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[Mr. Wonderful]

The left/progressives need to stop vilifying their own. This is the same shit that was happening during the election cycle.

Victim culture in general is disgusting. It's not them against us. It's just us. We're people. Let's raise each other up, listen to each other, and meet in the middle.

But no. There has to be a bad guy. Somebody needs to be vilified. Communication, empathy, and respect is only for the in-group, so you'd better fall in line.

 

[FZZ]

Victim culture in general is disgusting. It's not them against us. It's just us. We're people. Let's raise each other up, listen to each other, and meet in the middle.

But no. There has to be a bad guy. Somebody needs to be vilified. Communication, empathy, and respect is only for the in-group, so you'd better fall in line.

The election was literally won by a party that specializes in vilifying, hating, and resenting millions of different people. Also the same party saying there was a "War on Christmas."

i.e victim culture

Get the fuck out of here with this hippy dippy we are one shit.

 

[Infinite]

The point is that most people aren't familiar with this kind of discussion. What's more, elections are won and lost at the margins. Making general statements generally increases resentment and isn't necessary. Republicans don't care if you are down with conservative dogma. They just want you to vote red or not at all. Strange coincidence that they control every branch of government.

You're blaming academic discourse around structural racism for why white people vote republican?

 

[Zoc]

Alright, I think I may have been callous with my wording so I'm gonna try this again. I'm not saying that white people are solely responsible for the end of slavery or for civil rights. That is stupid and obviously untrue. My observation was that A. as you say Whites held a monopoly on power during these times and B. It was not only blacks or other people of color that fought or made sacrifices for them. Whites are responsible for these troubles, but they have also been important allies and too often I see the latter's role diminished because of the former. To tie back to the OP tweet, suggesting that white women shouldn't be at these marches because 53% voted for Trump erases or diminishes the contributions of the 47% that did not. My comment on things being done already was meant to emphasize that things would have moved more quickly (or, more accurately, likely not happened at all) if white people were not in power.

Sorry if I upset anyone, I legitimately didn't mean to offend, and I apologize if I did anyway. This is why I don't usually post in these threads, it can be difficult to word your thoughts on incendiary subjects like this in a way that is kosher to everyone.

This isn't my conversation, but I want to butt in here and point out that dividing people into groups based on color is hurting your understanding of history. "Black people fought to end slavery, helped by a few whites" may be true in its way, but that's not how people then thought of it then, and it's still a weird way of looking at it now. More accurate would be "People against slavery fought people for slavery". Yes, "people for slavery" were almost 100% white, but "people against slavery" were more than 0% white. Thus, categorizing people as white/black before categorizing them as for/against slavery is not really useful.

 

[leroidys]

Are we seriously going off these Exit Polls?



Wooooooooooooow. We are arguing over numbers that aren't likely even accurate.

This almost seems thread worthy to me TBH. There's been so much arguing over these numbers since the election with absolutely no context. People need to read that.

But also: source?

 

[WaffleTaco]

Just reposting from last page:

This thread is pretty pathetic, as a woman who happens to be white, I have never seen so many sexist comments in my life. I voted for Hillary, I did my part. I tried to convince other women, and some of it worked, some of it did not. The way we lose is if we fight amongst each other. Stronger Together was Hillary's campaign slogan. We are not being together and unified, we are becoming disenfranchised finger pointers and that won't help anyone.

The election was literally won by a party that specializes in vilifying, hating, and resenting millions of different people. Also the same party saying there was a "War on Christmas."

i.e victim culture

Get the fuck out of here with this hippy dippy we are one shit.

Also hippy dippy shit? Lol you are so clueless.

 

[Deepwater]

Thank you for the very detailed explanation. I definitely understand the feeling.
Now (and I'm not making a statement, but rather looking for agreement or disagreement with what I'm trying to understand here), in this very case with the Women's march, what did the people organizing this expect from the white women who attended? As an outsider (not just from the black women group, but from the US as a whole), I understood this to be a rally to fight for women's rights, rather than something much more nuanced as the case seemed to be. What about all the rallies done in other countries?

The way I understood many white people helping (and again, this is an outsider's view), wasn't so much that you need the support of the people from the oppressive class, but rather from the majority in the country. That's pretty much needed (by simple numbers, I mean) in order to get some change on a national level, right? I understand and agree that for an issue regarding black women (or black people in general), you should be the people in charge of the movement though.
I couldn't think of a nicer way to word the phrase above so I hope it didn't sound too weird. I completely agree with the stuff quoted above so I'm not trying to propose a different view or something like that.

In order to analyze what's happening with a level accuracy, you have to understand the history of Black women and the feminism movement.

You have to understand that historically, black women have been excluded from white feminist spaces. You have to understand that many white suffragists abhorred the idea of fighting for the rights of black women. You have to understand that the Woman's March originally tried to co-opt the Million Woman March name, which was a similar march organized by black women back in the late 90s. You have to understand that many black women and other women of color feel slighted that it took the election of donald trump to start organizing when they have been doing it for decades. You have to understand that almost immediately after the march, it was characterized as peaceful, where many of those same black women involved faced police violence protesting for BLM.

You have to understand that while, black women and white women may both be women, black women are routinely more marginalized and face many more issues than white women do. Black women have been putting in the work on this shit long before everyone decided Trump was the straw that broke the camels back. And I found that many black women took the high road and accepted that this was going to be the first time many women came out to organize and that was okay. But also acknowledging that they need to understand that they aren't progenitors of this shit, and that they are late to the party.

 

[Sunster]

Victim culture in general is disgusting. It's not them against us. It's just us. We're people. Let's raise each other up, listen to each other, and meet in the middle.

But no. There has to be a bad guy. Somebody needs to be vilified. Communication, empathy, and respect is only for the in-group, so you'd better fall in line.

like the people who were offended by that tweet and photo?

 

[TestOfTide]

Does the same discrepancy among Latinx/Black women with college degrees vs. no degrees exist?

Sure, you (the proverbial white feminist) did not vote for Trump, but what about your aunt, your cousin, your grandmother? If they're not asking themselves that question, they need to start soon. All I'm saying.

That's why I SPECIFICALLY stated white college educated women and white non-college educated women.

The issue isn't simply white people voting for Trump. The issue is that uneducated white people voted for Trump by DRASTIC margins.

 

[akira28]

I'm a white woman who voted for Clinton, surrounded by white women who voted for Trump. The way conversations were going before election day, I was convinced these women would vote against their party to prevent a misogynist from getting in. You could say I was shocked and disappointed.

I have a responsibility to talk to these women, not only in my own self-interest, but for the minorities who will suffer from their dumb decision.

In other words, I see that sign in the OP as being directed at those like me, and I'm okay with that.

That being said, comments like the Tweet appear to be attacking the "47%" directly, as if they themselves are responsible for everyone in their demographic, which isn't very helpful.

I'm with you on that. The picture says so much, and the tweet says so little, and it makes a big difference. People see them together and I've seen a lot of posts saying they are both bad, and I disagree. The OP's timbre definitely slanted his framing in a certain way that looks like it hurt the discussion though. But we don't all have to follow that line or stick to that script.

I see the picture reminding us to not be too self-congratulatory over our show of defiance in the light of the work we have yet to do or even demonstrate that we are capable of doing. Especially when it comes to turning majorities and turn out. People really wanted to highlight the small minority of a minority that didn't come out to vote, instead of the large number of people who did vote and did so in a way that condemns a whole heck of a lot of us. We have to realize how close to us our opponents are, and what we have to do to win with them or win without them. Many of us can't go back to our towns and live under the shield of privilege in this crazy and frightening new world. Lots of us are now directly under threat from things that others only fear as hypotheticals they now have to get together to fight against.

The sliding scale that is America is in that picture. The poor white woman who is disenfranchised and on the chopping block in Trump's America probably would not have been able to realistically take off from work Saturday to make the trip to Washington DC to protest. Mostly because she needs the hours, whether she voted for Hillary, Trump, or didn't vote at all. The class dynamic is in that picture, the intersectional feminism dynamic is in that picture where some people are in more danger than others, race and economics considered as factors. But the moment it looks like the minority hypocrites are picking on white women, its time (for white men) to circle the wagons and fight over the naming of white fragility? We have young Zoc up here trying to make this the final countdown. And the one white woman I've seen to post in this thread already gets it.... Come on.

StoOgE (and others):
Instead of telling us how hard it is to deal with your racist parents in one voice and with the other tell us that we all have an equal responsibility to use honey tones to win them over in the name of just cooperation and righteous victory, some are almost out of honey and are left with the sour truth. The bottom line is that white allies don't just have Trump to fight against. They have to fight against themselves, under the shield of privilege, against their (white) peers(irony mark that I need to specify white), with less politeness and more directness than ever before. And they do this while many of us stand out in the cold, or sit in the fire, and try to fight against it getting warmer.

 

[FZZ]

Just reposting from last page:

This thread is pretty pathetic, as a woman who happens to be white, I have never seen so many sexist comments in my life. I voted for Hillary, I did my part. I tried to convince other women, and some of it worked, some of it did not. The way we lose is if we fight amongst each other. Stronger Together was Hillary's campaign slogan. We are not being together and unified, we are becoming disenfranchised finger pointers and that won't help anyone.


Also hippy dippy shit? Lol you are so clueless.

I said sexist comments now? Here are my posts one is from the last page as well

Fam step back and think for a second, reread your post.

"It is how it is"

This is why we're furious, this is why we're mad as fuck. It is true that Civil Rights legislation has been passed by nearly all whites, and who did those whites tend to be? Do they tend to be the Abraham Lincolns, the JFKs, the LBJs? Or are they the Trumps and the Reagans?

The Democratic Party has been THE party for minorities for the past few decades. Seeing white people time and time again vote in the favor of the "economy" and terrorism over women's rights, blacks rights, LGBTQ+'s rights, FUCKING HUMAN RIGHTS. It's tiring as fuck and people are mad.

White people are the "gatekeepers" and have no desire to change anything, white people decided this election. As much as myself and so many other minorities tried, Trump won.

I'm tired of appeasing, if you're feelings get hurt that's on you. I'm more fucking worried about the safety of my family and I will damn near fight anyone that wants to get in the way of their safety and well being. I will call out any and all bullshit. I will blame anyone and call out a majority (because that's what 53% is a majority) for being self centered, close minded, and hateful for disregarding the rights of millions of people for their own wants and desires.

The damage has been done, we're the ones dealing with it. Not the whites who voted Trump.

If we could do it ourselves it would damn well be done by now, but my ass isn't going to fucking pull an arm and a leg for someone that maybe wants to support my rights as an individual. Those who have my back, I have theirs. I know there are white people and voters that do and those are the ones who are with me, and I'm with them. Everyone else can go fuck off and if you're feelings are hurt I'm not going to sugar coat shit.

Also breh slavery alive and well, prison industrial complex is a bitch.

Minoritites came out and voted for Clinton

White people voted Trump

Hell yes imma be mad about it, and if it divides "us" further then so be it. I have zero tolerance for voting for a demagogue and bigoted piece of living shit, and if you're salty we're calling it out then I question where your interests and values lie in the first place.

Shit is so annoying, and tbh I bet a majority of the 47% of women are mad about the other 53% too and aren't as nearly as offended as some of you are in this thread.

And before you call people clueless think about why you're mad and offended about my posts.

 

[Deepwater]

You just claimed you weren't generalizing though.

I never claimed I wasn't generalizing, I'm speaking in very macro terms. If you're looking for a #NotAll____ response from me, you're not getting it.

I said what I said.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

This isn't my conversation, but I want to butt in here and point out that dividing people into groups based on color is hurting your understanding of history. "Black people fought to end slavery, helped by a few whites" may be true in its way, but that's not how people then thought of it then, and it's still a weird way of looking at it now. More accurate would be "People against slavery fought people for slavery". Yes, "people for slavery" were almost 100% white, but "people against slavery" were more than 0% white. Thus, categorizing people as white/black before categorizing them as for/against slavery is not really useful.

I agree completely but it's not really in the spirit of what the thread was about. My fault I guess for trying to make it relevant.

 

[King Tubby]

You're blaming academic discourse around structural racism for why white people vote republican?

I have no idea how you can possibly gather that from my post or the reply chain. All I'm saying is that misunderstandings, tiny things you would consider insignificant or petty can absolutely make the difference in an election that came down to ~80,000 votes.

 

[WaffleTaco]

I said sexist comments now? Here are my posts one is from the last page as well





And before you call people clueless think about why you're mad and offended about my posts.

I wasn't calling you out specifically for sexism. Just the thread. I didn't like your hippy comment. I'm going to edit my post.

 

[leroidys]

In order to analyze what's happening with a level accuracy, you have to understand the history of Black women and the feminism movement.

You have to understand that historically, black women have been excluded from white feminist spaces. You have to understand that many white suffragists abhorred the idea of fighting for the rights of black women. You have to understand that the Woman's March originally tried to co-opt the Million Woman March name, which was a similar march organized by black women back in the late 90s. You have to understand that many black women and other women of color feel slighted that it took the election of donald trump to start organizing when they have been doing it for decades. You have to understand that almost immediately after the march, it was characterized as peaceful, where many of those same black women involved faced police violence protesting for BLM.

You have to understand that while, black women and white women may both be women, black women are routinely more marginalized and face many more issues than white women do. Black women have been putting in the work on this shit long before everyone decided Trump was the straw that broke the camels back. And I found that many black women took the high road and accepted that this was going to be the first time many women came out to organize and that was okay. But also acknowledging that they need to understand that they aren't progenitors of this shit, and that they are late to the party.

Who are you talking to, though? Educating people about these things is good, but how is it helpful to generalize all white women, and pinning the failings of feminism in the past on them? It's just going to hurt the people that actually showed up, and further alienate the women swing voters who went for Trump.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything you posted, I just think that more care should be taken so that this kind of thing is talked about in a way that helps the movement rather than hurt it. From a purely practical standpoint as opposed to a moral one.

 

[Gotchaye]

But it's not just a small change? Like, going from 43%, which is what Hillary got, to 51% is 1 in 12, not 1 in 50 or 1 in 100. For a demo that makes up 37% of the electorate.

My point is, getting to majority doesn't mean white feminism has no issues to work through, but it sure as hell would've changed the landscape of our political discourse.

But since you're not considering a world where Clinton wins white women but loses the election, all you're saying is that if Clinton had won then we wouldn't be talking about this, which, duh. Of course we'd be talking about this differently if Clinton had won.

And you're right, I was throwing out numbers as if Clinton had gotten everyone who didn't vote for Trump, when actually there's a gap. I still think it's pretty easy to imagine a world where Clinton won white women but lost the election through some combination of polling error and slightly different facts. But we're still only talking about the opinions of around 1 in 10 white women as supposedly making a huge difference in how it's reasonable to think and talk about politics and white women. That just doesn't seem plausible.

 

[FZZ]

I wasn't calling you out specifically for sexism. Just the thread. I didn't like your hippy comment. I'm going to edit my post.

Standing together as one to be stronger is clear

But I only want to stand with those who want to stand with me

Not those who are iffy about it and can be swayed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's how I feel. Appeasing isn't going to work anymore imo

 

[Deepwater]

I have no idea how you can possibly gather that from my post or the reply chain. All I'm saying is that misunderstandings, tiny things you would consider insignificant or petty can absolutely make the difference in an election that came down to ~80,000 votes.

Also voter suppression, lots and lots of voter suppression.

But, hey.

 

[Infinite]

I have no idea how you can possibly gather that from my post or the reply chain. All I'm saying is that misunderstandings, tiny things you would consider insignificant or petty can absolutely make the difference in an election that came down to ~80,000 votes.

I don't buy that though and if it what's being said in that reply chain is enough to make people take their ball home and vote republican then I believe that is their personal failing and no one else's. There were bigger problems we can point at to why this election went the way it did before I can even see you on this issue.

 

[Deepwater]

Who are you talking to, though? Educating people about these things is good, but how is it helpful to generalize all white women, and pinning the failings of feminism in the past on them? It's just going to hurt the people that actually showed up, and further alienate the women swing voters who went for Trump.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything you posted, I just think that more care should be taken so that this kind of thing is talked about in a way that helps the movement rather than hurt it. From a purely practical standpoint as opposed to a moral one.

Please see my earlier post about pragmatic allyship http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228965389&postcount=1014

 

[Zoc]

I agree completely but it's not really in the spirit of what the thread was about. My fault I guess for trying to make it relevant.

No, I think it's completely relevant. People are getting hung up on the fact that 53% of white women voted for trump, when the really important numbers are that 100% of trump voters voted for him, and 0% didn't.

The real task here is to look at that 100% and try to find ways to convince them that the 0% are A) not their enemies and B) their true allies.

 

[Mik2121]

In order to analyze what's happening with a level accuracy, you have to understand the history of Black women and the feminism movement.

You have to understand that historically, black women have been excluded from white feminist spaces. You have to understand that many white suffragists abhorred the idea of fighting for the rights of black women. You have to understand that the Woman's March originally tried to co-opt the Million Woman March name, which was a similar march organized by black women back in the late 90s. You have to understand that many black women and other women of color feel slighted that it took the election of donald trump to start organizing when they have been doing it for decades. You have to understand that almost immediately after the march, it was characterized as peaceful, where many of those same black women involved faced police violence protesting for BLM.

You have to understand that while, black women and white women may both be women, black women are routinely more marginalized and face many more issues than white women do. Black women have been putting in the work on this shit long before everyone decided Trump was the straw that broke the camels back. And I found that many black women took the high road and accepted that this was going to be the first time many women came out to organize and that was okay. But also acknowledging that they need to understand that they aren't progenitors of this shit, and that they are late to the party.

I see, there's some stuff there I wasn't aware of. However, I don't really agree about organizing this only after the election, since marches for women have been a thing for much longer and people from other ethnics have participated before? Or am I wrong here? Again, I'm just saying that from the outside this sounded more like a women's march, not a specific subset of that sex's march. That could be the reason why many white women also attended?

I still would like to know your answer to what I asked:

what did the people organizing this expect from the white women who attended? What about all the rallies done in other countries?

And also regarding the other topic of a majority helping a minority with their rights (or that's how I want to see it, as I'm not trying to be too cynic about this stuff). What's the general opinion in the US about this?

 

[leroidys]

Please see my earlier post about pragmatic allyship http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228965389&postcount=1014

I'm not talking about 'allies', I'm talking about the people criticizing them with generalized statements like in the OP. Good for you that you have thick skin. Most people don't, unfortunately. That's just reality.

 

[gregor7777]

If you got hurt even though you aren't the type of person I'm talking about, there is already a problem

Jeeeeesus, enough of this bullshit right here. You can't say whatever the fuck you want then take some fucking high ground when someone calls you on your bullshit.

"White fragility!"

 

[akira28]

tbc, no the picture doesn't imply that those women are false flag Hillary supporters who secretly support Trump. That's completely silly and missing points.

The women are lenses for different foci. Fore and back.

 

[Infinite]

I'm not talking about 'allies', I'm talking about the people criticizing them with generalized statements like in the OP. Good for you that you have thick skin. Most people don't, unfortunately. That's just reality.

I know you're not talking to me but I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[LionPride]

Standing together as one to be stronger is clear

But I only want to stand with those who want to stand with me

Not those who are iffy about it and can be swayed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's how I feel. Appeasing isn't going to work anymore imo

RETWEET RETWEET REMOTHERFUCKINGTWEET

Jeeeeesus, enough of this bullshit right here. You can't say whatever the fuck you want then take some fucking high ground when someone calls you on your bullshit.

"White fragility!"

You got something you actually wanna say as a rebuttal or...

 

[WaffleTaco]

Standing together as one to be stronger is clear

But I only want to stand with those who want to stand with me

Not those who are iffy about it and can be swayed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's how I feel. Appeasing isn't going to work anymore imo

Okay I think we are in agreement then. Are you specifically talking about the women that voted for Trump or appeasing who?

 

[D i Z]

That is all totally fine, and I don't disagree with what you are saying at all.

But, being black in America is not the only group of people who have legitimate grievances about society.

Read all of that. Cropped for space.

But being Black in America is a damned good place to start for every single one of these grievances, no? Why would anyone dismiss that kind of absolute immersion? Who goes to war and ignores the intel from the front line? It's like people are tripping over themselves to fail at their first time up on the mound.

 

[gregor7777]

You got something you actually wanna say as a rebuttal or...

Nope. What I said was clear and you understood my meaning precisely.

 

[WedgeX]

Standing together as one to be stronger is clear

But I only want to stand with those who want to stand with me

Not those who are iffy about it and can be swayed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's how I feel. Appeasing isn't going to work anymore imo

I think this is actually the attitude that Democrats as a whole need to foster. All the elements under the big tent that comprise the Democratic Party need to stand together. And not just for each of our own pet issues but for each groups major issues within the tent.

 

[UltimaPooh]

I hate that fucking sign. Yes we know that white women voted Trump, but the ones that opposed that asshole have every right that we do to be upset with the situation and to protest his orange ass right along side us. Shit feels super fucking lame, like someones working overtime to get all the people that agree with each other to squabble amongst themselves.

Pretty much. We get it us white folks are lame and there's still a good portion of us who are diet racist and aren't woke... but this is just a huge generalization on a particular voting issue.

It's tantamount to accusing black people for Prop 8 passing in California.

 

[King Tubby]

I don't buy that though and if it what's being said in that reply chain is enough to make people take their ball home and vote republican then I believe that is their personal failing and no one else's. There were bigger problems we can point at to why this election went the way it did before I can even see you on this issue.

I don't give a fuck if that's their personal falling, they vote. I want them to vote with me, I don't care how wishy washy they are about it. I want to win. I want the other side to lose. That doesn't mean appeasement, but it also doesn't mean being antagonistic for no reason. If you need to make white folks upset in service of some tangible goal, go ahead. If you're just doing it to let off steam, no thanks.

 

[LionPride]

Nope. What I said was clear and you understood my meaning precisely.

I'm asking you a question cuz I didn't smartass

 

[celljean89]

Standing together as one to be stronger is clear

But I only want to stand with those who want to stand with me

Not those who are iffy about it and can be swayed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's how I feel. Appeasing isn't going to work anymore imo

Agreed. Stand with me, I'll stand with you.

 

[Deepwater]

I see, there's some stuff there I wasn't aware of. However, I don't really agree about organizing this only after the election, since marches for women have been a thing for much longer and people from other ethnics have participated before? Or am I wrong here? Again, I'm just saying that from the outside this sounded more like a women's march, not a specific subset of that sex's march. That could be the reason why many white women also attended?

I still would like to know your answer to what I asked:



And also regarding the other topic of a majority helping a minority with their rights (or that's how I want to see it, as I'm not trying to be too cynic about this stuff). What's the general opinion in the US about this?

Women of Color were brought in to make the march much more inclusive than what was originally envisioned by it's white formulator. Which why a lot of women of color even showed up, but still many stayed home because of those original issues.

Again, you can see the general opinion in the US based off this thread. It's fairly radical thinking to posit that those oppressed shouldn't be begging and pleading for the benevolence of their oppressors. But, at the end of the day it makes sense. We wouldn't have racism or sexism if the majority of white people or men were well meaning and good people.

Support from the majority is almost always conditional. Almost always. Whether it's sexism, racism, whatever. The "good" portion of the majority doesn't want to be inconvenienced when lending its support, so they will take it back as soon as they are.

 

[Deepwater]

I'm not talking about 'allies', I'm talking about the people criticizing them with generalized statements like in the OP. Good for you that you have thick skin. Most people don't, unfortunately. That's just reality.

If white women can't buckle down and accept criticism from those they have privilege over, then they will not have the support of black women. And that's it. Whether or not that's good or bad for either group is immaterial.

apologies for the double post

 

[gregor7777]

I'm asking you a question cuz I didn't smartass

I can't dumb it down much more sorry. Try reading it again. It's quite succinct. Smartass.

 

[Beerman462]

Pretty shitty. 47% didn't vote for Trump. You want them to stay home?

 

[Metrotab]

it's so hard, I didn't get the instant results I'm used to being able to get due to my white privilege

This is a very revealing sentiment you express. Do you honestly think white people are used to getting everything they want on an instant?

 

[Mik2121]

Women of Color were brought in to make the march much more inclusive than what was originally envisioned by it's white formulator. Which why a lot of women of color even showed up, but still many stayed home because of those original issues.

Again, you can see the general opinion in the US based off this thread. It's fairly radical thinking to posit that those oppressed shouldn't be begging and pleading for the benevolence of their oppressors. But, at the end of the day it makes sense. We wouldn't have racism or sexism if the majority of white people or men were well meaning and good people.

Support from the majority is almost always conditional. Almost always. Whether it's sexism, racism, whatever. The "good" portion of the majority doesn't want to be inconvenienced when lending its support, so they will take it back as soon as they are.

While I don't think I can agree with the bold, I feel I'm not in a position to really discuss this. Thanks for your input though, it's always good to learn about different points of view.

 

[Zornack]

If white women can't buckle down and accept criticism from those they have privilege over, then they will not have the support of black women. And that's it. Whether or not that's good or bad for either group is immaterial.

apologies for the double post

Criticism shouldn't be leveled at as large a group as (insert race) (insert gender).

And who are you to speak for all black women?

 

[Infinite]

I don't give a fuck if that's their personal falling, they vote. I want them to vote with me, I don't care how wishy washy they are about it. I want to win. I want the other side to lose. That doesn't mean appeasement, but it also doesn't mean being antagonistic for no reason. If you need to make white folks upset in service of some tangible goal, go ahead. If you're just doing it to let off steam, no thanks.

I'm not saying I'm going around being antagonistic to people but I fail to see that pic and tweet are making white people upset enough to vote against their own interests. I fail to see how academic discourse around structural racism is making white people vote against their own interests. I fail to see how terms like white privilege are making white people vote against their own interests. If that's truly the issue then this is much deeper than people on the internet reminding them that they're white and nothing you and I can fix by altering our language

 

[gregor7777]

Criticism shouldn't be leveled at as large a group (insert race), (insert gender).

And who are you to speak for all black women?

It can if we're talking about whites. We're all pissed off minorities and white people just need to stop being fragile and take our abuse.

 

[LionPride]

I'm not saying I'm going around being antagonistic to people but I fail to see that pic and tweet are making white people upset enough to vote against their own interests. I fail to see how academic discourse around structural racism is making white people vote against their own interests. I fail to see how terms like white privilege are making white people vote against their own interests.

Because...I got nothing

 

[Deepwater]

Criticism shouldn't be leveled at as large a group as (insert race) (insert gender).

And who are you to speak for all black women?

I'm speaking from what history has shown us. The divide between black and white feminism isn't new, nor is it an intangible phenomenon

In regards to your first point, do you disagree that white privilege exists?

 

[perfectchaos007]

White people shouldn't have even shown up to protest. This isn't their battle to fight /s

 

[LionPride]

I can't dumb it down much more sorry. Try reading it again. It's quite succinct. Smartass.

Useless talking to you, got it breh

 

[akira28]

White people shouldn't have even shown up to protest. This isn't their battle to fight /s

said no one, but continue