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Digital Foundry: Microsoft's Xbox One X Benchmarks Revealed: 4K vs 900p/1080p + BC

Pif

Banned
Why so many checkerboard comments? Did I miss something or did 2/3 of the titles hit true 4K without optimization, and the rest of them get there with optimization (by implication)?

I think because of the E3 "true 4k" talk and labels in the video in MS conference and DF foundry shows that it was a lie and stuff like Assassins Creed is also checkerboarded like PS4 Pro that MS of course ditched.

You can expect 1st party stuff to hit native 4k, especially if it already runs at 1080p on base xb1.
 
Fuck....

"Under the later XDK, every new Xbox One title will automatically gain Xbox One X performance improvements, seemingly even if the developer does not have access to an Xbox One X devkit and is targeting no bespoke improvements"


It's also in the video at 8:12. This is really awesome!

So for comparison, the PS4 Pro's GPU runs at 911MHz with 1152 cores in games that don't have any Pro enhancements and just use Boost mode.

The PS4's GPU runs at 800MHz, the PS4 Pro's GPU runs at 911MHz and the Xbox One's GPU runs at 853MHz and 914MHz in the Xbox One S.

PS4 (1.84TF) vs PS4 Pro Boost Mode (2.094TF) = 13%

Xbox One (1.13TF) vs Xbox One X (3TF) = 165% (2.65x)

PS4 Pro Boost Mode (2.094TF) vs Xbox One X (3TF) = 43.2%


Yup. Impressive indeed.
 
After all that fanfare of 'True 4K' and even printing '4K' on the damn GPU it's kind of baffling to see them only half deliver. They also really went cheap on the CPU which is holding this thing back something fierce.
I'm predicting that the majority of third-party AAA games run at checkerboarded resolutions. Which is fine and a huge jump over 900p, but it calls to question all the 4K chest-thumping and marketing they did beforehand.

Did you watch the video or read the article?
 

MysteryM

Member
After all that fanfare of 'True 4K' and even printing '4K' on the damn GPU it's kind of baffling to see them only half deliver.

They haven't actually delivered anything yet, give them a chance to actually deliver it and have the games analysed before you throw them under a bus. The article also clearly states that the 9 or so titles analysed with PIX were pre-optimisation.
 
After all that fanfare of 'True 4K' and even printing '4K' on the damn GPU it's kind of baffling to see them only half deliver. They also really went cheap on the CPU which is holding this thing back something fierce.
I'm predicting that the majority of third-party AAA games run at checkerboarded resolutions. Which is fine and a huge jump over 900p, but it calls to question all the 4K chest-thumping and marketing they did beforehand.

I guess that could bother you though benchmarks show them deliver exactly what all expected. 1080p to 4k and many at 900p to 4k.
 
Pretty interesting video. The note about how any games developed using the XDX development kit will get automatic enhancements on Xbox One X should hopefully allow more developers to quickly roll out changes with little over-head.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Someone didnt read.

I did read the article, did you?
It mentions that the biggest 2017 blockbusters are running at checkerboarded 2160p on Xbox One X.
I realize that it's a good thing that Microsoft didn't force devs to use a 4K native framebuffer for future titles, but that's what makes the 4K marketing kind of overwrought in my eyes. Turn 10 are one of the few to have shown some really impressive stuff in that regard.
 

Shin

Banned
All I want to know is if Ori 2 will be native 4k and maybe Cuphead, don't care about anything else.
 

Madness

Member
so lets be honest here. It's really not going to be much better than PS4pro - specs or whatnot, the fact that they have to checkerboard would ultimately mean that games will probably look the same on the pro/xbX

Csa01f2.gif


Wait till it launches. We are going to have Grass Wars Part Deux especially with Red Dead Redemption 2.

Joking aside, it is quite a bit more powerful than the PS4 Pro. Cpu still the bottleneck so you'll probably see more stable framerates at 4k or checkerboard 4K versus PS4 Pro as the main change. The improved gpu and increased RAM will help a bit too.

Unless it is a Microsoft specific title or they have marketing and the dev wants to utilize the power of the console, the differences could be negligible. Either way, PC gamers win the most because their Play Anywhere titles now have much better ports than what they were getting. As devs will probably just port over Xbox One X versions.
 
I did read the article, did you?
It mentions that the biggest 2017 blockbusters are running at checkerboarded 2160p on Xbox One X.
I realize that it's a good thing that Microsoft didn't force devs to use a 4K native framebuffer for future titles, but that's what makes the 4K marketing kind of overwrought in my eyes. Turn 10 are one of the few to have shown some really impressive stuff in that regard.

Running on hardware that is still not finalised re the SDK?

Im not saying that every game will be native 4K but I dont think you can really state that they only half deliver either, yet.
 
Amazing

"Under the later XDK, every new Xbox One title will automatically gain Xbox One X performance improvements, seemingly even if the developer does not have access to an Xbox One X devkit and is targeting no bespoke improvements"

Beast machine.

Open the preorder!
 

MysteryM

Member
I did read the article, did you?
It mentions that the biggest 2017 blockbusters are running at checkerboarded 2160p on Xbox One X.
I realize that it's a good thing that Microsoft didn't force devs to use a 4K native framebuffer for future titles, but that's what makes the 4K marketing kind of overwrought in my eyes. Turn 10 are one of the few to have shown some really impressive stuff in that regard.

Did you miss the memo where Microsoft have categorically stated that its up to devs what resolution they want to run at? If anthem looks as gorgeous as it does and needs checkerboard to do it then fair play to them. Its also very early, the dev kits didn't come out until this year.
 
OP can you at least post the pictures?
dMPlOVw.png

1 of 3: Xbox One at native resolution compared to performance at 2160p from a barebones Xbox One X port. Higher is better. The data is expressed here in terms of percentage. 1080p scales well, 900p holds up better than you might expect. 720p? Predictably not.
JD4khj5.png

2 of 3: Here are the frame-rates, converted from frame-times (seen in the next slide). Higher is better. 1080p titles gain frame-rate moving to 4K, with two out of three 900p games within five to six per cent of matching performance at 4K.
WWylZPv.png

3 of 3: This is the original Microsoft data based on frame-time measured in milliseconds from PIX GPU captures. Lower is better. Title D is a 900p game with scaling issues, but everything else looks promising bearing in mind the very basic nature of the ports.

qQVegoc.png

1 of 3: A percentage increase comparison showing base Xbox One performance (blue at 100 per cent), followed by back-compat (red) and native Xbox One X code compiled under the latest XDK (green). Older titles can be recompiled to get a big performance boost.
oQXsk2N.png

2 of 3: Here's the same data, this time in basic frame-rate terms. Only Title A doesn't see a huge improvement in performance with back-compat, while the boost with native Xbox X code (a barebones port it should be noted) is massive in all cases.
CWOqyh3.png

3 of 3: Just like the 4K captures, the original data is based on PIX captures measured in frame-time (milliseconds). Here's that data - lower is better here. You might say we're looking at 1.31TF vs 3TF vs 6TF performance here at the same resolution.
 

leeh

Member
I did read the article, did you?
It mentions that the biggest 2017 blockbusters are running at checkerboarded 2160p on Xbox One X.
I realize that it's a good thing that Microsoft didn't force devs to use a 4K native framebuffer for future titles, but that's what makes the 4K marketing kind of overwrought in my eyes. Turn 10 are one of the few to have shown some really impressive stuff in that regard.
Well, if we're talking about Assassins Creed, they cranked the settings up to "PC High" rather than "Console High", so I think it's fair to say it'd be fine running at 4K if it used the same settings.

Everyone knew the goal of running 1080p games at 4K for the 1X, the majority also agreed that CBR 4K at higher settings is better than native at lower settings. So I don't get why you have to keep on chirping on about this.
 

valkyre

Member
Well, if we're talking about Assassins Creed, they cranked the settings up to "PC High" rather than "Console High", so I think it's fair to say it'd be fine running at 4K if it used the same settings.

Everyone knew the goal of running 1080p games at 4K for the 1X, the majority also agreed that CBR 4K at higher settings is better than native at lower settings. So I don't get why you have to keep on chirping on about this.

Wasnt DF stating that the Assassins Creed presentation was running at XBOX ONE assets with checkerboard dynamic resolution to reach 4K?

It is still very early ofcourse and I expect it to have much better presentation, but as for the native 4K part (which aint that big a deal tbh) I think Ubisoft stated that the game will be shipped with checkerboard dynamic resolution.
 

BriGuy

Member
I'm not the most technologically literate guy out there, but what is it about these jaguar CPUs that "thou shalt not replace them?" It seems like they're holding back both the Pro and the XBX for compatibility reasons, but why is that the case? There's a myriad of CPUs out there in the PC space and shit just seems to work on them regardless, whether you're rocking a four year old i5 or risking setting your house on fire with some quasi-experimental i9. What makes things so different for the consoles? Honest question.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Running on hardware that is still not finalised re the SDK?

Im not saying that every game will be native 4K but I dont think you can really state that they only half deliver either, yet.

You're right. I'm too quick to judge.
I just think they themselves put a huge spotlight on their promised resolution capabilities and it in turn leads to some additional scrutiny from my part. There's no doubt it'll carry the best looking console versions among multiplatform games, just not all running at native 4K.
 

MilkyJoe

Member
After all that fanfare of 'True 4K' and even printing '4K' on the damn GPU it's kind of baffling to see them only half deliver. They also really went cheap on the CPU which is holding this thing back something fierce.
I'm predicting that the majority of third-party AAA games run at checkerboarded resolutions. Which is fine and a huge jump over 900p, but it calls to question all the 4K chest-thumping and marketing they did beforehand.

Well the fact that it can actually run any AAA, effect heavy, games at native 4K is enough to justify that and they'll be plenty of them. There's only so much you can chuck at any GPU before it struggles. CB is a means to an end. And let's be honest, we all think chasing 4K is a waste of resources anyway. So no one really cares. But X1 not being able to 4K native every title that's thrown at it is about all there's left for some to cling to.
 
you missed the part where almost every game is able to run natively on 4K:
That's not what that quote says. It indicates that the 4x scenario is met--i.e. 1080p to 4K. But as they say next, the "stretch goal" for 900p to go to 4K (more than 4x) is much harder, and the games don't make it. In some cases optimization will get them there, but devs may settle for lower resolutions instead, as we're seeing with ACO and Anthem. Since a significant portion of Xbox One games are at 900p, this may result in fewer native 4K titles than originally projected.

Half a page and nothing discussing the new info from the article:
Yeah, this directly contradicts
the article Digital Foundry did earlier
about boosting games. Rather than being totally different, Microsoft's approach to boost looks very similar to Sony's: don't use all CUs or unique new hardware, rely mostly on the clock speed increase. Only for future games will they start utilizing the whole GPU.

This makes Microsoft's statements border on the edge of misleading. Here's what their Graphics Technical Fellow said:
Andrew Goossen said:
We bring to bear all 40 compute units and the full 1172MHz clock-speed, we're bringing those to bear on all the games possible...."
Andrew Goossen said:
There will be some cases where we have to dial down some of those attributes... in some games we potentially have to dial down the number of CUs, for example, to maintain compatibility with that title.
We originally thought that "some games" using fewer resources would be rare.The idea was this would be only ones that ran badly under boost, and from PS4 Pro we know that won't be many. But it turns out that every single unpatched game already released falls into this category!

Now, even without all resources available the One X is considerably more powerful than previous Xbox Ones. So boosting will still occur as said. But instead of assuming that framerate and resolution will always be pegged to their targets, this opens the possibility of boosted games still falling short intermittently.
 

brawly

Member
Man when is the preorder going up

Hurry up with the pre-orders MS!

Come on preorders! Need to see some actual footage of these improvements, since we are mainly dealing with benchmarks etc but it's all super exciting.

Open. Up. The. Pre. Orders.

Now!

Beast machine.

Let's get those preorders opened up.

Who do I have to bribe at the FCC so I can preorder it???

Ya'll acting like this thing will be hard to get or something.
 

leeh

Member
Wasnt DF stating that the Assassins Creed presentation was running at XBOX ONE assets with checkerboard dynamic resolution to reach 4K?

It is still very early ofcourse and I expect it to have much better presentation, but as for the native 4K part (which aint that big a deal tbh) I think Ubisoft stated that the game will be shipped with checkerboard dynamic resolution.
Both run dynamic 4K CBR, one has the settings cranked higher.
 

flkraven

Member
Nice to see that this thing is a powerhouse. I'm sure it was weird for Microsoft being in the position of having the weaker console since it's not where they are used to being. Return of the king.
 
Csa01f2.gif


Wait till it launches. We are going to have Grass Wars Part Deux especially with Red Dead Redemption 2.

Joking aside, it is quite a bit more powerful than the PS4 Pro. Cpu still the bottleneck so you'll probably see more stable framerates at 4k or checkerboard 4K versus PS4 Pro as the main change. The improved gpu and increased RAM will help a bit too.

Unless it is a Microsoft specific title or they have marketing and the dev wants to utilize the power of the console, the differences could be negligible. Either way, PC gamers win the most because their Play Anywhere titles now have much better ports than what they were getting. As devs will probably just port over Xbox One X versions.


of course it'd be more powerful but the way horizon looks from a dedicated first party means the games already look terrific. Not discounting how XbX will look but considering how good it already looks, I doubt it will be like so much better looking.

Its not really going to have that next generational leap especially when the base hardware (ps4/xbox1s) are still going to hold these games back.

horizonzerodawn_20170afkxc.png

just keeping in mind this is what 1st party is delivering on PS4. How much better will games look?


Did you read the article where they talked about pro and the 1X?

http://wccftech.com/sumo-digital-xb1x-15k-props/

Big claims by Sumo

Their game (crackdown) looks like hot garbage. So I don't know if you really want to buy what Sumo is selling.

these are their games "Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed and LittleBigPlanet 3, Crackdown 3"


Anyhow, we'll find out soon enough when the console is out.
 
Ya'll acting like this thing will be hard to get or something.

And so? How did you even come about that assumption? It's their cash and all they want to do is pre-order the thing as soon as it goes up cos they are eager to get one. I see nothing wrong with that.
 

Ehker

Member
Fuck....

"Under the later XDK, every new Xbox One title will automatically gain Xbox One X performance improvements, seemingly even if the developer does not have access to an Xbox One X devkit and is targeting no bespoke improvements"

You seem to be making a big deal out of this, but we've heard about this a long time ago.

It'll have better frame rates, dynamic resolution games could hit the maximum 1080p and texture filtering will be improved. This was said back in April.

Let's be honest the majority of people buying this will have 4K TVs. I mean 4K is cheap as hell now.

The problem isn't cost, but getting people to think it's time to buy a new TV with a higher resolution.
 

Caayn

Member
Csa01f2.gif


Wait till it launches. We are going to have Grass Wars Part Deux especially with Red Dead Redemption 2.
I can't wait. I'll need to start stocking popcorn.
I've created a visual aid.

visualnelqk.png
Yeah, this directly contradicts
the article Digital Foundry did earlier
about boosting games. Rather than being totally different, Microsoft's approach to boost looks very similar to Sony's: don't use all CUs or unique new hardware, just the clock speed increase. Only for future games will they start utilizing the whole GPU.
You're ignoring here that unpatched games will still have access to more GPU cores on the XB1X than they do on the base XB1. LelouchZero already pointed out the power differences between boost modes on both devices. They might not have access to the full GPU, but they benefit more than just a clock speed increase which you try to imply.
It's also in the video at 8:12. This is really awesome!

So for comparison, the PS4 Pro's GPU runs at 911MHz with 1152 cores in games that don't have any Pro enhancements and just use Boost mode.

The PS4's GPU runs at 800MHz, the PS4 Pro's GPU runs at 911MHz and the Xbox One's GPU runs at 853MHz and 914MHz in the Xbox One S.

PS4 (1.84TF) vs PS4 Pro Boost Mode (2.094TF) = 13%

Xbox One (1.13TF) vs Xbox One X (3TF) = 165% (2.65x)

PS4 Pro Boost Mode (2.094TF) vs Xbox One X (3TF) = 43.2%
 

Shin

Banned
Its not really going to have that next generational leap especially when the base hardware (ps4/xbox1s) are still going to hold these games back.

I keep seeing this, but have you guys forgot that games are being build with these systems in mind, meaning they ARE taking advantage of them.
So how's the old/base models holding XBOX/PS4P back exactly?
Yeah it's not a new generation, not with those specifications and definitely not with that CPU.
But games are being made with these new versions of the consoles in mind, so the remark is kind of silly.
 

eso76

Member
so lets be honest here. It's really not going to be much better than PS4pro - specs or whatnot, the fact that they have to checkerboard would ultimately mean that games will probably look the same on the pro/xbX

It is significantly more powerful.

The real question is, how much of that power will actually be used to make a clear visible difference.

I am not sure using that nice and relatively expensive hardware to produce native 4k as opposed to checkerboard 4k is really worth it.
The fact is, the hardware IS more powerful, quite a bit so. Not sure the games will look that much different on your TV though.

Then again you couldn't expect devs to work on improved assets and whatnot and basically make 3 versions of each game.
 
Their game (crackdown) looks like hot garbage. So I don't know if you really want to buy what Sumo is selling.

The thing is Sumo isn't the only dev saying this also I don't think that the visual style of their current game(crackdown3) has anything to do with his comment cos he is talking from first hand experience working with both consoles (Pro&The1X). Even DF is saying same.
 
I keep seeing this, but have you guys forgot that games are being build with these systems in mind, meaning they ARE taking advantage of them.
So how's the old/base models holding XBOX/PS4P back exactly?
Yeah it's not a new generation, not with those specifications and definitely not with that CPU.
But games are being made with these new versions of the consoles in mind, so the remark is kind of silly.

the games aren't made with these new consoles in mind. The games are made for PS4/XB1s.

The new console will just push 4k and have overhead.

The thing is Sumo isn't the only dev saying this also I don't think that visual style of their current game(crackdown3) has anything to do with his comment cos he is talking from first hand experience working with both consoles (Pro&The1X). Even DF is saying same.

yes, but nothing they've shown so far is significantly better looking.
 

Gowans

Member
The thing is Sumo isn't the only dev saying this also I don't think that visual style of their current game(crackdown3) has anything to do with his comment cos he is talking from first hand experience working with both consoles (Pro&The1X). Even DF is saying same.

I wonder if they do a X update for Snake Pass, it is Play Anywhere and does have Pro Mode Support.

It's not on the list yet tho http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1392285
 

Shin

Banned
the games aren't made with these new consoles in mind. The games are made for PS4/XB1s.

The new console will just push 4k and have overhead.

If that's all you think there is to it then you're beyond crazy and any further discussion would be useless.
Take PlayStation's first party games, they are build with PS4Pro in mind, the difference is rather clear, the same is going to happen with XBOX.
First party will develop their games around the new machine, the box itself isn't magically converting a base game to make it look pretty.
 
If this thing could do 60fps I would be all in. As of right now I'm lukewarm and PC seems to be a better investment despite costing a lot more. I'm ready to see some finished games instead of numbers to make a final decision. I think the 4K video capture is the feature that excites me the most. I know that is odd.
 

Ehker

Member
I keep seeing this, but have you guys forgot that games are being build with these systems in mind, meaning they ARE taking advantage of them.
So how's the old/base models holding XBOX/PS4P back exactly?
Yeah it's not a new generation, not with those specifications and definitely not with that CPU.
But games are being made with these new versions of the consoles in mind, so the remark is kind of silly.
Is this a silly semantics argurment? They'll take advantage where they can, but games are absolutely not built with these systems in mind.

All games are still made for consoles from 2013, and can't be made for new systems that are stopgaps.
 
If that's all you think there is to it then you're beyond crazy and any further discussion would be useless.
Take PlayStation's first party games, they are build with PS4Pro in mind, the difference is rather clear, the same is going to happen with XBOX.
First party will develop their games around the new machine, the box itself isn't magically converting a base game to make it look pretty.

I have a pro but I still don't think that the games are built with Pro in mind. Horizon looks pretty much the same on Pro and standard - its 4k that it can push with checkerboarding. If Horizon was built with the pro in mind, it'd look worse on the standard ps4 and it doesn't.

Is this a silly semantics argurment? They'll take advantage where they can, but games are absolutely not built with these systems in mind.

All games are still made for consoles from 2013, and can't be made for new systems that are stopgaps.

yup.

All the games will need to still run on xb1s and ps4.
 
Console wars are serious business. Can't let other people enjoy something that isn't the thing they enjoy!

It's pretty sad. I get the next best regardless of platform. I've got the PS4 PRO and currently Xbox 1. I plan to upgrade to the 1X when it's available. I tried out the Switch for a week [borrowed from a friend] and didn't like it. To each his own but I'll be content with the Pro and the 1X.
 
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