Support NeoGAF

[Syrus]

Im fine with huge AAA being checkerboard. Im excstatic for indie and smaller being native.

I hope every game is HDR here on out too.

Thisnis good shit going forward

 

[VCL]

I just want 1080p@60fps :C

 

[Vashetti]

I just want 1080p@60fps :C

Buy a PC.

Console CPUs are too weak.

 

[Gowans]

okay i fixed it and uploaded them to a different site
eurogamer is always weird when it comes to images

Done

 

[VCL]

Buy a PC.

Console CPUs are too weak.

xox can do it if you forget 4k

 

[chromatic9]

GPU Benchmarking is now the most important game on GAF.

Overclocking consoles on LN2 will be next. Neogaf has been vaguely resembling overclock.net more each year for the last 3-4 years..

 

[ethomaz]

Any surprise?

- 1080p will go easy 4k because that the power of Scorpio.
- 900p will need trade off or high optimizations to reach 4k... most devs will prefer CBR or others sub4k tech.
- 720p won't reach 4k

I said that when the specs was revealed... there is no magic with the hardware... it delivery what a 6TF GPU with Jaguar delivery.

 

[Steiner]

Here's the list of the "undisclosed" games they used for benchmarking. Any guesses?

 

[leeh]

I have a pro but I still don't think that the games are built with Pro in mind. Horizon looks pretty much the same on Pro and standard - its 4k that it can push with checkerboarding. If Horizon was built with the pro in mind, it'd look worse on the standard ps4 and it doesn't.

Horizon looks the same between the Pro and PS4, wut?

Even as an Xbox gamer who's seen both versions in person, that is a whole load of crap. The Pro version looks fantastically good, OG PS4 version still looks great mind but there's quite the difference.

 

[Vashetti]

xox can do it if you forget 4k

Sigh

Gaf (straw)Man in: The Curious Case of the CPU-bound Video Game! Oversimplified collector's edition

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.

Frame rate: 30
What is this? A 30 fps video game! Fret not! Gaf man is here to save the day! Clearly they have sacrificed the fluidity of the game for fancy (checkerboarded) 4K. Let us turn down the resolution to 1080p.

Frame rate: 30
Alas! That was not enough! We will have to crank it down further! 720p here we go!

Frame rate: 30
Somehow, this isn't working. I guess we just haven't gone down enough. 480p, here we go!

Frame rate: 30
You know what? Graphics are overrated. Destiny 2 would be far better as an artistic experience that replicates blindness. How about we render nothing at all?

Frame rate: 35
Progress! Gaf man has cracked yet another case!

 

[Shin]

Is this a silly semantics argurment? They'll take advantage where they can, but games are absolutely not built with these systems in mind.

All games are still made for consoles from 2013, and can't be made for new systems that are stopgaps.

I have a pro but I still don't think that the games are built with Pro in mind. Horizon looks pretty much the same on Pro and standard - its 4k that it can push with checkerboarding. If Horizon was built with the pro in mind, it'd look worse on the standard ps4 and it doesn't.



yup.

All the games will need to still run on xb1s and ps4.

I said build with THEM IN MIND, I didn't say BUILD FOR THEM (meaning they are targeting the specs of the newer machines).
One is insinuating that everything is magically done by the hardware, like no effort is put into the refreshes, which simply isn't true.
The rest is stating the obvious that the games are made to run on base model, just like the games are taking advantage of a base model first party games are taking advantage of the refreshes.
If you don't agree with that then that's fine, but making it sound like it's a magical box that does everything with no effort is just wrong IMO.
My point stands...

 

[Kolibri]

This video gave me a headache.

They need to do TLDR videos.

 

[valkyre]

It's pretty sad. I get the next best regardless of platform. I've got the PS4 PRO and currently Xbox 1. I plan to upgrade to the 1X when it's available. I tried out the Switch for a week [borrowed from a friend] and didn't like it. To each his own but I'll be content with the Pro and the 1X.

Even for people who might not be able to buy the X on release day, and have already a Pro (like me), I consider the X a very very welcome addition to the industry, mainly because I believe Sony would finally get their shit together in terms of Pro support, which atm is laughable in numerous occasions.

So yeah all in all I am pretty glad MS is going all in with the X and I actually hope it gets some nice numbers (in terms of sales)! I hope I can get one eventually.

 

[reKon]

It's pretty sad. I get the next best regardless of platform. I've got the PS4 PRO and currently Xbox 1. I plan to upgrade to the 1X when it's available. I tried out the Switch for a week [borrowed from a friend] and didn't like it. To each his own but I'll be content with the Pro and the 1X.

Do you have a good gaming PC?

 

[jmartoine]

Here's the list of the "undisclosed" games they used for benchmarking. Any guesses?

A: Recore
B: Forza 7
C: Gears 4
D: Assassin's Creed?
F: No idea
G: Halo Wars 2
H: Battlefront 1
I: Crackdown 3?

 

[secretanchitman]

That is impressive. Honestly, if they confirm Halo 5 and Halo 6 for native (no checkerboarding or dynamic resolution) 1080p/60fps, I may be in for one. I would also imagine that the 30fps animations in Halo 5 would go away as well.

I don’t plan on going 4K anytime soon, so I’m content with 1080p.

 

[MilkyJoe]

A: Recore
B: Forza 7
C: Gears 4
D: Assassin's Creed?
F: No idea - Forza 6/7
G: Halo Wars 2
H: Battlefront 1
I: Crackdown 3?

.

 

[Liabe Brave]

You're ignoring here that unpatched games will still have access to more GPU cores on the XB1X than they do on the base XB1. LelouchZero already pointed out the power differences between boost modes on both devices. They might not have access to the full GPU, but they benefit more than just a clock speed increase which you try to imply.

This was wholly unintentional, but I've changed the wording to make it clearer.

None of the points I made are affected.

 

[JoeLT]

Something I'm curious about as I'm not sure how framerate and resolution scales with Teraflops; with games like Gears of War 4/Horizon 3/Halo Wars 2 that are 1080/30 and hitting 4K/30 with improvements on One X, would those same games be hitting 4K checkerboard 60fps? Seeing as the One X is 4 times more powerful, and checkerboard 4K is 2x 1080p and 60fps is 2x 60fps. For the sake of these examples can we ignore any CPU bottlenecks to avoid Jaguar discussion? Or is 2160p checkerboard not a clear 2x performance hit of 1080P?

I would MUCH prefer games to go from 1080p/30 to 2160c/60 rather than native 4K if so. Not sure if performance to resolution/fps are relative though...

 

[valkyre]

Something I'm curious about as I'm not sure how framerate and resolution scales with Teraflops; with games like Gears of War 4/Horizon 3/Halo Wars 2 that are 1080/30 and hitting 4K/30 with improvements on One X, would those same games be hitting 4K checkerboard 60fps? Seeing as the One X is 4 times more powerful, and checkerboard 4K is 2x 1080p and 60fps is 2x 60fps. For the sake of these examples can we ignore any CPU bottlenecks to avoid Jaguar discussion? Or is 2160p checkerboard not a clear 2x performance hit of 1080P?

I would MUCH prefer games to go from 1080p/30 to 2160c/60 rather than native 4K if so. Not sure if performance to resolution/fps are relative though...

Doesnt work this way. Framerate requires CPU power. And the X doesnt have the CPU juice requirred for 60fps even in 1080p, much less checkerboard 2160c.

 

[Ehker]

I said build with THEM IN MIND, I didn't say BUILD FOR THEM (meaning they are targeting the specs of the newer machines).
One is insinuating that everything is magically done by the hardware, like no effort is put into the refreshes, which simply isn't true.
The rest is stating the obvious that the games are made to run on base model, just like the games are taking advantage of a base model first party games are taking advantage of the refreshes.
If you don't agree with that then that's fine, but making it sound like it's a magical box that does everything with no effort is just wrong IMO.
My point stands...

When you design a game with a system in mind, that's a target. These games are not being "build" for these new systems. They can do enhancements, but that's not how they are being built.

 

[madmackem]

I think it shows that some who bought too much into the Scorpiox being this all super powerful machine might need to check themselves a bit. These cpus will limit the pro and the x, reading this threads about games like destiny 2 going to magically double framerate on the x were crazy. Yes the x is a powerful console that will have or should have better looking titles than seen on pro but it isn't going to be night and day or 30/60 split some thought it would.

 

[leeh]

Doesnt work this way. Framerate requires CPU power. And the X doesnt have the CPU juice requirred for 60fps even in 1080p, much less checkerboard 2160c.

Only already CPU bound games. If its not bound by CPU, which a lot of games won't be, then you will see huge framerate improvements.

 

[MaximusPayne]

I have a pro but I still don't think that the games are built with Pro in mind. Horizon looks pretty much the same on Pro and standard - its 4k that it can push with checkerboarding. If Horizon was built with the pro in mind, it'd look worse on the standard ps4 and it doesn't.



yup.

All the games will need to still run on xb1s and ps4.

Jesus...

 

[Diprosalic]

Fuck our current install base, let them buy all new shit.

uh yeah? as every new gen ever. you can keep BC too.

 

[maximum360]

Even for people who might not be able to buy the X on release day, and have already a Pro (like me), I consider the X a very very welcome addition to the industry, mainly because I believe Sony would finally get their shit together in terms of Pro support, which atm is laughable in numerous occasions.

So yeah all in all I am pretty glad MS is going all in with the X and I actually hope it gets some nice numbers (in terms of sales)! I hope I can get one eventually.

Competition is always a good thing and it helps to keep these companies honest. Having one company completely dominate isn't a good thing for the industry. I've been a gamer since the NES days and I know this to be true.

Do you have a good gaming PC?

I guess I'm in the minority on GAF, I do not having a gaming PC and have no plans to get one.

 

[EvB]

Buy a PC.

Console CPUs are too weak.

Why do people say this when we already have 1080p@60 games on PS4/Xbox

 

[JoeLT]

Doesnt work this way. Framerate requires CPU power. And the X doesnt have the CPU juice requirred for 60fps even in 1080p, much less checkerboard 2160c.

I said right in my post IGNORING any CPU bottlenecks, strictly talking GPU here. Not every game is GPU bottlenecked despite what NeoGAF would have you believe. According to the posters here not a single Xbox One or PS4 game should be hitting 60fps because of their CPU's.....

So strictly in regards to GPU, is 1080p/30 to 2160c/60 possible? It should be if it's a 4x increase wouldn't it, as 60fps is 2x 30fps, and 2160c is 2x 1080p with additional post process rendering for the checker boarding? (I've read this is hardware accelerated on the One X so I doubt this has much of a performance cost, so I'm just going to assume 2160c is the same performance hit as 1620p.

 

[c0de]

Only already CPU bound games. If its not bound by CPU, which a lot of games won't be, then you will see huge framerate improvements.

Like we do on Forza.

 

[maximum360]

I think it shows that some who bought too much into the Scorpiox being this all super powerful machine might need to check themselves a bit. These cpus will limit the pro and the x, reading this threads about games like destiny 2 going to magically double framerate on the x were crazy. Yes the x is a powerful console that will have or should have better looking titles than seen on pro but it isn't going to be night and day or 30/60 split some thought it would.

Realistically isn't it relatively the equivalent of what we'll see with the Xbox One vs PS4 [but in reverse of course]?

 

[JaggedSac]

Now, even without all resources available the One X is considerably more powerful than previous Xbox Ones. So boosting will still occur as said. But instead of assuming that framerate and resolution will always be pegged to their targets, this opens the possibility of boosted games still falling short intermittently.

Yep.

 

[watdaeff4]

Which is sad because it was nothing but a salty troll lol. Kind of sums up GAF these days though.

Irony?

Irony.

 

[Taliban Stan]

Eurogamer Article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-microsofts-xbox-one-x-benchmarks-revealed

* PICTURES *

In that first picture, what does the y axis represent? It's not listed but it seems like it's some measure of "good performance" where higher is better. Are they for real that almost across the board, any game that isn't 1080p on XB1 performs worse on X1X?

I was under the impression that in general, the X1X version would be an improvement over the performance of the XB1 version of a game. Most XB1 games are sub-1080p aren't they?

 

[Shin]

When you design a game with a system in mind, that's a target. These games are not being "build" for these new systems. They can do enhancements, but that's not how they are being built.

Just like the PC is a single platform but different with configurations, first party developers are targeting these new machines.
Different wording same outcome in the end...reminds me of the saying there's more than one road that leads to Rome

 

[Kibbles]

Curious what they did with Battlefront 2 then if Jez is right about it being native 4K

 

[Orca]

In that first picture, what does the y axis represent? It's not listed but it seems like it's some measure of "good performance" where higher is better. Are they for real that almost across the board, any game that isn't 1080p on XB1 performs worse on X1X?

I was under the impression that in general, the X1X version would be an improvement over the performance of the XB1 version of a game. Most XB1 games are sub-1080p aren't they?

That's taking the game and outputting at 4K with a barebones port, not optimizing at all.

 

[Theorry]

Curious what they did with Battlefront 2 then if Jez is right about it being native 4K

"Jez ✖‏ @JezCorden
My info re: Star Wars: Battlefront II being 4K60 on Xbox One X prob won't pan out, sorry for setting expectations, targets aren't locked in."

"Jez ✖‏ @JezCorden
Gonna wait til I get hard info in the future, like I did with the Scorpio stuff, rather than rely on word of mouth. #learning"

Just give me a solid 60fps really. Dont care how imo.

 

[shandy706]

In that first picture, what does the y axis represent? It's not listed but it seems like it's some measure of "good performance" where higher is better. Are they for real that almost across the board, any game that isn't 1080p on XB1 performs worse on X1X?

I was under the impression that in general, the X1X version would be an improvement over the performance of the XB1 version of a game. Most XB1 games are sub-1080p aren't they?

No, the majority are 1080p.

Games that devs push the hardware hard with are sometimes sub 1080p. Of the 180 games released on the X1 this year I'd wager a very small percentage are sub 1080p.

 

[JaggedSac]

A: Recore
B: Forza 7
C: Gears 4
D: Assassin's Creed?
F: No idea
G: Halo Wars 2
H: Battlefront 1
I: Crackdown 3?

CD3 isn't using an in house engine is it?

 

[EvB]

In that first picture, what does the y axis represent? It's not listed but it seems like it's some measure of "good performance" where higher is better. Are they for real that almost across the board, any game that isn't 1080p on XB1 performs worse on X1X?

I was under the impression that in general, the X1X version would be an improvement over the performance of the XB1 version of a game. Most XB1 games are sub-1080p aren't they?

Frame render time

 

[Backfoggen]

CD3 isn't using an in house engine is it?

Crackdown is UE4. I assume it's game E

 

[Gestault]

(Unless I'm misunderstanding) it's awesome that the upcoming SDK update means theoretically even standard XB1 titles with no software updates will see the resolution jump.

I'm really keen on seeing how BC titles look at that stage. Some already look really solid. I'd never seen Virtual-On: OT look so good.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I think it shows that some who bought too much into the Scorpiox being this all super powerful machine might need to check themselves a bit. T.

LOL i imagine they thank you for the concern.

LMFAO

never change gaf.

 

[EvB]

CD3 isn't using an in house engine is it?

It’s unreal 4, game E will be Crackdown. It’s multiplayer , which has an effect on performance

 

[shandy706]

Here's the list of the "undisclosed" games they used for benchmarking. Any guesses?

Wait a second...both of the sports/racing games are listed as 1080p/60 and "In Development" and "In House"???


Horizon is normally 30fps....so what is the second racer?

 

[jroc74]

Back on topic. I'd love to see a more in depth analysis of the loading times and fluidity of the dashboard. One of my major gripes with the Xbox One is that the Dash, at times, can feel really slow and clunky.

Yea, I'm more interested in this now. Even after the latest update it still seems slow browsing games in the store.

I think it shows that some who bought too much into the Scorpiox being this all super powerful machine might need to check themselves a bit. These cpus will limit the pro and the x, reading this threads about games like destiny 2 going to magically double framerate on the x were crazy. Yes the x is a powerful console that will have or should have better looking titles than seen on pro but it isn't going to be night and day or 30/60 split some thought it would.

Yea this on top of everything else we already know...I'll be picking up a used PS4 Pro soon. Cant see myself paying $399 for one.

Even if the split is that big or bigger, at this point I might as well just wait for next gen console to arrive from Sony, MS. The XBO X would make for a decent baseline for a next gen MS console tho. At that point the price should also help in getting one.

Realistically isn't it relatively the equivalent of what we'll see with the Xbox One vs PS4 [but in reverse of course]?

If thats the case, after having a PS4 for a year until it was stolen....after getting an XBO S this past Christmas...those with a Pro shouldn't feel any buyers remorse. Or feel conflicted in wanting a Pro.

Whats gonna be interesting is seeing how much of a difference the ram difference makes between the Pro and XBO X.

 

[leeh]

LOL i imagine they thank you for the concern.

LMFAO

never change gaf.

Yeah, there's the people who're buying the machine, excited by this article and there's the usual suspects feeling like they have to try and downplay everything even though no one is even disappointed.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Wait a second...both of the sports/racing games are listed as 1080p/60 and "In Development" and "In House"???


Horizon is normally 30fps....so what is the second racer?

Forza 6 and 7

DivX 11 and 12

 

[Theorry]

Wait a second...both of the sports/racing games are listed as 1080p/60 and "In Development" and "In House"???


Horizon is normally 30fps....so what is the second racer?

Blur remake. Believe.

 

[Gestault]

Beyond that, there are a couple of curiosities in the benchmarks - specifically, Title I - an in-development open world action game using an in-house engine based on DX12. Frame-times on base Xbox One hardware are measured at a staggering 59ms, suggesting that this section of game was profiled running at just 17 frames per second. There are gains running at native 4K on Xbox One X, and its performance does seem to be GPU-limited - if the CPU were an issue, the scaling would be far more limited in the back-compat results seen below.

In development and all that, but I wonder if the scene was chosen for stress-testing purposes. That's interesting, in either case.