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[ZombiePlatypus]

Oh definitely. It kind of already has. It's already split between command based fans and action rpg fans. Then there's splitting the game up into parts! That games fan reception is going to be messy and fully features every problem (and positive) I wrote about the franchise is that Dragon Quest popularity in the west thread.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I personally don't care whether VIIr is menue based or more action oriented. I'm just happy it's happening.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Xiii is better than Xii at least. It'll become apparent sometime this year Xp

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

There's no cycle there's a downward spiral.

I never wanted to admit but I think FF has fallen off quite dramatically overall & may never recover.

Tabata & Toriyama(& by extension their close associates) have proven time & again that their products are often fatally flawed in areas that really matter.But that's the kind of leadership that FF is stuck with.

FF needs its own Druckmann/Straley/Hidetaka Miyazaki tier kind of leaders.Maybe Kitase & Nomura will finally turn the tide(?) I am not counting on it.

What they're trying to do now with FFVIIR is recapture a game from a very different time & its a nigh impossible task.A retreading of the past.

I don't think they're trying to recapture so much as they're trying to uh...rejuvenate it for modern audiences. If they wanted to recapture it they would have made it turn based. Instead, it features a new, modern battle system and the works.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

People really need to stop saying that FF13 was a terrible game or the worst game of all time. Seems like most modern gamers do not know what a truly reprehensible game is nowadays. Sure, it had issues, imperfections and some peculiar decisions like with pretty much any game, but it is nowhere near a horrendous game. Not sure why rabid fans insist on hating it so much. It's perfectly fine that you didn't like the game, but I really think gamers exaggerate it's flaws.

That score isn't a validation of XIII's "quality." It's a dent and a hit on game reviewer's credibility.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

People really need to stop saying that FF13 was a terrible game or the worst game of all time. Seems like most modern gamers do not know what a truly reprehensible game is nowadays. Sure, it had issues, imperfections and some peculiar decisions like with pretty much any game, but it is nowhere near a horrendous game. Not sure why rabid fans insist on hating it so much. It's perfectly fine that you didn't like the game, but I really think gamers exaggerate it's flaws.

FFXIII is a bad game. I have explained why I feel this way. I can understand liking some aspects of it. I can understand even liking it or thinking it's good but saying gamers are exaggering its flaws is the wrong ground to take, I think.

I wrote a scathing analysis on why I think FFXIII is a terrible game on here a few months ago but I don't know where it is. Jade Empire got a 9.9 from IGN. Scores don't mean shit.

 

[Isotropy]

There's no cycle there's a downward spiral.

I never wanted to admit but I think FF has fallen off quite dramatically overall & may never recover.

Tabata & Toriyama(& by extension their close associates) have proven time & again that their products are often fatally flawed in areas that really matter.But that's the kind of leadership that FF is stuck with.

FF needs its own Druckmann/Straley/Hidetaka Miyazaki tier kind of leaders.Maybe Kitase & Nomura will finally turn the tide(?) I am not counting on it.

What they're trying to do now with FFVIIR is recapture a game from a very different time & its a nigh impossible task.A retreading of the past.

Maybe so, but at least Square has plenty of well-planned, thoughtfully designed, flawlessly polished bathrooms!

 

[JayEH]

This still is bullshit and only something people who need to feel better than others say. If what you say is true people would be sucking off FFXIII right this second claiming it's the greatest FF to ever do it. This FF cycle is a made up fiction within the cortex of your brain and isn't reality.

There have been plenty of people since XV launched saying that XIII isn't as bad as everyone said it was and that they'd rather have that then XV. I did not see these type of posts pre XV launch. These cycles exist for every major franchise. MGS4 a lot of people hated for its long cutscenes and its twists in the story then MGSV comes out with less cutscenes and emphasis on gameplay and people are clamoring for a game like 4. Same with RE, Zelda, etc. People always hate on the current game until the next game comes out. This is a cycle based on reality.

 

[duckroll]

That score isn't a validation of XIII's "quality." It's a dent and a hit on game reviewer's credibility.

Nope. This is.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Nope. This is.

I haven't played enough of that game, but I don't remember it generating the user backlash that XIII instantly did. But, sure, it's possible.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

There have been plenty of people since XV launched saying that XIII isn't as bad as everyone said it was and that they'd rather have that then XV. I did not see these type of posts pre XV launch. These cycles exist for every major franchise. MGS4 a lot of people hated for its long cutscenes and its twists in the story then MGSV comes out with less cutscenes and emphasis on gameplay and people are clamoring for a game like 4. Same with RE, Zelda, etc. People always hate on the current game until the next game comes out. This is a cycle based on reality.

Have you considered that these people always liked FFXIII? Are you keeping track of which FF's every FF fan likes? Are you expecting every FF fan to like every FF game?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Look can we all just agree a Viii remake would be more profitable than a VI remake...

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I haven't played enough of that game, but I don't remember it generating the user backlash that XIII instantly did. But, sure, it's possible.

It didn't have the instant backlash because we hoped it wasn't as shit as we thought it was and "maybe it gets better the more you play?" It didn't. So by the time people beat the game, a week, a month later, the backlash was set. There was a pretty long mourning and acceptance phase. It didn't come easily because GTAIV was among the most anticipated games at that point.

Look can we all just agree a Viii remake would be more profitable than a VI remake...

We are never getting an VIII remake. ;_;

 

[Toth]

Have you considered that these people always liked FFXIII? Are you keeping track of which FF's every FF fan likes? Are you expecting every FF fan to like every FF game?

It's hard for people to believe this, yes. I am NOT at all shocked the FF hate cycle continues on for the next installment. However, I do think FFXV has had more emotional impact on players than XIII did.

 

[JayEH]

Have you considered that these people always liked FFXIII? Are you keeping track of which FF's every FF fan likes? Are you expecting every FF fan to like every FF game?

I don't know what's there to argue here like I said I see this with every major franchise. People are disappointed in current entry, then look at previous entry and say we had it good then. Repeat. The "GOAT comment" I made was a bit tongue in cheek but the cycle of saying the previous game is so much better is very much true.

 

[duckroll]

GTAIV exposed the reality of reviewer culture at the time. Eager to please their readers by delivering on expected perception, rushing to deliver impressions without letting anything sink in. It was a perfect storm of a super anticipated blockbuster with a serious downward curve in quality as the game progresses. The first half of GTAIV is easily a 9/10 game. By the end though.... roflmao.

 

[Korigama]

Xiii is better than Xii at least. It'll become apparent sometime this year Xp

Not even close.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Not even close.

Can I get a lightning is better than Vann at least

 

[duckroll]

Lightning is a better character than Vaan in Dissidia 012, yes.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Worst birthday ever.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Worst birthday ever.

It's your birthday? Allow me to gift you a psnow membership so you can come to the realization that xiii is awesome

 

[Korigama]

Can I get a lightning is better than Vann at least

Can't say I'm particularly bothered by Vaan, or anyone in XII's cast. Plus, it's quite clear that XII is Ashe's story, who most certainly is better than Lightning. That said, I could sum up my opinion of Lightning as neutral at best (Toriyama's worship of her, and Square Enix's constant shilling of her, being a different subject).

 

[Holundrian]

GTAIV exposed the reality of reviewer culture at the time. Eager to please their readers by delivering on expected perception, rushing to deliver impressions without letting anything sink in. It was a perfect storm of a super anticipated blockbuster with a serious downward curve in quality as the game progresses. The first half of GTAIV is easily a 9/10 game. By the end though.... roflmao.

Isn't it still like that? Diablo III and I believe the last Sim City were similar cases of not letting anything sink in.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

People really need to stop saying that FF13 was a terrible game or the worst game of all time. Seems like most modern gamers do not know what a truly reprehensible game is nowadays. Sure, it had issues, imperfections and some peculiar decisions like with pretty much any game, but it is nowhere near a horrendous game. Not sure why rabid fans insist on hating it so much. It's perfectly fine that you didn't like the game, but I really think gamers exaggerate it's flaws.

There we are.

Why FFXIII is a bad game that I'm too lazy to rewrite. I should bookmark this shit.

That's why it's terrible. I have no idea about this action game thing, but it is not suitable for an rpg. There are numerous games with similar structure to FFXIII, notably Digital Devil Saga of Vagrant Story. These games are pretty much straight tubes and highly linear dungeon crawlers no different from FFXIII in terms of structure but are considered classics. FFXIII simplified rpg gameplay to the point of tedium. The great thing about the aforementioned games is their dungeon design. In DDS dungeons are queen. You complete a dungeon and you get a swanky cutscene and juicy story exposition. Dungeons have purpose and dungeon design is fantastic and among the best there is it to offer in a game of this type. Compared to FFXIII which is mostly pushing up the entire game, making it feel like a neutered experience. Why do people like FFX over XIII? X has texture. We know so much about the culture. We interact with npcs. We get exposition. We learn about pyre flies, the characters have actual motivations as they fight the danger of guarding Yuna to her final battle. FFXIII has no such thing. What tension?

You're surprised that people don't like putting something that would be more apt in a Halo campaign in a Final Fantasy game? A series that has a long history with exploration and storytelling? The game that came right after Final Fantasy XII, a sweepingly large behemoth of a game with mmo-like environments and exploration in a single player experience? And you're surprised? Personally, FFXIII goes against every thing I like about Final Fantasy and everything like about RPGs.

It is trash to me and the only thing it has to offer are battles. If all RPGs had to offer were battles I wouldn't play RPGs. This is coming from someone who loves RPGs with in depth battle systems.

For the record, Final Fantasy X International is one of my favorite FF's, and I really like IV, another linear FF. FFXIII is not only a bad FF it's a bad game.

I liked it in a way too for the battles. But battles alone does not a good rpg make. You need risk and reward in the dungeon design. You need proper exposition and not poorly introducing the player to the world. In FFVII, the game eases you in to it. We know that Shinra is destroying the planet but don't know how. We get a flashback of Cloud and Tifa when they were young and it positions Sephiroth as a war hero and someone people look up to "the great Sephiroth...", we find out about ancients and that Shinra is after it, we learn how materia is formed and exactly what Mako is and how it's poisoning the planet. An rpg should ease the player into the world.

FFXIII does no such thing. It uses terms like Fal'cie, L'Cie, Pulse, Cocoon, almost immediately. Players are confused. It takes hours to properly explain that Fal'cie are Gods despite being in the game nomenclature from fucking minute one. Tell me, is it ever confusing what an Aeon is in FFX or a GF in FFVIII or an Eidolon in FFIX? No. Because these games properly introduce story elements.

And that's just how the story is presented. I haven't gotten into the complete absence of character development aside from Hope and Sazh, the awkward pacing, the lack of quests, the extremely poor customization the bulk of the game, how it handholds you and makes up your party the entire experience until you reach Pulse, the lack of locales and npcs, the vapid exploration. I have mentioned the awful dungeon design.

FFXIII just isn't a good game. It's not even average. It's bad. FF has been divisive before but the fanbase previously had never came to such wide agreement that Final Fantasy had betrayed fans' trust. It is such a tremendous dip in quality.

I haven't bought a new Final Fantasy game since. Terrible game. Looking forward to XV breaking that games curse.

It is a bad game. It's certainly not a good RPG. A good RPG supplies more than a good battle system. This isn't an action game. RPGs do not subsist on just battles. The dungeon design was poor. The resource management was poor. The exploration was poor. The storytelling was poor. The characters, besides Sazh and Hope were poor. How it communicated its world - probably one of the most important aspects of an RPG aka making the player buy into your world - was poor. Its villains were poor. Its dialogue was extremely poor. It handheld your hand for 25 hours. You you couldn't make your party for that entire time because it was always chosen for you. Its pacing was terribly poor. A 30 hour tutorial. Poor, poor, poor. All of these aspects are the cornerstone of what makes a great RPG. If that's not a great RPG, and it's poor in all of these areas, what exactly is it?

Everything hints at a bad game, AAA production values or not. Because it's certainly not good or even average.

I think that, if you're going to make an RPG about nothing but battles and going through dungeons, you are a bad RPG if you do not step your dungeon design up. Other FF's that aren't XII? Okay. FFX gets a pass because it has more to offer than battles. But at its heart, this makes FFXIII a dungeon crawler. A dungeon crawler where all you do is hold up. No puzzles, no winding mazes, no Etrian Odyssey dungeon design, nothing on par with Lufia, nothing SMT-esque, no Wizardy dungeons that are about survival. If the dungeon design were up to par, I would have like it a lot. Instead it's a wasted opportunity. I cannot in good conscious say that a dungeon crawler with dungeons where all you do is hold up is a good game. It betrays everything that has made that genre what it is.

As for story and characters, XIII's story is pretty bad. I've seen worse, but honestly, not much more. The average Tales game has a better story. Character-wise, I'm not sure how Lightining or Vanille are good characters but I'd be interested in hearing why.

Thank God FFXV and XIV brought me back to Final Fantasy.

 

[Fraxin]

There's no cycle there's a downward spiral.

I never wanted to admit but I think FF has fallen off quite dramatically overall & may never recover.

Tabata & Toriyama(& by extension their close associates) have proven time & again that their products are often fatally flawed in areas that really matter.But that's the kind of leadership that FF is stuck with.

FF needs its own Druckmann/Straley/Hidetaka Miyazaki tier kind of leaders.Maybe Kitase & Nomura will finally turn the tide(?) I am not counting on it.

What they're trying to do now with FFVIIR is recapture a game from a very different time & its a nigh impossible task.A retreading of the past.

They did have one in Yasumi Matsuno, they really did. But not sure what happened that made him leave, guess he wasn't treated well.

 

[Ganon Dragmire]

Lightning is a better character than Vaan and friends in anything, yes.

Hey, you're right.
No wonder none of them appeared in WoFF and any scene with her in that game had better direction than most scenes in XV.

 

[BaasRed]

Do you guys think Square might go cross platform between console/pc and a portable for their next Final Fantasy game?

 

[Lynx_7]

It's your birthday? Allow me to gift you a psnow membership so you can come to the realization that xiii is awesome

See it's for shit like this that Zoro is more popular.

And I want a V remake before they even think about VI or VIII. You can't run away from the ATB and job system with this one, Square! Just you try it, damn it!!!

 

[duckroll]

Isn't it still like that? Diablo III and I believe the last Sim City were similar cases of not letting anything sink in.

Those games are 4-5 years old dude.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Diablo III is great.

 

[Kagari]

Hey, you're right.
No wonder none of them appeared in WoFF and any scene with her in that game had better direction than most scenes in XV.

Jun Akiyama was the event director for WoFF, which helped a lot. Dude was sorely missed in XV...

 

[duckroll]

Diablo III is great.

Two years after it was released maybe.

 

[Holundrian]

Those games are 4-5 years old dude.

Damn, it feels like yesterday.

Diablo III is great.

Now maybe it really wasn't when it launched beyond the moment to moment combat mostly everything was broken.

 

[HeelPower]

Jun Akiyama was the event director for WoFF, which helped a lot. Dude was sorely missed in XV...

lol XV's cutscenes are so trash.

That final scene with Luna phasing in & out ,and ''Nakama power'' moment was so badly put together.

Even the eye candy wasn't so good.

 

[Ganon Dragmire]

Jun Akiyama was the event director for WoFF, which helped a lot. Dude was sorely missed in XV...

Yeah, I know. sigh...

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Two years after it was released maybe.

Nah. I went through every difficulty and it was great. The loot was flawed but it got even better as they added more patches. Game was flawed at release, but turned into something amazing over time.

 

[raven777]

Jun Akiyama was the event director for WoFF, which helped a lot. Dude was sorely missed in XV...

Really hopes he works on FF7R.

 

[duckroll]

Jun Akiyama should quit Square Enix and go work for Monolithsoft or Falcom. They could use a man of his talents, and they actually make games with 3D cutscenes I want to play.

 

[Lynx_7]

Really hopes he works on FF7R.

He was going to work on Versus XIII so it's possible Nomura brought him to work on VII Remake.

 

[Altered Juice]

They really need to play FF2

lol oh come on!

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Jun Akiyama should quit Square Enix and go work for Monolithsoft or Falcom. They could use a man of his talents, and they actually make games with 3D cutscenes I want to play.

What are your thoughts on XBX?

 

[duckroll]

What are your thoughts on XBX?

Haven't played it. Zelda got delayed, no motivation to waste money on a WiiU without Zelda.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Haven't played it. Zelda got delayed, no motivation to waste money on a WiiU without Zelda.

I keep going back and forth on getting a Wii U but I might bet on just getting a Switch and hope they're not stupid and port Wii U games to the system. The problem is that I picture Wii U system prices getting insane over time because Nintendo products keep their value consistent and if they don't port the games Wii U has to offer that people want to play (just not on Wii U), I'll miss out.

Unless the emulator is good I guess.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I like Lightning and XIII is a decent, not great game. I think my impression of it improves over time. Didn't really care for it when it came out, but it grew on me in subsequent playthroughs. It's a mid-tier FF game and I think I enjoyed it more than VIII and X.

I haven't even played the sequels and honestly don't feel any need to though.

 

[duckroll]

I keep going back and forth on getting a Wii U but I might bet on just getting a Switch and hope they're not stupid and port Wii U games to the system. The problem is that I picture Wii U system prices getting insane over time because Nintendo products keep their value consistent and if they don't port the games Wii U has to offer that people want to play (just not on Wii U), I'll miss out.

Unless the emulator is good I guess.

I don't really give a fuck tbh. If I miss some WiiU games, tough. Not losing any sleep over it. Will get a Switch on the day Zelda is out. Will get whatever I want that is re-released/ported. The rest? Their loss.

 

[DangerMouse]

On some level I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of FFXV's sales response in Japan can possibly be linked to the move to more action gameplay. Though I do think the love of FF7 will render that less of an obstacle for that particular game, plus the addition of being able to control/switch between all party members as was the original goal of Versus.

The PS4 is actually doing pretty damn well in Japan right now. With the release of the slim and the pro, sales have really picked up like never before. The PS4 is currently outperforming the PS3 in the same time period, but it remains to be seen if it will last. Where the PS4 is falling behind is in actual software sales. More people are buying the PS4 now, they just aren't necessarily also buying the new games like FFXV and Yakuza 6 though.

Hmmm. If so it's good we've finally reached the point where what they definitely need are more games and ones that might catch their eye by pushing the system a bit as occurred somewhat continuously in the back half of the PS3 generation post FFXIII (regardless of its response) after that horrendous start that at least gave them steadier output to buy, hopefully starting with this game which sold them some systems and upcoming DQXI even though it'll also have a 3DS version, maybe some of them will buy both (one can hope...).

Hopefully they'll actually buy DQXI rewarding Horii at least a bit for having the desire to bring the game back to the big screen in a big way.

It'd be cool if something like Trails of Cold Steel III might give them another little nudge into buying some more software, now that it's being made with PS4 in mind (and will only be available there), and the anime character models (for the waifus! sales) and environments are getting a sizable bump while also still remaining an old-school turn-based classic JRPG in a series they like and with characters they are already invested in. Not that it will do magically well or anything since they aren't huge sellers but maybe it'll catch some extra eyes of those who already bought in for a little slow sustainable growth even if consoles will never be big there again.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I don't really give a fuck tbh. If I miss some WiiU games, tough. Not losing any sleep over it. Will get a Switch on the day Zelda is out. Will get whatever I want that is re-released/ported. The rest? Their loss.

I feel similar but really wanna try NSMBU, Wooly World, and XBX.

 

[LordKasual]

There's no cycle there's a downward spiral.

I never wanted to admit but I think FF has fallen off quite dramatically overall & may never recover.

Tabata & Toriyama(& by extension their close associates) have proven time & again that their products are often fatally flawed in areas that really matter.But that's the kind of leadership that FF is stuck with.

You're the minority in this opinion. I really hope you realize that, homie.

 

[HeelPower]

You're the minority in this opinion. I really hope you realize that, homie.

Not really.

Even if you are a big fan of FFXV, you need to realize that its not 1 tenth of what the series is supposed to be.

I am a fan of XIII ,but I fully realize that its heavily flawed & not representative of FF's prime.

,
Homie

 

[Mushroomer25]

That score isn't a validation of XIII's "quality." It's a dent and a hit on game reviewer's credibility.

To me, it's the sign of a disconnect. Are most game critics (especially in the West) familiar enough with JRPGs to tear them down when they need to be torn down? Because it seems like a lot of reviewers are willing to handwave over huge sins of a game's storytelling, out of some assumption that such flaws are part of the appeal. FFXV should've been roasted for leaving so much of its character work on the cutting room floor, or pressed into movies & anime. Instead, it seemed like a lot of critics focused elsewhere, because they didn't feel comfortable being voices of criticism towards a genre that they don't have real familiarity with.

You'll see this frequently with film criticism, often with movies that aim for a very specific cultural demographic. Most film critics (generally college educated whites) will feel uncomfortable writing a hypercritical review of a Tyler Perry melodrama, because it is blatantly made for an audience of a wholly separate cultural heritage. The line between subjective and objective flaws becomes blurry.

 

[Darkstorne]

You're the minority in this opinion. I really hope you realize that, homie.

Not even remotely. Lower review scores compared to previous series entries combined with lower sales means it's the overwhelmingly popular opinion. It's okay to accept that the game you love has major flaws. Just got to hope Square starts taking things seriously if you want this franchise to continue.