AcademicSaucer
Member
I'm not going aggro on him. I'm very diplomatic and respectful to someone that is saying that it would ruin his fun if others got to play as a woman.
No need to call him GGer tho.
I'm not going aggro on him. I'm very diplomatic and respectful to someone that is saying that it would ruin his fun if others got to play as a woman.
You're accusing him of being a gamergater. Doesn't sound diplomatic / respectful.I'm not going aggro on him. I'm very diplomatic and respectful to someone that is saying that it would ruin his fun if others got to play as a woman.
No need to call him GGer tho.
To deal with the blatant sexism amongst the video game community.
That and it's just too controversial. I mean look at how much shit was caused by the idea in the first place. And no I'm not saying everybody who was against it is sexist. But let's not deny sexism is not a major problem in this industry.
He argued that it would be wrong to offer the option to play as female Link because it would dilute the character. It is literally about ethics in this case.
I don't think he is saying it would be unethical to "dilute the character", he is saying that the consistency of the character is either important to him, or to the brand in his eyes.
In any IP, this would be considered a dilution of the established character.
No. He said it was true for any IP. He made it literally about ethics.
You are arguing that offering an alternative option is wrong as it would "dilute" the character and ruin the experience for you. It is literally about ethics in video games (development) for you.
Is ganon actually human? He somehow keeps turning into a giant pig.Soo Tri-force
Zelda - female
Link - male
Ganon - asexual???
Is ganon actually human? He somehow keeps turning into a giant pig.
This. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.What is the outrage over a 20+ year old series not changing it's protagonists gender again? Should Mario and Master Chief be turned female as well? Makes no sense at all. There are plenty of titles coming out with female leads, I dont get it.
Soo Tri-force
Zelda - female
Link - male
Ganon - asexual???
Is ganon actually human? He somehow keeps turning into a giant pig.
AnimaSoo Tri-force
Zelda - female
Link - male
Ganon - asexual???
It's too bad you've failed to elaborate on what the value is for this series.There is value in tradition. There is value in limited choice, and there is value in linearity.
What is the outrage over a 20+ year old series not changing it's protagonists gender again? Should Mario and Master Chief be turned female as well? Makes no sense at all. There are plenty of titles coming out with female leads, I dont get it.
There are no ethics involved here and your dogwhistling is petty.
I can use that exact same argument against a female Link though.
There is no reason to gender bend Link, other than "because is the way I like," or "its the way I feel comfortable."
Link is a male character and there is nothing wrong with that. Wouldn't it be cooler and more empowering to women to let Zelda be the player character and have her kick some butt, instead of playing as Link yet again?
Link is a male character and there is nothing wrong with that. Wouldn't it be cooler and more empowering to women to let Zelda be the player character and have her kick some butt, instead of playing as Link yet again?
Yes, you can use the exact same argument to both sides. Why Aonuma chooses always male Link, then? Because his limited mindset regarding the rol of women in videogames.
Nothing wrong with being a macho culture emblem in videogames after 30 years, from a feminist standpoint.
I mean, for whatever reasoning, it's done isn't it? It's over. Es finito.
Like, the game has been shown, it's Link (and he's named by the game which is different), and there's no playable female option. Speculation is kind of finished, because now we know. At least until 2020 when the next zelda comes...
Ever Oasis though
That doesn't make it about ethics. He just voiced concerns about a design decision, one which he thinks applies to other established characters as well. It would only relate to ethics if he argued it violated whatever value system would see such a decision as inherently wrong, which he didn't. That's like saying someone disliking quick time events is making an ethical statement. Hamfisting a GG reference in there (because apparently that nonsense is still in vogue) does make you look petty and needlessly hostile, because there was absolutely no relation which warranted that.Except you made a general statement about IPs and about how certain decisions are fundamentally wrong, namely offering choices (due to "character dilution").
The triforce comment had nothing to do with gender and everything to do with Zelda not being playable because that's not the way a Zelda game is formulatedSoo Tri-force
Zelda - female
Link - male
Ganon - asexual???
In short, it's old, conservative men being slightly out of touch and not even comprehending the question being asked of them. Bit disappointing, really.
The really sucky thing is that Link was always intended to be an audience insert character, like they've said so many times, and now saying that 50% of humanity never deserve to have that link resembling them in a mainline Zelda game. It boggles the mind since of all Nintendo main series Zelda is the one that would benefit most from customizable protag.
The only problem I could imagine is that it establishes that option as something that people now get every time. That means if they want to make the next game have a big focus on a Link that has to be male they'd kind of be in trouble.
Removing the option after one game would guarantee and even bigger outcry than now.
Honestly when the new link was revealed and seemed somewhat feminine, I was hoping it was her setting out to find/help Link & Tetra in the new Hyrule.
I think they said in the trailer that you can pick male or female in Ever Oasis, we just haven't seen the female choice.
That, and there are female partners you can choose to play as.
Seriously people are taking this "what would link do" quote and trying to make it sound like "psh, a girl can't be a hero! What would the man do?" When it's actually if the embodiment of wisdom is the hero, what does the embodiment of courage do.
Why shouldn't Ganon be a female? He keeps coming back to life or reincarnating over centuries. The lore says he's the Gerudo King that is born only once every 100 years, but at this point it sounds like people would feel no qualms in forcing Nintendo to abandon their own lore for the sake of gender options. After all, Ganon doesn't need to be male. Why not just reincarnate the role of Ganon with a Gerudo female?
Why not have the King of Hyrule have a son instead of a daughter named Zelda? Her role is reincarnated through royal birth line. So her gender doesn't need to be locked either.
I find these conversations interesting but ultimately I think Nintendo has the creative right to tell the stories they want to tell, and it's not like they're against playable females. They made Zelda a strong part of Spirit Tracks. They respect Zelda a lot as a character. They made her a battle-ready princess in TP.
Feel free to make arguments but don't claim you're being "very diplomatic and respectful" when calling them a gamergater. And this is coming from someone who generally agrees with you.No, he said this was true for any IP. He made it literally about ethics. He argued about how games are a social experience and that character dilution would ruin it or make the experience unrelatable.
Also true.The dumb thing is, he could say it's actually about ethics and that still wouldn't make him a GGer.
The connection is only drawn between ethics and GG because they continued using that specific phrasing as a shield for their true beliefs. This doesn't mean that all matters of ethics now hide some sinister true belief.
Something like courageously save Zelda by taking the hit from a curse beam instead, and being put out of action that way? What is it about the triforce of wisdom that is the unique embodiment of spending most of the game doing nothing?
Personally my bigger problem is the embodiment of wisdom doesn't seem like the type to pick up a sword and shield, which would really change the gameplay around, but their explanation does seem pretty terrible.
Partnering them up could be a good compromise.
Because some people want player characters they can connect with, and some people want more role models they can relate to. Those things aren't helped or are made worse by making Ganondorf female or Zelda male.
And yes, Nintendo does have creative liberty to do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean people can't criticize those creative decisions and advocate for something they want to see changed in future instalments.
Also I do think that they could change Ganondorf to female and even though the message boards would erupt at the lore implications, the vast majority of player wouldn't care because the lore aspect of zelda is way too obscure.
Oh you mean the iconic female character that got completely destroyed and manhandled by Nintendo themselves by Other M so bad 6 years ago that they don't know what to do with the franchise and thus decided that the first new Metroid release since 2010 was going to be a multiplayer-only 3DS game with an all-male cast and without Samus in sight? That's what we can seek for solace?I've said this before and I'll say it again. No way in hell do I want to be appeased by a company gender swapping an iconic established character. Link is Link. He's a guy. That's fine. Changing that is stupid. If a Zelda game is going to have a playable female then how about Link and Zelda both being playable, maybe switch between them? Link is not a generic create your own character.
I don't want female Link any more than I want Male Samus. Speaking of which, how about a new Metroid instead? You know, the action adventure franchise that already has an iconic playable female protagonist?
I've said this before and I'll say it again. No way in hell do I want to be appeased by a company gender swapping an iconic established character. Link is Link. He's a guy. That's fine. Changing that is stupid.
If a Zelda game is going to have a playable female then how about Link and Zelda both being playable, maybe switch between them? Link is not a generic create your own character.
Like all the people boycotting (or claiming they would) Star Wars VII, because of a female, a black and a Mexican leads? Yeah, that didn't really do shit, outside of a couple embarrassing tweets.
You could probably count on one hand the people who would actually not buy the new Zelda because of this, despite probably being very loud on Twitter.
I think the player base increase would've had a net positive with the inclusion of female link, not the other way around.