They actually can't.
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Destiny 2 PC Aim Assist Needs to be FIXED
- Thread starter Strakt
- Start date
They actually can't.
Thanks for the clarity bungie.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
That's super unfortunate, would avoid this whole mess.
I will definitely not buy if they removed AA in even the Crucible, that's my fave game mode, might still buy on sale if they adjust it, day one if they leave as is.
Either way, I'm there with the LE in 6 days with DGAF PS4, can't wait!
OriginalPoe
Banned
I am getting the same thing. Anyone have any idea why? The only wrapper I have that I know of is DS4Windows. Does Logitech's software interfere? What's the deal here?
I will try to record some video but basically if I am aiming at the body of an enemy (pve) and ADS there is NO snapping at all. I'm not exaggerating. I know how Destiny 1's snapping felt on PS4 because I played the shit out of it.
Kittehkraken
Member
I still think there's gotta be a way where a game can limit keyboard functions during gamepad gameplay without being offensively intrusive or potentially system breaking (valid complaints). It not only solves the XIM problem but also the software side of it.
Sorry, it's not an easy fix because they have no idea who's exploiting and who's not and there is not much they can do about it.
Bungie or competent PC user.
Who knows.
Literally anything that involves disabling input devices without the user's consent is one step away from being a virus. A game does not need that level of elevated permissions.
They have a pretty big testing team, it won't be hard to check different configurations and check Reddit for the software people are using.
This is a post everyone needs to see. Seems like they will make some sort of change and they anticipated this would be a hot topic.
And then when the software becomes undetectable, what then? It's not that hard to spoof application names.
And what about people using a XIM4 or any other hardware?
Lol, ok Bungie.
You make it sounds like blizzard can't detect a cheat program or an overlay if it changes its name.
Sure, you can start banning legit applications with multi use that some users with disabilities use that can also be used for this, or you know, people will just change the IDs and find new ways. It's a mouse and cat game that they can't win simply because you don't even need software running on your PC for this at all.
They can try and mitigate it but that's making more work without any solution
Hooking a program is entirely different from what we're talking about. It's pretty obvious to tell if a program is being hooked or not, what you're talking about is effectively modifying Windows. Destiny gets the controller information from Windows, the spoofing programs spoof the controller to Windows. So either you modify Windows to be able to report spoofed controllers or...
And that is something they would never do. Because you're doing shit way past the line at that point. They literally cannot detect whether a controller is "real" or not at the OS level, you would need to try and do some voodoo shit like recording inputs and comparing them to "acceptable" controller response or something.
OriginalPoe
Banned
Okay here's what I get when using PS4 controller on PC:
https://giant.gfycat.com/ArcticDelectableBobwhite.webm
This feels like there's no aim assist compared to D1 on PS4
Here's the same tests using XB1 controller:
https://giant.gfycat.com/SpryMeatyAmbushbug.webm
Appears to not be much difference. No snapping that I can feel/tell. When I have my cursor over the enemy's head and ADS, the red dot is on their head which is what I expect, but I don't call that "snapping." Feels nearly identical to KBM.
EDIT: I am going crazy here. Can someone confirm is this is how it feels on their system? Please? Thanks!
https://giant.gfycat.com/ArcticDelectableBobwhite.webm
This feels like there's no aim assist compared to D1 on PS4
Here's the same tests using XB1 controller:
https://giant.gfycat.com/SpryMeatyAmbushbug.webm
Appears to not be much difference. No snapping that I can feel/tell. When I have my cursor over the enemy's head and ADS, the red dot is on their head which is what I expect, but I don't call that "snapping." Feels nearly identical to KBM.
EDIT: I am going crazy here. Can someone confirm is this is how it feels on their system? Please? Thanks!
If we're going down the disability route, the solution isn't to stealth force MnK by removing AA from controllers.
jipewithin
Member
They need to just disable it on PC. It's the only way. This really can't be in it on launch, kills the game.
Why is disabling it the only option? Why not the ability to allow people to choose if they are matched with players using AA or not?
jipewithin
Member
That is also a good option, if it's possible to do. If someone enables it during match -> kick.
I'm saying the solution you want is more damaging than just removing AA all together because any other way is near impossible unless they get deep Windows access as Windows on a system level believe it's a controller it's using.
texhnolyze
Banned
This is exactly my experience with a DS4 controller as well. That's why I asked how to enable it earlier in this thread.
It's not a godsend auto-aim assistance as some people here claimed it to be.
OriginalPoe
Banned
Thanks. Everyone but you seems to be ignoring my post. I feel like it's either bugged for some people or people are just making a huge deal out of nothing.
Here is a new video showcasing how bad it is (lol @ 4:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-U0ZAPpIXY
Don't mind the title as its just a random persons vid that I came across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-U0ZAPpIXY
Don't mind the title as its just a random persons vid that I came across.
Kittehkraken
Member
I understand not wanting it flat out disabled across the system. My idea was more the game ignoring the systems keyboard from only inside the game itself, but it sounds like that might not be possible without being intrusive. And I certainly hope something like this would involve consent. The game not telling me my keyboard no longer works inside the game would be a bit startling if I needed it for something.
OriginalPoe
Banned
So this aim assist only exists in PVP then eh?
No idea as I don't play with a controller normally. When I did try it out this morning, it was in PVP and the heavy AA was there.
They have 'acceptable' limits of movement speed on console, a Xim mouse cannot turn 180 faster than a the limit bungie set for controller input.
Yes you get controller AA with mouse Xim, but you can't turn as quick and you get controller level recoil (for some reason it is nearly 0 on mouse).
Can the Xim mouse turn as quick as a real mouse on PC?
OriginalPoe
Banned
Do me a favor and try PVE. Start a new character and see if the same aim assist is there for the first few baddies? I'd really appreciate it.
I won't be near my PC till tomm afternoon :/ and beta ends at 1 pm unless they extend it
OriginalPoe
Banned
It's fine, I just don't see any of the issues in PvE. I will try PvP in a minute here, but I think aim assist is more important in PvE than PvP and honestly it feels like it's missing compared to the console version of D1.
Thanks for the replies.
Serious Sam
Member
So what exactly is special about this game as compared to all the other PC FPS games that also have aim assist when you use a gamepad?
I'm trying to understand why this one game is getting singled out of the pack. Is it because OP likes this game?
I'm trying to understand why this one game is getting singled out of the pack. Is it because OP likes this game?
lifeexpectancy
Member
More snappier....
You made my day.
You made my day.
texhnolyze
Banned
I don't play PC FPS much, but apparently in other games the aim assist only affect players who play with a gamepad, exclusively. In Destiny 2, the aim assist affects everyone, including players with KB/M.
No.
You make Windows think it's a controller so it tells the game it's a controller. This works for any game, worked for OW and got promptly removed due to it.
My mouse actually identifies as a controller legitimately for additional inputs and rumble though
https://www.swiftpoint.com/product/swiftpoint-z-mouse/
There's a false flag just waiting to happen
KingpinZero
Member
How hard is to exclude aim assist in PVP matches? Countless of games did this already, that's the only solution.
texhnolyze
Banned
I see. But if Windows think it's a controller, why does the control still feel/look like it's a kb/m?
Is it related to 3rd party controller emulation program or something?
OriginalPoe
Banned
It does require a $100+ piece of hardware though.
Do you have a normal mouse to compare the two on turn speed limits and recoil differences?
Nah theres already a method to run 3 programs without any hardware required to emulate controller to kb/m so you can have AA. Was posted on reddit earlier.
texhnolyze
Banned
Believe me, people would do anything to cheat.
BlitzEngineer
Member
Let me take my KB/M on PSN and you can have your magic headshot button on PC. Until devs can figure out a way to not have this be so easily exploitable
they just need to deal with controller players being at a disadvantage. Otherwise you know there will be shitloads of people emulating a controller with their mouse in software.
I like Destiny, and I'll play it on PC regardless, but if this stays high level PvP is gonna be super frustrating. Laser accurate auto headshotting burst rifles in every match. No thanks.
It would be fine if nobody exploited it but as it stands if you cater to controllers like this it's gonna end up detracting from the experience for everyone.
Yea...play this at 0.25x speed and tell me that doesn't need to be removed. His reticle travels like 3/4 of his targets character model in order to snap to the head.
(There is no actual solution in that regard)
I like Destiny, and I'll play it on PC regardless, but if this stays high level PvP is gonna be super frustrating. Laser accurate auto headshotting burst rifles in every match. No thanks.
It would be fine if nobody exploited it but as it stands if you cater to controllers like this it's gonna end up detracting from the experience for everyone.
Yea...play this at 0.25x speed and tell me that doesn't need to be removed. His reticle travels like 3/4 of his targets character model in order to snap to the head.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
This has now been recognized by Bungie:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/230350535?sort=0&page=0&path=1
Might want to edit that into the OP as an update.
OriginalPoe
Banned
So can someone show me a GIF of the snapping? Because I can't get it to happen with PS4 or XB1 controllers on PC. It doesn't seem like aim assist even is there.
Thanks.
EDIT: PVE please.
Thanks.
EDIT: PVE please.
Hopefully, Bungie won't remove AA or tweak it so it becomes useless. If my understanding is correct, this is an issue with people using XIM4 or specific software and gaining AA on M/KB.
I'm not a developer so I'm not going to pretend that I know how code detection works or if Bungie can detect specific programs running in the background, but since XIM4 requires specific software in order to run and since reddit tutorial mentioned here requires that you use 3 specific programs, wouldn't it be possible to detect such code running in the background and simply ban these people from even entering the game until they remove such software (or ban them all together)?
I actually tried playing PVP last night using X360 controller, and my God, for the first time ever, I felt like I could compete against M/KB players. It was incredibly fun. In one match I was first with 2.29 KDR, in second match I got destroyed (mostly by my own poor positioning) and had KDR of 0.5. So, AA does not magically make you superior to everyone else. Good M/KB player is still deadlier against good controller player. And that story about massive headshots is also crap. Most of my hits registered in chest area.
"Fixing" this in order to make things "fair" - as some claim (and that's some delusional thinking - to even think that unassisted controller against M/KB can ever be a fair fight) would just make the game shitty for people that prefer controller.
I seriously hope controller AA stays. I sit in front of mouse any keyboard at work every day and I'd definitely prefer to play this game with a controller. But if AA is removed, I have no plans to use controller for PVE and then switch to M/KB for PVP. Hell I might even give up on buying the game.
A single mode of input should be viable for entire game and not just for specific modes. Besides, this isn't a cramped twitch shooter with super low time-to-kill like COD. IMO, good positioning will get you much further than auto aim.
I'm not a developer so I'm not going to pretend that I know how code detection works or if Bungie can detect specific programs running in the background, but since XIM4 requires specific software in order to run and since reddit tutorial mentioned here requires that you use 3 specific programs, wouldn't it be possible to detect such code running in the background and simply ban these people from even entering the game until they remove such software (or ban them all together)?
I actually tried playing PVP last night using X360 controller, and my God, for the first time ever, I felt like I could compete against M/KB players. It was incredibly fun. In one match I was first with 2.29 KDR, in second match I got destroyed (mostly by my own poor positioning) and had KDR of 0.5. So, AA does not magically make you superior to everyone else. Good M/KB player is still deadlier against good controller player. And that story about massive headshots is also crap. Most of my hits registered in chest area.
"Fixing" this in order to make things "fair" - as some claim (and that's some delusional thinking - to even think that unassisted controller against M/KB can ever be a fair fight) would just make the game shitty for people that prefer controller.
I seriously hope controller AA stays. I sit in front of mouse any keyboard at work every day and I'd definitely prefer to play this game with a controller. But if AA is removed, I have no plans to use controller for PVE and then switch to M/KB for PVP. Hell I might even give up on buying the game.
A single mode of input should be viable for entire game and not just for specific modes. Besides, this isn't a cramped twitch shooter with super low time-to-kill like COD. IMO, good positioning will get you much further than auto aim.
I play only on PC.
I play only with controller.
Some kind of aim assist is necessary for controllers.
PC for me means most powerful platform with widest range of options.
Removing aim assist for controllers could be a workaround but will fuck controller users.
The only real solution is the game to be aware of what kind of device the player is using. It's difficult, I know. But every other option is only a partial workaround. I can't enjoy Overwatch after the aim assist removal.
The only way to detect what device the player is using is to look at what kind of inputs is generating. You can limit the starting acceleration too. Surely we can generate graphs of mouse inputs playing versus controller graphs. Everybody can identify what device is being used when looking at gameplay footage in YouTube. So I 'm pretty sure is not impossible to create a routine that can analyze input player data and detect if is a masked mouse.
I play only with controller.
Some kind of aim assist is necessary for controllers.
PC for me means most powerful platform with widest range of options.
Removing aim assist for controllers could be a workaround but will fuck controller users.
The only real solution is the game to be aware of what kind of device the player is using. It's difficult, I know. But every other option is only a partial workaround. I can't enjoy Overwatch after the aim assist removal.
The only way to detect what device the player is using is to look at what kind of inputs is generating. You can limit the starting acceleration too. Surely we can generate graphs of mouse inputs playing versus controller graphs. Everybody can identify what device is being used when looking at gameplay footage in YouTube. So I 'm pretty sure is not impossible to create a routine that can analyze input player data and detect if is a masked mouse.
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