I'm trying to argue my point. Anyone want to actually put forward an argument as to why he was?
swearing-circle
Member
Trevor Noah was a real gem on British panel shows. He was one of the best comics to appear in an otherwise obnoxious, predictable line up. His stand up was really great as well. Shame he isn't being too well received.
You don't get to just assign causation without evidence. You continue to rest on the unsubstantiated premise that influence can be effectively measured by voter turnout. Which is ridiculous for a number of reasons.
You continue to want to claim Stewart had little to no influence for not getting people out when turnout is low and make excuses for why he had no impact when your metric was born out in the indicators you wanted to use to discredit him.. Its ridiculous. As already pointed out, that same thing can be leveled at Conservative media. Which is setting aside you are literally just shooting at the hip with this shit and seemingly building around an already determined conclusion.
Just be smart dude. Just say there is no evidence Stewart's show could of stopped Trump's rise. Which is objectively true. What, if any influence Stewart's show had on the national discourse and socially is inconclusive due to lack of strong evidence. Quit with all the hyperbole and declarations of fact and conclusion that are neither.
Level of influence from political commentary and media is not so easy to determine, so lets drop the silliness hmm? Salon was silly for their inference but the people making the opposite case as if it is proven, like you, are the other side to that coin.
Uhh, this is some stupid shit.
It is this sort of misguided worship that exasperated Stewart to no end.
Trevor is fine. He lacks any actual stakes in the game, so that is disappointing, but he is good for a decent laugh at times. And that is fine. He does not have to be more.
Samantha Bee and John Oliver are both the true inheritor's to Stewart's Throne and their chosen formats allow them to do more collective good than Stewart was ever able to do with what his show saddled him with.
Anyone that seriously thinks the political left is in dire straits because Stewart is no longer around should not be taken seriously in ANY capacity.
It is this sort of misguided worship that exasperated Stewart to no end.
Trevor is fine. He lacks any actual stakes in the game, so that is disappointing, but he is good for a decent laugh at times. And that is fine. He does not have to be more.
Samantha Bee and John Oliver are both the true inheritor's to Stewart's Throne and their chosen formats allow them to do more collective good than Stewart was ever able to do with what his show saddled him with.
Anyone that seriously thinks the political left is in dire straits because Stewart is no longer around should not be taken seriously in ANY capacity.
excelsiorlef
Member
Fair enough.
Aren't we a little bit too harsh on Trevor?
That Guy is new to the game. How could anyone expect him to be Stewart level right from the get go?
With that said, he does have some issues. For example the mentioned over reliance on comedy over seriousness. You just don't feel that those issues are important to Noah. I know just said to not expect Stewart level stuff from him, but even with no bite you can give the impression that the issue at hand is important to you.
The second big thing is his status as outsider. I'd say he's even more of an outsider than John Oliver, because Oliver had a long time as correspondant on TDS before getting his own show. Noah seemed to have appeared just a few months before it was decided to make him the replacement.
Noah has to spend his private time understanding American politics before he goes all in. But then again, looking at how broken Stewart was at the end of his run, I can imagine Noah not being willing to end up like him...
That Guy is new to the game. How could anyone expect him to be Stewart level right from the get go?
With that said, he does have some issues. For example the mentioned over reliance on comedy over seriousness. You just don't feel that those issues are important to Noah. I know just said to not expect Stewart level stuff from him, but even with no bite you can give the impression that the issue at hand is important to you.
The second big thing is his status as outsider. I'd say he's even more of an outsider than John Oliver, because Oliver had a long time as correspondant on TDS before getting his own show. Noah seemed to have appeared just a few months before it was decided to make him the replacement.
Noah has to spend his private time understanding American politics before he goes all in. But then again, looking at how broken Stewart was at the end of his run, I can imagine Noah not being willing to end up like him...
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Aasif Mandvi would have been my dream host. Can't believe CC never asked him to host it.
Noah is ok, nothing great yet (but was Stewart himself Y1?). Sam Bee is the only one who really does a Stewart style show these days, and hers is by far the best. Oliver's seems to get stuff changed which is amazing, but man does a lot of his comedy material fall flat.
Noah is ok, nothing great yet (but was Stewart himself Y1?). Sam Bee is the only one who really does a Stewart style show these days, and hers is by far the best. Oliver's seems to get stuff changed which is amazing, but man does a lot of his comedy material fall flat.
I don't like Noah's show, and I stick to John Oliver, Samantha Bee, and occasionally The Onion (which has gone downhill recently) for my political satire, but this article really seems to have it out for the guy. I mean, his show's not very good. I get that. But Stewart's not coming back. Colbert's not coming back. It's time to move on.
Yeah. More importantly, it is time to grow up.
I knew of an uncomfortable amount of people who essentially relied on the TDS to stay abreast with politics.
That is insane.
He was a real gem.
My first exposure to Noah was from watching panel shows. His style of wit and ability to improv worked well with that type of show format.
Langdon Alger
Banned
I never liked The Daily Show much when it had Jon Stewart. He was too smug, sounded too much like a preacher and used too much choir-speak. And, toward the end, most of his "jokes" were just mugging at the camera.
You're confused, you're saying Jon Stewart when you mean Bill Maher.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Personally I think all the late night guys are responsible for Trump. They ignored him and so let all his shit, lies and racsism go unchecked. John Oliver did that great segment on Trump, but only after months of not talking about him.
No way would Stewart have left his antics unchecked for so long.
No way would Stewart have left his antics unchecked for so long.
The people who are voting for Trump aren't Stewart or Oliver's audience.
It's silly to blame them for this, this shit is on the GOP.
Three weeks here. Never looked back.
Also this. Last Week and Sam Bee are leagues ahead of TDS
I like Larry's show better myself, in the end it comes off as more real to me. I hate the sketches but I'm not a fan of skits really in any of the shows.
tycoonheart
Member
No it wasn't a joke. Craig Killborn had actually done a very decent job with it.
DragonSworne
Banned
Should have replaced Stewart with someone that atleast understands or is interested in US politics.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Idk I love the show. I enjoy Trevor's inherently more optimistic world view to Jon's inherent cynicism that was very off putting in the later years
Trevor understands and cares about us politics though...
Vincent Grayson
Member
Trevor just isn't funny to me. At all.
I tried watching a few of his specials around when he was starting on TDS, and found nothing to like there. And his hosting has been equally bland.
Maybe someday he'll turn into a great host, but for now, I can't bring myself to bother watching TDS anymore. As others have said, Oliver and Bee have basically filled that niche better than I suspect Trevor Noah ever will.
I tried watching a few of his specials around when he was starting on TDS, and found nothing to like there. And his hosting has been equally bland.
Maybe someday he'll turn into a great host, but for now, I can't bring myself to bother watching TDS anymore. As others have said, Oliver and Bee have basically filled that niche better than I suspect Trevor Noah ever will.
WaterAstro
Member
Well, there's John Oliver.
But too bad there isn't someone that can replace Colbert's republican character.
But too bad there isn't someone that can replace Colbert's republican character.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
I've seen the daily show here and there this election cycle, he's simply not good
Thankfully bill maher is around still
Thankfully bill maher is around still
I'll be honest, Stewart had several meh episodes whenever I tuned into the Daily Show where he was basically just going,"LOOK AT HOW CRAZY THE GOP/CONSERVATIVES ARE!". Oh some were far more nuanced and entertaining than other segments but I never felt he was as amazing as everyone made him out to be. If anything it was his timing and wit that really sold me on him.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Prototype Viktor
Member
People already forgot about the every episode stream and how bad the beginning was and how people only really wanted to see the election segment creation and the post 9/11 shows
jetsetnickradio
Member
That's a bit harsh. Sure, Noah is no Stewart, but I think they still do a fine job with the show. But Last Week Tonight and The Late Show have replaced The Daily Show as my favorite political comedy talk shows.
It also doesn't help that The Daily Show doesn't upload as many clips to Youtube as LWT and LSSC do (I don't pay for Cable.)
It also doesn't help that The Daily Show doesn't upload as many clips to Youtube as LWT and LSSC do (I don't pay for Cable.)
n00bsauce87
Member
This really should be on the OP because it is the basis of the article and the title of where they got their data from was:
"Trevor Noah has cratered “The Daily Show”: He has no bite, no message — and has let Fox News off the hook"
The entire article was biased against Noah (be it true statements given or not). How do you expect to get a non-biased comment to take credible data from after reading it?
The article is stupid for trying to insert scientific data and statistics from a biased point of view.
Please don't take it seriously
Diprosalic
Banned
i went on a Daily Show with Stewart binge a few days ago, man i miss him.
Darryl M R
Member
Sorry if I'm repeating things that have been said; I read through the thread on mobile and I had a lot of thoughts on this topic.
- Stewart had a huge impact on politics and in informing the public on issues. He made people care about topics that they just learned about. He is the reason why Crossfire, a fear mongering tv show, was canceled.
- Trevor already had the deck stacked against him, he was replacing Stewart and he was a non-American
- Trevor's attitude of "Wow look how crazy America is with these laws, lulz, oh well you guys should figure that out." Instead of "Wow look how crazy America is with these laws, lulz, but WE should fix this and demand more from our government."
- Stewart was not that popular before the Obama administration, he found his voice around that time BUT he had Colbert to lean on and if you didn't like one of them you probably liked the other.
- Trevor doesn't have another show to lean on and he just doesn't have enough time to find his voice. Ratings will sink and I believe by the time he is comfortable with the role the show might get canceled.
spons
Gold Member
I heard him making a remark about Dutch politicians riding bicycles which "isn't cool" according to him, cue laugh track. Was done with him at that point.
That's not a personal problem I have with him - not riding bicycles to school or work is one of the reasons why so many Americans are obese. It's a stupid joke, painfully delivered.
That's not a personal problem I have with him - not riding bicycles to school or work is one of the reasons why so many Americans are obese. It's a stupid joke, painfully delivered.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yes and this takes time, I don't understand why people were hating on Trevor's show from day one. He is only acting as a replacement for Stewart now and it'll take more time for him to make the show his own.
Diprosalic
Banned
CC fucked up not locking him or Colbert down for the Daily Show before they got big offers elsewhere. I'm sure John Oliver would've accepted if offered.
benicillin
Banned
Who cares about Trevor Noah, we have John Oliver and Samantha Bee carrying the torch in their own way.
HamPster PamPster
Member
But Trevor introduced the nation to Roy Woods Jr. Checkmate Salon
In more positive news, Trevor has a good interview on NPR last Friday - http://onpoint.wbur.org/2016/05/13/daily-show-host-trevor-noah
In more positive news, Trevor has a good interview on NPR last Friday - http://onpoint.wbur.org/2016/05/13/daily-show-host-trevor-noah
I knew plenty of people that felt this way out of the gate. I told them to keep watching, he has his own vibe going. It'll take some time.
...soon enough I stopped watching as well.
Noah's problem is the medium is absolutely bloated with programs featuring more established hosts. Everyone is vying for thst small portion of the pie.
...soon enough I stopped watching as well.
Noah's problem is the medium is absolutely bloated with programs featuring more established hosts. Everyone is vying for thst small portion of the pie.
TheSlySoul
Member
Yeah, I tried to give Noah a fair chance, but he is not that entertaining. John Oliver makes me laugh every single time. Samantha is hit or miss, but when she hits it is still better than Noah.
Pretty much, we got 5 shows that tackle news. Colbert is not bad from what I watched as he is still quick witted.
Colbert's show on CBS has some of the best political commentary and satire in the business right now. He took basically all of his writers with him, the only thing that's changed is that he's no longer playing a character, but he's still saying the same basic things. He's probably the most political late-night host on television, though Seth Myers has been edging into the arena just because he has a later timeslot and can do whatever he wants.
JetBlackPanda
Member
No offense to Noah but Oliver is king.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Nah, that was Last Comic Standing.
Salon has gone off the deep end in recent years. It's like the liberal Townhall.com right now.
Well I mean a huge portion of the country relies on Fox News shows like Hannity to stay abreast with politics, so is it time for those people to grow up too? Truth is that cable television except maybe CSPAN has become a terrible place to get your news. You can't really call people children for relying on shows like TDS when it's simply a different alternative to the shit options on other networks.
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