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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?

arhra

arhra

Member
Yautja_Warrior said:
If all Scorpio games get downsampling, it seems like they will, then maybe Sony will make it mandatory on Pro or maybe developers will just start to do it, as they will be already doing it on Scorpio.
Click to expand...
If the Pro still requires manual implementation of downsampling, Scorpio won't make any difference at all - on Scorpio it's a system-level function, and will happen automatically on a 1080p screen for any game with >1080p resolution without any developer input whatsoever.

Sony basically just need to copy Microsoft's solution here - implement it system-wide in firmware, and mandate that any resolution/performance options a game has be presented to the user, not auto-flipped based on what screen is connected.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
arhra said:
If the Pro still requires manual implementation of downsampling, Scorpio won't make any difference at all - on Scorpio it's a system-level function, and will happen automatically on a 1080p screen for any game with >1080p resolution without any developer input whatsoever.

Sony basically just need to copy Microsoft's solution here - implement it system-wide in firmware, and mandate that any resolution/performance options a game has be presented to the user, not auto-flipped based on what screen is connected.
Click to expand...

I agree that would be the best option and hopefully that happens but if developers have games running at 4k or whatever checkerboard resolution, surely it shouldn't be hard / much work to make it supersample down to 1080p too.
 
G

Giftofgab24

Member
PhantomThief said:
I mean even if MS has been saying the right things and things are looking great for Scorpio hardware wise, they haven't released an interesting exclusive in years. Maybe QB but that wasnt even all that great ( or so I read ).

So they need to step it up in the games department, you know the stuff that actually matters.
Click to expand...

In the last few years I've enjoyed Ryse, Halo 5, Gears 4, FM6, Forza Horizon 2 and 3, Ori and the Blind Forest, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Recore, Halo Wars 2, and killer instinct. Those are all Microsoft exclusives. You might not like the games they put out, but me and millions of other people do.

On topic: Sony needs to implement this in their OS software. Devs aren't going to spend extra time and resources if they don't have to. The vast majority of businesses wouldn't.
 
A

Ahasverus

Member
Waldo Lydecker said:
Can't we start twitterbombing Yoshida before E3 requesting systembased downsampling?
Click to expand...
Yeah that's​ our only option.

I've lost lots of Goodwill towards Digital Foundry for not even caring about this. They have the influence and the direct contact with Sony. But they don't care.
 
S

SoulClap

Member
Starting to regret shelling out the extra cash for a Pro. Should have known that Sony's pathetic support for anything other than their mainline hardware would affect the Pro as well.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
henhowc said:
hyperbole much
Click to expand...

Digital Foundry have had ample opportunity to make a big article about this and get Sony's attention.

Instead their only reference to the lack of downsampling is a brief comment in an article about a game or a video.

I've PM'd dark10x several times politely requesting Digital Foundry look into this issue as they have the tech knowhow and the industry contacts to get an answer and maybe something actually done about it.

I haven't even had the courtesy of a response. They're not interested.
 
S

Sad Affleck

Member
Vashetti said:
I've PM'd dark10x several times politely requesting Digital Foundry look into this issue as they have the tech knowhow and the industry contacts to get an answer and maybe something actually done about it.

I haven't even had the courtesy of a response. They're not interested.
Click to expand...

You are not the only one PMing the DF staff, I'm sure they get tons of messages every day with requests. You can't really expect them to answer each and every one of them.
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
As time goes on, I'm more and more believing that Sony will offer a system-wide support for downsampling.

When Pro launched, many devs supported downsampling, and then suddenly a lot of them stopped supporting this feature. Maybe they got the notice that they don't need to bother since the OS will handle that after some future update.

Big PS4 OS updates arrive at 6 month schedule, the next big one should arrive sometimes in September.
 
A

Ahasverus

Member
DieH@rd said:
As time goes on, I'm more and more believing that Sony will offer a system-wide support for downsampling.

When Pro launched, many devs supported downsampling, and then suddenly a lot of them stopped supporting this feature. Maybe they got the notice that they don't need to bother since the OS will handle that after some future update.
Click to expand...
If it's too good to be true, it isn't.
 
N

NewDust

Member
Vashetti said:
Digital Foundry have had ample opportunity to make a big article about this and get Sony's attention.

Instead their only reference to the lack of downsampling is a brief comment in an article about a game or a video.

I've PM'd dark10x several times politely requesting Digital Foundry look into this issue as they have the tech knowhow and the industry contacts to get an answer and maybe something actually done about it.

I haven't even had the courtesy of a response. They're not interested.
Click to expand...

They regularly mention this in their analysis. I'm sure they have contacted Sony about it, but haven't had a response. Let's not blame DF for what Sony (and other devs) are doing wrong. Blame Sony, and be thankful to DF that they already are bringing more attention to it, to a larger audience, than any other outlet.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Well honestly.

I don't know who is at wrong here. Horizon had downsampling, and looks great while looking so.

Don't think its a Sony mandate to not offer downsampling anymore to sell 4k TVs (sounds too farfetched) but probably a problem with downsampling that is leading to a few problems.
 
vpance

vpance

Member
Vashetti said:
Digital Foundry have had ample opportunity to make a big article about this and get Sony's attention.

Instead their only reference to the lack of downsampling is a brief comment in an article about a game or a video.

I've PM'd dark10x several times politely requesting Digital Foundry look into this issue as they have the tech knowhow and the industry contacts to get an answer and maybe something actually done about it.

I haven't even had the courtesy of a response. They're not interested.
Click to expand...

Sony probably threatened them not to talk about it 😓
 
N

Negotiator

Member
DieH@rd said:
As time goes on, I'm more and more believing that Sony will offer a system-wide support for downsampling.

When Pro launched, many devs supported downsampling, and then suddenly a lot of them stopped supporting this feature. Maybe they got the notice that they don't need to bother since the OS will handle that after some future update.

Big PS4 OS updates arrive at 6 month schedule, the next big one should arrive sometimes in September.
Click to expand...
If your speculation is true, I expect Sony to announce the next PS4 system update at E3, right after the Scorpio reveal. September is too late IMHO.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
Huzzah!

n0NGnqw.png
Click to expand...
 
Dee Dah Dave

Dee Dah Dave

Member
Vashetti said:
Play a native 1080p game. Set your PS4 to output 720p in display settings.

Your PS4 is now downsampling 1080p to 720p.

What's the performance issue?
Click to expand...

Maybe their scaling 'chip' can't deal with 4K images, so devs are having to do it manually at the cost of extra resources. Perhaps someone can clarify if the system is capable of it?
 
F

FairXchange

Member
Vashetti said:
Play a native 1080p game. Set your PS4 to output 720p in display settings.

Your PS4 is now downsampling 1080p to 720p.

What's the performance issue?
Click to expand...
Most 1800p resolution games won't be running 60fps. 4k modes tend toward 30fps, whereas 1080p retains 60fps.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
FairXchange said:
Most 1800p resolution games won't be running 60fps. 4k modes tend toward 30fps, whereas 1080p retains 60fps.
Click to expand...

TLOU used to run 1800p/60fps or 4K/30fps before Naughty Dog patched out downsampling.

But that's beside the point.

If the game is already running at 4K/1800p/1440p/checkboarded, etc. when connected to a 4K display, then why should it run any differently when feeding that image to a 1080p display?
 
G

get2sammyb

Member
DieH@rd said:
As time goes on, I'm more and more believing that Sony will offer a system-wide support for downsampling.

When Pro launched, many devs supported downsampling, and then suddenly a lot of them stopped supporting this feature. Maybe they got the notice that they don't need to bother since the OS will handle that after some future update.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think this is going to be the case, too. They need to get on it, though, and drop the update sooner rather than later.
 
N

NinjamicWZ

Banned
Vashetti said:
I've PM'd dark10x several times politely requesting Digital Foundry look into this issue as they have the tech knowhow and the industry contacts to get an answer and maybe something actually done about it.

I haven't even had the courtesy of a response. They're not interested.
Click to expand...

One PM is probably enough for a mental note to be made.

Talking about it when the opportunity arises and treating it as no more or less significant issue than anything else they frame as "disappointing" seems pretty reasonable, tactful and conversationally influential.
 
F

FairXchange

Member
Vashetti said:
TLOU used to run 1800p/60fps or 4K/30fps before Naughty Dog patched out downsampling.

But that's beside the point.

If the game is already running at 4K/1800p/1440p/checkboarded, etc. when connected to a 4K display, then why should it run any differently when feeding that image to a 1080p display?
Click to expand...
I'm aware of tlou, being a last gen game that was feasible to run at downsample 4k. But it would appear that performance was the motivator to cut that feature. I like the downsampling in Titanfall. I prefer that it be implemented, but I'm not going to ask for it to be mandated when not feasible for optimal framerate and performance at 1080p.
 
O

OdysseusVA

Banned
FairXchange said:
I'm aware of tlou, being a last gen game that was feasible to run at downsample 4k. But it would appear that performance was the motivator to cut that feature. I like the downsampling in Titanfall. I prefer that it be implemented, but I'm not going to ask for it to be mandated when not feasible for optimal framerate and performance at 1080p.
Click to expand...

They fixed the performance issues with TLOU and yet they still removed the options
 
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