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[GhostTrick]

I know that's not the case but if Sony was building a console that they wanted to be able to run games that are 1080P on PS4 & 4K on Neo using the same rendering technique & without cutting effects & so on they would have to make that console 4X the power of PS4 if they wanted to keep a standard in place.

This isn't how things works. You should really stoo thinking all is about secret techniques, magical chips, wizard sauce and coding to the metal. GPU architectures are pretty much straigthforward. If 6TFlops from a GCN AMD GPU can give 4k to Scorpio, then a 6TFlops one can do the same for PS4 Neo or whatever model we're talking about.

 

[onQ123]

Man..you really should not be here posting like this. You sound a lot like mrxmedia. Only a PS version of it.

How? nothing that I'm saying is making Neo seem more powerful than it is,


4.2TF is more power than I expected Neo to be I said from the beginning that they would use cheap rendering tricks to get 4K PS4 games.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

How? nothing that I'm saying is making Neo seem more powerful than it is,


4.2TF is more power than I expected Neo to be I said from the beginning that they would use cheap rendering tricks to get 4K PS4 games.

Really? I have been reading a lot about Neo the last few weeks (here and other forums and articles like last years Masayasu Ito interview) and my impression is that Neo has been planned all along even before PS4 launch. In fact, One over at B3D has said that the guy that interviewed Masayasu Ito last year spoke with people from Sony around E3 this year and they recounted that they thought they'd been a leak out of Sony after he wrote a earlier speculative piece about the possibility of a PS4.1/4.2 in February 2013.

 

[Matt]

I know that's not the case but if Sony was building a console that they wanted to be able to run games that are 1080P on PS4 & 4K on Neo using the same rendering technique & without cutting effects & so on they would have to make that console 4X the power of PS4 if they wanted to keep a standard in place.

No game is going to magically become native 4K, and therefore the math you are talking about is oversimplified and not applicable. An upgraded PS4 wouldn't need more power than an upgraded XBO to acheive the same results, period.

 

[Matt]

Hey Matt, was just wondering if you knew if there was any chance that we'll have games fully supporting HDR. It's a bigger deal to me than 4K.

I believe so.

 

[RoboPlato]

I believe so.

^_^

Thank you!

 

[anothertech]

You are assuming that every game uses the maximum amount of system recources it possibly could.

Stop with this line of thinking, it's completely wrong.

This exactly. There's too many variables to just multiply the TF number by 4. Not sensible.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Would the specs in the document still be accurate despite Sony seeing what the Scorpio is working with?

I don't..think Sony is running for the hills because of a system a year and a half out, and especially in their enviable position in the market place.

 

[Iacobellis]

Really? I have been reading a lot about Neo the last few weeks (here and other forums and articles like last years Masayasu Ito interview) and my impression is that Neo has been planned all along even before PS4 launch. In fact, One over at B3D has said that the guy that interviewed Masayasu Ito last year spoke with people from Sony around E3 this year and they recounted that they thought they'd been a leak out of Sony after he wrote a earlier speculative piece about the possibility of a PS4.1/4.2 in February 2013.

Do you have a link to this?

 

[bryanee]

I need to know if this is coming this year. I think my PS4 is dying.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I need to know if this is coming this year. I think my PS4 is dying.

House said it was.

 

[Darklor01]

House said it was.

Right. IIRC he said that it would release pretty soon after announcement. So, there will be VERY little heads up between them saying here are the details and you being able to buy/pick up.

 

[fritolay]

I don't..think Sony is running for the hills because of a system a year and a half out, and especially in their enviable position in the market place.

They should, because MS will have upper hand, and if Sony comes out with PS5 within a year it's going to piss people off.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

They should, because MS will have upper hand, and if Sony comes out with PS5 within a year it's going to piss people off.

We aren't getting a PS5 in 2017. Probably not 2018 either.

 

[wonderful103]

They should, because MS will have upper hand, and if Sony comes out with PS5 within a year it's going to piss people off.

Power doesnt matter, and it isn't why the ps4 is outselling the rest.

If you actually care about power beyond console war bragging rights in digital foundry threads, you'd already own a gaming pc.

 

[fritolay]

We aren't getting a PS5 in 2017. Probably not 2018 either.

Sony should scrap Neo then and just wait and release the PS5.

 

[Hidden One]

They should, because MS will have upper hand, and if Sony comes out with PS5 within a year it's going to piss people off.

lol PS5 isn't coming till holiday 2018 at the earliest and Holiday 2020 at the latest. I always thought the PS5 would be Holiday 2018. Sony will definitely wanna get a stronger hardware out but then Microsoft will just release another Xbox in like 2019 lol.

 

[bryanee]

Sony should scrap Neo then and just wait and release the PS5.

The point of the Neo is too bridge that gap between PS4 and PS5.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sony should scrap Neo then and just wait and release the PS5.

Why?

 

[The God]

Power doesnt matter, and it isn't why the ps4 is outselling the rest.

If you actually care about power beyond console war bragging rights in digital foundry threads, you'd already own a gaming pc.

You're lying to yourself if you think power has nothing to do with where both systems stand today.

 

[fritolay]

Why?

I don't think it makes sense, when a PS5 in another year or two does. If games are made for that platform it could affect other systems, even PC gaming. Holds them back. That is all.

 

[Raylan]

They should, because MS will have upper hand

'Upper hand' with what exactly? Because they are launching an Xbox console that has ~1.8TF more power, 1 year after Neo? And you think this will change everything and everybody will leave PlayStation and they're all gonna buy Xbox One consoles? Because "we have 1.8TF more power, folks".

Andrew House on suicide watch.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't think it makes sense, when a PS5 in another year or two does. If games are made for that platform it could affect other systems, even PC gaming. Holds them back. That is all.

One benefit I can see would be if they can keep it up and always do a .5 with each major release then they could always maintain BC between the two most recent systems and never have Devs need to start from scratch each time.

Quicker development turnover for us (especially on a new console release) and less overall headaches for devs.

 

[Lady Gaia]

This exactly. There's too many variables to just multiply the TF number by 4. Not sensible.

It's more sensible than a lot of more complicated assumptions. You're rendering four times as many pixels. Needing to do four times as much computation to render them is a pretty safe bet until you start taking new shortcuts and compromising image quality further.

The problem with assuming that the clever techniques are going to save you a bunch is that people are already using those shortcuts in their 1080p titles. If you're using checkerboard to cut your GPU work in half then you've already played that card. To get to 4K using the same technique you still need to render four times as many actual pixels per frame.

 

[family_guy]

You're lying to yourself if you think power has nothing to do with where both systems stand today.

The difference in power wouldn't equate to a 20 million unit lead. Power helped some, but forced Kinect, $500 console, Tier 1/2/3 country ratings, charging to access apps like Netflix until they were far behind, not focusing on first party content, proposed always online, TV,NFL, basically USA, USA, USA! They basically lost their biggest market, so they didn't have a prayer in any other country.They did little right with Xbox One although they turned it around to make it at least not suck anymore.

 

[The God]

The difference in power wouldn't equate to a 20 million unit lead. Power helped some, but forced Kinect, $500 console, Tier 1/2/3 country ratings, charging to access apps like Netflix until they were far behind, not focusing on first party content, proposed always online, TV,NFL, basically USA, USA, USA! They basically lost their biggest market, so they didn't have a prayer in any other country.They did little right with Xbox One although they turned it around to make it at least not suck anymore.

then it mattered.

 

[Hawk269]

The difference in power wouldn't equate to a 20 million unit lead. Power helped some, but forced Kinect, $500 console, Tier 1/2/3 country ratings, charging to access apps like Netflix until they were far behind, not focusing on first party content, proposed always online, TV,NFL, basically USA, USA, USA! They basically lost their biggest market, so they didn't have a prayer in any other country.They did little right with Xbox One although they turned it around to make it at least not suck anymore.

I just remember the threads here on Gaf when the power differences were revealed and how many people gravitated towards the PS4 because they wanted the better version of games. I think "power" in itself is a big selling point, granted it is not the only one, but we have a ton of people on this very board that made the switch from 360 to PS4 because they wanted the best version of 3rd party games. I think power and how it impacts 3rd party games is a good/big selling point.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You're lying to yourself if you think power has nothing to do with where both systems stand today.

Sure, it matters in some capacity, as in, its something people do take into account. But generally speaking, it means little to the overall success of a platform and the userbase compared to other things.

If all things are equal, than power can be one differentiation. But in general, most times, systems are never equal. either in price, ecosystem, support, or otherwise.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

They should, because MS will have upper hand, and if Sony comes out with PS5 within a year it's going to piss people off.

Scorpio/Neo will have borderline zero effect on the marketplace from a sales perspective. The current status quo will most likely remain.

Scorpio is most likely a longer term move to rid itself of any remaining shred of the Xbox One name and eventually re-launch with a console after the Scorpio that is more likely going to be considered the "next gen" machine.

I think Microsoft probably realises they fucked up in the wrong generation and now need to re-think how they approach the videogame console space. Which is what all the Windows integration is leading into. They're effectively now going to treat Xbox consoles as another piece of hardware they make that gains Windows 10 users. Like a Surface.

They've kind of unofficially waved the white flag on the more traditional "console race". They're now concentrating on getting people into the ecosystem. BC's entire intention would have been that. Retain any 360 holdovers and potentially drag some abandoned back.

 

[family_guy]

I just remember the threads here on Gaf when the power differences were revealed and how many people gravitated towards the PS4 because they wanted the better version of games. I think "power" in itself is a big selling point, granted it is not the only one, but we have a ton of people on this very board that made the switch from 360 to PS4 because they wanted the best version of 3rd party games. I think power and how it impacts 3rd party games is a good/big selling point.

I think it's more that they didn't want to be paying more and getting less. Xbox One was $100 more than PS4 and was weaker. It was the same issue with PS3 vs 360. Well it wasn't technically weaker but it was so hard to develop for that it made it look weak compared to 360. Then PS3 being $100-200 more didn't help matters. If Xbox one launched at $350, there's no way it would have gotten so far behind PS4 despite being weaker.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think it's more that they didn't want to be paying more and getting less. Xbox One was $100 more than PS4 and was weaker. It was the same issue with PS3 vs 360. Well it wasn't technically weaker but it was so hard to develop for that it made it look weak compared to 360. Then PS3 being $100-200 more didn't help matters. If Xbox one launched at $350, there's no way it would have gotten so far behind PS4 despite being weaker.

I think it would have, because the momentum was with PS4 regardless. It wasn't just price or performance to price ratio, it was messaging, irrelevancy, the product itself had no appeal with their focus on things outside of gaming and what people wanted from a games console, and generally even now fails to expand its audience past those looking for what MS has always appealed to at the cost of literally every other market : American, big juicy hamburgers on the grill.

 

[InsaneTiger]

'Upper hand' with what exactly? Because they are launching an Xbox console that has ~1.8TF more power, 1 year after Neo? And you think this will change everything and everybody will leave PlayStation and they're all gonna buy Xbox One consoles? Because "we have 1.8TF more power, folks".

Andrew House on suicide watch.

Maybe Frito assumes no PS4s will sell in between now and Scopio launch, then Xbox Scopio will 10 millions unit day 1?

I don't know, both consoles will continue to sell regardless of Scopio coming a year and half out.

 

[bunbun777]

Ps5 and psvr 2.0 will coincide I'd wager. And that should take apx 3 years with announcement in maybe 2, which will be less than a year from when Scorpio comes out, so how long will MS wait to upgrade again?

 

[Memento]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

Information we already knew, platform wars and speculation about launch dates and how the thing will do on the market

 

[icespide]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

checkerboard rendering

 

[OdysseusVA]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

Half and fuller precision uprendering

 

[onQ123]

No game is going to magically become native 4K, and therefore the math you are talking about is oversimplified and not applicable. An upgraded PS4 wouldn't need more power than an upgraded XBO to acheive the same results, period.

I never said it would magically happen & yes I was oversimplifying it. of course you could get PS4 games in 4K on a 6TF console but for PS4/Neo devs to have the same leeway as Xbox One/Scorpio davs Neo would have to be about 8TF.

 

[c0de]

The point of the Neo is too bridge that gap between PS4 and PS5.

I am still wondering if the neo will die as soon as the ps4 dies, meaning that neo will have a very short life cycle.

 

[wapplew]

I am still wondering if the neo will die as soon as the ps4 dies, meaning that neo will have a very short life cycle.

Just like PS3 slim, PS2 slim and PSone, they all have shorter life cycle than the OG.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

The Scorpio is now secretly a 3TF console and the Neo is now 8.

 

[Matt]

I never said it would magically happen & yes I was oversimplifying it. of course you could get PS4 games in 4K on a 6TF console but for PS4/Neo devs to have the same leeway as Xbox One/Scorpio davs Neo would have to be about 8TF.

I'm telling you that's not true.

 

[dragonelite]

I just remember the threads here on Gaf when the power differences were revealed and how many people gravitated towards the PS4 because they wanted the better version of games. I think "power" in itself is a big selling point, granted it is not the only one, but we have a ton of people on this very board that made the switch from 360 to PS4 because they wanted the best version of 3rd party games. I think power and how it impacts 3rd party games is a good/big selling point.

That is also the story i remember when the current gen specs leaked.
Having the best version for 90% of the games people play should be a good incentive.
Given im told digital is still a small percentage of the games sales it easier to switch
ecosystems.

 

[Daft Punk]

Can someone summarize this thread for me? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ravage_Hydra]

What movie is this from?

 

[InsaneTiger]

What movie is this from?

You serious?

 

[gatti-man]

I don't..think Sony is running for the hills because of a system a year and a half out, and especially in their enviable position in the market place.

Adapting to your competitor is hardly running for the hills and Sony "ran for the hills" at launch when it dropped its anti used program when Sony saw the reaction to Microsofts similar plan. It's just smart business.

 

[piccio_ssl]

Adapting to your competitor is hardly running for the hills and Sony "ran for the hills" at launch when it dropped its anti used program when Sony saw the reaction to Microsofts similar plan. It's just smart business.

oh god ...

 

[DiddyInAHellcat]

What movie is this from?

Matrix

 

[Gitaroo]

I just remember the threads here on Gaf when the power differences were revealed and how many people gravitated towards the PS4 because they wanted the better version of games. I think "power" in itself is a big selling point, granted it is not the only one, but we have a ton of people on this very board that made the switch from 360 to PS4 because they wanted the best version of 3rd party games. I think power and how it impacts 3rd party games is a good/big selling point.

Irc the first xbone holiday temporary price cut boost the system sales past ps4 in NA in the holiday season and had better software sales in every major AAA game beside I think Farcry 4 which would have of course overshadowed by COD and battlefield anyway. $ is the key to sales, even the spec was reverse even after scorpio launch, we are still looking at a PS2 vs xbox when xbox was like 5 times more powerful, and even priced the competively. Scorpio have 40 millions users base to catch up + neo 1 years head start on top. If I were sony I could careless what fanboys would think. Real hardware enthusiasts buy everything day 1, if they truely want the best, they stick to Pc + ps4 for whatever odd games that is not on pc thanks to MS play anywhere initiative. Thinking back it was a dumb idea for MS to even reveal the scorpio a head to show all their cards; Sony only goal should be getting the neo out asap now and price it right to keep the ps4 momentum going. If they launch it at 400, MS will have to think about how they can build a 6tf box cheap enough to compete with neo which could receive a price cut to 350 around the scorpio launch. I said MS dug themselves a deeper hole to jump out of.