Support NeoGAF

[Harmen]

So a good power boost but one primarily aimed at playing One games at 4k and possibly 60 fps. I am happy with that. A generational leap at a premium (600+) price would've hurt this generation and especially the Xbox brand in my opinion. Consoles are mass consumer entry devices for gaming.

Native 4k at a low entry price is a good offer in this day and age, where more and more people are getting 4k screens. I don't think this will be a gamechanger for Xbox, but I do think it will help it remain a healthy brand and a good competitor for Sony. I hope it is 400 dollars because I feel that is a sweetspot in terms of what consumer would want to pay for it, but my technical knowledge is too limited to know if that price would be realistic or not.

 

[Matt]

Of course specs wise it doesn't compare to a 1080, but they showed a game running at the same performance as it.

Whatever tuning Ms made to improve the design of the console clearly worked on this game.

Dude, it wasn't the same code, and them both running at a locked framerate doesn't mean the hardware is equal (or that the game was even running equally).

Stop with this argument, it's silly.

 

[wesleyshark]

I'm so happy for DigitalFoundry.

Same. This is great for them

 

[Mr Croft]

Let's see...I'll have to do 2 separate categories...

Boos:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Eva Lovia
Ps4 Pro: Channel Preston
Scorpio: Jayden James

Butt:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Channel Preston
Ps4 Pro: Eva Lovia
Scorpio: Alexis Texas

are you content now?

No Asa akira no list

Man, if this thing launches at $399 and actually delivers that level of performance, I'm going to be laughing so hard at all of these naysayers as I walk into my store and buy one.

Lol that makes two of us

 

[UpUpDownDown]

So I'm guessing no box, name or price?

 

[WadeitOut]

Let's see...I'll have to do 2 separate categories...

Boos:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Eva Lovia
Ps4 Pro: Channel Preston
Scorpio: Jayden James

Butt:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Channel Preston
Ps4 Pro: Eva Lovia
Scorpio: Alexis Texas

are you content now?

Do it with GDP participants

 

[curiouscharles]

1. I hope this custom stuff on the cpu helps so that the cpu doesnt bottleneck
2. I hope the cooling solution is good enough to sustain those crazy clocks
3. I hope freesync is possible if I have a monitor with hdmi 2.0 and freesync (like with a normal rx 480)

1. seems like they focused precisely on that [time will tell though]
2. well, it must be... unless the thing melts when playing games? [time will tell though]
3. no idea. [time will tell though]

 

[shandy706]

So is 6TF Good?

On a pc is 6TF good?

Yes, it's good.

It's the high end of previous gen cards, mid tier current cards.

Closed systems tend to punch above their weight too. See PS4 first party games' visuals.

 

[Podge293]

Can't see this being less than $499

Unless MS take a gamble that software sales swing massively in their favour I agree.

But if they've data backing the above, they could take a significant loss on it if it's viable

 

[paulogy]

Watching these DF videos, I realize this approach to a reveal is a pretty sneaky workaround. If MS was going to talk about this system they'd be forced to mention the PS4 and PS4 Pro in comparisons, if they didn't want to only reference the Xbox One S.

 

[Vinc]

All in all, I think this turned out to be a better initial "reveal" than the conference approach. Digital Foundry's analysis is the thing everyone's waiting for when it comes to specs talk, so it's great to see MS acknowledge that. I think it was a smart move, and I'm frankly happy to see DF's work getting increasingly noticed in the industry.

 

[Madness]

Can't see this being less than $499

If they offer an Elite controller with, then maybe. But I think $399 for the 1TB model and they can do some damage with it this holiday season. $499 would just be too much. I would rather just ride out with Xbox One S and maybe look into a PC rather than shell out $500+

 

[Syrus]

b-b-b-but why?

It just goes straight to your receiver doesn't it?

Receivers that cant do 4k or HDR

I want to know abouy hdmi audio out too

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Of course specs wise it doesn't compare to a 1080, but they showed a game running at the same performance as it.

Whatever tuning Ms made to improve the design of the console clearly worked on this game.

Did they do comparisons? Same game, same settings, same cpu/motherboard/ram, etc but just different GPU, and the Scorpio's GPU kept up with the 1080 at the same unlocked ram numbers, and resolution? That's the way you measure if a game is running at the same performance. Otherwise they could have built the game to run very efficiently for that hardware.

I would love the RX 480 to be the same as a 1080, but I have to pony up some serious cash to get there.

I'm going to watch the videos soon. I doubt Digital Foundry compared it to a 1080 though.

 

[MCD]

So I'm guessing no box, name or price?

Richard saw the box and said folks will be plenty pleased.

They are saving it for E3.

 

[WadeitOut]

Did they do comparisons? Same game, same settings, same cpu/motherboard/ram, etc but just different GPU, and the Scorpio's GPU kept up with the 1080 at the same unlocked ram numbers, and resolution? That's the way you measure if a game is running at the same performance. Otherwise they could have built the game to run very efficiently for that hardware.

I would love the RX 480 to be the same as a 1080, but I have to pony up some serious cash to get there.

I'm going to watch the videos soon. I doubt Digital Foundry compared it to a 1080 though.

Watch the Forza part of the video

 

[mrklaw]

Matt is solid, but Scorpio not being Zen should have been obvious to everyone. It was wholly unrealistic to expect it inside Scorpio in any capacity. The timelines didn't line up, and AMD themselves shot that down.

I hope it was obvious to everyone, and zen was just one of those things people hope for but don't really expect.

This looks like a great box and seems to be pushing things harder than Sony did with the ps pro and from many different angles - similar size APU but clocked much higher with better cooling (hope its quiet..), more ram for better textures, more bandwidth to support that, directX in hardware sounds interesting. Basically customising and pushing in all the areas they can considering the practical limitations of still being tied to a 16nm process and likely die limits of around 350mm2

 

[Gaminar]

Console Power Levels as per DBZ Human Characters

PS Vita: Baba
Switch: Yajirobi
Xbox One: Master Roshi
PS4: Chi Chi
PS4P: Yamcha
Scorpio: Tien
PC: Krillin

 

[SlimySnake]

Seems cool.
As a Ps4 pro owner this is kinda what I wanted the Pro to be.

Still, unless they bring some big exclusives I doubt I'll even consider getting one. If I owned a scoprio right now I still wouldn't use it unltil like september of this year because of all the great exclusives (and multiplat with PC) games on Ps4

I love my Pro for what it is. I wanted it to be affordable first and foremost. i wouldve loved the same CPU and bandwidth improvements MS has crammed in this beast but while i cant play Horizon at 60 fps, i am perfectly happy with a super smooth 60 fps in shooters like BF1, CoD and Titanfall. All at a crazy high resolution.

Seeing as how MS is one year late to the party, I expected them to have these improvements and i am glad they delivered. I still wont be buying it because my OG Xbox is collecting dust but i am happy to see MS going deep and customizing their console instead of just shipping a PC in a box.

 

[The Artisan]

Can't see this being less than $499

why not?

 

[link1201]

Just make the next Halo game extra pretty and I'll be happy.


Does the Witcher 3 use the scalable bit that will be utilized out of the box or no? I still need to do the dlc stuff.

 

[Obliterator]

All in all, I think this turned out to be a better initial "reveal" than the conference approach. Digital Foundry's analysis is the thing everyone's waiting for when it comes to specs talk, so it's great to see MS acknowledge that. I think it was a smart move, and I'm frankly happy to see DF's work getting increasingly noticed in the industry.

100% agreed. This was a much better approach than the PS4 Pro conference, which I think pretty much everyone agrees was pretty lame.

This was just straight to the point and presented in a nice simple to understand fashion. Mad props to Digital Foundery on this one

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Can you say if it has an extra HDMI output for audio? like current 4K BluRay Players?

b-b-b-but why?

It just goes straight to your receiver doesn't it?

If your AVR is older than a 2015 model, it likely can't pass BT.2020/HDR over HDMI. Hence, the need for manufacturers to put an additional port on UHD players so that users can run one cable directly to their display and the other to their AVR for audio.

That...seems like a stretch for a video game console to me, though. But who knows? I would have said the same thing about having an HDMI input on a console prior to the XB1 being unveiled...

 

[SEGAvangelist]

What's funny is the titles of threads I joked about in the previous thread aren't being created here but instead happen to being showing up in articles from major publications.

 

[Ehker]

why not?

Yeh, this seems made for less than $499.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeh, this seems made for less than $499.

idk tech shit like the most of the people in this thread but a lot of them have said mS can make it to 400.

 

[Primethius]

100% agreed. This was a much better approach than the PS4 Pro conference, which I think pretty much everyone agrees was pretty lame.

This was just straight to the point and presented in a nice simple to understand fashion. Mad props to Digital Foundery on this one

I think this was pretty terrible actually. The pro one likewise, for different reasons.

This is more like a, who are you appealing to? The core? Okay.

 

[Mass Appeal]

I don't see this being over $399 and I would put money on that. But I gamble a lot so take that for what it's worth.

 

[Markoman]

Do it with GDP participants

Sorry, can't do that. I've specialized in unnecessary knowlege. ;P

 

[LukasTaves]

Dude, it wasn't the same code, and them both running at a locked framerate doesn't mean the hardware is equal (or that the game was even running equally).

Stop with this argument, it's silly.

It's not the same code indeed, it was a stress test on Scorpio with full lod and complete physics for all cars, something that apparently the full games optmizes.

And the test was: Even a 1070 doesn't match the level of performance they showed on scorpio with this game, only a 1080 matched.

Keep in mind that this particular demo only used about 55-65% of the gpu time according do DF, and Forza 6 on Xbone uses about 90%.

So please, you stop. You are the one trying to infer I'm saying scorpio is a 1080 equivalent as I clearly saying it matched the performance for this test.

 

[massucci]

I admit I expect at least a Puma cpu. Though it's the same cpu it is a bit faster with 2,5 Mhz. Now we know why MS stayed so silent about the cpu side. I presumed right.

 

[Complicated]

Now people are claiming Scorpio is stronger than a 1070 and also ( lol ) a 1080 GTX?
Da fuck is going on here?

Probably coming from the comparison DF did with Forza Apex. A 1080 was the only GPU capable of keeping constant 60fps which the Scorpio was doing with room to spare on their Forza 6 tech port. It doesn't mean it is better just that it's clearly punching well above its weight in terms of running the Forza engine as most people would expect with all the custom solutions they're using to reduce bottlenecks.

 

[hooligan]

Forza 6 running on PC ultra settings at 4k and 60fps still only utilizes 88% GPU. Wow...

 

[Papacheeks]

Do you realize who you're quoting? Of course he's for real lol. Doesn't make it any less hilarious though.

LOL.

Yea I forgot who I was talking too for a minute.

 

[family_guy]

Unless MS take a gamble that software sales swing massively in their favour I agree.

But if they've data backing the above, they could take a significant loss on it if it's viable

They should take the loss if it's a new console generation for them. They should sell it at a profit if it's just an Xbox One upgrade.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

It's an optimized game on Pc too, but you are wrong if you are saying they had specific scorpio optimizations on this test.

They ported in 2 days, and largely relied on the dx12 co processor to optimize the performance.

At least that's what Ms told DF. They could be lying though, but I don't think they would on a tech reveal.

I've been around for enough console generations to know that when something seems off, it's usually because it's off. We saw similar claims earlier when the ps4 launched and the 750Ti with an i3 outperformed the ps4 in 3rd party games. Secondly, there is no way a 6tf card is outperforming a card that boosts to 10tf. Please, let's stop perpetuating fantasies. It's like the ps4 launch all over again.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

For the love of God can anyone clarify whether or not 6tf is good?

It's about equivalent to the PS4 in 2013.

Crazy that its stronger than a GTX1070. Thing sounds like a fucking beast. I probably am not going to get one at launch, mainly because I imagine its going to cost a pretty penny, but I have friends that are going to jump all over this thing.

... It's not.

Now people are claiming Scorpio is stronger than a 1070 and also ( lol ) a 1080 GTX?
Da fuck is going on here?

Buying into the "console optimization"/"coding to the medal" hype that's largely been irrelevant for a long time now.

 

[Spasm]

Does the PS4P's BD ROM support BDXL at all? Some FHD games are already flirting with BD's 50GB limit. I would imagine, as a UHD player, the Scorpio's drive would have to support BDXL. It'd be interesting if publishers included UHD textures on all that extra disc space.

 

[Okami Haundo]

All in all, I think this turned out to be a better initial "reveal" than the conference approach. Digital Foundry's analysis is the thing everyone's waiting for when it comes to specs talk, so it's great to see MS acknowledge that. I think it was a smart move, and I'm frankly happy to see DF's work getting increasingly noticed in the industry.

I absolutely agree! Microsoft very clearly took some notes from Sony's PS4 Pro reveal and decided that a dedicated event just doesn't fit. I'm not sure if it's been confirmed or not, but I can't imagine they'll give us details on price/release date until E3.

 

[Obliterator]

I think this was pretty terrible actually. The pro one likewise, for different reasons.

This is more like a, who are you appealing to? The core? Okay.

Um yes? MS have said since Day 1 this isn't a mass market device and for the core audience. They sold / explained it to the exact people they expect to buy it.

 

[Papacheeks]

I've been around for enough console generations to know that when something seems off, it's usually because it's off. We saw similar claims earlier when the ps4 launched and the 750Ti with an i3 outperformed the ps4 in 3rd party games. Secondly, there is no way a 6tf card is outperforming a card that boosts to 10tf. Please, let's stop perpetuating fantasies. It's like the ps4 launch all over again.

But it's too just much fun to watch the chaos though.

 

[Bioshocker]

So we can forget about 399. This is going to be 499. I had hopes for a little less then that, but fuck it. I'll get it anyway.

 

[Spades]

We live in a world where the .53 teraflop difference between PS4 and Xbox One was "massive", "objectively better", and "night and day", but the 1.88 teraflop difference between Scorpio and Pro is only slight and will probably result in no discernable difference in graphical quality.

I'm... I'm not surprised.

Quoting for truth.

 

[icespide]

Does the PS4P's BD ROM support BDXL at all? Some FHD games are already flirting with BD's 50GB limit. I would imagine, as a UHD player, the Scorpio's drive would have to support BDXL. It'd be interesting if publishers included UHD textures on all that extra disc space.

this is a non starter because games still need to work on the OG Xbox One, unless they decide to ship 2 different discs in a box

 

[Mysterious]

So is this stronger than PS4 Pro? Is it actually called Xbox Scorpio?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Btw, Jeff Kampman from Techreport thinks the "Dx12 built into hardware" sounds like a Polaris feature.

https://twitter.com/jkampman_tr/status/850032387597664257

 

[Kayant]

It's an optimized game on Pc too, but you are wrong if you are saying they had specific scorpio optimizations on this test.

They ported in 2 days, and largely relied on the dx12 co processor to optimize the performance.

At least that's what Ms told DF. They could be lying though, but I don't think they would on a tech reveal.

It still doesn't mean much when you're getting this kind of performance from things like the 970/390 in the same game

To be fair the forza 6 engine is very fast and seems to scale very well. Even the gtx 970 (~3.5tflops) and the r9 390 (~5tflops) were already able to boost forza on PC to 2560x1440 on pc ultra settings, only the addition of 8xMSAA was able to bring performance down in some cases. And to be clear: 8xMSAA is ludicrous insane and extremely gpu heavy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Jgf6rtEg8

Just bringing things a bit into perspective because the 66% GPU usage on a 4k render with xbox one settings is impressive, but the engine plays a big role here too.

Thinking you getting anywhere near 1070 performance atm yet alone 1080 is silly.

 

[Hero]

That was a terrible way to drum up excitement. Not even one game shown off besides a single screenshot.

 

[Ehker]

So we can forget about 399. This is going to be 499. I had hopes for a little less then that, but fuck it. I'll get it anyway.

Why though? The memory and GPU combo add $100?

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Since MS tends to price down in Canada, I can look forward to a cheap Scorpio in late 2018.