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[whyamihere]

This is the shit right here that is the downfall of the left. Identity politics. Stop doing this. It is not going to get america out of the hole it dug itself.

But he's correct. Trump's policies will exclusivity benefit straight white men. I would add a class element on top of that and say that his policies will only benefit rich straight white men.

If you can't synthesize class and identity, you will not have a winning Democratic coalition in 2018 or 2020.

 

[LosDaddie]

She was.

But it was clear that qualifications and actual real policy had no place in the election this year.

I actually thought Kaine was more qualified than Abuela for prez. But sure, she was more qualified than Obama was in 2008.

OFA effectively crippled the DNC's operation for the past 8 year, so, how about we don't do that.

Certainly a misstep for OFA and the DNC to not work together better, but OFA knew how to get GOTV for their candidate...and where to campaign.

 

[guek]

The Bernie campaign did way more than "explore" the extent of the glitch. They accessed valuable voter data from the Clinton campaign instead of reporting the glitch immediately.

You're comparing that to Hillary getting a debate question about water in Flint ahead of a debate in Flint? They aren't even close to being the same.

You're right, they're not close to being the same because Hillary's camp faced no official reprimand and no one was held accountable for the inaction until DWS was forced out. A member of Bernie's campaign made a fatal error in judgement, reported his wrongdoing, and was immediately fired. They weren't caught red handed like you're trying to suggest. They didn't maliciously try to to data mine and hide the fact. It's not even remotely on the same level as having your campaign collude with the DNC which is supposed to be maintaining a fair contest and then never doing anything to discipline those responsible.

 

[jtb]

Chasing those types of voters is what dems have done since Reagan, and it clearly ran out of gas by the time we got to Trump.

If that's who they want, why are you worried about a Sanders e-mail list in the first place?

because they're not mutually exclusive! we need to build a coalition to win majorities and get progressive policies passed! we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. when it comes to retaking the house, I'd rather have a 50-state, all hands on deck strategy than one that targets a tiny subset of midwestern voters.

How can you re-take the house if you're not going to focus on the easy seats first? Why cut off your nose to spite your face??

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is the shit right here that is the downfall of the left. Identity politics. Stop doing this. It is not going to get america out of the hole it dug itself.

Why the hell did you cut out all the context around that phrase?

Trump clearly does not seem to be interested in advancing policies that benefit anyone other than straight white males. But you can keep holding out hope.

What in that is false?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Even though they literally did help him?

So the DNC and Clinton were able to convince Trump to run, influence the moderate and independent electorate, and also the media in a vast conspiracy for them to cover how they did?

And Trump of course agreed to provide all the material. If anything, the pivotal moment was the 2011 Correspondent's Dinner.

Trump's ego alone made him run. His vile rhetoric and "telling it like it is" is what gave him additional attention.

 

[whyamihere]

Reminder: Bernie developed his donor base in a presidential year, which has a distinctly powerful media and public focus. The DNC is doing the work of building state parties and looking ahead at the less centralized mid terms.

Saying "just do what Bernie did" is silly and dismissive of the nature of the challenges ahead for the DNC. It assumes a level of comparability between these presidential / nonpresidential campaigns which simply does not exist.

It would really be great to have Bernie's list for DE SD10 and MN 32B in the next two weeks.

 

[tearsintherain]

Seriously, what does Bernie brings to the table that the Democratic party currently lacks?

Let's make it something policy-based. Don't say charisma. (Never hurts, though. See: Obama)

What is this magic ingredient? Why don't we just name it so we can finally build this winning strategy? Because I really really want to win and get progressive policies in place.

Single payer healthcare
higher taxes on wealthy
cut military budget
stop fucking around with foreign countries
higher taxes on corporations
college tuitions payed for by federal govt
technical vocational schools payed for by federal govt for those who don't want college
fuck companies that want to outsource jobs to China, tax all their imports at 100%

I'm sure others can list more. These are all things that will win democrats the rust belt, but most establishment democrats are too in the pocket of corporations and lobbyists to ever champion any of these things, and they immediately pull back when a conservative mocks them for being commies.

I'm a conservative and I would 100% vote for a democrat who would propose those things above (even though my taxes would rise) because it would help the country and my grand kids. Worthless policies that Clinton, Obama, etc support that basically say nothing and do nothing but help corporations will never get my vote.

 

[shem935]

This is the shit right here that is the downfall of the left. Identity politics. Stop doing this. It is not going to get america out of the hole it dug itself.

Don't you look silly.

 

[Arttemis]

This is such bullshit. Bernie got buried in the primary, period. He maintained the illusion of progress on the back of caucuses, by far the most undemocratic election system we still use. I fucking hate this idea that apparently the people who voted for HIllary don't seem to count to you people.

She was running with the full, biased support of her party that actively campaigned against him. It was David vs Goliath. His performance in the face of that is nothing short of remarkable.

 

[whyamihere]

I actually thought Kaine was more qualified than Abuela for prez. But sure, she was more qualified than Obama was in 2008.





Certainly a misstep for OFA and the DNC to not work together better, but OFA knew how to get GOTV for their candidate...and where to campaign.

I mean, OFA is also part of the reason why the bottom fell out in our local elections, so. I'm not really ready to give Obama's vanity project a pass.

 

[ThisGuy]

What in that is false?

Pro-life ain't helping anyone's wallet. Not even the mighty mighty white man.

 

[RecRoulette]

DNC sounds like Jack Lemmon sniffing around for the Glengarry leads.

This. Can't believe this is what they're focusing on.

 

[Rentahamster]

So the DNC and Clinton were able to convince Trump to run, influence the moderate and independent electorate, and also the media in a vast conspiracy for them to cover how they did?

And Trump of course agreed to provide all the material. If anything, the pivotal moment was the 2011 Correspondent's Dinner.

Trump's ego alone made him run. His vile rhetoric and "telling it like it is" is what gave him additional attention.

Did you read the source I linked?

 

[zou]

Can't just ask Clinton? That's how he got it after all.

 

[royalan]

You're right, they're not close to being the same because Hillary's camp faced no official reprimand and no one was held accountable for the inaction until DWS was forced out. A member of Bernie's campaign made a fatal error in judgement, reported his wrongdoing, and was immediately fired. They weren't caught red handed like you're trying to suggest. They didn't maliciously try to to data mine and hide the fact. It's not even remotely on the same level as having your campaign collude with the DNC which is supposed to be maintaining a fair contest and then never doing anything to discipline those responsible.

He didn't report his wrongdoing until after he was caught. And initially they lied about it.

 

[kirblar]

I mean, OFA is also part of the reason why the bottom fell out in our local elections, so. I'm not really ready to give Obama's vanity project a pass.

OFA and the Sanders campaign fundraising both fell apart the moment their charismatic figurehead wasn't running and drawing in the dinero.

 

[whyamihere]

She was running with the full, biased support of her party that actively campaigned against him. It was David vs the Goliath. His performance in the face of that is nothing short of remarkable.

I mean, even if Bernie had gotten more party support, he still would've run into the same issues.

It was so dumb for Hillary to ignore Wisconsin, Michigan, and rural Pennsylvania. It was also so dumb for Bernie to ignore the entire South. Maybe if we had two competent campaigners we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

You're right, they're not close to being the same because Hillary's camp faced no official reprimand and no one was held accountable for the inaction until DWS was forced out. A member of Bernie's campaign made a fatal error in judgement, reported his wrongdoing, and was immediately fired. They weren't caught red handed like you're trying to suggest. They didn't maliciously try to to data mine and hide the fact. It's not even remotely on the same level as having your campaign collude with the DNC which is supposed to be maintaining a fair contest and then never doing anything to discipline those responsible.

This is an incredible attempt to downplay the importance of voter data in modern elections

Also the part about Uretsky reporting his wrongdoing is flat out false - he never did such a thing

 

[excelsiorlef]

*proceeds to relentlessly attack the figurehead of the socialist wing of the party*

Huh?

So being critical of Sanders is now relegating the primary?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Did you read the source I linked?

Yeah, and I had a hard time finding the "how" regarding the plan actually used. Because to carry that out, that's what is what needed to have been done.

 

[jtb]

Single payer healthcare
higher taxes on wealthy
cut military budget
stop fucking around with foreign countries
higher taxes on corporations
college tuitions payed for by federal govt
technical vocational schools payed for by federal govt for those who don't want college
fuck companies that want to outsource jobs to China, tax all their imports at 100%

I'm sure others can list more. These are all things that will win democrats the rust belt, but most establishment democrats are too in the pocket of corporations and lobbyists to ever champion any of these things, and they immediately pull back when a conservative mocks them for being commies.

I'm a conservative and I would 100% vote for a democrat who would propose those things above (even though my taxes would rise) because it would help the country and my grand kids. Worthless policies that Clinton, Obama, etc support that basically say nothing and do nothing but help corporations will never get my vote.

Obama and Clinton supported most of these things, or various implementations of them.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, why do you self-identify as a conservative when you go against 90% of the current GOP party platform? You seem like a pretty straightforward Dem from this post.

 

[royalan]

*proceeds to relentlessly attack the figurehead of the socialist wing of the party*

How exactly is that relitigating the primary? Does Bernie Sanders only exist as a 2016 democratic primary candidate to you?

 

[BasicMath]

You're right, they're not close to being the same because Hillary's camp faced no official reprimand and no one was held accountable for the inaction until DWS was forced out. A member of Bernie's campaign made a fatal error in judgement, reported his wrongdoing, and was immediately fired. They weren't caught red handed like you're trying to suggest. They didn't maliciously try to to data mine and hide the fact. It's not even remotely on the same level as having your campaign collude with the DNC which is supposed to be maintaining a fair contest and then never doing anything to discipline those responsible.

Don't forget that DWS was immediately given a position with the Clinton campaign. That always gets me.

You can't make this shit up.
Bunch of incompetent lunatics. I wish they'd just get rid of the entire DNC/Clinton Campaign staff and blacklist them.

 

[MechanicalWall]

She was running with the full, biased support of her party that actively campaigned against him. It was David vs Goliath. His performance in the face of that is nothing short of remarkable.

Yeah, it turns out that building relationships, making significant political and financial contributions to, and actually being a part of the party you're running for the nomination of comes with some benefits. And those emails everyone's so obsessed were from April and May, AKA long after Sanders' campaign had any hope of recovery. I'd be pretty upset to if this fucking guy who is clearly not winning shit continued to run purely out of spite, all while making a conscious effort to divide liberal voters despite fucking Trump waiting in the wings.

 

[Gruco]

Asking supporters to donate to a third party is not the same as handing their personal info over to that third party's fundraising apparatus.

So this argument essentially boils down to "good when Bernie does it, bad when the DNC does it." That's exactly whatever makes this whole situation irritating.

It bugged the hell out of me when Barack Obama pestered me to help Hillary pay back her loans in 2008. There was nothing morally superior about that action compared to when he gave his full list to the DNC.

I gave because I believed in what the dude what trying to accomplish. Sanders fans are smart enough to decide what candidates they like.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah, and I had a hard time finding the "how" regarding the plan actually used. Because to carry that out, that's what is what needed to have been done.

They don't need any of that to do this:

“In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” the Clinton campaign wrote.

As examples of these “pied piper” candidates, the memo named Donald Trump — as well as Sen. Ted Cruz and Ben Carson).

“We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously,” the Clinton campaign concluded.

This document was part of the tens of thousands of emails to and from John Podesta, the chair of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, which were released by WikiLeaks.

Other messages published by the whistleblowing organization show how, while the Clinton camp was facilitating the rise of Trump, it was systematically undermining the campaign of Sen. Bernie Sanders, Clinton’s left-wing opponent.

Leaked emails from the Democratic National Committee show that the organization, which is supposed to be bound to impartiality, sabotaged Sanders’ insurgent presidential campaign, which had mobilized millions of people and inspired a massive grassroots movement.

 

[whyamihere]

I mean, this is an easy question:

Should the Democratic candidates in Delaware Senate District 10 and Minnesota House District 32B running for election in swing seats in the next two weeks have access to Bernie's email list?

 

[Rentahamster]

So this argument essentially boils down to "good when Bernie does it, bad when the DNC does it." That's exactly whatever makes this whole situation irritating.

Uh, no. It's the difference between asking on someone's behalf, and releasing your private information to them without your permission.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I love being shamed as a white Berniebro

gonna have to figure out who did Sammy Sosa's skin for him

but let's not re-litigate the primary...

What the hell are you even getting offended at? This is where the intial quote was pulled from

Trump clearly does not seem to be interested in advancing policies that benefit anyone other than straight white males. But you can keep holding out hope.

Are you offended by reality?

 

[kirblar]

Don't forget that DWS was immediately given a position with the Clinton campaign. That always gets me.

You can't make this shit up.
Bunch of incompetent lunatics. I wish they'd just get rid of the entire DNC/Clinton Campaign staff and blacklist them.

She was given a token position because she is a toxic nightmare of a human being.

 

[guek]

He didn't report his wrongdoing until after he was caught. And initially they lied about it.

Did you even read that article?

I don't think you did.

Sanders said that his campaign did not go out and take information from the Clinton campaign. From all accounts, it is true that the Sanders campaign did not attempt to break into the voter data of a rival campaign. The Sanders people stumbled upon a glitch.

But rather than reporting the glitch immediately, they probed the database for a bit under two hours.

They reported the glitch after less than 2hrs, the guy who found it and responsible for that delay was fired.

 

[B-Dubs]

I mean, this is an easy question:

Should the Democratic candidates in Delaware Senate District 10 and Minnesota House District 32B running for election in swing seats in the next two weeks have access to Bernie's email list?

It doesn't even need to be the full list, just the people in their districts could be enough to make a difference and keep those seats out of the GOP's hands.

 

[whyamihere]

They don't need any of that to do this:

Oh my god that's not what a Pied Piper candidate is.

It's trying to tie people you think are going to win to seemingly unpopular other candidates.

It's like when Hillary started to use the line "this is the party of Trump" because Trump was perceived by everyone as being a drag on the eventual GOP GE candidate.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

They don't need any of that to do this:

But how? I get the article and WikiLeaks is saying she did XYZ, but I'm missing the how.

Undermining Bernie? He's a primary candidate running against her. This is SOP for any primary ever.

 

[Deepwater]

Obama and Clinton supported most of these things, or various implementations of them.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, why do you self-identify as a conservative when you go against 90% of the current GOP party platform? You seem like a pretty straightforward Dem from this post.

Not a berniebro, but I vehemently disagreed with Obama's (and by extension Clinton's) foreign policy and it would have been a part of a strong case for me not voting for either.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Don't forget that DWS was immediately given a position with the Clinton campaign. That always gets me.

You can't make this shit up.
Bunch of incompetent lunatics. I wish they'd just get rid of the entire DNC/Clinton Campaign staff and blacklist them.

DWS was given a please fuck off meaningless title because she wouldn't go quietly without it.

And yes just blacklisting everyone is a fantastic solution.

 

[whyamihere]

It doesn't even need to be the full list, just the people in their districts could be enough to make a difference and keep those seats out of the GOP's hands.

I mean yes that. But can we all agree those two people should get that aspect of Bernie's list?

 

[royalan]

Did you even read that article?

I don't think you did.



They reported the glitch after less than 2hrs, the guy who found it and responsible for that delay was fired.

Did you?

Despite the fact that the Sanders campaign staffer initially lied about breaching Hillary's data, Bernie himself lied when he said his campaign did nothing with Hillary's data, which is why Politifact gave him a "Mostly False" in that article.

 

[Arttemis]

Yeah, it turns out that building relationships, making significant political and financial contributions to, and actually being a part of the party you're running for the nomination of comes with some benefits. And those emails everyone's so obsessed were from April and May, AKA long after Sanders' campaign had any hope of recovery. I'd be pretty upset to if this fucking guy who is clearly not winning shit continued to run purely out of spite, all while making a conscious effort to divide liberal voters despite fucking Trump waiting in the wings.

So when a political party violates its own ethics clauses against one of its members before the primary is concluded... the member who is violated against should just concede?

 

[B-Dubs]

I mean yes that. But can we all agree those two people should get that aspect of Bernie's list?

I should hope so.

 

[royalan]

So when a political party violates its own ethics clauses against one of its members before the primary is concluded... the member who is violated against should just concede?

Which ethics clauses?

Go ahead, cite them.

This reads like a bunch of primary-related salt to me:



And the thread right now is going on about the voter data incident, and framing this e-mail list situation as "do you want to fight Trump or not?" all while people keep repeating "let's not re-litigate the primary."

Again, how is this primary related salt? This is how Bernie Sanders is behaving today. He attacked Perez and Biden just this week. This is current.

Sorry, but Sanders gives plenty of cause for criticism without having to go back to the primaries.

 

[jtb]

This reads like a bunch of primary-related salt to me:



And the thread right now is going on about the voter data incident, and framing this e-mail list situation as "do you want to fight Trump or not?" all while people keep repeating "let's not re-litigate the primary."

How is it NOT about fighting Trump? How does this do anything to defeat Republicans or get progressive policies passed??

Politics is a zero-sum game. Either Trump wins or he loses.

I want him to lose. I'm guessing Bernie wants him to lose. Why not act to achieve that goal?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Not a berniebro, but I vehemently disagreed with Obama's (and by extension Clinton's) foreign policy and it would have been a part of a strong case for me not voting for either.

I mean, out of the field, even when expanded to all primary candidates in all four parties, who else even remotely had competent foreign policy experience?

I get not being a fan of her Foreign Policy (I'm not either), but it's not really like there was a good alternative. But hey, now we get Steve "Wants to watch the world burn" Bannon in Trump's ear.

 

[whyamihere]

I should hope so.

Okay great I look forward to the rest of the thread agreeing so we can move on because that's the whole point of the OP.

 

[legacyzero]

Bernie aint giving that shit up. Besides, it's not the LIST that showed how he rallied that many people to the cause. It was his spirit. Talking about real issues. Not platitudes and outrage at the antics of Trump the shitbag. Bernie got played. Now you assholes get to figure it out for yourself.

Also, The DNC antics have paved a way for a tea-party like movement that's already exploding in just weeks,

Justice Democrats have gathered over 110,000 members in just a couple weeks, and have collected almost a half million on contributions. And we're not even half way to 2018.

Step aside you crooks.

Also, There are outsides jumping in the race for DNC chair
Samuel Ronan had some choice words that are starting to get viral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rpINookVU&t=439s
(Warning: Annoying Jimmy Dore)

This video shows the incompetence of those running for the position, and then Samuel steps in and give them heat.

Every time I read behind-the-scenes stuff about the DNC, I'm shocked at the level of sheer incompetence.

"Bu-Bu-But it wasn't the DNC!"

 

[Rentahamster]

But how? I get the article and WikiLeaks is saying she did XYZ, but I'm missing the how.

For example:

The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.”

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Did you even read that article?

I don't think you did.



They reported the glitch after less than 2hrs, the guy who found it and responsible for that delay was fired.

That doesn't say they reported the glitch. By all accounts it was NGP VAN themselves who found it and fixed it. Even if not, waiting 2 hours to report the glitch (and searching around in Clinton's data during this time) is 2 hours too long.

2 hours is plenty of time to access valuable voter data, especially when export options are available.

 

[kirblar]

Obama and Clinton supported most of these things, or various implementations of them.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, why do you self-identify as a conservative when you go against 90% of the current GOP party platform? You seem like a pretty straightforward Dem from this post.

"Corportations are the real problem" and a list that leaves out any mention of issues facing minorities or women should probably be a clue.

 

[MechanicalWall]

So when a political party violates its own ethics clauses against one of its members before the primary is concluded... the member who is violated against should just concede?

He should have conceded after he got buried on Super Tuesday and clearly couldn't win the African-American support needed in a Democratic primary. Any 'ethics violations' (AKA getting a tip about the most obvious question ever) mentioned in these emails came long after the point any sane person would have gracefully conceded.