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Ghost in the Shell bombs at the box office
- Thread starter Korey
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ElBoxyBrown
Banned
F8 is coming and Beauty and the Beast is still dominating the box office and people's attention. It's too late.
When you say a movie was not made in earnest, then you direct that to the people who actually made the movie, not the people who funded it.
Indeed, it was a very much an earnest attempted at a movie but they just couldn't get a hold of the story and the movie suffered because of that.
If this movie had had the kind of mind-blowing visuals and special effects that the Doctor Strange trailer had, I imagine it would have done a lot better. Even Lucy looked more interesting from a spectacle standpoint. The trailers for this was just ScarJo shooting people and doing a wall-run.
Elegant Weapon
Member
Hollywood productions tend to paint by numbers formulas that force white leads in basically everything, even biopics like Cheadel's Miles Davis film. The overall conventions of these movies are tired and uninspired, not just the casting.
People act like SJW critiques teamed up and spewed pure venom in Iron Fist reviews, but the fact is, when you're in the entertainment business making a boring show that delivers little new and does even less things well, that in itself is damning.
This formula of having a relatively popular yet overall obscure franchise and taking out the most interesting parts is a formula that Hollywood will continue. And when these films fail to make up their budgets or actually impress critiques like, they'll blame the political climate, as if anti-white sentiment somehow is the difference between the acclaim and disdain between shows like Daredevil and Iron Fist.
I get a kick out of Peele delivering a original narrative with no big name actor or even white protagonists that makes a bunch of money, while lazy ass blockbusters force drab white leads of questionable fame and get to make the same excuses they made for the last film they make that bombs
People act like SJW critiques teamed up and spewed pure venom in Iron Fist reviews, but the fact is, when you're in the entertainment business making a boring show that delivers little new and does even less things well, that in itself is damning.
This formula of having a relatively popular yet overall obscure franchise and taking out the most interesting parts is a formula that Hollywood will continue. And when these films fail to make up their budgets or actually impress critiques like, they'll blame the political climate, as if anti-white sentiment somehow is the difference between the acclaim and disdain between shows like Daredevil and Iron Fist.
I get a kick out of Peele delivering a original narrative with no big name actor or even white protagonists that makes a bunch of money, while lazy ass blockbusters force drab white leads of questionable fame and get to make the same excuses they made for the last film they make that bombs
The Artisan
Member
what?
You honestly think casting a Japanese actress would have made this movie do any better? The days of the Matrix style movies are done. Very few movies that are built off of anime do well either. The trailers made this movie look too weird. I would rather go see Logan again tham have to watch this. The little push this film had was with ScarJo who after Lucy and the Avengers was seen as a bankable actress.
Z..
Member
I saw the film twice...
Not only can it be called a cash grab it's quite honestly one of the least inspired takes on world building I've seen come out of a cyberpunk film. It's pretty in a flashy uninspired way but calling it gorgeous is ridiculous.
Go watch only god forgives and, as shit as the plot gets, you'll understand what gorgeous actually means. This is corporate studio crap trying hard to ape someone else's style an pulling it off only in the most insipid unsatisfying way possible.
As bad as warcraft was with a barely known cast it still made hundreds of mil. Can you say the same for gits?
The Artisan
Member
maybe not, but the only way to give lesser known actors into the know is by giving them a fucking chance. whitewashing is feeding the problem
TDLink
Member
There's different expectations on a movie like Get Out. It absolutely Is a huge success but the budget is much much lower. If GITS was at a similar budget these opening numbers would be great.
lol, but it's not like hollywood will learn
Even critics who didn't like the movie talk about the beautiful visuals.
From RT:
the praise for the visuals is the one constant across all reviews this movie has gotten.
If you honestly don't think this movie looks good, then I don't know what else I can say to you, we obviously have a completely different view on what good visuals mean.
This is a very good point.
radios shipping overview
Member
Yeah, that's one good takeaway.
Another is that hopefully Hollywood will stop trying to adapt anime before something really hits it big and we're drowning in a sea of anime adaptations.
"Hey! Weren't you in that shitty DBZ movie? Here's another chance!"
Asians should be casted in movies that AREN'T Asian to get a chance. I mean sure, if it's anime then they should star in it if it's an Asian role but if we're talking about general Hollywood then we need Asians in roles where they don't play Asians.
No, I think calling it one of the most diverse films in recent memory is absurd and kind of hilarious.
cartographer
Member
Fast 8 hasn't come out yet. April 14.
And it will affect GitS when Fast 8 all but boots it from theaters.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Fast and Furious is more diverse and the main characters aren't just background decoration.
The Artisan
Member
hey, by all means. glenn's character from the walking dead had very little to do with the fact that he was korean.
but um...yeah i would like to see black, asian, brown (which falls under asian anyway), arab, latino...all races have equal chances in leads, non racial roles.
have you seen master of none by aziz ansari? the episode indian actors sums up my thoughts perfectly
cartographer
Member
That's sort of the issue. They can't even get roles to play Asian characters, much less ones with no defined or less defined ethnicities.
Shouta
Member
The movie was pretty much destined to bomb. The fact the movie's script isn't interesting and the directing fails to capture the attention of the audience despite the great visuals is really the key problem. They even had a plot that could was coherent despite pulling from all of GITS but it doesn't matter if it isn't engaging.
Everything else was just tossing gasoline on the fire, lol.
Everything else was just tossing gasoline on the fire, lol.
It's pretty clear that the people calling the shots thought that 4 members of Section 9, a couple cool fight scenes, and some cool CGI backgrounds are what make Ghost in the Shell what it is.
Very little philosophy or geopolitics are in this film, multiple characters are ignored, and they have the gall to try and justify their whitewashing in film.
It's a mediocre film with good CG and mediocre writing. I have to assume that either they didn't understand GitS or they didn't care enough to be completely faithful to it.
I know this is blasphemy to ScarJo fans, but I think she comes across emotionally flat in a lot of her movies, with some exceptions like Lost in Translation. I know that's kind of her thing, but it doesn't always serve her movies well, especially when cast as the lead.
This would've been a perfect movie for a breakout performance for an international actress. Give someone else a shot.
This would've been a perfect movie for a breakout performance for an international actress. Give someone else a shot.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
That episode of Master of None wasn't condemning Indian actors who choose stereotypical roles either. His friend in that episode played a cliche comedic customer service call center guy in Transformers. Aziz understands that roles outside the stereotypes that don't rely on accents is important, but also recognizes that those roles are rare and virtually non-existant. The problem is, if you don't take roles that actually rely on your race, what are you left with?
The Major doesn't rely on race, but she's white.
The Ancient One is an Asian stereotype in the comic, and she's still white.
TDLink
Member
In terms of big budget releases, fast and furious is definitely more diverse. In terms of Asian diversity this movie does a pretty good job for a Hollywood film. I do feel that will glossed over because the lead isn't also Asian.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Asked and answered. It's more about identity theft and corporate villainy than anything to do with existentialism.
Edit: My take, though? The film is absolutely beautiful and worth seeing in theaters. It's not smart, but it's a great show.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I don't think there are any closers these days. I haven't heard anyone saying they're going to watch a movie because of a specific actor. Those people still exist but I honestly hear no one say it these days.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Sumio Mondo
Member
It's okay, there's more cyberpunk coming out this year anyway (Blade Runner 2). I miss the kind of cyberpunk films that have that grainy, dirty look to them, this film just looked too shiny and clean.
lightskintwin
Banned
Bruh, I get a kick out of Tyler Perry laughing all the way to the bank making low budget mediocre to bad films with Black leads that perform better domestically than a lot of the bigger budget films with White leads.
pokeystaples
Banned
Will definitely catch it on a rental or when it is on HBO go or something, but couldn't bring myself to pay cash money for it. This was a "The Gang Votes With Their Wallets" movie for me and my group of friends.
On the subject of whitewashing in Western Entertainment, this specific debate in relation to Ghost In The Shell and the context that surrounds the project has proved to be something of a particularly tender subject with me.
About a year ago, a thread was posted around this very topic (specifically, in relation to Johannsons casting in the lead role in Ghost in the Shell) on this very forum which promptly lead to a similar discussion on the ongoing trend of white-washing in cinema which I readily engaged in. At the time, in looking back to my own attitude within the discussion, I can recognize that I actually acted painfully arrogant in regards to fully understanding the various issues involved fully recognizing the need for greater racial diversity in film, but at the same time, also fully sympathizing with the prevailing mindset within the film-industry that, undoubtedly, only leads to Asian actors getting short-changed when it comes to attaining more prominent roles in both film and television. In essence, in my ascribing to tried and tested Star Power formula which I felt so much of the film industry had come to revolve around, I felt that because there were so very few bankable, A-List Asian actors within the film industry that purely from a business point of view, it was hard for me to actively resent and decry studios for making those kind of casting decisions. I reasoned that I could understand the reasoning behind a studio hiring a white actress over an Asian actress, if their basis for doing so purely amounted to simply slapping the biggest name they could possibly get on the poster as a means of luring more people into the theatre, and that such a motivation existed outside the sphere of any kind of racist bias.
Thankfully however, through the benefit of time allowing me better perspective....but more importantly still...upon reading the numerous discussions that have taken place around this debate within this community alone Ive since come to realise that not only was that perspective dangerously arrogant, it was also exactly the kind of attitude that only helps to encourage the kind of thinking that continues to push back against diversity in film and television and which excludes greater racial representation in the various types of media I continue to enjoy. Sometimes when it comes to ugly trends within the film industry, apathy can be the worst response....even in reaction to those trends that might not affect me directly as an individual.
Because yes, the numerous critics of Johannson's casting at the time for Ghost In The Shell were absolutely right on this. The studio was wrong. And ultimately, I think they still would have been wrong, even if this particular film proved to be an enormous box office success.
For many working actors who happen to belong to any kind of minority group working within the entertainment industry today (in this particular case, Asian actors) .I think, it often proves to be a struggle to secure roles that dont specifically revolve around their ethnicity. And as such, those particular performers arent afforded the same wealth of opportunities that white actors in the West continue to enjoy, affording them far less freedom and flexibility in terms of their careers in comparison to their white contemporaries. With this in mind, when a precious opportunity opens up that specifically calls for a minority to take on a leading role in a particularly high profile project it should always an opportunity that should be seized readily. In this instance, in granting minority actors those kind of opportunities, you not only help to introduce more racial and cultural diversity into an industry that so sorely requires it but even in a more practical sense, it will be a means that will allow minority actors to attain far greater visibility in terms of their careers, helping to create more bankable and identifiable stars which the studio wont need to be so resistant to hiring in the future. It's a means of breaking the cycle that the film industry (and to a lesser extent, the television industry) seems to be so terrified to break out of.
Furthermore though, in terms of doing our part, when it comes to these particular casting decisions in relation to studios choosing to hire white actors over other actors belonging to different minoritys (like with Ghost In The Shell, or indeed with Doctor Strange or something like The Last Airbender) I think its perhaps equally important that people make a conscious effort to support minority actors, as well as any projects they might be actively involved in, as a means of helping the entertainment industry to view those actors as much more of a risk, in comparison to the predominantly white actors they view to be more bankable leading stars. If money is all the studios understand, perhaps people should use their money to send a message. And if one studio gets the message, perhaps the rest will fall in line, helping to gradually phase out the industrys compulsive need to hand over valuable minority roles to white actors at almost each and every turn. Perhaps then hopefully, the issue of white-washing will prove to be a thing of the past, as we these industries can move on to creating a far more interesting and racially diverse cultural landscape in regards to broader racial representation.
If anything good has come out of this Ghost In The Shell controversy, I would say how that it's encouraged these debates about the prevalent issue of white-washing in the entertainment industry, allowing many minority groups to give voice to their growing concerns about the issue. In doing so, these subsequent discussions have helped to enlighten people like myself....who were once adopted much more arrogant and dismissive attitudes about this particular issue. And although that certainly might not be viewed as progress enough in regards to helping the film and television industry move past the recurring problem of white-washing...I think I would still view that as a positive, if admittedly small, change all the same, even if there's still so much more progress to be made.
Sorry about the essay, or if I'm literally just repeating the same points everyone else has made in this discussion in the most ineloquent manner imaginable. Please forgive me.
About a year ago, a thread was posted around this very topic (specifically, in relation to Johannsons casting in the lead role in Ghost in the Shell) on this very forum which promptly lead to a similar discussion on the ongoing trend of white-washing in cinema which I readily engaged in. At the time, in looking back to my own attitude within the discussion, I can recognize that I actually acted painfully arrogant in regards to fully understanding the various issues involved fully recognizing the need for greater racial diversity in film, but at the same time, also fully sympathizing with the prevailing mindset within the film-industry that, undoubtedly, only leads to Asian actors getting short-changed when it comes to attaining more prominent roles in both film and television. In essence, in my ascribing to tried and tested Star Power formula which I felt so much of the film industry had come to revolve around, I felt that because there were so very few bankable, A-List Asian actors within the film industry that purely from a business point of view, it was hard for me to actively resent and decry studios for making those kind of casting decisions. I reasoned that I could understand the reasoning behind a studio hiring a white actress over an Asian actress, if their basis for doing so purely amounted to simply slapping the biggest name they could possibly get on the poster as a means of luring more people into the theatre, and that such a motivation existed outside the sphere of any kind of racist bias.
Thankfully however, through the benefit of time allowing me better perspective....but more importantly still...upon reading the numerous discussions that have taken place around this debate within this community alone Ive since come to realise that not only was that perspective dangerously arrogant, it was also exactly the kind of attitude that only helps to encourage the kind of thinking that continues to push back against diversity in film and television and which excludes greater racial representation in the various types of media I continue to enjoy. Sometimes when it comes to ugly trends within the film industry, apathy can be the worst response....even in reaction to those trends that might not affect me directly as an individual.
Because yes, the numerous critics of Johannson's casting at the time for Ghost In The Shell were absolutely right on this. The studio was wrong. And ultimately, I think they still would have been wrong, even if this particular film proved to be an enormous box office success.
For many working actors who happen to belong to any kind of minority group working within the entertainment industry today (in this particular case, Asian actors) .I think, it often proves to be a struggle to secure roles that dont specifically revolve around their ethnicity. And as such, those particular performers arent afforded the same wealth of opportunities that white actors in the West continue to enjoy, affording them far less freedom and flexibility in terms of their careers in comparison to their white contemporaries. With this in mind, when a precious opportunity opens up that specifically calls for a minority to take on a leading role in a particularly high profile project it should always an opportunity that should be seized readily. In this instance, in granting minority actors those kind of opportunities, you not only help to introduce more racial and cultural diversity into an industry that so sorely requires it but even in a more practical sense, it will be a means that will allow minority actors to attain far greater visibility in terms of their careers, helping to create more bankable and identifiable stars which the studio wont need to be so resistant to hiring in the future. It's a means of breaking the cycle that the film industry (and to a lesser extent, the television industry) seems to be so terrified to break out of.
Furthermore though, in terms of doing our part, when it comes to these particular casting decisions in relation to studios choosing to hire white actors over other actors belonging to different minoritys (like with Ghost In The Shell, or indeed with Doctor Strange or something like The Last Airbender) I think its perhaps equally important that people make a conscious effort to support minority actors, as well as any projects they might be actively involved in, as a means of helping the entertainment industry to view those actors as much more of a risk, in comparison to the predominantly white actors they view to be more bankable leading stars. If money is all the studios understand, perhaps people should use their money to send a message. And if one studio gets the message, perhaps the rest will fall in line, helping to gradually phase out the industrys compulsive need to hand over valuable minority roles to white actors at almost each and every turn. Perhaps then hopefully, the issue of white-washing will prove to be a thing of the past, as we these industries can move on to creating a far more interesting and racially diverse cultural landscape in regards to broader racial representation.
If anything good has come out of this Ghost In The Shell controversy, I would say how that it's encouraged these debates about the prevalent issue of white-washing in the entertainment industry, allowing many minority groups to give voice to their growing concerns about the issue. In doing so, these subsequent discussions have helped to enlighten people like myself....who were once adopted much more arrogant and dismissive attitudes about this particular issue. And although that certainly might not be viewed as progress enough in regards to helping the film and television industry move past the recurring problem of white-washing...I think I would still view that as a positive, if admittedly small, change all the same, even if there's still so much more progress to be made.
Sorry about the essay, or if I'm literally just repeating the same points everyone else has made in this discussion in the most ineloquent manner imaginable. Please forgive me.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Osukaa
Member
I saw it this weekend on IMAX 3D and I can say that I enjoyed it. Id score it a 7 or 6 1/2 out of 10. Not the best but it was enjoyable to me and I say this as a fan of the GitS anime.
I do feel like some parts could have been done better and they could have done more with the material they had but meh wasn't expecting too much of a Hollywood version of it. I would have loved more character development between The Major, Batou and the whole crew and I feel like the wasted the potential of Beat Takeshi.
But as I said I walked out of the theater thinking hmmm not bad.. not great but not bad... I have no idea if any sequels will ever happen but if they did I'd be there.
I do feel like some parts could have been done better and they could have done more with the material they had but meh wasn't expecting too much of a Hollywood version of it. I would have loved more character development between The Major, Batou and the whole crew and I feel like the wasted the potential of Beat Takeshi.
But as I said I walked out of the theater thinking hmmm not bad.. not great but not bad... I have no idea if any sequels will ever happen but if they did I'd be there.
tearsintherain
Member
Saw this today at my matinee, ended up costing me under $2 with a $5 ticket - if you use the code GALAXY or RETAIL on atomtickets.com it takes $5 off, so a $4-6 matinee ends up being super cheap.
If you are a huge cyberpunk fan I'd say watch this movie, yeah everyone is right about a dumbed down plot and stuff but the visuals are stunning and the movie is simple and easy to follow. Its disappointing that they didn't make a better movie, but I enjoyed all the "good side" actors (Batou and the japanese guy who runs the division were AWESOME), ScarJo was passable, and the future world is really great to just stare at for 90 minutes.
Its hard not to see how this movie won't do really well in China so I think thats likely going to save it box office wise, which is an interesting trend and maybe a bit worrying for film makers too.
If you are a huge cyberpunk fan I'd say watch this movie, yeah everyone is right about a dumbed down plot and stuff but the visuals are stunning and the movie is simple and easy to follow. Its disappointing that they didn't make a better movie, but I enjoyed all the "good side" actors (Batou and the japanese guy who runs the division were AWESOME), ScarJo was passable, and the future world is really great to just stare at for 90 minutes.
Its hard not to see how this movie won't do really well in China so I think thats likely going to save it box office wise, which is an interesting trend and maybe a bit worrying for film makers too.
Goldenmoney
Member
I am someone who had no idea what ghost in the shell was until they announced this movie. I gotta say for as much advertising as I saw for this movie, I still have next to zero interest in watching it. Scarlett Johannson in skin tight clothing was literally the only thing that looked interesting.
On one hand, I guess I agree, but on the other hand, it's so depressing that we think like this. For all we know, Hollywood might think "Hey, it could've been worse!" and continue to whitewash.
It's dumb that minority actors basically have to hope they star in a bunch of successful movies/shows, while being tied to one big stinker means they'll likely never get a chance again. Generally speaking, they should be allowed that same benefit of the doubt​ that white actors tend to get. Meanwhile Johannson will be just fine...
Stop.
Also sad that we basically only trust Hollywood to maybe, just maybe, not fuck up anime adaptations where the main characters are white.
Soldiussnaku
Member
This encapsulates my feelings as well. I have little hope Hollywood will learn from this mistake but anything to improve Asian American representation is good even if it costs the live action version if GITS.
Oh and that God awful ending puts a nail in its coffin. Terrible terrible way if handling things.
Tbh,imho, not a huge loss since we'll always have the anime anyway.
They're gonna fuck it up. Don't have any expectations.
I didn't for GitS and I was still dissapointed.
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