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[Sword Of Doom]

I understand what you're saying here, but it's not just an incremental upgrade. You may as well be saying that a train was an "incremental" upgrade to the horse and buggy. If we were talking about HDR in a vacuum, then you might be right. But HDR doesn't come with just HDR alone.

You're moving goal posts here.

I've owned a plasma for years and it's imo head and shoulders above any LCD based displays I've seen. Even with HDR I'd probably keep my plasma over an LCD display. thats how I feel about how important HDR is

 

[Sanctuary]

You're moving goal posts here.

Except that I'm not. There's a pretty wide misunderstanding about HDR in general. When something displays HDR, it also has to support Rec.2020. They aren't the same thing, but they come as a packaged deal, or HDR simply doesn't work.

edit: Real HDR, not faux HDR like what some movies have right now. HDR can be displayed on Rec.709, but it's as meaningless as watching a 1080p movie on a 480p screen.

You're moving goal posts here.

I've owned a plasma for years and it's imo head and shoulders above any LCD based displays I've seen. Even with HDR I'd probably keep my plasma over an LCD display. thats how I feel about how important HDR is

I don't even understand what LCD vs Plasma has anything to do with HDR here. I actually just upgraded from a plasma to an OLED, and it terms of black levels and pretty much everything but input lag, it's a lot better. The real issue right now is that there's simply not enough content for people to have experienced yet. In that regard, both technologies are immature in different ways I suppose.

 

[paperspace]

Consoles shockingly ahead of PC in this regard.

What games can you play in HDR right now, on any platform?

The support is there, developers just have to implement it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Except that I'm not. There's a pretty wide misunderstanding about HDR in general. When something displays HDR, it also has to support Rec.2020. They aren't the same thing, but they come as a packaged deal, or HDR simply doesn't work.

...you do realize this is Durante you're arguing with, yes?

 

[AndyMoogle]

I think the problem here is your insistence in using incremental as the adjective, when HDR and Rec.2020 are anything but. They might not be "as big of a deal" to you, but that doesn't make it a mere incremental upgrade. Given the choice of the two technologies as they are today (when you also factor in current limitations), VR is the least important of the two given its immaturity. It having the potential to do more doesn't mean anything right now.

I don't think incremental means what you think it means.

 

[Vipu]

Can I have 4k + 144hz + OLED + HDR + 1-3ms screen soon plz?
I will buy it.

 

[paperspace]

Can I have 4k + 144hz + OLED + HDR + 1-3ms screen soon plz?
I will buy it.

Add G-Sync and I'm in.

 

[Li Kao]

Holy thread derailing, Batman !

 

[AndyMoogle]

Add G-Sync and I'm in.

It would be completely pointless to not have G-Sync/FreeSync with 4k 144Hz. I hope no one is stupid enough to make one without them.

 

[Izuna]

...you do realize this is Durante you're arguing with, yes?

He's playing semantics, which is an argument no one wants to have...

 

[Robobandit]

I don't think incremental means what you think it means.

to a lot people "incremental" means "not significant", which I really don't feel is the case here.

For me, at least.. the quality of the picture I'm seeing is more important than the "new experience" provided by VR. The blurriness of the current tech is really off-putting and it is the reason my oculus is in a drawer right now.

 

[Trace]

He's playing semantics, which is an argument no one wants to have...

He's arguing for the definition of the word he used, which he is entirely right to.

 

[Forever Changes]

to a lot people "incremental" means "not significant"
.

Well those people are silly.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

He's arguing for the definition of the word he used, which he is entirely right to.

Meh, it's a thinly veiled "vr is better/more important" argument. Take a gander in any of those dedicated threads and it's easy to see the myopia from him. It gets obnoxious. I'm not sure they've actually seen a true hdr picture before. They thought Maxwell supports hdr which it doesn't, only Polaris and Pascal do. I love vr as much as the next enthusiast but I'm not blind to how big of an improvement and shakeup hdr will have for displays in general, not just gaming.

 

[paperspace]

Meh, it's a thinly veiled "vr is better/more important" argument. Take a gander in any of those dedicated threads and it's easy to see the myopia from him. It gets obnoxious. I'm not sure they've actually seen a true hdr picture before. They thought Maxwell supports hdr which it doesn't, only Polaris and Pascal do. I love vr as much as the next enthusiast but I'm not blind to how big of an improvement and shakeup hdr will have for displays in general, not just gaming.

960 and up supports HDR.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

960 and up supports HDR.

This is inaccurate, full hdr requires hdmi 2.0a which those cards do not have. It will probably be a half baked variant that's patched in at the driver level not unlike what TV sets that don't have the whole enchilada do with firmware updates.

 

[Durante]

They might not be "as big of a deal" to you, but that doesn't make it a mere incremental upgrade.

No one started an argument about anything being a "big deal" or "mere"ly incremental except for you.

What I did say is that it is not as novel as VR, because someone else brought that up. Do you disagree with that assesment?

They thought Maxwell supports hdr which it doesn't

You should inform yourself before you make such claims.

 

[scitek]

It's far more than just an "incremental improvement". You don't just get HDR, you get the wider color gamut along with it (which isn't what HDR actually is), which is actually the biggest improvement to picture IQ since the color TV was first invented.

Not all HDR TV are capable of displaying the wider color gamut. The 2016 Vizio M-series, for example.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

No one started an argument about anything being a "big deal" or "mere"ly incremental except for you.

You should inform yourself before you make such claims.

See above, only the 1080 supports 2.0a, we'll have to wait for more cards to even the field for full hdr support on pc, sorry!

 

[jmga]

This is inaccurate, full hdr requires hdmi 2.0a which those cards do not have. It will probably be a half baked variant that's patched in at the driver level not unlike what TV sets that don't have the whole enchilada do with firmware updates.

AFAIK HDMI 2.0a is possible on any 2.0 hardware via firmware update.

 

[mugurumakensei]

AFAIK HDMI 2.0a is possible on any 2.0 hardware via firmware update.

that's correct.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

AFAIK HDMI 2.0a is possible on any 2.0 hardware via firmware update.

I'm skeptical this will bring the full benefits of hdr similar to those tvs getting firmware updates, have a link handy by chance? I'd be more than happy to be wrong if my 970 can pull it off. Now the supported games on the other hand...

 

[Durante]

See above, only the 1080 supports 2.0a, we'll have to wait for more cards to even the field for full hdr support on pc, sorry!

Actually, all the Pascal GPUs (including the 1060) support HDMI 2.0b. As do the RX460, RX470 and RX480 an the AMD side.

I'm skeptical this will bring the full benefits of hdr similar to those tvs getting firmware updates

A TV needs to actually have hardware to display a color space, which you obviously can't patch in. A GPU just needs to encode a signal.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Actually, all the Pascal GPUs (including the 1060) support HDMI 2.0b. As do the RX460, RX470 and RX480 an the AMD side.

A TV needs to actually have hardware to display a color space, which you obviously can't patch in. A GPU just needs to encode a signal.

Ok well that's more encouraging, so you're certain a Maxwell card can take full advantage of the entire range of hdr as long as it has appropriate drivers? As I understand it you at least need 2.0a hdmi to see the whole range, and yes obviously the right display.

 

[mugurumakensei]

A TV needs to actually have hardware to display a color space, which you obviously can't patch in. A GPU just needs to encode a signal.

well, there's also the bandwidth aspect but HDMI 2.0 provides enough bandwidth in the base spec that's it's basically a firmware patch for GPUs that support HDMI 2.0.
to above, HDMI 2.0a is a revision of 2.0 which specifies how HDR should be transmitted from output to display.. if the output device supports HDMI 2.0 and is able to have its firmware updated, it can be me HDMI 2.0a compliant. no new hardware is needed unless your monitor / TV does not support HDR. then, you need a new TV.

 

[scitek]

Found this awhile back when looking up any new info on the subject.

Requirements (in case you missed them in the earlier post):

-NVIDIA GPU from the Maxwell or Pascal families (GTX 960, GTX 980, GTX 1070, GTX 1080, etc)
-HDR display supporting SMPTE 2084 often labeled as HDR10 (most likely a new UHD TV, but you can expect future support from monitors as well)
-Windows 7 or later

On the software side, your application must be able to run in full-screen exclusive mode, and create an fp16 swap chain. These are necessary in order to provide the full precision data to the display driver, so that it can provide the high precision data to the display. If your application does not run in full-screen exclusive mode, the desktop compositor will strip the extra range and precision necessary for HDR. It is important to understand that this is a temporary restriction as Microsoft announced plans for OS support for HDR.

https://developer.nvidia.com/displaying-hdr-nuts-and-bolts

It seems it will be a toggle at the OS-level at some point, but will initially be implemented on a per-game basis. And since that needs a fullscreen-exclusive mode, it means Forza Horizon 3 will NOT have HDR since it will be a shitty Windows 10 Store app that always runs in borderless fullscreen mode.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Not all HDR TV are capable of displaying the wider color gamut. The 2016 Vizio M-series, for example.

If we had any kind of regulation on this stuff Vizio would not be able to call the M-series HDR capable.

 

[abracadaver]

If you happen to think of the tweet of XboxDE I linked in the announcement thread, see above.
If you happen to think of something else, please link when you can

Yes! I thought of the tweet of XboxDE

Why would they take it back?

 

[dsk1210]

So the 980ti I am using runs in HDR mode on my OLED TV.

you can download the HDR SDK from https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Run HDR.bat and make sure to have your dynamic range on full.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

So the 980ti I am using runs in HDR mode on my OLED TV.

you can download the HDR SDK from https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Run HDR.bat and make sure to have your dynamic range on full.

Hmm, so you just execute the bat for general hdr functionality with the card? Or is that more of a developer environment related thing? As I understand it you need the software/video Metadata alone to do the handshake with the display and hdr kicks in accordingly. Not sure the difference as it relates to pc gpus.

 

[bonej]

What is with the obsession with HDR now?

because 4k is almost unnoticeable but HDR is like going from SD to HD. Completely new experience

 

[dsk1210]

Hmm, so you just execute the bat for general hdr functionality with the card? Or is that more of a developer environment related thing? As I understand it you need the software/video Metadata alone to do the handshake with the display and hdr kicks in accordingly. Not sure the difference as it relates to pc gpus.

Its completely for developers.

HDR will need to be patched into games individually.

Nice to see that the 900 series seems to do HDR though, I was hoping that i would not need a gpu upgrade as I am planning to hold out another year till the 1180ti.

 

[Momentary]

When I saw HDR content for the first time I was like, "Oh okay..." I could tell the difference, but in way shape or form did I see it as the second coming of the TV for me. I'm more 120fps/144fps content.

When I experienced VR for the 1st time I was like......."GODDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[dark10x]

Hmm, so you just execute the bat for general hdr functionality with the card? Or is that more of a developer environment related thing? As I understand it you need the software/video Metadata alone to do the handshake with the display and hdr kicks in accordingly. Not sure the difference as it relates to pc gpus.

This program does produce HDR. It's a simple image with a variety of toggles, but it does initiate HDR on an HDR capable TV. Thus far, it's the only thing I've found on the PC that can actually output HDR. Just waiting on some games to implement it.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I just downloaded the Nvidia HDR SDK and goofed around with it using a 980ti and Sammy KS7000. The TV popped up with a "Recognized HDR content" bubble.

I have no real clue what I'm doing in the SDK though

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Its completely for developers.

HDR will need to be patched into games individually.

Nice to see that the 900 series seems to do HDR though, I was hoping that i would not need a gpu upgrade as I am planning to hold out another year till the 1180ti.

Alright thx for the clarification, I knew about games needing proper support patched in, I'm a bit less hopeful for anything more than a slow trickle in the pc space on that end, due to well, almost zero monitors with hdr being available. It's kinda weird console space having this broad support (software) before pc. Tempted to pick up a ps4 pro in the interim.

This program does produce HDR. It's a simple image with a variety of toggles, but it does initiate HDR on an HDR capable TV. Thus far, it's the only thing I've found on the PC that can actually output HDR. Just waiting on some games to implement it.

Curious what dev will be the first to throw down support. Probably an indie/small project.

 

[yatesl]

But guys

What about Half Life 2: Lost Coast

 

[mugurumakensei]

Alright thx for the clarification, I knew about games needing proper support patched in, I'm a bit less hopeful for anything more than a slow trickle in the pc space on that end, due to well, almost zero monitors with hdr being available. It's kinda weird console space having this broad support before pc. Tempted to pick up a ps4 pro in the interim.

any TV you have that can output HDR can be used as a PC monitor through HDMI 2.0. Getting the right DPI so text doesn't look weird is the hardest part about using a TV as monitor for PC.

though software support remains an issue.

 

[Hawk269]

Can I have 4k + 144hz + OLED + HDR + 1-3ms screen soon plz?
I will buy it.

...and what hardware will you use to drive that????

 

[dsk1210]

When I saw HDR content for the first time I was like, "Oh okay..." I could tell the difference, but in way shape or form did I see it as the second coming of the TV for me. I'm more 120fps/144fps content.

When I experienced VR for the 1st time I was like......."GODDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

This thread is about HDR though?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

This thread is about HDR though?

He's referring to the HDR/VR mini-derail a couple posts up.

 

[Momentary]

...and what hardware will you use to drive that????

I'm guessing by the time a screen like that releases we will be on round 2 of Volta Cards.

My Titan Pascal can run less demanding games like Mad Max and ReCore around 110-120fps maxed at 4K DSR right now.

This thread is about HDR though?

Sorry. There was a discussion on whether or not HDR was an incremental improvement or not. For me it is. I guess for some it's a revolution.

 

[Durante]

So the 980ti I am using runs in HDR mode on my OLED TV.

you can download the HDR SDK from https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Run HDR.bat and make sure to have your dynamic range on full.

Thanks for testing that.

I was pretty certain Maxwell would have no issue outputting HDR, but it's nice to see definite confirmation.

 

[Quixz]

Can I have 4k + 144hz + OLED + HDR + 1-3ms screen soon plz?
I will buy it.

Add G-Sync and I'm in.

Possibly a small price of $10K or £1283612396543535

 

[Henrar]

Can I have 4k + 144hz + OLED + HDR + 1-3ms screen soon plz?
I will buy it.

There's 30 inch 120Hz 4K OLED 10-bit monitor from Dell and it costs five thousand US dollars. And it doesn't support HDR nor G-Sync/Freesync. Next year I guess, they'll release new model, which has HDR but no framerate syncing technology.

 

[Momentary]

There's 30 inch 120Hz 4K OLED 10-bit monitor from Dell and it costs five thousand US dollars. And it doesn't support HDR nor G-Sync/Freesync. Next year I guess, they'll release new model, which has HDR but no framerate syncing technology.

Yeah.... In 2 years something of similar specs will cost a fraction of that. Early 2019 is right around the corner.

 

[Evo X]

because 4k is almost unnoticeable but HDR is like going from SD to HD. Completely new experience

Lol. Almost unnoticeable, really?

Put a 1080p monitor next to a 4K native one, then boot up a game. It's a massive difference. 1080p looks like a blurry mess by comparison. Need to get your eyesight a checked if you can't see that.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

any TV you have that can output HDR can be used as a PC monitor through HDMI 2.0. Getting the right DPI so text doesn't look weird is the hardest part about using a TV as monitor for PC.

though software support remains an issue.

Gotcha, thx for the info.

This thread is about HDR though?

The irony is VR stans will likely be shitting themselves all over again once the first hdr paneled headset comes out.

Thanks for testing that.

I was pretty certain Maxwell would have no issue outputting HDR, but it's nice to see definite confirmation.

Yeah you didn't seem certain

I've heard many conflicting pieces of info re: hdr on pc, and it makes sense seeing as there isn't a single game with it patched into on the platform currently. I know ROTR is supposedly getting it via patch, so it will be interesting to see a DF rundown (or on here) of the range of cards it outputs properly on/takes advantage of full spectrum etc. Exciting times ahead for display tech.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The irony is VR stans will likely be shitting themselves all over again once the first hdr paneled headset comes out.

Or how about you just knock it off with the platform-wars-esque nonsense? If you can make a decent argument without resorting to warz bullshit, don't even bother.

 

[Lister]

Lol. Almost unnoticeable, really?

Put a 1080p monitor next to a 4K native one, then boot up a game. It's a massive difference. 1080p looks like a blurry mess by comparison. Need to get your eyesight a checked if you can't see that.

I thought he was being sarcastic....