Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
That's nice and all but there's a huge difference between Kelsey Grammar being and alchoholic and a republican and someone being openly racist and spewing racist remarks. This is just like the moronic "both sides" arguments.
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JonTron (youtuber) speaks against demographic "invasion" of America by nonwhites
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That's nice and all but there's a huge difference between Kelsey Grammar being and alchoholic and a republican and someone being openly racist and spewing racist remarks. This is just like the moronic "both sides" arguments.
In two audio logs about Jontron where he addresses what he actually said for less than a minute all he mostly talked about is how Gizmodo turned vulnerable/ autistic ("on the spectrum") gamers and anime fans into alt-righters and how he doesn't have to condemn Jon just because he is being told to. That people are "virtue signaling" in their "witch hunt" of Jontron.
FlutterPuffs
Member
While I understand what TB is going on about, it has to be said that he's seeing this through a white man perspective.
As an asian, it had me rolling my eyes. It's nice to have the privilege of asking us to see the bigger picture when you arent the one being attacked.
As an asian, it had me rolling my eyes. It's nice to have the privilege of asking us to see the bigger picture when you arent the one being attacked.
I listen to TB a lot and he never says anything that warrants the countless comments on this very thread about what a shithead he apparently is. He is very clearly making points that I would have thought many on this forum would deem sensible, but this place never ceases to surprise me.
It's really pathetic behavior when so many of you feel the need to name call like that (about him, AVGN or Jon, or anyone).
Jon's views, by the way, are just crazy to me. I did find his comment about "fine, take the whiteness away from me" fascinating. He, who himself is half Iranian, truly sees himself as white?
It's really pathetic behavior when so many of you feel the need to name call like that (about him, AVGN or Jon, or anyone).
Jon's views, by the way, are just crazy to me. I did find his comment about "fine, take the whiteness away from me" fascinating. He, who himself is half Iranian, truly sees himself as white?
Napalm_Frank
Member
I'm pretty sure Nazis were actually pretty ok with muslims in general, Iran was on good terms with them until the place was invaded by the allies.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
You really think people can just ignore it when someone says they're genetically inferior and predisposed to commit crimes? This is full on hate speech. There are some things you just can't ignore. The effect of this kind of speech on people is real and it's effect on the world is real. It doesn't go away when you ignore it
Did you miss my original post?
I didn't say his opinions were good. I just said it's better to remove yourself from content creator's political and religious beliefs.
It's for the better overall if you do. Are Jon's beliefs on display in his content?
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
How could it ever possibly be better to ignore something like this? You really think white supremacy doesn't effect people?
Are you actually Japanese or is this going to be yet another Rachel Dolezal-san thing again on this forum.
Why should I give my money to someone who hates me? Just because that person creates content? Content creation doesn't entitle someone to be rewarded.
Stead Fast
Banned
I'd be more open to accepting that concept if a) said support for that content helped fuel very negative traits (from Jon's bigotry here, to the abusive lifestyles you outlined - there are MILLIONS of entertainers out there more worthy of time and support if you want to make that argument), b) Jon's status appeal exists beyond just the content of his show, Twitter and YT have been designed and redesigned ad nausea not to help the viewer, but to help the content creator spread their influence as far as possible (by influence I mean exposure to audiences) - what Jon says and does on one of his platforms is indicative of his whole brand, and c) a reaching argument compared to the two already mentioned by BY2K even posted that bit here from Game Grumps where Jon wouldn't stop saying "n***er" - read into that and his subsequent shady departure all you want, follow the route that that soundbite was purely in jest compared to the stuff he argued with Destiny, but it certainly chimes well with his current frame of mind.
Edit: Said bit
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I even replied to your original post. Glad to see you're actually reading the thread you're responding to. Also, your post responded to nothing in my post so I'm not sure what you're responding to?
The vitriol is not exclusively directed at JonTron, but also his ideas. If what he said was shared among friends/family in a private setting then he wouldn't be feeling any backlash. As an online personality with 2.5 million-ish viewers, when he posts to Twitter it is not only an personal endorsement of a philosophy of what many (hopefully most) people find to be reprehensible, but also the proliferation of those ideas.
Should he be "stoned to death"? No. But he should face the repercussions of posting such garbage to a public space. This includes rebuttals in the same online space (Twitter/Twitch/Forums/etc.) and - in my opinion - a loss in income from those choosing not to support those ideals.
This isn't harassment. This is an equal and appropriate response.
Should he be "stoned to death"? No. But he should face the repercussions of posting such garbage to a public space. This includes rebuttals in the same online space (Twitter/Twitch/Forums/etc.) and - in my opinion - a loss in income from those choosing not to support those ideals.
This isn't harassment. This is an equal and appropriate response.
Somehow I doubt people listened to the two hour racist litany and thought to themselves "that's right, fuck Gizmodo!". Feel free to address what TB said directly before continuing to say he was reasonable.
You can't when viewing his content literally supports JonTron's financial situation, which continues to give him a platform for which to push racist, scumbag ideology.
One can separate an artist from his art - though JonTron has always been an unfunny asshole in my view - but not when the dude is still alive actively getting money and actively helping give alt-right/white supremacist views a platform.
This was like when people didn't want to give Shadow Complex money because Orson Scott Card would get paid, and that write was actively giving to anti-LGBT causes and writing abhorrent, homophobic rants all the time.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I'm just listening to his second Soundcloud upload, and it's even worse than the first. He's asking what the point would be in calling out Jon on his opinions, claiming people are bullying and again saying this is a "witch hunt", missing the entire point of the term. And like others have mentioned, he's saying no-one is engaging Jon in discussions or discourse when that's exactly what Destiny tried doing for over an hour to absolutely no avail.
EDIT - hahahahaha; he's saying that anyone criticising Jon is no better than Keemstar!
EDIT 2 - now he's saying, and I quote "Condemnation of him or his views does not accomplish a damn thing". What a prick.
EDIT 3 - now he's comparing his dealing with cancer to sitting down and talking through these issues with Jon. I don't really understand the relevance.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Of course! He's one of the "good ones"
Tell that to David Clarke. He's a deeply conservative and self-hating African-American police officer that hates minorities and loves spouting toxic and racist rhetoric.
Hmmm...
Max Knight
Member
I don't agree with anything Jon is saying here. I also think he should have prepared better before agreeing to a debate with anyone. This was very poorly argued on his side.
Although I also disagree with the idea that his Debate with Destiny (™?) was "polite discourse." I listened to the whole thing, and I think both parties were pretty condescending to the other basically the entire time, and were constantly shouting each other down. I know the whole "tone policing" argument, but tone matters when you're trying to be persuasive.
That said, I think a personal friend calmly chatting with Jon in private about these things would do more good than being shouted down by a stranger on a public stream, even if the content is identical. So the idea that Totalbiscuit talking to Jon is "pointless because Destiny already explained why he's wrong" is way off-point, in my opinion.
I also don't agree with the concept of ideas that are "obviously wrong, so there's no need to entertain it by proving it wrong." If it was that "obviously wrong" to everybody, nobody would've brought it up to begin with. Just the premise of that argument is fallacious. If an idea is as obviously wrong as you claim, it should be easy to disprove, so take the time to do it so there's no question.
With all of that said, I still think Jon has made a serious misstep here, and I don't at all blame people for not wanting to support him after this debacle. If he's "just not good at articulating points," as he is so wont to say, he should probably spend more time on his political speech and present it in a more polished format instead of spewing stream-of-consciousness quips on Twitter. He might still be wrong, but at least then he'd be clear to himself.
That's all I've got. Carry on with the dogpile.
Although I also disagree with the idea that his Debate with Destiny (™?) was "polite discourse." I listened to the whole thing, and I think both parties were pretty condescending to the other basically the entire time, and were constantly shouting each other down. I know the whole "tone policing" argument, but tone matters when you're trying to be persuasive.
That said, I think a personal friend calmly chatting with Jon in private about these things would do more good than being shouted down by a stranger on a public stream, even if the content is identical. So the idea that Totalbiscuit talking to Jon is "pointless because Destiny already explained why he's wrong" is way off-point, in my opinion.
I also don't agree with the concept of ideas that are "obviously wrong, so there's no need to entertain it by proving it wrong." If it was that "obviously wrong" to everybody, nobody would've brought it up to begin with. Just the premise of that argument is fallacious. If an idea is as obviously wrong as you claim, it should be easy to disprove, so take the time to do it so there's no question.
With all of that said, I still think Jon has made a serious misstep here, and I don't at all blame people for not wanting to support him after this debacle. If he's "just not good at articulating points," as he is so wont to say, he should probably spend more time on his political speech and present it in a more polished format instead of spewing stream-of-consciousness quips on Twitter. He might still be wrong, but at least then he'd be clear to himself.
That's all I've got. Carry on with the dogpile.
Rockin' Ranger
Member
TheBlackMarvel
Member
I would ask you to please quote something TB said that you find warrants all the nasty comments about him. Maybe I missed something.
Stead Fast
Banned
By his logic, has his commentary of game developers/publishers/news outlets over the years accomplished anything? Either they have and he's a hypocrite, or they haven't in which case he is a failure.
"I put a hole in that nigga"
I mean, kinda, yeah, lol
um whos man is this lmfao. please come fetch him before he hurts himself.
I will repeat myself - listen to the audio logs he posted yesterday. Many people are quoting him, as I have done several times in this thread. Now it's your turn to show you even bothered to listen to him before entering this discussion. You made the sweeping generalizations. It's time you backed it up.
Bringing up your cancer, as a way to excuse another person's xenophobic attitude, is not exactly a sane proposition to have.
ISee
Member
JonTron is a second generation half iranian, half hungarian immigrant. And still he decided to go:"yep, bashing immigrants is fine."
And I know I said it before, but there is a certain irony to him being afraid of immigrants, thinking that integration can't work (when it worked for him), and thinking that some people are more prone to be criminals because of their skin color.
I dunno guys, there are a lot of people in the entertainment industry. And remember, Jon Tron's content isn't made by him alone, he has a team.
Is there something fantastical about me being japanese? I'm British but my parents are both from Japan. I was born here so I admit I don't really identify much with Japan, but my point was that I'm not white and I'm not a guy, I'm not in a situation where I can ignore everything because I'm in a majority class of people.
I can ignore things because most actors, musicians and performers, even with the strongest upon strongest views, almost never make any difference with their political views. If it doesn't affect their content it's not something to worry about.
Is there something fantastical about me being japanese? I'm British but my parents are both from Japan. I was born here so I admit I don't really identify much with Japan, but my point was that I'm not white and I'm not a guy, I'm not in a situation where I can ignore everything because I'm in a majority class of people.
I can ignore things because most actors, musicians and performers, even with the strongest upon strongest views, almost never make any difference with their political views. If it doesn't affect their content it's not something to worry about.
You could use the same argument/defense for any hate speech. There are obviously plenty of people that feel the same was as JonTron; many wear sheets. Just because a population of people believe something doesn't inherently give it value.
"Minorities are genetically inferior to whites" is false. Just because he believes it to be true does not mean that I or anyone else should respect that opinion.
Destiny absolutely was not "shouting" - you have a tepid understanding of the term if you believe that - and at worst his language merely sped up at times it exasperation at the stupidity on display. That is as close to "condescending" as Destiny got.
In fact, I'll put it to you. What line or phrase did Destiny use that was condescending? What tone of his was condescending? Using indisputable facts/hard data and sighing heavily when JonTron says the latest despicable racist thing != condescension.
You mean than being humiliated on a public stream. Totalbiscuit is a fucking asshole too, so I doubt that poison pill will help matters at all. We live in a post-Trump world. "Calmly" telling the other side they're wrong because what they're saying is racist garbage doesn't work either. Going high when they go low failed.
Now of course there are exceptions to anything and if you know someone who has an actual relationship with JonTron and isn't simultaneously a huge douchebag, I'd love to see him go in and try so we can end the farce that calmly talking to racists changes their views. Because if what Destiny did was considered "condescending" and "shouting", then I'd love to see the kid glove garbage that constituted a "polite" conversation with this racist shitbird.
THIS is fallacious BS. People believe the Earth is flat. People believe 9/11 was an inside job. People believe that the Pyramids were built by aliens. People believe that Obama watched Trump through a microwave. People believe we didn't land on the moon. People believe that the richest black man commits as much crime as the poorest white.
Just because we can find people who believe in an ideology does not mean something is not obviously, self-evidently wrong. Absurd. Simply absurd.
Stead Fast
Banned
And yet when he speaks, he speaks for all of them. It's his brand they work for.
Edit: Also the first sentence backs up what I mentioned before, there are many, many other people just as talented (if not moreso) to give positive attention to.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
White supremacy has always been serious. I can't believe you really think this 'doesn't make any difference'
I saw this thread today and finished listening to "gizmodo-planet-of-hacks" by TB. This is a large thread. I've read many pages and feel I am missing something here. I ask, politely, what I did in my previous post.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
i mean if racism was so obviously wrong wouldn't be no one that believed it to be true, right?
checkmate.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
But he really is a shithead. Even just by listening to these two soundclouds, one could garner that he's a massive shithead.
And that's without the context of knowing his history with GG. Knowing all that nonsense, TB (and his holier-than-thou schtick) has proven himself to be quite simply just a reprehensible shithead.
The funny part is, JonTron got a friendly chat. Destiny gave him over an hour on stream to present his position and debate it without immediately telling him to fuck off.
The funny thing is this guy acts exactly like many other alt-right parasites do. He spent months/years pretending he was a voice of reason and playing the both "both sides are bad" bit.
His defenders are doing the exact same thing BTW.They're saying oh yeah Jon's a dumbass but destiny/liberals/sjws are just as bad!
His defenders are doing the exact same thing BTW.They're saying oh yeah Jon's a dumbass but destiny/liberals/sjws are just as bad!
ISee
Member
Of course, the earth is flat by the way.
I know you weren't serious, also there was no moon landing.
Candescence
Member
Well, if "demographic invasion" is what he's worried about, I suppose that's karma for invading someone else's land, killing the natives and planting a flag there, on top of kidnapping innocent people from across the ocean for the sake of enslaving them. I have no sympathy for paranoid white people.
I liked Jon's content, but fucking hell, man. All I can really do is shake my head.
I liked Jon's content, but fucking hell, man. All I can really do is shake my head.
yeah that one NBA star told me it was true and I looked it up on www.realscienceagainstfakenews.com. Checks out.
Where I worked they have this thing called the "2 Minute Rule" meaning that your opponent is expected to make their point in 2 minutes or less, without being cut off, before you can state your opposition.
If anything Jon's going to doubledown on what he believes to be true because he didn't have the opportunity to express his points in a good way. He'll justify his loss of the debate as being shouted down at, instead of reflecting on the merit and truths of his beliefs.
rakkadakka
Member
Accidental Courtesy is a movie that I think more people need to watch. Racism has always been around and it's not going away anytime soon.
What we need is a way to reach out to people and not make it about well this huge monolith of people hate you for these views so go find support in he waiting arms of the alt-right.
I'm pretty sure someone talked with him on twitter and then immediately on twitch. If you're wondering why everyone who has a problem with jontron's views haven't reached out to him, that video is pretty indiciative of the response they'd expect to get.
Blame it on tone stanning when "ya boi" can't handle talking like a man.
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