Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I'n not looking to get killed by Hitler Youth and then victim blamed by the President afterwards, so no.
Bless anyone with the bravery to stand up to them though.
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Vehicle plows into counter protesters in Charlottesville
- Thread starter Regulus Tera
- Start date
Bless anyone with the bravery to stand up to them though.
Clockwork5
Member
Violence will win you nothing.
It is not the way to fight these heartless racists.
It is not the way to fight these heartless racists.
I doubt anyone has the balls to stage an alt-right/nazi protest in Toronto, but I'd consider countering it. I've been to my share of protests. Shout them down by massively outnumbering them.
Fuck off, dickhead.
They never are, dude. That's why they mad. Whiteness is the consolation prize for being unfuckable, channeled through the only male emotion accepted by the people who raised them: anger.
scum
A potato has more charisma than this wimp.
Rock And Roll
Member
Please outline your plan to effectively stop these people without violence.
17 Seconds
Banned
what is even the point of this post. try actually saying something.
Psychoward
Banned
and the way is what
I don't think they would stage a rally in my town. It's a liberal bubble here.
Accurate username.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
They also challenge authority, and Hamburg showed that this was necessary as well.
I like that after the initial condemnations of the riots the german media mostly sided with protestors, against the police. (Which I think must be news to most Gaffers who aren't german because international media didn't cover beyond the initial reports of the riots)
We give a lot of authority and even guns to cops, its important to keep that power in check and if that takes the eventual provocation - so be it.
The Antifa is not supposed to be peaceful, calm and politically correct, their job is to shout down nazis and challenge authority. Thats an important job and if a few glasses break and cars burn in the process I think thats a fair price to pay for that service.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
autumnleaf
Member
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
He does share some striking physical similarities to a potato.
I'm legitimately curious as to how you think vigilante violence will "solve" the alt-right.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
This post is gutter trash.
I wouldn't use violence because it's not in me, yet, but nah I've come around that all forms of resistance are justified when dealing with REAL LIFE ACTUAL NAZIS.
Well, it'll at least "solve" it for 70 years or so before all the grandkids of those vigilantes can't get laid again
It looks like y'all come into these threads on a rotation. You wait for shit to quiet down for a minute and then you reignite the stupidity.
I wonder where you're coordinating.
It's not vigilantism. It's self defense. And there's no such thing as the alt-right. They're white supremacists, or Nazis if you prefer.
How the fuck do you fight heartless racist then? Try to make some damn sense.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Kill Your Masters
Member
Some people don't understand this.
They like to live in their TV show, Instagram, Disney movie bubble.
Play games all day pretend the world is a nice place filled with love.
They need to snap out of that because it's as real of a world view is as the fake news fed alt right believes or the flat earth theory.
"Love wins" is bullshit. "Peaceful protests" is a hoax.
Snap the fuck out of it before it's too late.
It's nasty world out there with evil people that needs care and protection and sometimes that requires a few broken windows.
Rock And Roll
Member
Oh it won't "solve" it. There will still be dumb racists. The difference is they won't be marching around in numbers spouting their stupidity if they know it's not going to end well for them.
Violence obviously isn't the answer, this isn't a military war.
If a lot of western nations can stomp out Nazis, White Supremacists etc. in the populace to almost nothing but a cowardly life choice hidden away for the few scumbags with policing, justice, laws, education then so can America. That's the nut they need to crack not someone's head although when they take the steps violence will occur and that's okay, by the authorities to apprehend and stamp it out of course.
If a lot of western nations can stomp out Nazis, White Supremacists etc. in the populace to almost nothing but a cowardly life choice hidden away for the few scumbags with policing, justice, laws, education then so can America. That's the nut they need to crack not someone's head although when they take the steps violence will occur and that's okay, by the authorities to apprehend and stamp it out of course.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
The problem is that you have people in this thread and a few of the others who are not airing ideas or encouraging violence through self defense (which is a legitimate reason for violence!) but who suggest violence as a means of retaliation. This combined with this rhetoric that all people who voted for Trump are literally nazis along with the 90+ million registered voters who didn't bother voting are as bad as actual nazis for allowing this to happen, is a bad look that sounds like the extremism from someone who is deranged and extremist.
Furthermore it is problematic and counter productive to encourage senseless revenge based violence against conservatives and trump supporters in general because the emboldened alt right trolls want the left wingers to come out and fight them. They use attacks on conservative as a recruitment tool, and if you google "trump supporter beaten" you can see endless amounts of this shit already.
So we know that punching them will not do anything to dissaude them, and we know that it will feed into their talking points of white people being oppressed minorities who seek to ostrize them from America.
Showing white people being beaten by POC and left wing groups is the best thing that can happen to them. The nuance of the situation will be completely lost once the right wing media spins these stories and it will backfire massively.
My friends would go to anti nazi protests and throw rocks at them. They'd go on a bus with other anarchists and go down to germany and sweden and scream at the top of their lungs. And what I noticed about them every time I was with them, was how much they were just sucked into this hole. It doesn't work to engage with far right trolls.
And they are far right trolls. They wear the nazi symbols to be infamous and to get attention. I don't for a second believe that a lot of these have read meine kampf or understand it. Remember that Nazi ideology is a contradiction. It was heavily critized and laughed at by some of the pioneers of fascism, because Nazism is a bunch of incoherent nonsense. It doesn't make sense, which is why nazis are so fun to have as baddies in video games and movies and to talk about in historic contexts.
Clearly these people are shitheads, but it's important to reflect on the motivations of why they are doing this, what their objective is, and if your response would benefit them. It's not that they do something that should cause your immediate reaction, but why.
And that is the key. Because like with other forms of terrorism, they depend on guerilla style warfare of cowardly attacks. They cannot beat their enemy in the open, so they try to get them agitated that they'll get off balance and make mistakes in frustrations.
The US being baited into wars in afghanistan and Iraq are good examples of why not to take the bait. Shit just got a lot worse and the terrorists got what they wanted; lots of people hurt, more recruitment and they got a lot closer to their vision of united global war between the western world and the middle eastern world.
Instead of giving the alt-right what they want- I think the best defense the left can do is to mobilize. If they organize a nazi rally with 500 people, the left should organize a peaceful counter protest with 5000, or 10000, or 20000. For solidarity and sticking together and for protection and remembrance. There are many ways to show strength, be powerful and be engaging in political activism that doesn't revolve around revenge based violence or falling into your enemys setup.
Lastly, a previous poster said that other countries don't have these problems because they shut down nazis. This is not true. In most European countries, nazis hold rallies, they recruit, they have radio channels, they are allowed to exist. Just like we have quite a few hateful extremist fundamentalist Islamic group who if they where in power would hurt a lot of innocent people.
We allow these people to exist because our liberal views make us better than that and because our response to conflict is different. Don't mistake this for pacifism or think that this means we don't stand up for each other. You stand up for one another in self defense, but there is a time and place to strike. To give into bloodlust in battles that will only benefit your enemy is stupid and counter productive.
After what happened on the promenade in Nice, a lot of people wanted to throw every fundamentalist muslim who sympathized with the driver for the fucking lions. But we don't do that. Those people are the worst type of shitheads, but even they are allowed to exist and express their views. People have to stay their hand regardless of what type of fanatical hateful human being it is.
protecting people, is what matters most. Showing the contrast between the left and the right needs to be maintained. The comparison with antifa being a terrorist organization is a classic attempt to make a selffulfilling properchy. It's designed to make them come out and engage and inadvertently dox them to make them look they are.
It's best to show that they are not, and give the far right spin media machine as little ammo as possible to work with.
Violence through self defense, yes. To protect others from harm. Organizing and political activism spent on helping victims and union style protections that give various support, financial and otherwise to vulnerable people.
It's a false equivalency to argue that history proves that unmitigated violence is the best option. There is also plenty of history that shows that being absolutely disastrous. You have a situation where half the country is split, with a unstable government, and a far right media that is brain washing many millions of people. Don't think this cannot get a lot worse if hundreds of thousands of armed white people escalate. The outfall and the army and police being involved will be favorable to POC with the way the police and military is structured. It's a recipe for disaster.
I know. I'm just tired of the question.
I'd rather respond with another question: instead of sitting around debating about whether violence against white men is justified for any reason, what does a "pacifist" think we should do when it's obvious that cops and the current administration empathize more with angry white men than any other human alive, no matter their position?
Noted. well I would show up to a counter protest, but not looking to start fights.
There is nothing to "solve". Their ideology needs to be pushed back into the dark depths that it came from and not be allowed to fester into the cancer that almost took over the world some 70 years ago.
You need to treat it like the lethal cancer it is and not some pacific hippie movement that are holding hands and singing kumbaya.
Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Psychoward
Banned
Greigor The Fellhand
Member
fuck this nonsense. If they mobilized state troopers and national guard to deal with riots in a few years ago. they need to mobilize the state troopers national guard and FBI to snatch up all these Terrorists.
fucking disgusting.
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additionally all Nazi replica shit and paraphernalia needs to be made into a federal crime to own, reproduce or purposefully create to push Nazi propaganda and terrorism.
Im at the point of saying the Confederate flag is now the modern day symbol for Nazi-ism and all of the other rank shit to come with it.
Fuck trump. Mueller please work faster I wish for you to imprison this traitorous orange shitbag
fucking disgusting.
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additionally all Nazi replica shit and paraphernalia needs to be made into a federal crime to own, reproduce or purposefully create to push Nazi propaganda and terrorism.
Im at the point of saying the Confederate flag is now the modern day symbol for Nazi-ism and all of the other rank shit to come with it.
Fuck trump. Mueller please work faster I wish for you to imprison this traitorous orange shitbag
And an unavoidable one. Either the Nazis get to do what they want or the majority of people forcefully stop them from doing so. They're now radicalized and past debate, and the established authorities in their own country will only continue to protect them.
Most other countries also solved problems like health care and gun control which it seems America will be struggling with forever.
I wouldn't count on some kind of organic non violent progress being made.
In situations like that I am prepared to throw hands. Don't get me wrong.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
the people who come around and say "violence never solves anything" should have never passed elementary school history.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
I've been thinking about this, and I've come to the conclusion that there is zero possible chance we'd ever have something like this in Toronto.
Which is awesome.
because they're white and they think non white people are less than them
it's really really simple
When the leader of your country equivocates a side flying Confederate colors besides the Nazi ones to those who oppose them, and the head of your Justice Department decides to revitalize the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex, the people cannot trust the protection offered by policing, justice, and laws.
Make no mistake, our President, in his failure to speak out against the Nazis yesterday, enabled them, and in so doing, forced a lot of people to look to their own protection.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Yes?
Look, if their target list was entirely just "your_real_name_here" instead of "inferior races", would you feel threatened? Or do you think that maybe something could be worked out because they're not actually violent? Despite, you know, all evidence to the contrary?
At this point aren't alt-right and white supremacy basically synonymous? In any case, sure, let's restrict our analysis to people who have a swastika tatooed on their forehead.
Anyway, people are literally advocating vigilantism in this thread -- assaulting people who are not engaged in physical violence that threatens your safety or that of others. Like the guys saying you should go beat up a Nazi having lunch in the park. Being a nazi is not in and of itself an act of physical violence. Or is "pre-emptive self-defense" only obviously dumb when Republicans invoke it?
This is fucking pathetic.
How the hell do you add to your ignore list on mobile GAF? I don't want to see that fucking avatar again.
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah really not that deep
"Free speech" is their buzzword for "Neo-Nazi" by the way.
Was just going to mention this
Jesus Christ.
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