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[NYCmetsfan]

So consumer protection shouldn't exist for things $60 or less? Or just if people aren't physically harmed? When should consumer protections start?

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Im not sure what level of consequence is acceptable to those incensed but what Hello Games did

This ASA could at very least make them fix the steam page to be more representative

People seem to getting off seeing them drop as low as they can go though

They were already denounced by critics, their community and even tok a shot from Sony themselves about mismanaging expectations

How are they getting away with a scam again?

 

[Ensirius]

Deserved.

 

[Anticol]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

Oh god, what am I reading...

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Im not sure what level of consequence is acceptable to those incensed but what Hello Games did

This ASA could at very least make them fix the steam page to be more representative

People seem to getting off seeing them drop as low as they can go though

They were already denounced by critics, their community and even tok a shot from Sony themselves about mismanaging expectations

How are they getting away with a scam again?

They made huge amounts of money under (arguably) purposefully misleading marketing, promises and "gameplay" footage.

 

[Permanently A]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

Wow.

So game developer says the game has a certain feature, people buy it expecting that feature, that feature is nowhere to be found = no false advertisement and no need for consumer protection in your opinion. Is that right?

 

[Soulflarz]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

This is one of the more anti consumer posts I've seen on GAF, thats for sure.

 

[etrain911]

I'm honestly shocked that there have been no class action suits. Is Murray still silent?

 

[Gator86]

Im not sure what level of consequence is acceptable to those incensed but what Hello Games did

This ASA could at very least make them fix the steam page to be more representative

People seem to getting off seeing them drop as low as they can go though

They were already denounced by critics, their community and even tok a shot from Sony themselves about mismanaging expectations

How are they getting away with a scam again?

Yup, their sad feelings definitely returned people's money who bought the game based on its scummy promotion. Nope, definitely not a thing that happened. I'm excited to see where this goes. There needs to be some level of standard for publishers to keep in mind when trying to move their games.

 

[Jebusman]

Im not sure what level of consequence is acceptable to those incensed but what Hello Games did

This ASA could at very least make them fix the steam page to be more representative

People seem to getting off seeing them drop as low as they can go though

They were already denounced by critics, their community and even tok a shot from Sony themselves about mismanaging expectations

How are they getting away with a scam again?

Are we just going to conveniently forget that they still sold this product for $60 a pop, for at least (by my rough count) over a million copies across the platforms.

Whether or not people want to call it an actual "scam", they had definitely made away with the money at this point.

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

No consumer item on earth should be exempt from consumer protections. That's literally how it all works. Either all or nothing, no making "exemptions" because you don't want to hurt a company's feelings.

 

[DrROBschiz]

They made huge amounts of money under (arguably) purposefully misleading marketing, promises and "gameplay" footage.

They might of made money anyways. You saying the sales from people that DID enjoy the product arent legitimate

The market reality will match the severity of what mistakes they made

Unless you guys are sitting on some final adjusted numbers i dont see the problem

 

[Lagamorph]

Wow.

So game developer says the game has a certain feature, people buy it expecting that feature, that feature is nowhere to be found = no false advertisement and no need for consumer protection in your opinion. Is that right?

It's all part of the "experience"

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Very good. Not sure if anything will come out of this but false advertising is a disgrace.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

Why should they be exempt of scrutiny when they show or say things which end up not being in the product when they're advertising it?

 

[Caayn]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

So. If I make a game and advertise it as "you can do everything" before and after it has been released. While the actual game is "you can do nothing. Press start on the main menu and the credit rolls". You'd be fine with it because "art", "entertainment" or "experience".

Spoiler

Yeah I know it's an extreme example, but it's just there to help illustrate a point

 

[rashbeep]

Really? Shit, someone tell them about Bioshock Infinite, Watch Dogs, or everything Bethesda touches.

None of those are even close to the mess NMS is.

 

[Patrick Young]

Somehow only the United States will get some kind of refund just like the old consoles, the 970's and everything else, so I don't care what happens to them.

Only the US doesn't deserve to get ripped off apparently.

 

[RedRum]

I'm also pretty sure that there were other things that were lied about or misrepresented in Sean's interview. It wasn't just the MP aspect. There was a pretry thorough post about it. Not sure if anything has changed regarding those features.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Which ways?

Molyneux said you could have children in fable and "that the game would span your hero’s whole lifetime; that you could knock an acorn off a tree and slowly, over the course of the game, watch it grow into a tree of its own" - Kotaku

That's just one instance in one game.

The two ways in which I feel he went beyond Molyneux:

- Lying about there being any sort of multiplayer in the game. Thats a whole core 'mode' to the game that isn't even signalled as ever having been in the games files. I guess Godus had multi stuff cut, but I feel even Molyneux was more upfront about certain stuff not making the cut. Sean was still trying to spin players "meeting each other" the day after release.

- Lying about the end of the game. Sean Murray joked in an interview with a viewer question about how the end of the game being a fade to black troll would be terrible. The entire core driving concept of the game "get to the centre of the universe" is an incredible troll. There's nothing. Even Molyneux's scam shit Curiosity had something there at the centre of the cube.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yup, their sad feelings definitely returned people's money who bought the game based on its scummy promotion. Nope, definitely not a thing that happened. I'm excited to see where this goes. There needs to be some level of standard for publishers to keep in mind when trying to move their games.

Are you sitting on a mountain of data of angry customers that couldnt get a refund or return the game?

Wtf are you even suggesting here

 

[Cth]

You're saying that watching an interview with the lead designer of the game isn't a good way to get informed about it.

O k a y .

Given how you didn't understand what I posted, you only reinforced my original point.

By your reasoning, if someone hasn't gone to every remote possible website/tv show/newspaper/web link/word of mouth/store employee/grocery store employee/neighbor down the street/politician/etc/etc they're not an informed customer.

Which clearly isn't what I said.

The typical consumer isn't going to Colbert to get said info. Hell, for anyone who truly was following the game's development, the Colbert interview was a blip on the radar. It only became widespread when Reddit did their list and people started whipping themselves into a frenzy. Acting like the majority (or even 1/10th of people) saw that interview and said, "Oh gee, NOW I'm sold. To be able to see another player's model, that's unheard of in video games!" is specious at best.

It's totally understandable for the handful of people who saw the interview and felt betrayed, they're fully justified, but to try and make it sound like it's the typical experience is laughable to me.

 

[flkraven]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

So if Sean Murray released a No Man's Sky - The Movie, but in the box was just a video of Murray diving into a pile of money like scrooge mcduck, no consumer protection is needed since we got to 'experience' a movie?

 

[Leafhopper]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

What

 

[Steve.1981]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

Dude, come on. False advertising is a thing and it's important to call it out.

I love No Man's Sky. I'll defend it and Hello Games, where appropriate. This isn't one of those times.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Somehow only the United States will get some kind of refund just like the old consoles, the 970's and everything else, so I don't care what happens to them.

Only the US doesn't deserve to get ripped off apparently.

What are the refund laws and data overseas

Lots of people spitting out info without giving us key information

 

[ChaosZeroX]

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

They might of made money anyways. You saying the sales from people that DID enjoy the product arent legitimate

The market reality will match the severity of what mistakes they made

Unless you guys are sitting on some final adjusted numbers i dont see the problem

I'm not sure what you misunderstood, but I am not saying no-one who bought the game enjoyed it? However, as I said, many who bought it based on false promises and footage feel cheated and disappointed and do not enjoy the product. Unless you claim there are no people who do not enjoy the game and feel it isn't what was promised?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I wish Sean all the best.

 

[DeathSparks]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

That doesn't make any sense, No Man's Sky is being sold as a product for $60.

Most of the marketing wasn't represented in the final game.

 

[Soulflarz]

What are the refund laws and data overseas

Lots of people spitting out info without giving us key information

Pretty sure the EU has a lot more consumer friendly laws than the US does.
Could be wrong though? Also, he could be somewhere else >.>

 

[Omega Kirby]

. .

Bioshock infinite is still a magnificent game

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Wow.

So game developer says the game has a certain feature, people buy it expecting that feature, that feature is nowhere to be found = no false advertisement and no need for consumer protection in your opinion. Is that right?

If it says its runs on xbox but only runs on pc, or doesn't work, then yes.

If a year and a half before the release a creator says something in a few interviews and people take that as gospel? No.

this stuff is absurd and shouldn't be protected by consumer law

 

[Neverthelesser]

For entertainment products like this?

No, not really unless its defective (even then this stuff is so goddamn minor and isn't a health and safety concern). I think "experiences" like movies, arts and games should generally be exempt.

It's so hard to draw the line on what counts as an "experience" that you don't even indicate it yourself, though. If we should "generally" exempt this kind of entertainment, then what on earth isn't exempt?

It's all just a flimsy way to excuse poor advertising.

 

[Gator86]

Are you sitting on a mountain of data of angry customers that couldnt get a refund or return the game?

Wtf are you even suggesting here

My post is in English. The promotion of the game was deceptive. People bought the game based on its promotion. Their promotional strategy should be investigated further, and the results will likely inform publishers about what they can and should do in promoting their games in the future. I never made any comment about hordes of people being denied refunds.

 

[Anticol]

If it says its runs on xbox but only runs on pc, or doesn't work, then yes.

If a year and a half before the release a creator says something in a few interviews and people take that as gospel? No.

Dude seriously, stop with your anti-consumer arguments. I get that you love NMS but what you're saying is nuts.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Be an informed consumer?

But I was. I looked up various interviews, and watched various gameplay demos from E3 and other places. How is it my fault that what was sold to me during the aforementioned interviews and videos were complete lies?

 

[jrush64]

What exact features were missing that were promised apart from Multiplayer? Is there like a place where i can see them?

 

[Paz]

Are some people incapable of reading articles? I'm not a NMS hater by any stretch but this is an interesting complaint and it has little to do with releasing work in progress content ala Bioshock or Watch Dogs, it seems entirely based around the games store presence and I think that might be legitimate.

If Bioshock and Watch Dogs shipped with their fake trailers on the store page and the back of their boxes then that would be a worthy comparison, but looking at Bioshock Infinite's Steam page right now all I see are real trailers/screens that represent the final game.

Now it's really about wether or not those trailers/images are truly misrepresentation, which I have not played enough NMS to comment on.

 

[James Scott]

But I was. I looked up various interviews, and watched various gameplay demos from E3 and other places. How is it my fault that what was sold to me during the aforementioned interviews and videos were complete lies?

There were also 0 reviews day one

 

[Permanently A]

By your reasoning, if someone hasn't gone to every remote possible website/tv show/newspaper/web link/word of mouth/store employee/grocery store employee/neighbor down the street/politician/etc/etc they're not an informed customer.

I never said anything remotely like that. In fact I am basically arguing the opposite. My point is that watching the Colbert interview is a perfectly normal way of being informed, and you can't blame a consumer for being "uninformed" when they are getting misleading information from the person who is most qualified to give them information about the game. I really have no idea why you think my reasoning is what you posted. Perhaps you have me confused with another poster.

 

[Copenap]

IMO this is pretty stupid, of all the bullshit that is constantly pulled (MS during xbone launch anyone?) this really doesn't take the cake and the whole NMS fiasco was blown out of proportion.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

If it says its runs on xbox but only runs on pc, or doesn't work, then yes.

If a year and a half before the release a creator says something in a few interviews and people take that as gospel? No.

this stuff is absurd and shouldn't be protected by consumer law

So you actually do not have any reasoning to explain your viewpoint except defend those poor poor developper trying to oversell and under deliver.

 

[flkraven]

But I was. I looked up various interviews, and watched various gameplay demos from E3 and other places. How is it my fault that what was sold to me during the aforementioned interviews and videos were complete lies?

Don't you get it? You are supposed to see through the lies. It isn't Murray's fault that he's a lying scumbag. It's your fault for being naïve and falling for it.

 

[Stone Ocean]

If it says its runs on xbox but only runs on pc, or doesn't work, then yes.

If a year and a half before the release a creator says something in a few interviews and people take that as gospel? No.

this stuff is absurd and shouldn't be protected by consumer law

How dare people trust someone promoting their product, the creator of the game no less. And it wasn't a year and a half, he was still saying these things this year.

If you make promises you aren't going to keep then you're supposed to correct them, not let them linger and go radio silent when called out.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

There were also 0 reviews day one

To be fair though I don't put much stock into reviews. If a game interests me I pick it up regardless and take the risk. The difference here being that if No Man's Sky was sold to me as it actually is, I wouldn't have picked it up.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I didn't know Sean Murray was a Mets fan.

 

[Kysen]

Sean Murray right now:

Advertising standards?

 

[Dr.Parity]

So you actually do not have any reasoning to explain your viewpoint except defend those poor poor developper trying to oversell and under deliver.

You could have read his post instead of being condensending

 

[Wedzi]

Shuhei Yoshida's comments now make more sense. Smart of Sony to try and separate themselves from this.

Hopefully there are some lessons to be learned from this whole ordeal.

 

[DeathSparks]

I'll say this, NMS has taught me one thing.

Don't buy into the hype for games like this until the final game comes out, if anything take trailers and screenshots with a grain of salt.