Support NeoGAF

[Krejlooc]

For a long time I kept thinking that Trump would at some point pull out of this nose dive and perhaps reveal that he was exaggerating his persona to galvanize the right with the intent to take his foot off that pedal as the general election neared.

Next time you think like this, remember occams razor: Is it more likely that the guy's entire personality was a conspiracy to trick idiots into backing him, or is he a duck that is walking, quacking, and acting like a duck?

 

[Acerac]

I thought it might get a couple of replies and then go to the second page. In retrospect, I could see how parts of my post were inflammatory to some here, and I regret that. I was really looking for more of a discussion about the American swing vote by giving myself as an example.

In all fairness a few of your responses have proven to be legitimately enlightening. The point you shared about not paying attention to Trump before the presidential portion of the election was helpful for understanding how one would find him less objectionable.

Thanks for putting up with the harsh replies you've gotten in the thread.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It's people who think it's a strategy to appeal to an audience that is known to be heavily racist. It's hoping for too much for a man who hasn't really shown to be that clever in strategy, but whatever it's their view.

I live in Texas and I have latino and hindu friends and coworkers who approve of his views in the potitical aspect. It happens. The racist views don't personally affect them in their life and regular routine, so they ignore it and focus on his platform.

No, not whatever. It's unacceptable, and shouldn't be hand-waved away. (and racism is his platform, right out of the gate)

 

[Durden77]

People in this thread, ask yourself how Hillary would handle being in a room with OP and them speaking what they posted in the OP to her and having a conversation about it.

Do you think she would call them an idiot and to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit because it took them too long to realize their mistakes?

Or do you think she'd have an open conversation with them on who they are, where their motives come from, what she can do to continue to change their mind, lead them down the right path, and hopefully secure their vote?

Yeah I know you're not running for President GAF, but it'd be nice if we at least tried to live the ideals that the candidate most of us believe in is supposed to represent.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Not gonna lie, you guys are acting like some real assholes right now to someone who just switched their vote from Trump. Did it take them awhile in doing so? Yes. Can you be upset at that? Sure. But by no means does that give you the right to jump down their throat about it. There are some of you (and you damn well know who you are) who are waaaaay too invested in this ordeal and really, really need to step back because you're not helping. Chill out.

we don't agree on anime, but we can agree on this.

No, not whatever. It's unacceptable, and shouldn't be hand-waved away. (and racism is his platform, right out of the gate)

It might be unacceptable to you, I'm giving the point of view of folks I know that don't put that much weight on it. Call it a 'fuck you got mine' mentality for them as they're minorities, but that's the reality. And again, they hand wave it away because they don't think he can be that bad.

 

[Nokterian]

Can i add this is the same happening in the netherlands with that racist Geert Wilders? he doesn't have a solution to anything he just shouts just like trump and people do not wake up it is infuriating to see how people not thinking for them self and reflecting on what that person is really saying on how it affects everyone.

 

[SDBurton]

we don't agree on anime, but we can agree on this.

Definitely.

 

[ffdgh]

Surprised it took this long...but hey better late than later lol

 

[royalan]

I think I need to back away from this thread. I am sorry if parts of my post were inflammatory toward Clinton supporters. This is not the path that I had intended for this discussion to take, and replying to posts has painted me into appearing to defend Trump while I was trying to explain my previous ambivalence. Thank you to those who took the time to engage in a dialogue with me.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

If that is what you're taking from this thread, you're not paying attention to what people in this thread are trying to convey.

I commend your change of heart, but I wasn't offended by parts of your post as a Clinton supporter. I was offended as a black gay male. I was offended as a human being who likes to consider himself decent and sympathetic to the plights and rights of women and minorities in this country who have been relentlessly attacked by Donald Trump himself, his campaign, and his supporters.

Liking Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with that.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You and others think you are having a conversation, but it's incredibly one-sided here. Instead of "why did you think like that?", it's "you are a shitty person for thinking like that full stop". You keep running back to what he did instead of why he did it.

Firstly, I've never called OP a shitty a person, I said that they should be criticized for taking as long as they did.

Secondly, we're directly talking about why he did the things that he did. I don't really know why you think that isn't the case.

 

[Astral Dog]

its alright both sides are as ugly as Trumps ass cheeks

 

[lazypants]

I believe in compassion and second chances unlike most people here so good job seeing the light OP. But the election is important and next time you should take some time to really look at the evidence and the candidates stances on issues. I'm sure if you did that you would have realized he was serious sooner.

 

[Staccat0]

I don't wanna dogpile here, but I have to say... People who legit vote based on mind reading make me furious. Especially becuase their ESP always seems to give the befit of the doubt to white guys.

Whatever. I dunno why you made a thread or what you thought would happen. Vote how you want, but it comes across pretty gross TBH

Hopefully you'll follow the candidates closer next time and learn something from this circus of an election.

 

[FromAtoX]

While both candidates feel slimy to me this year, at least Clinton seems to have an idea of how to be a president. Sorry, but she gives me the impression that she is a bit cynical and possibly "crooked" behind closed doors, and I'm not sure she's personable enough for Americans to actually like her over the next 4 years, but she has enough outward tact and political clout at least for basic diplomacy, something Trump lacks severely. And while her husband may be equally detestable in his attitudes towards women, he is not the actual candidate in this race.
I don't expect to be a proud supporter of Clinton in the election, and I remain skeptical about whether or not she will make a good president, but I feel like I can't in good conscience not vote against Trump. My traditionally conservative friends and family still seem torn about whether or not they'll toe the line and vote Trump. Some have considered abstaining from voting altogether, but I wonder if these final weeks will have the same effect on them as it has on me.

Hey OP I'm glad that you changed your mind and are considering voting for Hillary. If you care enough try to find out more about HRC her policies and her actual work and accomplishments. Check her Politifact and compare it to a politician you like, she is actually pretty good.

 

[BigBeauford]

I believe in compassion and second chances unlike most people here so good job seeing the light OP. But the election is important and next time you should take some time to really look at the evidence and the candidates stances on issues. I'm sure if you did that you would have realized he was serious sooner.

Didn't the OP already do this by coming to terms with who he/she will be voting for?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You are way too emotionally invested in this thread, calm down. :/
Literally spamming every page with the same bit about him possibly thinking that Hillary is "crooked". We can all read, you don't need to repeat it.

OP wasn't answering. I need more from the OP than "I just felt like she was probably crooked and not personable enough for us" vs even just Trump's direct involvement in institutional racism, let alone any of his other qualities. That they'd think like that for 16 months is frustrating, on a national and social level. So I want more.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I don't understand the hoopla here, the only reason why Trump got where his, why so much of his rhetoric became normalized and took so much of the damn internet, is because of people embracing his buffoonery and racism completely, or not caring, or holding their noses because of party over country. It's perfectly understandable why people would lash the fuck out. This never should've fucking happened, and in 2016, it's really fucking disturbing that it did. It's shameful, it really is.

I'm definitely not saying to dog-pile, but excuses don't really fly at this point, that's just the way it is, and these Republicans politicians now un-endorsing better not be let off the hook. Enablers, of all them.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Because people's feelings are hurt for having a political opinion? I don't get why this is a concern to people.

I mean, I've seen the Hillary GAF dog piles, but I think OP should at least have some sort of response for how he measured Hillary to be on a "possibly crooked" level equal to Trump's xenophobia, racism, sexism, hate, and never paying taxes.

voting for trump to spite someone who annoys you on an internet video game message board makes you not just a bad person but incredibly pathetic too

It's crazy to me that you guys think that the divisions in your country are going to be healed by calling people idiots and "throwing shit at them." Neither of you are Hilary Clinton, no one on here is Donald Trump, you're citizens who have a vote. Discuss, break it down, talk about it. Stop calling each other idiots because you don't agree with their stance. This might be the dumbest election in history but that isn't an excuse to degrade and belittle other people, it only solidifies their opinion and, yes, it's exactly another reason why people would vote for Trump. Positioning yourself on some unassailable morale high ground because you're voting for Clinton makes even having a conversation with you very unappealing.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

People in this thread, ask yourself how Hillary would handle being in a room with OP and them speaking what they posted in the OP to her and having a conversation about it.

Do you think she would call them an idiot and to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit because it took them too long to realize their mistakes?

Or do you think she'd have an open conversation with them on who they are, where their motives come from, what she can do to continue to change their mind, lead them down the right path, and hopefully secure their vote?

Yeah I know you're not running for President GAF, but it'd be nice if we at least tried to live the ideals that the candidate most of us believe in is supposed to represent.

This is a good post. This is real.

 

[King Tubby]

Good on you, OP. Thanks for seeing the light.

I remember other people on GAF, when it came to Duterte, making similar comments about how they thought he was simply bloviating before the election and wouldn't take it so far.

When a candidate says horrific things, take them at their word.

 

[BigBeauford]

There has been no consequence to him doing this sooner or later. The fact is, he didn't vote for Trump. If people came to their senses much sooner, Trump wouldn't be on the republican ticket, and Hilary's odds of winning would be much lower.

 

[theWB27]

This is a good post. This is real.

Try that route then

 

[Trojita]

It's good that you've come to this conclusion before it was too late.

 

[NeonBlack]

As I said, I was under the impression that he was pandering to a certain audience and would not actually carry these ideals with him to the presidential election.

Catering to racist is fine but not sexist?

 

[Battlechili]

I consider myself to be neutral politically, and my vote has tended to swing from one side to the other in previous elections. I'm not a particular fan of my choices in this election, especially given the hideous mudslinging from both sides, so I've been waiting to decide whom to vote for/against or whether to even vote at all. I've been doing my best to keep an open mind and see if either one will say something that will swing me to one side, and up until recently, I was coming up empty-handed.

For a long time I kept thinking that Trump would at some point pull out of this nose dive and perhaps reveal that he was exaggerating his persona to galvanize the right with the intent to take his foot off that pedal as the general election neared. Now, after his poor show at the last debate and the recent recordings of his misogynistic attitudes and subsequent non-apology, I just can't envision myself voting for the guy.

While both candidates feel slimy to me this year, at least Clinton seems to have an idea of how to be a president. Sorry, but she gives me the impression that she is a bit cynical and possibly "crooked" behind closed doors, and I'm not sure she's personable enough for Americans to actually like her over the next 4 years, but she has enough outward tact and political clout at least for basic diplomacy, something Trump lacks severely. And while her husband may be equally detestable in his attitudes towards women, he is not the actual candidate in this race.
I don't expect to be a proud supporter of Clinton in the election, and I remain skeptical about whether or not she will make a good president, but I feel like I can't in good conscience not vote against Trump. My traditionally conservative friends and family still seem torn about whether or not they'll toe the line and vote Trump. Some have considered abstaining from voting altogether, but I wonder if these final weeks will have the same effect on them as it has on me.

Instead of seeing the election as Clinton vs Trump, you could always see it as Clinton vs Trump vs Stein vs Johnson.
You don't have to choose between the two. If you aren't particularly fond of Clinton or Trump, don't feel that you have to vote for the least worst. Do more research into the Green and Libertarian parties. See if they suit you any.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't wanna dogpile here, but I have to say... People who legit vote based on mind reading make me furious. Especially becuase their ESP always seems to give the befit of the doubt to white guys.

Yeah, this is my perspective. The vote doesn't matter as much as how OP was judging his choices. It's astonishing that on a personal level the candidates would be anywhere close in their estimation, and I want more from OP for it to make sense.

40% of Trump supporters just flat out think a man is better than a woman for president, leaving Hillary out of it at all. This is fucking shameful.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Firstly, I've never called OP a shitty a person, I said that they should be criticized for taking as long as they did.

Secondly, we're directly talking about why he did the things that he did. I don't really know why you think that isn't the case.

Well do you see how well your route went? Dude straight up left the table. Or do you think he's at fault for doing so?

 

[CloudyTuba]

I think it's kinda sad the horrible racist stuff wasn't enough but now he's gone too far

Yeah. Completely ridiculous that it took this much for some people. Shows a major lack of insight and critical thinking. The rest of us already understood that he was this kind of guy and we didnt need the video from 2005 to know it because it's how he lives every day of his life. All you have to do is listen to him speak. For us, all this video did was show the people that are slow to catch on what we already know.

...but at least we're all making in there together in the end. Someone changing in a positive direction is to be celebrated even if they started low.

As I said, I was under the impression that he was pandering to a certain audience and would not actually carry these ideals with him to the presidential election.

You were seriously considering electing a man president because you invented a better version of him in your imagination and just hoped it came true?

Really think about that dude and consider your decision making so that you do better in the future. Like, really dwell on that shit. That's what you did.

 

[Captin Quacker]

Well do you see how well your route went? Dude straight up left the table. Or do you think he's at fault for doing so?

Again if this was all it took then they were never serious

With Trump it's literally a day and night difference

 

[kmfdmpig]

People in this thread, ask yourself how Hillary would handle being in a room with OP and them speaking what they posted in the OP to her and having a conversation about it.

Do you think she would call them an idiot and to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit because it took them too long to realize their mistakes?

Or do you think she'd have an open conversation with them on who they are, where their motives come from, what she can do to continue to change their mind, lead them down the right path, and hopefully secure their vote?

Yeah I know you're not running for President GAF, but it'd be nice if we at least tried to live the ideals that the candidate most of us believe in is supposed to represent.

Well said. While it seems odd to me that someone would have been OK with Trump 24 hours ago the reality is that people have different views, different interest levels with politics, and different priorities.

If we are angry at the OP for coming around should we also be angry at the millions of Americans who have switched from Trump to Hillary in the last two weeks (based on what the polls tell us)? Personally, as long as Hillary wins, and ideally wins in a strong enough way to repudiate Trump's ugly campaign strategies, then I'll be happy.

 

[Hip Hop]

Again if this was all it took then they were never serious

You're never gonna make progress with that kind of rationale.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Again if this was all it took then they were never serious

With Trump it's literally a day and night difference

'posts he switched sides, tries to explain reasoning*

*gets dog piled with mix of aggressive posts*

*leaves*

"Well if that's all it took they were never serious!"

 

[Makai]

What can he do? If he going to suddenly become likable and convince us all to going his racist and misogynistic cause?

He would literally have to come out as a completely different person with a completely different history and with a completely different set of policies.

That stuff wasn't enough to sway OP. Friendly face might do it.

 

[Makai]

You and others think you are having a conversation, but it's incredibly one-sided here. Instead of "why did you think like that?", it's "you are a shitty person for thinking like that full stop". You keep running back to what he did instead of why he did it.

Yeah, honestly we are being extremely mean to OP here. Better to embrace the new recruits.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Again if this was all it took then they were never serious

With Trump it's literally a day and night difference

All it took was a bunch of people telling they don't want to talk. Most people on any poticial spectrum would leave if the other side isn't willing to even talk.

Cmon son you know that shit is wrong.

 

[Measley]

So scapegoating black and brown people to an angry mob of white people is just a joke to you?

Fucking wow.

 

[Rentahamster]

One would think that amassing as many people on one's team is priority number one. However, we can see that lording one's moral superiority over others is actually a higher priority for some people.

I'm pulling numbers out of my ass now, but I feel like the Bernie and Trump convert voters are being suppressed a good 10% or so by this phenomenon. Why would people want to voice their newfound support if, instead of being welcomed with open arms by team #ImWithHer, they get shit on for their previous support for Trump (or Bernie in the primaries)? What's the point?

If you are shitting on the OP, you're not being an effective team player.

 

[Captin Quacker]

You're never gonna make progress with that kind of rationale.

Neither will coddling people who have no problem watching everybody but them get shat on

 

[lazypants]

People in this thread, ask yourself how Hillary would handle being in a room with OP and them speaking what they posted in the OP to her and having a conversation about it.

Do you think she would call them an idiot and to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit because it took them too long to realize their mistakes?

Or do you think she'd have an open conversation with them on who they are, where their motives come from, what she can do to continue to change their mind, lead them down the right path, and hopefully secure their vote?

Yeah I know you're not running for President GAF, but it'd be nice if we at least tried to live the ideals that the candidate most of us believe in is supposed to represent.

Good post right here. Its obvious OP was simply mislead by headlines and misinformation about how evil and corrupt Hilary is. That doesn't make you a horrible piece of human garbage as some people are implying. Especially since OP realized the truth and is voting for Hilary. I never imagined someone saying they are voting for Hilary could evoke such anger by Hilary supporters.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

As I said, I was under the impression that he was pandering to a certain audience and would not actually carry these ideals with him to the presidential election.

I am 100% certain you are white because of this statement

 

[rashbeep]

You and others think you are having a conversation, but it's incredibly one-sided here. Instead of "why did you think like that?", it's "you are a shitty person for thinking like that full stop". You keep running back to what he did instead of why he did it.

I agree, but I tend to get slightly annoyed when someone supports a candidate who would see people like myself banned from the country.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Neither will coddling people who have no problem watching everybody but them get shat on

Attempting to have a civil conversation is coddling?

I am 100% certain you are white because of this statement

Because no minority could ever have this point of view? Better tell the folks down here they're all white now.

 

[Hip Hop]

Neither will coddling people who have no problem watching everybody but them get shat on

So scapegoating black and brown people to an angry mob of white people is just a joke to you?

Fucking wow.

I am 100% certain you are white because of this statement

Saying this as a latino not born in this country, keep it going if you want, shit like this will get us nowhere.

You are a bigger problem than OP at this point

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I don't mean to give bigots an out, but it's not hard to imagine someone tunnel visioning Trump's anti-establishment, anti-corruption rhetoric and completely tuning out or compartmentalizing the disgusting things he's said. The idea of someone with no political history coming in and taking the country by storm with his business acumen and radical perspective is very appealing in a romanticized way.

 

[Cuburt]

I'm amazed people are still holding onto the "this is all an act/persona, he'll pivot to presidential any day now" idea in October.

It's good OP has come around, but it sounds like you already knew in your heart what the real deal was all along with both candidates, you just let the small nebulous doubt in Hillary (and the benefit of the doubt that you give Trump for whatever inexpiable reason) stop you.

 

[BigBeauford]

Attempting to have a civil conversation is coddling?



Because no minority could ever have this point of view? Better tell the folks down here they're all white now.

Nah, make sure you rub their noses in their own urine and swat them with a newspaper. That'll learn them.

 

[Future]

Definitely hard to believe this could be the last straw for anyone. Trump ran out of straws a long time ago

What he said now was heinous sure. But this man has been pandering to the lowest common deonominator throughout. Hateful people and supremacists announcing support and him denouncing none of it. He's encouraging division in the people which is the worst thing any leader can do

I used to watch the apprentice. Trump is a funny dude no doubt. And the initial primary shenanigans was hilarious

But when I saw the audience he was gathering, and actually encouraging through statements, retweets, and bullshit innuendo, it was clear that this is the wrong kind of funny. It is kind of funny in a "I can't believe he said that" kind of way, but it's absolutely the wrong message

Im glad you have seen the light but damn man. I guess it's just hard for me to see how people can rationalize all of his hateful rhetoric away

 

[TheSpoiler]

I agree, but I tend to get slightly annoyed when someone supports a candidate who would see people like myself banned from the country.

Hey I feel you, I'm a minority as well, but at some point if the dude is willing to discuss his wrongs, we need to talk.

 

[Captin Quacker]

All it took was a bunch of people telling they don't want to talk. Most people on any poticial spectrum would leave if the other side isn't willing to even talk.

Cmon son you know that shit is wrong.

Bruh ain't nothing to talk about with Trump all his bullshit is obvious and blatant no ambguity

Hell he started his campaign on let's ban all Muslims and build a wall to keep Mexican rapist and criminals out

If that's not a huge red flag I don't know what is

 

[Principate]

Attempting to have a civil conversation is coddling?

This wasn't going to go any other way. We all knew this, even if you or I were to convince 10 people this isn't the way to about it at least 10 other people would ignore the advice and pile on.This whole thing has gone way too divisive and I'm not even sure you can reasonably expect most people to discuss civilly about opposing view that threaten their lives, jobs, well being and family. This isn't some minor dislike people have for Trump supporters but physical revulsion. (Like the same sort of revulsion Trump supporter have for almost everything else, that or complete apathy).