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[Liamario]

Oh really? Did you miss the posts where I said a solution is to lower the aim assist and equalize the recoil so its similar to kb/m... that way controller users can still play? You should try reading before you call someone out.

But you also quoted a post that wants it removed completely -'it has to go'...

 

[Trace]

I disagree wholeheartedly

You will basically always have better aim with M/KB then you are with a controller with AA. YOu will also be able to be more productive and react to things much faster with a M/KB then with a controller.

You are still at a massive disadvantage with AA with a controller

I'm not though. I've played about 30 matches of PvP with both KBM and controller, and it is significantly easier to track moving targets with controller, you barely need to aim. It's just so much easier to play for better results.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

It is an issue but it's also just momentarily funny to see KB&M players bitch about people using controllers as being unfair, considering the historic dialogue between the two. It really isn't comparable beyond first glance, but it's just amusing to see on the face of it.

 

[Mifec]

Should be cut entirely from PVP. As bad as the PVP in Destiny is compared to other competitive games there is no reason to ever have aimbot level aim assist on PC in multiplayer.

 

[Wickerbasket]

There shouldn't be any aim assist. I don't see why so many people think they deserve additional help aiming just because they choose to use the less accurate input method.

 

[Complicated]

Its actually the best experience for Destiny 2.

Well obviously. The game feels pretty bad on consoles. We'll see how this exploit is dealt with and how many more people find during the beta and after the game launches.

 

[Strakt]

But you also quoted a post that wants it removed completely -'it has to go'...

I quoted the entire post, not small sections of it. I didn't pick and choose the worst or best sections.

 

[Broadbandito]

Ideally figuring out a way to block/ban the auto aim with kb/m apps or programs would be ideal and tuning the AA to be a little less for controller and everything would be gravy.

Can it be done? Who knows

 

[WipedOut]

Bottom line is bungie will most likely reduce the AA but I seriously doubt they are going to get rid of it entirely.

People manipulating it with xim or other software xploits will be a problem if you want to play competitive, I get that. Removing AA completely is not the answer. This game isn't overwatch.

 

[dmix90]

I'm not though. I've played about 30 matches of PvP with both KBM and controller, and it is significantly easier to track moving targets with controller, you barely need to aim. It's just so much easier to play for better results.

Stop this bullshit. It's also much easier to simply aim with mouse. We are even. Cheaters need to be dealt with though.

 

[jim2point0]

Thing is, as a KB/M user, I DON'T WANT AIM ASSIST. I want my headshots to feel friggin legit. In PVE or PVP.

I'll just check back to see if they ever fix this because... fuck that.

 

[nOoblet16]

Ideally figuring out a way to block/ban the auto aim with kb/m apps or programs would be ideal and tuning the AA to be a little less for controller and everything would be gravy.

Can it be done? Who knows

Yep this is the best solution and a better response than "remove AA, it's hacks and no skills", "Go play on consoles if you like controller" kind of posts

 

[RichiRamjag]

Should be cut entirely from PVP. As bad as the PVP in Destiny is compared to other competitive games there is no reason to ever have aimbot level aim assist on PC in multiplayer.

Pure lunacy. Destiny has always had good pvp. It's probably what kept the game going as long as it has.

Yep this is the best solution and a better response than "remove AA, it's hacks and no skills", "Go play on consoles if you like controller" kind of posts

As a former pc gamer, I hate those comments. PC was always about choice imo.

 

[WipedOut]

Because its clearly a shit post which contributes nothing to the topic. His post was useless, nothing more to it.

Then let the mods handle it instead of being a rude yourself. You have been rude in the majority of your responses.

 

[wolgoen]

What is it with devs and not providing a simple toggle for things?

HUD on. HUD off.
Map on. Map off.
Auto Aim on. Auto Aim off.

Vsync on. Vsy....ok so we get this one at least.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Jolkien]

Thing is, as a KB/M user, I DON'T WANT AIM ASSIST. I want my headshots to feel friggin legit. In PVE or PVP.

I'll just check back to see if they ever fix this because... fuck that.

Then don't use program to emulate a controller, if you use legit mouse and keyboard you have no aim assist.

 

[Trace]

Stop this bullshit. It's also much easier to simply aim with mouse. We are even. Cheaters need to be dealt with though.

Again have you played both? I've been playing KBM since quake 3 and played Destiny 1 with a controller for 3 years. Controller has been giving me better results because the aim assist is insane. I'm talking about like 21 efficiency games.

 

[Alexious]

I don't think you understand. The aim assist gets applied to KB/M.

Well, then that's what should be fixed. Aim assist clearly shouldn't be applied to KB/M, but as far as controller, I don't see how it shouldn't. Controller users would otherwise be completely disadvantaged.

 

[Strakt]

Then let the mods handle it instead of being a rude yourself. You have been rude in the majority of your responses.

Being blunt and tell someone their post was useless is not equivalent to being rude. In fact, out of all my posts, yours was actually more rude than anything I've posted.

 

[FriskyrumX]

Again have you played both? I've been playing KBM since quake 3 and played Destiny 1 with a controller for 3 years. Controller has been giving me better results because the aim assist is insane. I'm talking about like 21 efficiency games.

Honestly I feel like it's beating a dead horse, you give them proof of this and they just keep shouting the same thing lol

 

[Jarate]

Again have you played both? I've been playing KBM since quake 3 and played Destiny 1 with a controller for 3 years. Controller has been giving me better results because the aim assist is insane. I'm talking about like 21 efficiency games.

who wouldve thought you'd be better with the input method you used for this game for 3 years, rather then the one you've used in this game for literally a day or two

 

[BRocknRolla]

Boy... The amount of PC gaming gatekeeping going on in this thread...

 

[Liamario]

I quoted the entire post, not small sections of it. I didn't pick and choose the worst or best sections.

The game will be exploited. The auto aim isn't the problem, it's the exploits arising from that need to be fixed. I think we agree on that.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Man you can disagree all you want, provide me with false equivalence examples and tell me it's a cheat. But I'm talking fact when I say that Destiny simply would not have that "fantastic gunplay" people talk about without aim assist. I've got 1300+ hours of Destiny and that's enough time to determine why exactly the gunplay feels so good. It's because you rarely every have to think about perfectly aligning a shot while playing Destiny and you can just shoot with the "feel of it". That is an incredibly rare thing to have on a console shooter and is why Destiny's gunplay has been lauded so much over the past 3 years, it just would not have been possible without the heavy aim assist.


Why should someone who likes to play on PC because of high framerate and resolution but also prefers to use a controller be forced to change their method of input for that "Destiny experience"?

This problem with KB/m player abusing the aim assist is a KB/m player problem and the players who prefer to use a controller do not have to suffer by having it completely removed when it can be fixed otherwise.

i never called exactly cheat. but makes zero sense calling good gunplay a faulty gunplay that relies on help to aim. if need help, thats because is not good. simple as that. so is Golden Eye 007 perfect gunplay with its auto aim on?

 

[VisceralBowl]

but the colossal difference in recoil and pattern between the mouse (much less) and controller needs to be addressed at the same time.

https://youtu.be/NUKq9YUb7xc

Let's not dick around and pretend it's entirely one sided.

That's not the only difference. The reticle itself changes.

Mouse:

Gamepad:

It's disappointing to see so many people against aim assist for controllers on PC games.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Boy... The amount of PC gaming gatekeeping going on in this thread...

PCMR bullshit is one of the few things in gaming communities I cannot abide. Especially as someone that used to PC game and now plays on console, the amount of arrogance and superiority you get from people assuming you've never used a computer in your life is irritating.

 

[Trace]

who wouldve thought you'd be better with the input method you used for this game for 3 years, rather then the one you've used in this game for literally a day or two

Yea because Destiny aiming is so much different than any other PC fps that I've played. Controller is flat out easier to play with atm, and I can guarantee you an average kbm player would lose to an average controller player atm.

 

[Durante]

I think the only truly viable strategies are to either make all mechanics equivalent for all input methods, or to split competitive servers by input method. It seems like regardless of how you try to balance artificial assists, it will never be able to match up at every level of the skill curve.

However, I struggle with the idea that something MUST be done. We've had tons of games in which controllers are viewed as a lower, less capable input methods, and this is all but championed by keyboard and mouse players as the way things should be. But should the tables ever be turned... Riot time. Seems strange.

That's a false equivalence. Competitive modes should rely on player skill.

Then let the mods handle it instead of being a rude yourself. You have been rude in the majority of your responses.

What Complicated posted was a grade-A shitpost. Calling it out as such is not being rude.

 

[Li Kao]

Boy... The amount of PC gaming gatekeeping going on in this thread...

Yeah, sad to see. I decided to buy the PC version but if this is the kind of mentality that prevails I shall reconsider quickly.

 

[Strakt]

The game will be exploited. The auto aim isn't the problem, it's the exploits arising from that need to be fixed. I think we agree on that.

Thats the thing though. Auto aim is gonna be on kb/m with the use of XIM or just external programs with as long as it is on controllers. The only solution I see to making everyone somewhat happy is reducing the auto aim so its not as blatant as it is now.. that way it will have a minimal effect on people who do try and exploit.

At the end of the day, kb/m users outweigh controller users on PC.. its up to bungie to decide who they want to make happy and who to piss off.

 

[CountAntonius]

Good to hear that Destiny on PC is just as exploitable and messy as everyone assumed it would be though.

You are aware people use xim on console to use m/kb and aa against pad players right? Of course not.

 

[LtOrange]

It sucks that people are exploiting aim assist. It is a big reason I'm enjoying the PC version so much. Hopefully they get this fixed so everyone can enjoy Destiny regardless of preference. I will probably stick with console if they remove it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

There shouldn't be any aim assist. I don't see why so many people think they deserve additional help aiming just because they choose to use the less accurate input method.

simple this

 

[dmix90]

Again have you played both? I've been playing KBM since quake 3 and played Destiny 1 with a controller for 3 years. Controller has been giving me better results because the aim assist is insane. I'm talking about like 21 efficiency games.

Not in PVP but i played both in PVE mission. Much easier to aim on mouse and completely different dynamic. I also played first Destiny a lot. What framerate you played at? 60, 120+?
If AA on controller is framerate depended then it should be adjusted.

There is a framerate counter though and it says 60. So that's still fine if it's true to console versions. Maybe if AA snappines is really framerate depended then they should reduce AA value to match console 30 fps and make it dynamic from there. Your framerate is almost always fluctuates on PC but it still should be possible to adjust i dunno every 10 fps segments? All engines can track current framerate behind the scenes and some even try to predict it( i think... might be bullshit )


Yup. That's why controller should still feel the same as on console.

 

[Jarate]

I think the only truly viable strategies are to either make all mechanics equivalent for all input methods, or to split competitive servers by input method. It seems like regardless of how you try to balance artificial assists, it will never be able to match up at every level of the skill curve.

Ive asked for this for years, but alas, I also get assaulted because it "segregates the community." Even practically speaking, there might not be enough players in a controller only server on PC to be populated enough.

Yea because Destiny aiming is so much different than any other PC fps that I've played. Controller is flat out easier to play with atm, and I can guarantee you an average kbm player would lose to an average controller player atm.

I have a hard time adjusting to different engines, different inputs, different everything.

You also could be personally better with a controller in this specific sense then you are with a M+KB. You are also a singular person with only a singular experience. Saying "Controller is better for everyone" might be correct, but you don't have nearly enough evidence to back that up.

Generally, any time ive seen a PC team play against a Console team where they enable AA for the console players, the PC players still win because theyre reactions, and aiming are still generally better.

 

[SeeThree]

I remember reading this same exact thing going on with Black Ops 3 PC.
I don't think they ever turned Aim Assist off.

I only played BO3 on PS4 and god damn that was the strongest assist Ive ever felt in a shooter. Shit literally tracked people past walls for a sec after you couldn't even see them anymore.

 

[Complicated]

You are aware people use xim on console to use m/kb and aa against pad players right?

Sure am. This is a thread about Destiny 2 on PC though, so not sure why that's relevant.

 

[Trace]

Not in PVP but i played both in PVE mission. Much easier to aim on mouse and completely different dynamic. I also played first Destiny a lot. What framerate you played at? 60, 120+?
If AA on controller is framerate depended then it should be adjusted.

I play at about 100 fps. Mouse is superior on stationary targets, auto aim is specifically good on moving/strafing targets like in PvP.

 

[Halabane]

It is an issue but it's also just momentarily funny to see KB&M players bitch about people using controllers as being unfair, considering the historic dialogue between the two. It really isn't comparable beyond first glance, but it's just amusing to see on the face of it.

I don't think that it is totally. Its more that kbm users exploiting the auto aim meant only for controllers. AA is needed on controllers...pretty sure most shooters have it. Thumb control is hard to be precise on something you are holding in hand. So I don't have any real issue it being there as long as its not being exploited, that will kill this game fast. I want the controller to stay, when I do some farming of gear I very well may be on the couch with a controller.

 

[Enzo_Ferrari]

I can't see them fixing the M&KB aim assist without removing it altogether from PvP. Destiny 2 checks for programs inserting code into the game client, not programs designed to emulate a controller.

 

[BRocknRolla]

That's a false equivalence. Competitive modes should rely on player skill.

But if one player has a tool that offers higher speed and accuracy even when both players are of equal skill, why is this so different? Why not do something to try to even the playing field?

Whether this specific situation goes too far or not for PVP, I have no experience or opinion, but I see no problem with trying to create a balanced experience despite differences in input. Dropping AA for PVP just puts controllers at a disadvantage, returning to the status quo, which clearly many kbm players would be pleased with, but doesn't actually improve things.

 

[LordRaptor]

As a former pc gamer, I hate those comments. PC was always about choice imo.

Choice is "I can use whatever input I want, even if it might be suboptimal" not "I don't want to learn new inputs or use a more accurate controller so give me aimbots to compensate"

 

[jim2point0]

Well, then that's what should be fixed. Aim assist clearly shouldn't be applied to KB/M, but as far as controller, I don't see how it shouldn't. Controller users would otherwise be completely disadvantaged.

Yeah but that's pretty much every single shooter on PC, isn't it?

 

[Future PhaZe]

Whatever they do, it needs to be decided and communicated quickly. Removing AA after launch should be refund worthy.

 

[Kittehkraken]

I think the only truly viable strategies are to either make all mechanics equivalent for all input methods, or to split competitive servers by input method. It seems like regardless of how you try to balance artificial assists, it will never be able to match up at every level of the skill curve.


That's a false equivalence. Competitive modes should rely on player skill.

What Complicated posted was a grade-A shitpost. Calling it out as such is not being rude.

So can I have the option of not playing with 144-240fps monitors and professional gaming K/B setups? Unfair advantage and all.

 

[martino]

I hope changes/fixes will keep the destiny controler experience intact.

If it was me i would try to make the game listen to joypad emulators and do ban waves (free money for activision and a good lesson for cheaters)

 

[Durante]

So can I have the option of not playing with 144-240fps monitors and professional gaming K/B setups? Unfair advantage and all.

If you can find enough people for your 60-FPS-only server, sure, why not.

 

[Swarna]

And that's fine with me. I just don't want it removed from the game because some jerk could exploit it.

However, I struggle with the idea that something MUST be done. We've had tons of games in which controllers are viewed as a lower, less capable input methods, and this is all but championed by keyboard and mouse players. But should the tables ever be turned... Riot time. Seems strange.

Shoddy evaluation of comparisons here. If KBM got the same level of aim assist as controllers there would be no question about performance differences. What we have here is an uneven match-up of input methods based on one being inferior to begin with but improved via artificial means. Is there ever such a thing as going overboard with this improvement? Yes, and I can give you an easy (but extreme) example. Let's say that a literal aim-bot is basically aim assist dialed to 100%. Tone it down to, say, 90%, and ask yourself whether that automatically become a "fair" amount of aim assist that majority of the playerbase will not have access to?

I hope that illustrates to you why the amount actually matters and how harmful it can be.

Destiny is known for having much more aim assist than other console games, so it becomes much more relevant to re-visit the amount of AA on the PC version. I can guarantee you that the average buyer for this game will be a casual KBM user not capable of consistently pulling off these shots with relative ease:

One clip of the snap in action. First shot aiming at feet and snaps to head

 

[Wallach]

Seems like it might just need to be reduced for PvP modes. I don't know if I see the value in eliminating it entirely; there's a point on the sliding scale of magnitude where the opportunity cost goes more from pushing the skill ceiling up to pushing the skill floor down. Eliminating it entirely is almost entirely a bottom end skill adjustment. They have no meaningful imperative to do that with Destiny, I don't see that happening.

 

[CountAntonius]

Sure am. This is a thread about Destiny 2 on PC though, so not sure why that's relevant.

Cause you singled out PC when the same problem exists on Consoles.