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GameSpot: No Playable Female Character in new Zelda [UP: Additional Comments in OP]
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
Razzorn34
Member
Pretty much how I see it. It appears really simple to me.
Apparently, it's much easier to say that Nintendo is evil, and has an agenda to keep women down.
I play women whenever they are available, in just about any game. Should Nintendo have more female leads? Sure. But that doesn't mean a long time male character suddenly needs to be female to check a box. I'm sure Nintendo is listening. There will probably be a side game starring Zelda sometime. But, then people will just complain that it isn't the main Zelda series. Oh well.
The brains responsible for this reasoning:
Ok, even if they didn't want to change the story, because "Zelda is kidnapped" was probably the first sentence on that white board, present a new female character:
"Hey here's url, she's link's cousin, also a friend of zelda, you can choose to play as either Link or her. If you chose url, link will be sick and stay at home. Don't worry he'll meet you eventually at various points of your journey and will help you in the final battle after you rescued Zelda."
Ok, even if they didn't want to change the story, because "Zelda is kidnapped" was probably the first sentence on that white board, present a new female character:
"Hey here's url, she's link's cousin, also a friend of zelda, you can choose to play as either Link or her. If you chose url, link will be sick and stay at home. Don't worry he'll meet you eventually at various points of your journey and will help you in the final battle after you rescued Zelda."
url is no homo we promise, she's rescuing Zeld because they're friends.
WrenchNinja
Member
nintendo continually allows you to rename the character, gives no real characterization, admits that he's just an avatar, and shoves skyward sword's shitty reincarnation throwaway ending down people's throats. Sounds like it is their fault.
truestatic
Member
The bottom line about what #LinkCould have done is that no one interested in playable Zelda really cares. Whatever #LinkCould, that's just an ancillary concern. They're a bajillion times more interested in what #ZeldaCould. Better off with that I think.
Let's be clear, I wasn't being vague when I said pandering because that's what it would've been and I would've been okay with the decision had they done it. I still like the Zelda led Zelda game idea more.
The simplest option is making Princess Zelda the lead? While I'd definitely enjoy that, it's hardly the simplest option, holy shit. Link is such a barebones self-insert that making him female or providing players an option would be braindead easy. This is almost as bad as their explanation for why there was no playable female characters in Tri Force Heroes -- namely that the in-game prophesy specified men, so what can you do? Which was an incredibly asinine pile of garbage. Oh well, maybe next time.
Ah okay, I thought you were upset at something I had said! Shit I should have been in on that bet. Could have fed my soda addiction for a week with that kind of money!
beef also was almost gonna bet me on it as well but he backed out!
you literally coulda had my money if you were there, lol, I was so confident in this bet
A Link to the Past
Banned
I would never want Samus or Lara Croft to be anything other than a female. Why do people demand Link change?
Because Link to them is not male as a rule
Isn't is disgusting when people care about gender in a video game? It's perfectly okay to not want to buy a game for it's level design, story, art style, gameplay, control, graphics, music, etc.
But not wanting it because of reasons related to gender? sickening. blasphemous. obviously these people are not REAL gamers. /s
stufte
Member
Most Metroid games you don't ever see her gender, so why does it matter?
JayBabay
Member
Like Nintendo recently specified this, or the general consensus in gaming society as of late has taken to this school of thought, that Link is not male or female?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Well atleast in this game the Narrator says his name. You not naming nobody.
Amen.
Aonuma buddy, listen to me....do you and your team not possess that magical thing storytellers like to refer to as an imagination? A means to imagine a story that could easily differentiate itself from the kind of story you've told us about a hundred times before? I mean, for example, if you seriously wanted to make Zelda the main character of the series for a change....
-Link could have been....a childhood friend, who would travel with Zelda as a travelling companion in her journey across Hyrule (whether as a dual-protagonist or an unplayable sidekick).
-Link could have been....a celebrated prince of Hyrule who would get kidnapped or imprisoned by Ganon (with Zelda having to rescue him, in a reversal of the traditional LoZ dynamic)
Link could have beena beloved royal protector who Princess Zelda has become particularly fond of, only to mysteriously disappear one night when dark forces steal into Hyrule Castle, thus speaking off Princess Zelda's adventure out into Hyrule as she is determined to learn the truth about his disappearance.
-Link could have been....an older character from what we're normally used to, a seasoned adventurer, who would serve as a metaphor figure for a younger Zelda.
-Link could have been...Zelda's father, a retired adventurer who hung up the green tunic long ago, but who quietly encourages his daughter's fierce rebellious streak as she goes out into the world to have her own adventures.
In my eyes, Aonuma's words here don't so much speak to his staggeringly lack of creativity and imagination when it came to the task developing a new kind of story for this game, but his inability to envision a narrative that would exist out of the traditional rescuing hero/damsel in distress dynamic that has become so ingrained in the series as a whole, which only serves to speak as a fundamental failure on his part as a storyteller.
To them, everything is male as a rule.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Actually every game you see her gender
But seriously, for better or for worse, Samus is defined to some extent by gender.
truestatic
Member
Ninty has said Link is an avatar. I don't think they've ever specifically said "Link isn't male" or "Link could be either."
People like to unpack the avatar statement, though.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Holy leap of logic Skeeter
IronicSonic
Member
That statement is just disgraceful
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
Yep. Again, that's exactly what I said. You're really putting words into peoples mouths with these posts.
Nintendo making a female Link and pushing out the new Zelda game with a cool character because they want to = awesome.
People expecting/demanding that this be the case and getting mad when it doesn't happen = not awesome.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
You mean like Linkle?
Nintendo already did it ☆〜（ゝ。∂）
Because Samus stands out as one of the few iconic female character in a long history of mostly male icons. Changing Samus's gender would be balancing the scales even further in favor of the demographic that already dominates video games. It's not at all comparable to making a male character female, especially a mute avatar-like character such as Link.
……forgetit
Member
Aonuma buddy, listen to me....do you and your team not possess that magical thing storytellers like to refer to as an imagination? A means to imagine a story that could easily differentiate itself from the kind of story you've told us about a hundred times before? I mean, for example, if you seriously wanted to make Zelda the main character of the series for a change....
-Link could have been....a childhood friend, who would travel with Zelda as a travelling companion in her journey across Hyrule (whether as a dual-protagonist or an unplayable sidekick).
-Link could have been....a celebrated prince of Hyrule who would get kidnapped or imprisoned by Ganon (with Zelda having to rescue him, in a reversal of the traditional LoZ dynamic)
Link could have beena beloved royal protector who Princess Zelda has become particularly fond of, only to mysteriously disappear one night when dark forces steal into Hyrule Castle, thus speaking off Princess Zelda's adventure out into Hyrule as she is determined to learn the truth about his disappearance.
-Link could have been....an older character from what we're normally used to, a seasoned adventurer, who would serve as a metaphor figure for a younger Zelda.
-Link could have been...Zelda's father, a retired adventurer who hung up the green tunic long ago, but who quietly encourages his daughter's fierce rebellious streak as she goes out into the world to have her own adventures.
In my eyes, Aonuma's words here don't so much speak to his staggeringly lack of creativity and imagination when it came to the task developing a new kind of story for this game, but his inability to envision a narrative that would exist out of the traditional rescuing hero/damsel in distress dynamic that has become so ingrained in the series as a whole, which only serves to speak as a fundamental failure on his part as a storyteller.
With all of this I really wish he had just said they didn't want ti and been done with it, that's pretty much the jist of it.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
What is pandering, in this situation? Is it specifically including it for no other reason than people are asking for it, as opposed to some other narrative or gameplay-based decision?
Unless there's a different connotation, pandering has always seemed like a 'negative' aspect to me.
What distinguishes 'pandering' from something like responding to the changing nature and makeup of the market they're selling the game to?
(And to be clear, I'd be fine with either femLink or Zelda as a frontrunner)
She doesn't need to. A rumor is a rumor and she was one for two.
BRSxIgnition
Member
No, it's a direct response to their reasoning behind not having a playable Zelda-centric game.
There's no playable Zelda because "What would link do?"
#LinkCould would be a response to their blatant unimaginative BS.
Maybe they'd even actually think about it properly this time.
But that's not the point I was replying to. I was replying to your assertion of "Wow" that somebody might not want to buy this game if they can't play as a girl.
MoogleWizard
Member
Lol. So silly.
theangrypirate
Member
Ah here we go, the ol I can't make a good argument so I'm going to lead with calling the poster a name technique. Keep it up junior...
I actually think a female Link would be kind of cool. It's not hard for me to accept a female Link and nothing about what I wrote would indicate that. all I did was ask why people EXPECTED A femalw link. there are no threads bitching about why the new Kratos isn't female. I don't see anyone pushing for a female Mario for the next game. No threads pushing for a male Samus.
Lots of people avoid discussing topics like this because of your juvenile knee jerk reaction. Maybe comprehend what you read before you respond next time.
stufte
Member
Fine, I'll trade you Samus for Link. That way it'll be even. Deal?
Schnozberry
Member
I would happily pay full price for a Sheik stealth action game tomorrow if it was announced, especially if it focused on further elaborating on the story of what motivated Zelda to take on her dual persona and her goals in doing so.
I love a good Hyrule story, and Zelda is a character due for better characterization.
GrantDaNasty
Member
https://twitter.com/eevee/status/742787719626006528
Now, I know the implication here is a tad bit different than a pure gender-swap, but it'd be an interesting mechanic if there was a Ranma 1/2 system where Link swaps gender.
Oh well, people are so engrained in their belief that hell, maybe it'd be pointless to change things, but I feel like Zelda is a franchise that should always be willing to try new things, go forth boldly etc.
This conservative belief in the "tenants" of what makes a Zelda game is the shit that ends up making every game just feel like an incremental upgrade over Ocarina of Time, a game made 20 YEARS AGO.
IsntChrisL
Member
This fucking place sometimes... Nintendo never promised or even hinted that this was going to happen. You just wanted it to happen.
There's quite a few of these kinds of posts throughout the thread, which makes it all the more disturbing that these kinds of drive-by rage comments are considered a valid part of the conversation. Nintendo is one of the most female friendly/gender neutral of the console makers, so if Nintendo hates women I can hardly wait to hear the verdict on Sony and Microsoft.
It'll take a lot more gender swaps than just Link for men and women to be "even" in video game representation.
You actually get these kind of responses often when people decide to cancel their pre-order over one singular issue. And that second part of your post really isn't necessary
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
But if Link has been male for 30 years, chances are he's going to continue to be male.
If the fact that he is still male is the reason for not getting the game, then there shouldn't have been the expectation that he'd have been female in the first place.
Why would a game like this be on your radar if the protagonist since the series' creation has been the wrong gender and the reason for you not picking the game up?
Is this why Nintendo consistently portrays us as helpless damsels meant to be rescued by the strong courageous in men in their two most premier video game franchises?
Because Kratos in every game isn't Kratos reincarnated into a different body.
Because Mario in every game isn't Mario reincarnated into a different body.
Because Samus in every game isn't Samus reincarnated into a different body.
The Legend of Zelda is probably the only Nintendo game where you can possibly have a playable female character after having a long line of playable male characters as the protagonist without completely re-writing the character. You talk about comprehending what you read but you have absolutely no comprehension on why people aren't asking for something as stupid as a female Mario.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
The Legend of Link: Breath of the fuckboi
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Übermatik;207070404 said:
Link and Samus are not even good comparisons. Samus at least has character development and is treated as a specific character, whereas Link hasn't had the same treatment. In the NES, he was your typical adventurer/combatant saving the world from Ganon. In the SNES, he's the same way. In the N64 games, he's a piece of wood who saves the world from both Ganon and Majora, etc. etc. Anyways, you get the point. Link has "motivations" (for lack of a better term) in these games, but they're so fundamentally simple that it doesn't stop him from being an avatar of the player. However, you could make a decent argument that Wind Waker's Link is more of a character than an avatar.
That being said, Link at its core is basically a "meta-persona," a general idea that many different individuals in each different game fall under because of their status as the protagonist, and their relation to the Hero of Time throughout generations (which isn't even strictly defined).
MoogleWizard
Member
In Mario you can play as female characters, not as female Mario. That's the difference. The Zelda version of playing as a female character in Mario would be playing as Zelda ;-) And that would be great.
kunonabi
Member
Maybe if you're gaming tastes are super limited. I own and play far more games with female protagonists than I do with male ones.