This isn't a toxic point-of-view. It's purely a demonstration of the thinking behind his comments. Reactionary without consideration. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'platform'.
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NeoGAF Post by Ori Dev: Scorpio is a "full blown next generation Console
- Thread starter viHuGi
- Start date
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
anothertech
Member
Cause they know they need to take those risks ya? Lol
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Sony/HTC/Oculus already taking the risk, and seems end up not very good.
If anything, MS never take any risk with VR since beginning, because if VR become big, they can add VR for Scorpio in launch and get some share from the big market, if not then they will just ignore it, even their "own" VR headset is just something licenses to the partners.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
That's the thing, I assume his post implied a gap greater than 40%,
12Dannu123
Member
They're not making the headsets though.... they're only providing the platform and the games.
KainXVIII
Member
Savage!
StrongBlackVine
Banned
If there is one thing I have learned on here it's that you should never assume anything when it comes diving meaning from what these people say. The interpretation that it is a bigger jump than PS4 to PS4 Pro seems like a more likely interpretation, but he is free to clear up any misconceptions. I see that has yet to happen though.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Since when was 1.8 Tflops not a massive difference? I've been told on here for years (3 years, to be precise) that 0.3 Tflops makes a ridiculous difference.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Yes? i know they're not making VR headset, that's why i said they never take risk with VR since beginning.
Roberto Larcos
Member
I don't want to derail this thread, but you're comparing a game dev who has talked only about the power of a games console to a neo-fascist mouthpiece.
I don't compare myself to Churchill because we've both worn brown shoes.
mario_O
Member
I don't think the word is "massive". This is just fanboy talk, and coming from a dev makes it more pathetic.
cripterion
Member
Didn't they say no exclusives for Scorpio? If so how can it be another full blown gen system?
brunomartynhak
Member
Just like PC I guess. An iterative console would not have exclusives, at least not before a few iterations. I guess.
Weltall Zero
Member
It really doesn't matter if the Scorpio is a thousand times more powerful than the XBone. As long as it doesn't have exclusive games, it's not really a generational leap.
Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with there not being any more generational leaps anymore. Starting each generation with a blank slate is pretty terrible from a game curation perspective. Perhaps make games exclusive to certain iterations later on (ex. game X released in 2020 works on Scorpio and the next iteration after that, but not the original XBone). The point is that there is no reason to lose backwards compatibility anymore.
Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with there not being any more generational leaps anymore. Starting each generation with a blank slate is pretty terrible from a game curation perspective. Perhaps make games exclusive to certain iterations later on (ex. game X released in 2020 works on Scorpio and the next iteration after that, but not the original XBone). The point is that there is no reason to lose backwards compatibility anymore.
martino
Member
maybe the things you ignore and he knows like the exact differences in cpu/memory/bandwith powers and how you can use it alleviate bootlenecks of current hardwares making the difference more relevant this time.
it's a maybe.
TBiddy
Member
Never trust a developer. Always trust random Gaf-members, when it comes to knowing stuff about a console, that not many people outside of Microsoft has actually seen yet.
Bear Force One
Banned
I wonder why it matters?
JetSetRadio
Banned
599 please
First because it's the best thing that could happen to gamers and they better understand this.
Second... well simple, think if ps2, ps3 and ps4 were compatible and their games made to take advantage of more powerful specs, instead of double or triple dip on those ps2 and ps3 remasters you would have been able to buy one time the original game on the original console and play them on ps4 at 4k.
That's what MS is planning to do, playing XB1 games on the XB2, 3 and so on and vice versa if the xb1 is powerful enough to run it, for example in 2025 the xb2 or 3 would be able to play an xb1 game and the xb1 would be able to play an xb2 or 3 indie or light game.
That says more about you than me because that wasn't my line of thinking, at all.
In context to 'platform' and considering these specs I don't see Scorpio as a generational leap. I've have not seen any evidence PS4 Pro is, factually, a generational leap over XBOX One, for instance. I can't see how an extra 1.8TF can make Scorpio a generational leap. Incremental, yes, generational, no.
Black Mantis
Member
Same, been trying to understand that logic, but it's confusing me!
hydrophilic attack
Member
That's not too hard to understand. Backwards compatibility has been a thing for ages. What is harder to understand is how a console can be a new generation when the previous generation is compatible with all its games
Isn't a 2017 (light)game playabe with a 2012 pc if this is powerful enough? Isn't a 2017 app compatible with the iphone 6 despite the presence of the iphone 7? That's the same logic.
LostDonkey
Member
This guy gets it.
Always-honest
Banned
I would love that to be true.
The pro however, was always going to be a ps4 with a small upgrade.
The pro however, was always going to be a ps4 with a small upgrade.
Think of it in "console ways"
like this:
PS1 - Can ONLY play PS1 games.
PS2 - Can Play PS2 games (but has BC for PS1)
PS3 - Can Play PS3 games (But some models have BC for PS2 games, and all have BC for PS1)
PS4 - Can play PS4 games.
PS4 Pro - Can Play PS4 games.
Xbox - Can Only play Xbox Games.
X360 - Can play X360 games (some Xbox games worked with BC)
Xbox One - Can play Xbox One games (BC for X360 games)
Xbox One S - Can play Xbox One games (BC for X360 games)
Xbox Scorpio - Can play Xbox One games (BC for X360 games)
The consoles with Italic fonts, they are not a new generation. They are just a new iteration of the same console.
thomasmahler
Member
Hallelujah.
Bitch Pudding
Member
That's not the issue. XBOX One is compatible with (a lot of) XBOX 360 titles.
But. The XBOX 360 can't play dedicated XBOX One titles (it lacks forward compatability).
The thing is: The XBOX One will be able to play every single (Non-VR) Scorpio title. So Scorpio will have - as far as we know - no (platform) exclusive games.
Now, let's talk about "definitions". What exactly defines a new console generation?
Is it "power"? No. It is not. Because we will never be able to agree on a "necessary improvement treshold / multiplicator" for that. Like: How much more TF does a new gen need? Do TF matter in the first place? And what about memory bandwidth? Or CPU generation?!
You, see, discussing about power is futile.
This is why quite a lot of people argue that dedicated games, and only those, are the only relevant distinctive factor between two generations.
Which is why so many here claim that Scorpio is "just" a beefed up XBOX One, no matter what MS puts in it. But all of those also said months ago that we consider Scorpio a "new gen" from the very second MS delivers exclusive games.
The thing is that perhaps this is only true for a certain amount of time.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Of course, that's why I said at the end that Scorpio's classification could change. But for now; I go with the official communication from MS.
hydrophilic attack
Member
But we already have nomenclature for how this stuff works with consoles. The DSi was an upgrade over the DS and had some exclusive features not found on the DS. It's still the same platform though and not a new one because the vast majority of its games were playable on DS
Why should gamers change the accepted nomenclature just because Microsoft determined that would be beneficial for their marketing?
LostDonkey
Member
You mean the official communication that's now changed to remove the word "all"?
BradleyLove
Member
Why is it so hard to understand that MS have specifically stated Scorpio is a member of the XB1 family? In addition the leak states that no Scorpio-only SKUs are permitted.
Finally, a new generation that's still using Jaguar? Based on the leak, Scorpio is a great spec for a mid-gen refresh, but for a new gen it would be very disappointing.
brunomartynhak
Member
Twist a little bit and it can become "Xbox One can play Scorpio games" (forward compatibility). Then maybe "Xbox One can play 'Xbox Spider' games, but not Xbox Snake games".
GeordieMark
Member
What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?
tareqsalah1
Member
Whats risky is if xbox decides to start the next gen then they wont be supported by devs and gamers.
Sony is going strong, and even though the switch is a new nintendo gen, it feels like a current gen since they said they have gathered 3rd party support so games on ps4 will start appearing on switch. Gamers are excited for the switch and ps4 is the leader this gen.
So if the scorpio is a full blown next gen, why would devs and gamers move their attention from ps4 and a nintendo console to the scorpio?
They are in a hard place now. I dont envy xbox
Sony is going strong, and even though the switch is a new nintendo gen, it feels like a current gen since they said they have gathered 3rd party support so games on ps4 will start appearing on switch. Gamers are excited for the switch and ps4 is the leader this gen.
So if the scorpio is a full blown next gen, why would devs and gamers move their attention from ps4 and a nintendo console to the scorpio?
They are in a hard place now. I dont envy xbox
So where is the line drawn between Scorpio and PS4 Pro? What makes one half-assed and the other next-gen?
TBiddy
Member
So, lets for arguments sake say, that Scorpio and the PS5 both share the game library with their predecessors, you wouldn't consider that a new generation? What if the PS4 Pro can play PS6 gamesm, albeit in lower res and less FPS? The PS6 isnt' a new generation then? And what if the XB1 can play Scorpio2 games?
Sometimes I think that the arguments made here on NeoGAF change in order to support whichever console manufacturer one supports.
While I agree with what you're saying - the problem term here is the word "generation" - especially if you bring PC into the argument.
If we could chuck that word out then I'm all for it.
MarkMclovin
Member
Someone wanna translate this for me?
Candescence
Member
Assuming that there are exclusives, that's hardly certain. Nevermind the possibility of diminishing returns (we're not gonna see another 6th gen -> 7th gen jump in a long time, if ever again), the proposition involves asking third parties to make even higher-budget titles exclusively for a system that has an even worse install base than the Xbone right out of the starting gate when the PS4 is basically winning by a country mile and the PS4 Pro isn't splitting Sony's install base, and Sony is clearly content to continue the gen as it is for a while longer instead of rushing to make a new system.
In some ways, that is an even worse gamble for MS than Nintendo is making with the Switch. At least Nintendo has the cash reserves and pricing strategy to withstand a few more potential failures, MS' games division has been losing money for MS over a decade and many MS shareholders have wanted to see the division scrapped for ages.