Support NeoGAF

[Aesnath]

I suspect that donkey kong, as a property, just isn't that endearing as some of Ninty's other IP. While I know a lot of people who like the DKC reboot and its sequel, I don't know of too many who were pining for more DKC. I also think the perception, at the time, of Ninty focusing on "new" SMB games (which also received a mixed reception despite their quality) probably hurt DKC as well.

I know for myself, despite loving 2d platformers generally, I find DKC a real turn-off. I also really love metroid, so I was pretty disappointed in the announcement overall. I can accept that it was likely a fantastic game, even if it wasn't for me.

 

[sanstesy]

retro gave us their magnum opus and the world sighed

sMH

yall pathetic

 

[AquaWateria]

I mean Metroid already got a trilogy so why can't Donkey Kong?

 

[Symbiotx]

People were rejecting it? I thought it was really good.

 

[Griss]

The greatest 2d platformer game ever made, bar none. A total masterpiece, and very possibly the Wii U's best game, even including the masterpiece that is BotW. Definitely Retro's best game, and that includes the masterpiece Metroid Prime.

It was the another in a line of 2d platformers on a platform swamped in 2d platformers, (public opinion said, not stating my opinion here) and not much else.

That's basically it. The early push of 2d mario and indie games meant people had lots to choose from on the 2d platformer front, and Gaffers wanted something in pretty much any other genre out of Retro.

Exactly. Shit, I hold the game in the highest regard and I still sometimes wish they'd worked on another genre instead.

 

[Father_Brain]

It was yet another colorful, family-friendly platformer announced for a system that had no shortage of colorful, family-friendly platformers. Nintendo fans wanted something different.

 

[FonkyByNature]

Nintendo need to remaster this baby for Switch, i'd buy it in a heart beat !!!

It's way too underrated. The game is one of the best 2d platformers i've ever played, it's in the same league to me as Mario 1,2, 3, World, DK Country.

 

[phanphare]

I mean Metroid already got a trilogy so why can't Donkey Kong?

exactly

and because of all the whining we probably won't get that 3rd game by Retro which is sad

 

[Calamari41]

The last five years have been a golden age for people to pile onto Nintendo with transparent concern trolling, and this game was a prime opportunity for people to make something into an example.

 

[Turrican3]

I definitely do not hate this game.

But I do believe it came a little bit too close to the previous one, and arguably also for this reason somehow felt like a "Wii HD" game for it to really shine from a tecnical point of view as the previous game... I think I expected a bit more in terms of pushing the graphics from a talented studio like Retro.

Of course I can understand why Nintendo decided to greenlit this and not a new Metroid, considering the excellent market reception of the first one.

 

[shandy706]

I liked it.

(shrug)

My 4 year old liked playing through it too. My 9 year old, however...didn't seem to care about it.

I guess "Not Metroid" probably did hurt.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This is the wrong place to ask considering it's held in such high regard.

 

[gabe90]

I dismissed it on Wii U. I wasn't into the system any longer by then.

I would 100% buy a port on Switch.

 

[Forkball]

I liked DKCR for the Wii, but honestly it was so frustrating at times. I was never a huge DKC fan on the SNES either. I hope they still make DK games down the line, but man we are all aching for Retro to do something else. Something besides Metroid while we're at it.

 

[TheDinoman]

I see people say "well, Retro should have made another game in another genre".

But, here's the thing: It wouldn't of made a difference for the Wii U. Sure, maybe we could of gotten a pretty HD showcase I guess, but there's literally nothing Retro could of made that would of turned the Wii U around. Even if they made Metroid or some new mature western IP, Wii U was just far too much of an unappealing console to save it at that point.

 

[Effect]

Here is what I remember. It was another 2D platformer where there were already plenty of platformers playable and available on the Wii U. There was also a big hole being left by the lack of third party support and many looked to Retro to be the one studio at Nintendo that could have filled that void. They were the ones with the experience of creating first person adventure/shooter games at Nintendo and the Wii U needed that. The customer base wanted more of that. Many felt it was a waste of Retro's talents to have made Tropical Freeze because it was believed any other studio at Nintendo could have made it but they were one of the few if only ones that had any experience making games like the Metroid Prime series. It also hadn't been that long since DKCR had came out on the Wii as well.

That's largely what I remember being the main issues at the time. No one doubted Tropical Freeze was going to be a amazing game. Even if you were upset it existed you knew it was going to be good. People just didn't want it and wanted something else. It's also why Federal Force was rejected as well because it wasn't what people wanted. The Metroid and overall Nintendo fan base had made it clear to Nintendo they wanted either another Prime game on a the console or a 2D ala Super Metroid/Fusion on either console or hand held. Nintendo has seemingly refused to do either.

 

[Stopdoor]

The game is great, but before and even after playing it it still feels like a NSMBWii --> NSMBU type of jump from DKCR. Like, both are great games, and obviously Tropical Freeze builds on the original a lot, probably more than NSMBU, but the gameplay and graphical style still feels so similar it's like an expansion pack. And that's rarely groundbreaking.

By people who love games, like DKC2, it trounces the original, but also like DKC2, it didn't light the world on fire in the same way (obviously the Wii U was even more of a massive limit on DKCTF).

 

[MrBadger]

It was announced at a time when the Wii U was in trouble, and severely needed games to justify its existence. What the Wii U didn't need was a sequel to a Wii platformer in a sea of other 2D platformers.

Having said that, it is one of the best 2D platformers of all time. If it came out at a different point in time, it'd have been appreciated more, and reviewers wouldn't have criticised it for not using the Wii U's shitty tablet controller.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I mean Metroid already got a trilogy so why can't Donkey Kong?

They took it out on DK because it wasn't Metroid, it was another 2D platformer on the Wii U (which was a dying system already lol) and there were "higher" expectations for Retro.

That doesn't mean you take it out on the game like some of these BS media reviewers did.

 

[Shiggy]

I would say it's 100% because it wasn't a new Metroid. In any other scenario it likely would've been warmly welcomed.

It was also because it just looked like yet another Wii HD game, in line with NSMBU, Wii Fit U, and Wii Sports U. People were at least hoping for something more ambitious from Retro.

 

[Jawmuncher]

For me personally I just don't really care about 2D platformers and I want to see retro do something new since they deserve it.

A selfish answer sure. But at the end of the day the game still exists for those who like it and can be enjoyed by them. While everyone else can go about their way ignoring it. I don't have any ill will towards the game itself and to those who enjoy it.

To be fair though. I'd have not cared if it was Metroid Prime 4 either. I want them to do a new ip.

 

[Gestault]

This is the wrong place to ask considering it's held in such high regard.

For single-player, the levels do a particularly good job of leading the player's eye, and communicating where things are or should be (and often play with those expectations) once you tune into the visual language behind it all. Good animation and music make it pretty darn charming, and it has a well handled difficulty curve.

 

[Lilo_D]

But DKTF and BB came out in different years...

Ah sorry I played them at the same year...

 

[sleepnaught]

Guess I'm the only one who has never played a Metroid game. I'd be happy with another DK game, but prefer a return to 3D. I inherited a Wii U a few months back with Tropical Freeze and other games, I should really give this game a try.

 

[Danielsan]

It's certainly a shame. I bought it and 100%'ed it. Amazing platformer that deserved more love.

 

[James Scott]

It was also because it just looked like yet another Wii HD game, in line with NSMBU, Wii Fit U, and Wii Sports U. People were at least hoping for something more ambitious from Retro.

Aside from the fur there wasn't much to differentiate it. Even then RETRO made a big deal about it about having to ask for extra budget to accomplish that.

 

[NotLiquid]

Much like DKC2 was to DKC1, Tropical Freeze is the prime example of how you make a sequel to a platformer. Refine everything that didn't work while expanding with a vast array of creative new level tropes. Tropical Freeze was amazing in how every bit of it's imaginative worlds were instrumental and utilized perfectly for the sake of it's platforming. World 2 and World 5 were some of the most notable when it came to this. Nothing is taken for granted, everything is deliberate and it's a lot of stuff that hasn't really been seen before in the franchise and even a lot of platformers. Providing context like the kind Tropical Freeze does makes wanting to best so many of it's levels exciting and is what DKC2 also did so well.

It ages better with each year I play it. I can go back throughout it's levels and see how just about every level never throws bullshit at you and almost always provides clear indication of obstacles in safe environments (something which Shovel Knight also excelled at that very same year). As easy as it is to dismiss the "simplicity" of Nintendo throwing out a 2D platformer, Tropical Freeze is the one platformer they have that really shouldn't fall to obscurity since there's so many nuances and details to it that you can analyze and learn from. At the time of it's announcement I could partially see why people wanted something else from them but considering the result was this good I'd say it was the correct choice. If the choice was between a new Metroid Prime game with the quality of Prime 3, or Tropical Freeze, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

If Retro's next game is another DK... I wouldn't mind. I'm just kinda scared about whether they can top it.

 

[Dad]

I rejected it because donkey kong reminds me of my Dad who posts on GAF and I ain't giving him the satisfaction of enjoying a game starring him

You're staying in the kennel until you fully appreciate its greatness

 

[apieceofstrange]

Was there really a huge backlash, or just a vocal minority of Metroid fans? Always thought the game was highly regarded and it seems to get praise in every WiiU thread I come across. It's biggest problem was that that most people never bought a WiiU.

Anyway, it was an amazing game, and I hope we get a third installment. Would take that over a new Metroid hands down.

 

[Cipherr]

This is purely on the fanatical Nintendo fans. I mean, there are a shitload of dudebro, 2 cool for sidescroller 'gamers' that dismiss it, but they are expected to be shallow numbskulls. There was a HUGE contingent of hardcore Nintendo loonies that literally never got over the fact that this game wasn't a Metroid game.

It was everywhere on message boards before during and after release.

Weirdos man. It was especially sad because the game is absolutely magnificent. From the level design to the soundtrack it was great.

 

[added_time]

I got a Wii-U fairly late and picked up all the big games at once. There are a bunch of great games but nothing is as memorable to me as Tropical Freeze. It truly blew me away and I like it way better than the first game (which I already really liked)

 

[Jumeira]

I would cry if Retro make another DK game. New Metroid Prime please.

 

[zeromcd73]

Decided to go back and watch all of Nintendo's 2013 E3 and all the discussion going on about Nintendo around that time just yesterday.

I think the big problem with DK seemed to be well... many. Wii U was already in dire straights by this time, and people were hoping for Nintendo to turn it around and shop tonnes of stuff to get excited about for the Wii U.

Up until the announcement at E3, Nintendo's first party lineup on Wii U consisted of Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land, Game and Wario, and Super Luigi U launching that month. So people weren't exactly clamoring for another 2d platformer from their top tier studio.

It also had another problem (and other Wii U software titles did too), of releasing a game after already having released a similar game on 3DS. Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D released a month before DK: TF was announced. Previous New Super Mario Bros 2 released on 3DS just months before the Wii U game and people already noted how both seemed to play and safe and how similar the titles were. Mario 3D World was announced at the same time as the new DK with a fairly boring trailer, and many weren't happy at the time that it seemed like they were taking the small handheld concept used in 3D Land and reusing it for the Wii U.

 

[Octavianus]

I liked DKCR for the Wii, but honestly it was so frustrating at times. I was never a huge DKC fan on the SNES either. I hope they still make DK games down the line, but man we are all aching for Retro to do something else. Something besides Metroid while we're at it.

Nah I'm aching for them to do another Donkey Kong.

Spoiler

Actually, ideally Capcom would make them an offer to make a Megaman game but that's not happening

 

[Lights and Waves]

I love Nintendo...I just don't care enough about Donkey King or 2D platforming to pay $60.

I also am turned off by any game with an ice/winter theme.

 

[Exodust]

Didn't think it was that great, preferred DKCR and still would have liked a side scrolling Metroid from Retro since they seem to know how to do it well. It just felt like a retread.

 

[Futureman]

I borrowed my brother's Wii U right before the Switch came out. My plan was to play some of the Wii U games I never got around to and buy BotW on Wii U.

I was playing Tropical Freeze and loving it. Then the BotW reviews came out and they convinced me to buy a Switch. I was like one or two levels away from the final boss in Tropical Freeze.

I guess I understand people being disappointed that Retro was doing another DK game, but damn it's an amazing game.

I also am turned off by any game with an ice/winter theme.

there really isn't any ice/snow until near the end of the game.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

You're staying in the kennel until you fully appreciate its greatness

Get out of gaf dad, I can't post my slam poetry about how you don't understand anything with you around

 

[dock]

This game is quite horrible in co-op. The level designs really don't suit being played by two people of different skills, or even two people at all.

The game is also too heavily bent on one type of gameplay. If you don't keep running it really becomes a slog. It feels like it was designed entirely around speedruns, with nothing for any other type of player.

Also the system with power-ups and shops felt messy and confusing to manage.

Tropical Freeze feels like a very well made game that's just too narrow in focus, and not very fun if you stray from the one way you're meant to enjoy it. I was so glad to have a much better co-op time with Yoshi's Wooly World.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Bought it but never finished it. Mainly bought for my son. The difficulty was too much.

 

[DMONKUMA]

I mean Metroid already got a trilogy so why can't Donkey Kong?

It's probably because people want a good Metroid game right now after the series got Other M and Federation Force.

 

[Shiggy]

Aside from the fur there wasn't much to differentiate it. Even then RETRO made a big deal about it about having to ask for extra budget to accomplish that.

That was pretty ridiculous when you remember that Donkey Kong Jungle Beat on the GameCube already had some kind of fur effects going. Those were obviously not as elaborate as those in Tropical Freeze, but certainly better than the non-existent in DKCR.

Stills don't really do it justice, it looked good in motion:

 

[cw_sasuke]

It was just a very good game and not a WiiU savior that could sell systems or redeem the GamePad. This pretty much started the "Its a good game game....but is it a good WiiU game ?" - wrong place, wrong time and def. wrong console.

Need that DKC/R Double Pack for Switch in a couple years. Hell add in the SNES Trilogy as well if possible.

 

[J@hranimo]

People were PISSED OFF. They wanted Retro to make Metroid or just a big game in general. It was bad.

That's crazy

I think back then I was mainly in POTD SmashGAF threads that I barely looked at other threads. That plus what other posters above are saying above refreshes my memory about the oversaturation of 2D output from Nintendo.

Edit: I also think Metroid fans are just extremely burnt on the franchise that they lashed out.

 

[mikeebi3]

Would love to get around to it someday, but man I personally loathe the WiiU. That was a big factor for sure.. may it find life on switch eventually.

 

[Gestault]

I have to admit, I wasn't aware of an actual backlash, I thought it just got ignored because it looked visually similar to the first, and during a heavy release window. Almost all the discussion I remember about it was talking about the quality of the platforming (and the rad idle animations).

 

[345triangle]

i violently hate the SNES DKC games, but got DKCR on wii u VC and enjoyed it enough to know that i'd probably dig this despite myself. will check it out if it does come to switch.

really though, not surprising that people were disappointed with it upon reveal. even if it is the greatest 2D platformer ever made, that's in spite of it being a DKC game.

 

[PSFan]

Probably because it wasn't necessary. It didn't do anything better than DKCR and it was one of the few Nintendo first-party games I've ever resold.

Yeah, I agree. TF felt too much like the original DKCR. And neither were as fun as the original DKC trilogy. I stopped playing TF after the first world because I got bored with it.

It did everything better than Returns, what. Did Returns have waggle free controls and a soundtrack by David Wise?

Actually, you could do waggle free controls in DKCR on the Wii. And it made the game 100x better.

 

[Pizza]

I'd argue that it's mechanically the best Donkey kong game objectively. I like all the characters and the levels were designed in a way that you could speed through later levels like a badass if you paid attention the whole time and knew how to react to traps

That said, it released on a platform full of platformer she "instead" of a new metroid FPS. People (not me) got their underwear stained when Cranky was announced for some reason.

The location also wasn't great. During a long stretch of time where Nintendo character refused to go outside their homelands, Donkey king gets a second game on his island. BUT ITS COLD THIS TIME! The enemies were really well designed, but would have been more welcomed in a foreign Norse locale, I think. If the game opened with the island being invaded and then moved to a new continent I don't think people would've minded it as much.

It's a great game though. Much better than any of the NSMB

 

[Rambler]

Nintendo kept this game a secret for too long and it backfired big time.