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[Bitch Pudding]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

 

[Hermii]

Really? I seem to recall some drama about it not being as powerful as expected, maybe I'm mistaken.

People expected 16nm ff pascal, what we got was 20nm maxwell. It's still technically the latest mobile tegra because there haven't been a new one in a few years.

 

[c0de]

How did this even get a thread and MS dropping VR from the Scorpio feature list on the homepage goes unnoticed or ignored?

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/project-scorpio

It's not ignored, people just don't care about vr ;-)

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

How did this even get a thread and MS dropping VR from the Scorpio feature list on the homepage goes unnoticed or ignored?

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/project-scorpio

I wasn't aware the mods had prevented you from creating a thread about the Scorpio feature list. This is an outrage

Do we have a context on that quote ?
Because if it's in term of specs, then I guess we can say PS4 is a whole new generation compared to XB1, considering it's the same power gap between XB1/PS4 and Pro/Scorpio.

Although, if it's in term of forward compatibility, then it'd be true. The way PS4 Pro handles upgrades and older titles is definitely half assed.

Not really. You need to look at the leap from PS4 > Pro and compare that to Xbone > Scorpio.

 

[gofreak]

In the end, it's still his own opinion but technically, he is right.
The pro is a better ps4 with a performance increase that is lower than bone to Scorpio. Yes, the bone is lower but Scorpio is also higher than the pro so in terms of increase it's way more of an upgrade.
Additionally, Scorpio is architectural different to the bone, way more than the pro is to the ps4.

A bigger upgrade doesn't a new generation make. A bigger upgrade can be just another point on the revision spectrum.

And on that end it's not a big enough upgrade to compare to a typical inter-generational hardware upgrade, especially with regards to memory.

Now maybe Microsoft is moving away from distinct software generations altogether. In which case one might define a new generation as being any new console revision.

But in the common existing parlance, defined by software compatibility, Scorpio isn't introducing a new generation - outside of the new 'sub-platform' of VR games, at least. We'll have to see if and how MS defines generations going forward, if they're going to have any hard software compatibility 'breaks' anymore.

 

[Markitron]

It's not using the newest tegra, that is used in the automobile self driving units. Just the latest mobile tegra. That is probably, what you've read

People expected 16nm ff pascal, what we got was 20nm maxwell. It's still technically the latest mobile tegra because there haven't been a new one in a few years.

I see, thanks.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I wasn't aware the mods had prevented you from creating a thread about the Scorpio feature list. This is an outrage

I just woke up, cut me some slack, Jack

 

[c0de]

Ayy lmao this "dev"

Well, he is responsible for an amazing game called “Ori“. What did you contribute to the gaming world to quote him “dev“?

 

[TrutaS]

If true, it strikes me as very dumb. Weak exclusive lineup + perception of shorter, less reliable console cycles would put it in an even worse position.

 

[_Rob_]

Surely that kind of comment aimed at Sony is bad for business? Sure they're Microsoft exclusive at present, but why paint yourself into a corner?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I just woke up, cut me some slack, Jack

I'll do it for you, it's an odd change for sure.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Full blown next gen console. With no exclusive games. Nice one.

 

[Hermii]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

Specs is more than flops. Scorpio may be less bottlenecked, have faster CPU, more faster memory, and architectural improvements over pro.

 

[hanspampel]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

Yes that is not how any of this works or what Thomas meant.

It's more like this:

Scorpio over XB1
GPU = 360% increase
RAM = 50% increase
Bandwith = 370% increase (- whatever ESRAM did)
CPU = we don't know shit about it yet

Ps4 Pro over Ps4
GPU = 130% increase
RAM = 6.5% more usable ram for games
Bandwith = 24% increase
CPU = 30% increase

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Surely that kind of comment aimed at Sony is bad for business? Sure they're Microsoft exclusive at present, but why paint yourself into a corner?

I don't think Sony would give a toss what Thomas said about them if they ever get a chance to get a game the quality of Ori on Playstation

 

[somecrazymember]

I still dont get it.

Xbo games will work on Scorpio. That we knew.

But will Scorpio have exclusive games..?

Thats the real question

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Specs is more than flops. Scorpio may be less bottlenecked, have faster CPU, more faster memory, and architectural improvements over pro.

Read the DF article. It's more bottlenecked in some ways as apparently devs have to consider the ancient and limiting ESRAM memory in the OG XB1.

PS4 Pro has no memory bottlenecks as the PS4's design was sensible from the start.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

PC doesn't really count, but even if it did you aren't playing a 2016 game on a 90s pc.

I am not talking about playing a 2016 game on a 90s pc. I am talking about playing a 90s game on my 2016 pc. Hardware is not defined by what software it can run. It's that simple. And yes, PC counts in the way I talked about it.

 

[mrklaw]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

Xbox one was a next-gen console, and PS4 was a next-next gen console by those criteria

 

[Hermii]

Read the DF article. It's more bottlenecked in some ways as apparently devs have to consider the ancient and limiting ESRAM memory in the OG XB1.

PS4 Pro has no memory bottlenecks as the PS4's design was sensible from the start.

What the hell does OG Xbox one have to do with Scorpio?

 

[Mandoric]

Five years was the average length of a console generation for decades.

NES - 1985
SNES - 1991
N64 - 1996
GCN - 2001
Wii - 2006

PlayStation - 1995
PS2 - 2000
PS3 - 2006

The gap between Xbox and Xbox 360 was four years.

Isn't it more relevant to look at global launch years if we're talking the pace of technical progress, or the US mass market's path if we're talking its appetite for buying new hardware? If it's the first the early Famicom and PS releases drive up the average wait for each company closer to sixish, and if it's the second I don't think we can draw any conclusion about a market that leapt from NES (1986 nationwide) to Genesis (1989) but also waited from X360 (2005) to PS4 (2013).

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Yes that is not how any of this works or what Thomas meant.

It's more like this:

Scorpio over XB1
GPU = 360% increase
RAM = 50% increase
Bandwith = 370% increase (- whatever ESRAM did)
CPU = we don't know shit about it yet

Ps4 Pro over Ps4
GPU = 130% increase
RAM = 6.5% more usable ram for games
Bandwith = 24% increase
CPU = 30% increase

Yeah that's nice an all but no new generation is ever started without exclusives.

And actually, what your numbers show is how ridiculously hamstrung Scorpio games will be as they have to run on the slow XB1.

 

[cooldawn]

This is Sean Spicer moonlighting as a developer, right? It's canny resemblance to the type of reaction to Trump's Crowdgate scandal at the inauguration - 'it was this big' but it wasn't - is frightening.

 

[hanspampel]

Yeah that's nice an all but no new generation is ever started without exclusives.

Welcome to the new world, where new generations start without exclusive games

And this post just showed why a developer could think of ps4 pro a a "half ass baked" mid gen refresh and Scorpio as a new gen when it comes to specs.

The jump is just 3 times as big.
I don't get why people don't get that and try to misunderstand Thomas here

 

[leeh]

How did this even get a thread and MS dropping VR from the Scorpio feature list on the homepage goes unnoticed or ignored?

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/project-scorpio

Not ready for launch I'm presuming?

 

[Gurish]

Wait so Scorpio will have exclusive games that cannot run on the XB1? it goes againt what MS and DF said, if not and all Scorpio games will indeed run on the XB1 than it's NOT a new gen... I'm confused can anyone clarify???

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

We 8K now! WOOOOOOO!

Here's me putting my money on it, games will barely look better than PS4 Pro. They can call it next-gen all they want, but it's not. Never will be. Maybe it's next-gen for Microsoft as they reach the finish line, but not next-gen in the literal sense, at all.

Don't kid yourself, biased game developers. It'll be another case of checkerboard rendering, with selected titles running at Native 4K, which is all GAF will buzz about and say "BUT BUT NEXT-GEN".

 

[graybot]

I guess the no VR thing means they are still on the fence. And that would be smart

Looking at PSVR, it already appears forgotten.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

Wait so Scorpio will have exclusive games that cannot run on the XB1? it goes againt what MS and DF said, if not and all Scorpio games will indeed run on the XB1 than it's NOT a new gen... I'm confused can anyone clarify???

Everything Microsoft has said indicates that isn't the case. Some people think it'll happen anyways.

Besides it going against Microsofts own words and PR, considering the likely install base of the Scorpio, the idea that it'll get full blown exclusives that can't be played on XB1 seems completely crazy.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

This is Sean Spicer moonlighting as a developer, right? It's canny resemblance to the type of reaction to Trump's Crowdgate scandal at the inauguration - 'it was this big' but it wasn't - is frightening.

This one takes the cake.

This community turns so toxic whenever anything console-wars is brought up. Step up and step in, mods. Control these threads.

 

[Sidewinder]

What is it now? If he meant: "Scorpio is far more of a next-gen jump compared to the Xbox One than the Pro compared to the PS4" I'd totally agree.

But if he meant: "Scorpio will be next-gen compared directly to the Pro" I'll have to see the receipts first, because that sounds very implausible unless we'll get Scorpio exclusive games from the start, which again would make MS a bunch of miserable liars and I can't see that happening honestly.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I always took the 'no-one left behind' to mean, Xbox One games will be compatible but the system itself could provide 'Scorpio only' exclusives.

Personally I think the system should have exclusive games.

 

[cripterion]

But all Xbox One games can be played on Scorpio, so no.

This.

 

[Neuromancer]

Ori and the Uncompressed Pixel

 

[wapplew]

I have this strange feeling Ori sequel not going to show up on steam anymore.

 

[Gurish]

Everything Microsoft has said indicates that isn't the case. Some people think it'll happen anyways.

Besides it going against Microsofts own words and PR, considering the likely install base of the Scorpio, the idea that it'll get full blown exclusives that can't be played on XB1 seems completely crazy.

Thanks that's what I think as well, no way it's gonna be their actual next gen system, maybe in pure power compared to the XB1 it's a decent upgrade but they are not abandoning millions of users mid gen like that, and as long as every Scorpio game will run on the XB1 they can never tap its full potential.

 

[Cyborg]

I mean, that's fine, and probably a good plan.

But jeez, this generation of consoles is really starting to get super fucked up.

Whaat? Why is that?

I owned a PS4 and now I own a Pro, it was my choice to do that. I can afford it and I just wanted to have that lil extra power. This generation (on PlayStation anyway) is so far amazing.

Amazing games, great visuals. Nothing fucked up about it.

 

[DangerMouse]

Whaat? Why is that?

I owned a PS4 and now I own a Pro, it was my choice to do that. I can afford it and I just wanted to have that lil extra power. This generation (on PlayStation anyway) is so far amazing.

Amazing games, great visuals. Nothing fucked up about it.

This. PS4 has been fantastic and these couple of months as well documented are adding yet another crapload of games to my shelf, I can't even quite buy them all day-1 like I want to lol.

 

[MysteryM]

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful* than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console

* Plus 50% more memory and more bandwidth.

Let me fix for you.

 

[Nestunt]

But all Xbox One games can be played on Scorpio, so no.

That's not what defines a next generation. But the other way around: if Scorpio games cannot be played on the XB1

 

[BrettHeazy]

only time before microsoft announce that Scorpio will be a brand new iteration with a X1/X360 virtual console application inside.

 

[Bishop89]

It does sound a bit fanboy'ish.

I'm guessing he is close to MS due the exclusivity of ori.

 

[Alienous]

Not if it shares its library entirely with the Xbox One.

 

[geordiemp]

Well currently the Ps4 pro is the most power unbalanced console in history.

4.5 TF of GPU and a measly 2.1 Ghz mobile Jaguar CPU, its a massive bottleneck of unprecedented proportions (and I have 2 of them). No Witcher at 60 FPS or any 30 FPS game will see the performance upgrades we all desire, just more pixels.

Looks like Scorpio will now take that unbalanced crown, games will display a little better but run roughly the same.

Next gen for consoles starts when we have a I5 class CPU as well as GPU / bandwidth grunt. We can have more AI, more Physics, more enemies and things happening. Open worlds will not be so empty and barren.

Here is to 2019.

 

[mrklaw]

If the white paper is accurate, it says no Scorpio-only games. Therefore it would not be a next gen console, no matter how powerful it is

 

[anothertech]

Thomas made it clear that Microsoft will need to do some work on promoting the new console to make sure the consumer doesn’t compare it to the PS4 Pro, and that it might just be considered an upgrade rather than this big new console.

well ya. Cause the price difference is gonnabe huge. But also, you know, they might think it's 'just an upgrade' cause that's what ms, spencer and the rest of the horses mouth have said over and over for the last year?

I wonder if Ps4 devs came out and said Xbone was a 'half assed upgrade' cause it was 50% weaker than the Ps4, how that would have panned out lol.

Also, holy shit at no more VR. Guess that's going down with scalebound and phantom dust.

'Fortunately we have a product if you want VR, and that's called the PC'

 

[AgeEighty]

Isn't it more relevant to look at global launch years if we're talking the pace of technical progress, or the US mass market's path if we're talking its appetite for buying new hardware? If it's the first the early Famicom and PS releases drive up the average wait for each company closer to sixish, and if it's the second I don't think we can draw any conclusion about a market that leapt from NES (1986 nationwide) to Genesis (1989) but also waited from X360 (2005) to PS4 (2013).

The gap was already six years for those two consoles in my list. That's why I said the "average" gap was five years (in one or two cases it's been four). I was responding to the other poster's suggestion that a five year gap is a new development.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

well ya. Cause the price difference is gonnabe huge. But also, you know, they might think it's 'just an upgrade' cause that's what ms, spencer and the rest of the horses mouth have said over and over for the last year?

I wonder if Ps4 devs came out and said Xbone was a 'half assed upgrade' cause it was 50% weaker than the Ps4, how that would have panned out lol.

Also, holy shit at no more VR. Guess that's going down with scalebound and phantom dust.

'Fortunately we have a product if you want VR, and that's called the PC'

If PS4 can add VR in 3 years later, pretty sure MS can do the same in anytime for Scorpio.
Question is, will VR big enough for MS to work with it, if not i can see why they drop it.

 

[Jumeira]

Well, I learned something today.

If someone delivers a console (w/o exlusives) with 4,2 TF in 2016 for $399 it's "half-assed", okay.

And if you deliver a console (w/o exlusives, either) a year later which is a staggering ~40% more powerful than the 2016 one it's a "full blown next gen console".


Sorry Thomas, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.

The 40% increase you claim isnt what he was alluding to though, his response was to challenging that idea.

 

[mario_O]

Yes that is not how any of this works or what Thomas meant.

It's more like this:

Scorpio over XB1
GPU = 360% increase
RAM = 50% increase
Bandwith = 370% increase (- whatever ESRAM did)
CPU = we don't know shit about it yet

Ps4 Pro over Ps4
GPU = 130% increase
RAM = 6.5% more usable ram for games
Bandwith = 24% increase
CPU = 30% increase

Well, the original Xbox one is inferior to the original PS4. So that doesn't tell the whole picture. It is 4.2Tflops vs 6Tflops. Not a massive "full blown" difference. Fanboy talk.