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Destiny 2 PC Aim Assist Needs to be FIXED

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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Before anyone says AA is the same as it is on console, you have to remember that the game is running on machines that get 100+ FPS THUS making the AA a lot more snappier.

Here is a new video showcasing how bad it is (lol @ 4:40)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-U0ZAPpIXY

Don't mind the title as its just a random persons vid that I came across.
I have played both the ps4 beta and PC beta. The AA is way more snappier on the PC version due to the higher frame rate. The problem isn't keyboard users being shit on by controller users at times.. its more of the fact that people are able to emulate the same AA on a kb/mouse and it completely ruins the competitive aspect.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/230326236

"- PVP with an uneven playing field feels bad. Not only does it make it more frustrating to lose ("I only lost because Bungie gives controller users free aimbots") it devalues winning ("I can't be sure if we won because I'm awesome, or because the other three players on my team are playing with controllers").

- It opens another vector for cheating. We're already seeing this with players who plug in controllers to add the aim assist to their M+KB play. You're going to have your hands full with people trying to cheat as it is, even if you find a way to track and ban this behavior it's going to be a constant game of cat-and-mouse as people continually discover ways to abuse the aimbot you yourselves added to the game. Why not avoid this headache altogether by disabling it in PVP?

- People will take PVP less seriously knowing there are sanctioned aimbots among the playerbase, and it will irreparably damage not only the engagement of your most ardent players (the competitively-minded who will stick it out between PVE releases) but if you have designs on making this an Esport, you can kiss those goodbye. The jokes at the expense of your game will be torrential.

I will say that I have no issue with Auto Aim existing in PVE. If it makes peoples' experience better with their control method of choice, I totally get it and I think it should be kept in the game.

This just doesn't make sense when applied to PVP, though. It's less fun than it could be, for everyone involved. It's gotta go. Speaking as a core gamer, I want to sink a bunch of time into getting good at the PVP in this game. But if it's cheapened in this way, the simple fact is I'm going to get bored and frustrated, and go back to one of the many FPSes already available which actually presents a legitimately competitive experience."

https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/6wv1td/just_like_to_point_out_something_regarding_aim/

"There's a reason no competitive FPS has Aim Assist, it's not just because of "PC Master Race can't handle getting booked by controllers" which i see pop up every now and then. It's because people can literally get a free aimbot that is undetectable with a keyboard and mouse. It has NO place in PVP games."

https://www.pcgamesn.com/destiny-2/destiny-2-pc-controller-aim-assist

DirtyMercy reports on Reddit that controller input will cause the game to add a lot of aim assistance. And we mean a lot: ”Believe it or not, it is VERY OP," says DirtyMercy. ”I was instantly landing nearly every shot by just swinging my joystick around and spamming aim/shoot."

The worst this would do in PvE is trivialise the challenge, but in PvP, the problems go much deeper. DirtyMercy says they were ”top of the board and won most games due to just wiping the enemy team."

So it seems the aim assist for controller input needs to be revised off the back of the PC beta, but as long as controllers get any aim assist at all, there's a second concern.

RandomedXY points out that controller spoofing/emulation would enable you to add this aim assist even while playing with a mouse and keyboard. Some input adapter hardware can do this, and Bungie can't do much to stop it. It may also be possible with controller emulation software provided it doesn't try to inject code directly into the Destiny 2 client; Bungie say Destiny 2 will block such code as part of a thorough approach to anti-cheat. (This prevents certain apps from interacting with Destiny 2, but any that don't rely on code insertion will work fine.)
A user on reddit figured out how to emulate the aim assist on kb/m

One clip of the snap in action. First shot aiming at feet and snaps to head
 
Sep 11, 2014
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This looks like a bug left in by the devs and not intentional. Controller aim assist is really good if you can't do keyboard and mouse - I was able to play Titanfall on PC with a pad pretty well because of it but never felt like I was stomping because it's still less accurate than KB M. Maybe lower it a bit but I wouldn't say remove it entirely however.
 

Trace

Banned
Feb 15, 2014
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Really Bungie should just flat out remove aim assist. Overwatch did it, there's no reason Bungie couldn't do it as well. Level the playing field, the system shouldn't be aimbotting for one control scheme over another.
 

Trace

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Feb 15, 2014
9,027
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The ๖ۜBronx;247409006 said:
Sure, but the colossal difference in recoil and during pattern between the mouse (much less) and controller needs to be addressed at the same time.

https://youtu.be/NUKq9YUb7xc

Let's not dick around and pretend it's entirely one sided.
Remove controller aim assist, change the recoil pattern to be equal with MKB.
 

SpiceMelange

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Aug 23, 2013
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Emulating an analog stick with the mouse is pure ass. You cannot flick as your turn rate as a set maximum, mouse aiming feels like wadding through mud because of the analog to mouse convertion. Xims on pc is an incredibly overblown issue, raw mouse will always be superior.
 

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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The ๖ۜBronx;247409006 said:
Sure, but the colossal difference in recoil and during pattern between the mouse (much less) and controller needs to be addressed at the same time.

https://youtu.be/NUKq9YUb7xc

Let's not dick around and pretend it's entirely one sided.
Recoil doesn't really matter when your gun snaps to the persons head.. it would only matter if there was 0 aim assist, and the fact that people are able to emulate it to a kb/m makes it worse.
 

Navy Bean

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Nov 18, 2013
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I used a controller and it felt like the same Destiny to me... kb/m would still be better but you can hang which is nice. Seems like the issue is kb/m players finding a way to use AA which amounts to basically cheating the system.
 

ShdwDrake

Banned
Dec 29, 2008
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The ๖ۜBronx;247409006 said:
Sure, but the colossal difference in recoil and during pattern between the mouse (much less) and controller needs to be addressed at the same time.

https://youtu.be/NUKq9YUb7xc

Let's not dick around and pretend it's entirely one sided.
The only thing is that you can set your mouse to emulate a controller on PC and then get the 1:1 KB/M control and the aim. This is the actual problem. Not that controllers have aim assist its that aim assist is in the game. If aim assist is in the game and its that strong you can set your KB/M to pretty much aim bot.
 

family_guy

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Mar 17, 2013
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"- PVP with an uneven playing field feels bad.


I agree, but I don't think there's such a thing as an even playing field on PC. I can play a game at 720p 30fps with my $15 Dynex mouse and keyboard vs someone playing at 4k 60fps with a $200 mechanical keyboard and $60+ mouse with an insanely high DPI. Best to just ignore this and try to have fun.
 
Jun 18, 2014
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Recoil doesn't really matter when your gun snaps to the persons head, and the fact that people are able to emulate it to a kb/m makes it worse.
Fucking lol.

"The benefits I have over players are fine but please fix the ones they have over me."

Both of them need fixing. Again, let's not pretend it's one sided. One issue shouldn't have a book dedicated to it whilst ignoring the other.
 

Felix Lighter

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Oct 2, 2007
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I wish they would just eliminate AA on PC. I have no trust in a developer to find some magic algorithm that balances the precision of a mouse to a thumb stick. It's either too much or too little. There are plenty of other PC games that allow controller but don't add AA to compensate.
 

Flying Toaster

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Apr 7, 2011
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If they want to actually have competitiveness and tournaments wouldn't it just be better to turn AA off completely?
 

rocK`

Banned
Feb 11, 2007
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thanks for this thread, it was getting very tiresome in the beta thread explaining that this wasn't a 'muh controller' thread, but a legitimate design flaw and a game breaking issue.

It seems some of the controller defenders are turning around
 

I H8 Memes

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Jun 19, 2011
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The ๖ۜBronx;247409006 said:
Sure, but the colossal difference in recoil and during pattern between the mouse (much less) and controller needs to be addressed at the same time.

https://youtu.be/NUKq9YUb7xc

Let's not dick around and pretend it's entirely one sided.
What the heck? Got to be a bug because I cant see any reason you would ever have different recoil at all.
 

nOoblet16

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Recoil doesn't really matter when your gun snaps to the persons head, and the fact that people are able to emulate it to a kb/m makes it worse.
To be noted that it takes a lot more than one shot to the head to kill in Destiny, so yes recoil would actually matter (snipers being one exceptions, but even they can't OHK a super). Even if you abuse the aim assist by constantly pressing L2 (which not even controller players do) you'll end up taking a lot more time and missing a lot more.
 

texhnolyze

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Aug 13, 2014
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Hmm.. Once, I was told that there will be no controller aim assist on PC. Glad that they were wrong.

I'm all for their fixing it on PvP tbough, just please let it be on PvE.
 

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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The ๖ۜBronx;247409450 said:
Fucking lol.

"The benefits I have over players are fine but please fix the ones they have over me."

Both of them need fixing. Again, let's not pretend it's one sided. One issue shouldn't have a book dedicated to it whilst ignoring the other.
KB/M will always be prioritized over a controller on PC.. thats just how it is. The fact that you can emulate the aim assist that controllers have to a mouse/kb leads me to believe they will tone down the AA by a lot , equalize recoils..or remove it completely. They did say they were balancing both versions of the game differently.
 
Jun 18, 2014
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KB/M will always be prioritized over a controller on PC.. thats just how it is.
Which should give even more merit to my point, since the issue you wrote the entire OP about will be a priority fix by your own admission.

Both issues provide benefit for the player over the other, both need to be fixed. One shouldn't be ignored just because it's something you have over other players, while demanding the one affecting you is resolved.
 

nOoblet16

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What the heck? Got to be a bug because I cant see any reason you would ever have different recoil at all.
It's not a bug it's intentional. And if you are a Destiny player with experience you'll know why exactly they did this. It's because Destiny's gameplay loop completely revolves around moving and shooting with "feel" rather than actually shooting when you know you've aligned your shot. It's what makes the gunplay feel so good as it just always seem to work when you want to hit something and is why everyone absolutely loves the Destiny "gunplay". Ofcourse it's primarily due to how their aim assist and bullet magnetism works.

However, in order to preserve that same feel of seamlessly jumping around and shooting but without any aim assist they had to reduce the recoil. I may sound ridiculous now and you can provide me 10 examples of games with recoil and fast movement, but trust me when I say it's not nonsense.

I've played 1300 hours of Destiny on PS4 and despite the incredible difference between the 2 input methods, the moment I booted up Destiny 2 beta on PC...everything from the core to movement to gunplay felt exactly like playing Destiny but amplified even further due to the smoothness in framerate and controls and I can confidently say that if Destiny 2 KB/m had the same recoil as controller it just wouldn't play the same.
 

WipedOut

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Oh god, someone call the whambulance.

It's fine the way it is. If you are good with KBM you will destroy a controller user.
 

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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The ๖ۜBronx;247410008 said:
Which should give even more merit to my point, since the issue you wrote the entire OP about will be a priority fix by your own admission.

Both issues provide benefit for the player over the other, both need to be fixed. One shouldn't be ignored just because it's something you have over other players, while demanding the one affecting you is resolved.
I mean.. i literally just wrote you a solution above but ok :)

Oh god, someone call the whambulance.

It's fine the way it is. If you are good with KBM you will destroy a controller user.
But how about a KB/M user using aim assist vs a KB/M user without aim assist?

Next time you should read the OP before posting stupid comments
 

mcrommert

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Oct 24, 2013
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Was thinking I might double dip on pc for those 60 fps goodness...

Once again reminded why I play on consoles... Even if they fix this there is no even playing field
 

LongMuckDong

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Sep 11, 2011
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Nah, it doesn't need to be fixed - it's fine as it is and working as intended.

Thought our discussion in the Beta thread was going well: not sure if it needed it's own topic :/

Might need to rock out a 'Recoil on KB+M on Destiny 2 needs to be FIXED' topic to even the pool lol, was playing with SMG earlier and it's a laser with hipfire on KB+M, just saying.
 

Navy Bean

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As I understand it kb/m (AA) > kb/m > controller (AA). How much better each is is pure conjecture. Your solution is basically to force everyone to use only kb/m. I mean, that makes sense for the competitive scene but I just don't think it does for the base game.
 

Conkerkid11

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Aug 1, 2013
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It's not that big a deal yet, because it's not like a large portion of those playing go through the effort of emulating a controller with mouse and keyboard, but it seems weird that Blizzard managed to remove AA in the Overwatch beta due to this exact issue, and Bungie just didn't do the same thing after having had their assistance in making the PC version.

Hopefully this just ends up being a beta issue that we don't encounter in the full PC release. It sucks for those who want to use a controller. But I don't think there's any other way to prevent this from happening.

They won't even give console players 60 fps PVP. I doubt they'll make guns work differently depending on the mode.
Oh god, this again.

What makes you think they could hit a locked 60 fps in PvP?
 

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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Nah, it doesn't need to be fixed - it's fine as it is and working as intended.

Thought our discussion in the Beta thread was going well: not sure if it needed it's own topic :/

Might need to rock out a 'Recoil on KB+M on Destiny 2 needs to be FIXED' topic to even the pool lol, was playing with SMG earlier and it's a laser with hipfire on KB+M, just saying.
So you're fine with people exploiting?
 

Flying Toaster

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Oh god, someone call the whambulance.

It's fine the way it is. If you are good with KBM you will destroy a controller user.
You would be 100% correct if people did not find a way to get KBM to register as a controller already.
 

Strakt

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Mar 24, 2015
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Why is there aim assist in the PC version at all?
I understand why they put it in for controller users.. but i think they should lower it a bit and equalize the recoils compared to kb/m.. snapping from feet to head is kinda.... :/
 

Warnen

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PC is going to need a lot of help to keep stuff fair, PS4 looking better every day...
 

Conkerkid11

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PC is going to need a lot of help to keep stuff fair, PS4 looking better every day...
lol, how is this a lot? They literally just have to do what Overwatch did and remove AA for controllers.

Meanwhile, PS4 version still has the innate problem with people being capable of using mouse and keyboard that emulate controller and neither Bungie or Sony can do anything about it.

Stop trying to start platform wars.

Aim assist....on PC? Why?
To help people read threads before asking questions.

But really, for people using a controller.

I cannot believe I am seeing a post of a kb\m user complaining about auto-aim for controllers.

I played it and it is not as strong as people are making it out to be. It works just the same as 99% of shooters that use AA. There are plenty of people who have excellent aim with controller and the aim assist just further helps that and brings it up to the level of kb\m.

Playing on PC with a controller against kb\m users is already unfair for anyone using a controller. The small amount of aim assist evens the field IMO.

It doesn't need to be fixed. Git gud os start using a controller lol.
Please read.

Right now, you're capable of emulating a controller using mouse and keyboard, meaning you get the benefits of mouse and keyboard precision along with the auto-aim of a controller.
 

johntown

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I cannot believe I am seeing a post of a kb\m user complaining about auto-aim for controllers.

I played it and it is not as strong as people are making it out to be. It works just the same as 99% of shooters that use AA. There are plenty of people who have excellent aim with controller and the aim assist just further helps that and brings it up to the level of kb\m.

Playing on PC with a controller against kb\m users is already unfair for anyone using a controller. The small amount of aim assist evens the field IMO.

It doesn't need to be fixed. Git gud or start using a controller lol.

Edit: Maybe I read the whole post wrong but if the issue is kb\m users being able to use auto-aim then I agree that is very unfair.