Same. Better lighting, AA especially and textures and I'll be there day one for Neo and Scorpio.Yep, I'd take frame rate + graphical fidelity over 4k any day.
Same. Better lighting, AA especially and textures and I'll be there day one for Neo and Scorpio.Yep, I'd take frame rate + graphical fidelity over 4k any day.
Same. Better lighting, AA especially and textures and I'll be there day one for Neo and Scorpio.
Wow. You have not read what I am saying. The original and current argument is about Neo pushing 4K NATIVE (notice the capitalisation). 1800p is not native 4K.
Those expecting every other game to render in native 4K are going to be very disappointed... honestly I'd rather just wait instead of trying to tell you otherwise.
Literally the only games that will be 4K are the remasters that are left to come out and Indie titles.
Edit AAA titles on the Neo will just be 1080p native with high quality lighting, textures etc.
YepSo he's telling other devs to do what Sony is advocating for? Temporal reconstruction?
I see lighting techniques being much more advanced, graphical effects becoming more plentiful, high quality AA and higher end resolutions in general being applied.
What i don't see happening graphics wise is asset changes from the base game.
Its not worth it, and would cost the developer something to implement...when every copy of the game is going to run on NEO or PS4, that's a lot more work for no extra sales
So he's telling other devs to do what Sony is advocating for? Temporal reconstruction?
I see lighting techniques being much more advanced, graphical effects becoming more plentiful, high quality AA and higher end resolutions in general being applied.
What i don't see happening graphics wise is actual asset changes from the base game on the PS4 and XB1.
Its not worth it, and would cost the developer something significant to implement...when every copy of the game is going to run on NEO or PS4, that's a lot more work for no extra sales
I would think assets for AAA games are made much higher than what we are seeing even on PC .
Yep, I'd take frame rate + graphical fidelity over 4k any day.
Same. Better lighting, AA especially and textures and I'll be there day one for Neo and Scorpio.
Yep, I'd take frame rate + graphical fidelity over 4k any day.
I shouldn't have said the bottom part I admit that was dumb but still we won't see native 4K. Do you wanna take that avatar bet?I read exactly what you said
And I'm telling you that you will be wrong
Well yeah, to a point. But, the game has to actually work on every PC, and devs are not going to bake 300k polygon character models into the game for the ultra settings on PC just because your running it on a 1080 with an i7.
The same goes for these iterative units, i think the graphical changes will be far more subtle than some people expect from the base 8th gen consoles. I expect NEO and even scorpio to get initial complaints of games looking the same as PS4 and XB1, because the games themselves have the same assets, and don't look like next gen titles.
I'd take options over one or the other.
The sooner we get graphics settings on consoles the better.
While that is true, I'm sure there can be some middle ground. They don't need to shoot for 4k native in all titles, but in between 4k resolutions would work fine too......I'm thinking devs will still go for 30fps on most titles, so I don't see them settling for 1080p 60fps as a rule.Same thoughts here. 4k is cool and everything but pls, make the games beautiful at 1080p first before going nuts with just resolution.
Graphical options are the antithesis to closed box systems. Even with these iterative units, they are continuing maximizing closed box hardware, even in multiple iterations.
Devs can't optimize for multiple specs for huge swathes of their game and expect there to not be a decent sacrifice in being able to control their graphical rendering pipeline
4K-ish
And yet, Nioh exists.
And yet, Nioh exists.
You do realize they accounted for this at the very start of production right?
So we agree it's possible for a console game to have graphical settings? Excellent.
You do realize they accounted for this at the very start of production right? And even then, they did not actually get to 60fps, its unlocked FPS, and both versions are compromised in some way.
Its not as simple as flicking a switch and being able to account for actual game design decisions that are taken into account as the game is being made.
PC games are able to avoid these limitations due to being able to use infinite variations of hardware and brute force things.
Nobody is saying that its impossible, its just not worth the time and resources for most console games.
That doesn't really change the argument. I'm not really in favor of bunch graphical settings on console though if the outcome would worse than one unified vision.
Thanks you for this. This is what I needed to back my argument up.LMAO.
A lot of people in this thread have no idea how taxing 4k resolution is. I have been chasing 4k/60fps for a while with various PC builds. I have been using 4k TV's since they were introduced and started chasing 4k/60fps shortly after...
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Original Titan GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan Black GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Maxwell GPU's = Very close, but still not 100%, especially in many games/some yes*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Pascal GPU's = BLISS 4k/60fps flawless execution.*
* = With games FULLY Maxed out. I capitalize "FULLY" since some don't understand when you say "FULLY", that mean's every possible setting set to it's highest setting. Most tests used The Witcher 2, Division, The Witcher 3, Tomb Raider, ESO.
Again, this is 4k/60fps, which is a hell of a lot more demanding then 4k/30fps. To expect a console with a 4.2tf of even a 6tf GPU (Natively) to do 4k/60fps with the highest shadows and other post processing effects is asking way too much.
I wonder how taxing is 1800p 30fps medium.LMAO.
A lot of people in this thread have no idea how taxing 4k resolution is. I have been chasing 4k/60fps for a while with various PC builds. I have been using 4k TV's since they were introduced and started chasing 4k/60fps shortly after...
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Original Titan GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan Black GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Maxwell GPU's = Very close, but still not 100%, especially in many games/some yes*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Pascal GPU's = BLISS 4k/60fps flawless execution.*
* = With games FULLY Maxed out. I capitalize "FULLY" since some don't understand when you say "FULLY", that mean's every possible setting set to it's highest setting. Most tests used The Witcher 2, Division, The Witcher 3, Tomb Raider, ESO.
Again, this is 4k/60fps, which is a hell of a lot more demanding then 4k/30fps. To expect a console with a 4.2tf of even a 6tf GPU (Natively) to do 4k/60fps with the highest shadows and other post processing effects is asking way too much.
Eventually consoles will move towards PC-like models. It's already happening now with incremental upgrades and at some point, modular consoles will be a thing and settings will be a thing too. Nioh won't be the last game to give players a choice between frame rate or resolution.
And I'm gonna need some developer quotes stating that graphical settings would be asking for too much. Until then I'll keep the dream alive.
Eventually consoles will move towards PC-like models. It's already happening now with incremental upgrades and at some point, modular consoles will be a thing and settings will be a thing too. Nioh won't be the last game to give players a choice between frame rate or resolution.
And I'm gonna need some developer quotes stating that graphical settings would be asking for too much. Until then I'll keep the dream alive.
I wonder how taxing is 1800p 30fps medium.
Nioh is a terrible example of multiple graphical options. Substandard 60FPS or mediocre looking 30 FPS.
It might as well be a 30 FPS action game to people who want stable 60.
Looking down my trophy list for PS4, these are the games I think would have a very good (assuming strong dev/pub intent) chance of full 3840x2160 geometry rendering on the rumoured hardware:Indie games most likely and even then there will be a 1080p option. I can guarantee that no AAA game will be pushing native 4K.
Edit: What games do you think will be pushing 4K exactly? Apart from a few Indie games?
Capcom's struggling with decent 1080p remasters but I'm sure HexaDrive could whip up a further upgraded Okami UHD in fairly short time.Capcom is salivating right now.
I'd actually buy remasters at 4K.
Generalising indie games isn't great because even simple looking indies often don't perform to their surface appearance. For every INSIDE there's a N.E.R.O: Nothing Ever Remains Obscure.Most indie games will be pushing 4K on NEO IMO, don't see why they would not be.
It's not a good looking game by any means, but it's the only example we have.
Apply the settings to more capable development teams with AAA budgets and I could see good things being done.
The Division was supposed to have options but I don't know what happened to that.
Yeah I was thinking PS4 running at 1800p 30fps medium may need less than ⅓ of Titan Xp's horsepower.I never tried 1800p, so I am not sure. Even a single Titan X Pascal can have trouble hitting 4k/60fps even with some things turned down. For example in The Witcher 3, my single Titan X Pascal OC to 1950 would hit around 53fps at 4k, but this was with AA Turned Off, Hairworks turned off etc. All other settings set to max. Still it looked incredible and I was averaging about 53fps in fights with 3+ enemies on-screen. At times just walking around it would be solid 60fps.
Not so much with typical longer-distance TV viewing but if you play on 2160p monitor you'll see a difference on high contrast edges.So here's a question (not rhetorical). Let's say Neo does 1800p with reconstruction rather than native 4k. How likely do you think it is that you'll be able to tell the difference without a pixel counter telling you?
For highly skilled teams like Tiago Sousa's, with superb temporal anti-aliasing at high frame rates and custom scaling, pushing up-to UHD isn't so critical. But for the FXAA average, brute forcing higher resolutions is highly beneficial.Here's a discussion some devs were having about how to handle the resolution with Scorpio
https://abload.de/img/doom1huqbr.png
https://abload.de/img/doom205om0.png
LMAO.
A lot of people in this thread have no idea how taxing 4k resolution is. I have been chasing 4k/60fps for a while with various PC builds. I have been using 4k TV's since they were introduced and started chasing 4k/60fps shortly after...
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Original Titan GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan Black GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Maxwell GPU's = Very close, but still not 100%, especially in many games/some yes*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Pascal GPU's = BLISS 4k/60fps flawless execution.*
* = With games FULLY Maxed out. I capitalize "FULLY" since some don't understand when you say "FULLY", that mean's every possible setting set to it's highest setting. Most tests used The Witcher 2, Division, The Witcher 3, Tomb Raider, ESO.
Again, this is 4k/60fps, which is a hell of a lot more demanding then 4k/30fps. To expect a console with a 4.2tf of even a 6tf GPU (Natively) to do 4k/60fps with the highest shadows and other post processing effects is asking way too much.
Thanks you for this. This is what I needed to back my argument up.
Nothing changed Neo will have some 4K PS4 games not 4K PC games with max settings.
There will be no AAA games at 4k on any new consoles for YEARS to come. Quote me, tag me, hold me accountable if I am wrong but I am confident it isn't happening. Also, if VR is the godsend that some folks think it is on Neogaf (it isnt) 4k is is in direct oppossion to the future of VR gaming on consoles due to FPS limiting and budget on hardware. It really is a case of choosing one over the other.Native 4K games that are not indies?
And yet, Nioh exists.
LMAO.
A lot of people in this thread have no idea how taxing 4k resolution is. I have been chasing 4k/60fps for a while with various PC builds. I have been using 4k TV's since they were introduced and started chasing 4k/60fps shortly after...
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Original Titan GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan Black GPU's = Fail at 4k/60fps*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Maxwell GPU's = Very close, but still not 100%, especially in many games/some yes*
I7-3930k OC to 4.8 with 2 Titan X Pascal GPU's = BLISS 4k/60fps flawless execution.*
* = With games FULLY Maxed out. I capitalize "FULLY" since some don't understand when you say "FULLY", that mean's every possible setting set to it's highest setting. Most tests used The Witcher 2, Division, The Witcher 3, Tomb Raider, ESO.
Again, this is 4k/60fps, which is a hell of a lot more demanding then 4k/30fps. To expect a console with a 4.2tf of even a 6tf GPU (Natively) to do 4k/60fps with the highest shadows and other post processing effects is asking way too much.
I'd rather Sony not chase native 4K when isn't really feasible right now. Save it for PS5. I'm building PC for that. Current settings at 4k doesn't sound very enticing to me.
I'm not really sure about this checkerboard stuff either. I know Quantum Break used some type of reconstruction and it doesn't look very good.
I would bet many developers would avoid 4K even with a PS5. This is simply a massive waste of ressources imo.
So he's telling other devs to do what Sony is advocating for? Temporal reconstruction?
I see lighting techniques being much more advanced, graphical effects becoming more plentiful, high quality AA and higher end resolutions in general being applied.
What i don't see happening graphics wise is actual asset changes from the base game on the PS4 and XB1.
Its not worth it, and would cost the developer something significant to implement...when every copy of the game is going to run on NEO or PS4, that's a lot more work for no extra sales
Yea but pc tech is like putting 1000 HP in a model T and expecting it to the world's fastest car. In the right game at 4k can be optimized to be 60 fps. I personally would prefer 1080p with amazing graphics over 4k
So would I.Yep, I'd take frame rate + graphical fidelity over 4k any day.
I'd rather they run everything at an absolute solid 60fps at all times, and use the remaining power to improve the quality of some of the assets/backgrounds that can really use it rather than aim for 4k.I wonder about SFV .
Personally, I think it's going to be in same boat as Albert Panello mentioned in the Scorpio thread:
If it was 1080/60 on current Gen consoles, they can try to get 4K/60 on the Neo/Scorpio. This means mostly indie games and sports games possibly with settings turned way down.
If it was 1080/30 on current Gen, they can try to get 4K/30 on those games. Which will be more AAA type games.
All in all, I'm a bit sceptical how far devs can push 4K rendering even with the power of Neo and Scorpio. I'm betting most will use dynamic scaling or other techniques to get to 4K so they can add all the bells and whistles and have a decent frame rate. Devs like to make their games pretty. It's a pride thing really.
I'm personally hoping to see what devs do with a 1080p game with every bell and whistle turned to max on these new consoles. Will be glorious.