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[ElBoxyBrown]

Joi is sentient. She is programmed to be your loving waifu but she will learn and adapt to ways she feels will enhance the relationship between her and the user.

 

[tonysidaway]

Joi is sentient. She is programmed to be your loving waifu but she will learn and adapt to ways she feels will enhance the relationship between her and the user.

Siri is adaptive, too. So why do we not say Siri is sentient? That's not really a rhetorical question.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Man this is the beauty of this movie. The same arguments for Joi’s love being nothing but programming can be used for genuine love. It’s really impressive to me how perfectly ambiguous it is. That shit takes skill.

The Joi/K relationship was the best/most interesting part of the film for me by a mile.

 

[Astral]

So which one's more interesting:

a) Deckard is a replicant himself and was able to repoduce with Rachel

or

b) Deckard is just a man who knocked up a replicant?

I’m leaning towards B. Deckard also being a replicant that can reproduce kinda cheapens the reveal of Rachel being able to reproduce imo. It makes it less of a big deal that a replicant can reproduce.

 

[Flipyap]

2) The last few posts above talk about that too, but the consensus is Joi's clear jealousy over Mariette is a sign that she clearly cares for K and exhibiting her own sense of self and thought; programming or not doesn't matter; heck maybe she's even gone beyond her programming into a thinking-and-feeling-for-herself AI. The shame is that her face is popular enough to be used for ads everywhere, but the entire movie deals in the fact that 'artificial beings' have been made real enough that their emotions must surely be real as well. What is it to be human other than the fact we can remember these things that make us us?

Replicants weren't "made real enough," they're just bioengineered humans. They're not holographic puppets designed to satisfy their owner's fantasies.
This film's biggest failing might be allowing its audience to equate a toy's subplot with the replicants' plight. This is a series about (sci-fi) slavery and it somehow ended up with people arguing for waifu rights.

 

[Sub_Level]

Joi is sentient. She is programmed to be your loving waifu but she will learn and adapt to ways she feels will enhance the relationship between her and the user.

The waifu aspect of the movie was pretty interesting too. The only other recent movie I can recall dealing with waifu sentience was 2013's Her.

 

[III-V]

So which one's more interesting:

a) Deckard is a replicant himself and was able to repoduce with Rachel

or

b) Deckard is just a man who knocked up a replicant?

I think they are both fantastic. They both work and these themes will likely be explored if we see another film.

Wallace says 'a' is the case, that the child is Tyrel's legacy.

Man this is the beauty of this movie. The same arguments for Joi's love being nothing but programming can be used for genuine love. It's really impressive to me how perfectly ambiguous it is. That shit takes skill.

Yes, I agree. Joi makes you want to believe. For me, its still a bit up in the air if she was simply responding to fulfilling his secret desires and fantasies or that she had some free will and was able to truly love K as well. And with true love, the 1st part follows as well.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Siri is adaptive, too. So why do we not say Siri is sentient? That's not really a rhetorical question.

Siri is like basic mode sentient AI. Yeah she will learn but she isn't gonna motivate you to do anything.

 

[Moonkid]

The repetitive, almost chanting like nature of the baseline test reminded me of the bots from Nier automata. Not a bad year for these kind of stories.

That 0:40 segment in Mesa of the 2049 soundtrack is to die for. Just makes you wanna melt.


(Also reminds me of Millennium Actress, so that's a plus.)

Haha so I wasnt the only one who though that. Now if only they used it as an actual motif like they did in Millennium Actress

 

[tonysidaway]

It can only be option A. I doubt they gave replicants working reproductive organs. So Deckard evolving some semen or Rachel a womb would be nothing short of divine intervention.

She clearly has a womb, and he clearly produces semen. If the androids could be recognised simply by waving an ultrasound wand over their abdominal cavity, the Voight-Kampff test would not have been necessary.

 

[blu]

My interpretation of that scene is this. I think it is a great character-defining moment:

Wallace wants Replicants to obey their masters. He is a controlling Creator, a "God" if you will or at least he thinks he is. He does not want to give them free will to avoid another rebellion. It is not good for business and his plans for Replicant kind.

Wallace wants to keep profiting from slavery until Replicants become dominant force of space colonization (watch Nexus Dawn short). Him slicing the belly of his newest model indicates that Replicant procreation is something he wants to supress in order to keep Replicants from "what makes humans vulnerable" and ultimately too weak to colonize other systems.

Ability to procreate makes Replicants more human than ever before. Beings with desires, the need to be loved and wanted. The process of upbringing is deeply human and attachment is crucial for it to succeed. It is an unnecessary process his technology skips altogether. Replicants being vulnerable to this process is a design weakness to him and threat to his "supreme" endeavours.

Wallace's actions are probably linked with his past suffering as a child. He was probably abandoned by his parents and now believes having parents does not make sense. Human attachment is something he does not value anymore. He wants to avoid pain and therefore devalued emotional aspect of his newest Nexus models. The less human they are, the better. Replicants are tools to him, nothing else.

Wallace is a psychopath CEO every company on Earth wants and values so much. That is one of the reasons this planet goes to shit in reality and the Blade Runner universe reflects it. We don't value life anymore.

Wait, his entire plot was to replicate what Tyrell once achieved for ultimate 'production' abilities. He killed his latest creation because she was yet another "unsuccessful model" in the procreation attempts lineup.

 

[thebigmachine]

Wow, this movie rocked, it was a consensus in my group. Anyone else watch it in Dolby Cinema? Early on the bass was rocking the seat like a message chair, that was cool.

I thought the "sex" scene was one of the more amazing things I've seen in a while.

Any other film would have had the other girl morph into Joi and just go from there. The fact that he played with the whole "syncing" thing through the entire scene was amazingly well done.

Exact same thought ran through my head during the scene. 'When is it going to sync 100%?' but when it never did, I was surprised.

 

[Tunesmith]

Fantastic movie. I can't overstate how joyful I am that my favorite movie got a sequel after all this time that wasn't screwed up.

Amazing.

I am in awe.

 

[jett]

This makes no sense. Did you even listen to Mesa and Seawall?

It was a very predictable Zimmer score

Here's where your "new" fave comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUJRjoua4o&feature=youtu.be&t=149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--jm3eg5kM&feature=youtu.be&t=21

And Seawall is mostly what watershed described.

The soundtrack is honestly not too bad on its own, however as it is used in the movie it does leave someone with the impression that is mostly this atonal, unmelodious sonic hellscape made of long sustained notes, overbearing droning and loud siren blasts. That is, when there's music on screen, since on first watch it seemed to me like most of the time there was nothing.

 

[More_Badass]

It can only be option A. I doubt they gave replicants working reproductive organs. So Deckard evolving some semen or Rachel a womb would be nothing short of divine intervention.

It’s B. Rachel didn’t evolve anything. She was a Replicant designed to reproduce, which is what Wallace was trying to make, but he had only failed where Tyrell succeeded.

Which makes the revolution tragic. There was no miracle. The Replicants just thought it was because they didn’t realize she was as designed as any of them. Replicants can’t reproduce unless they’re designed to

 

[Jeffrey]

Wow, this movie rocked, it was a consensus in my group. Anyone else watch it in Dolby Cinema? Early on the bass was rocking the seat like a message chair, that was cool.

most of the movie was this lol. Was basically an earthquake when he was slowly unwrapping the horse figure.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

That was impossibly good. Like the movie equivalent of Doom 2016 where every card in the deck is stacked against it yet it still comes out utterly fantastic. Just wow. Certainly not a Prometheus.

 

[EBE]

Man I need to watch the movie again so I can know who's taking the crazy pills around here
You all for liking it so much
Or me for just thinking it was 'okay-ish'

 

[nhlducks35]

I really don't understand what happened in the end action scene.

"They weren't high enough?" What?

Turn around, oh we were crashing anyways.

What did they even land on that was slowly sinking? (on one side?)

K's car seemed to be parked really close, but then far enough to not be in the water at all.

What?



Loved the movie, don't get me wrong, but that was super confusing.

Their plane was hit and was losing altitude, so they could no longer make it to the landing base that would take them off word. They crash landed on the bottom of the sea wall, however, the waves pushed them more and more into the sea

 

[JB1981]

The scene where K looks up at hologram Joi and she calls him Joe and you see the ad beneath her staying 'Everything you want to here'
'Everything you want to see' is Villenevue making it blatantly obvious that everything in K's life leading up to that moment has been a lie and yes that includes his relationship with Joi. He throws off his bandages and looks down at his gun like wtf has my life been til now

I really wish he would have cut the voiceover of the One Eyed woman saying "to die for a cause you believe in is the most human act of all." Way too on the nose. The meaning behind the scene is there with just the onscreen action. Those voiceovers and callbacks really hurt key moments in the film

 

[tonysidaway]

Siri is like basic mode sentient AI. Yeah she will learn but she isn't gonna motivate you to do anything.

I'm not sure. I don't think Apple designed Siri to have feelings, it's just a machine learning algorithm that adjusts its neural net, vector machine, or whatever to seek a local optimum in some performance metric. But maybe in the universe of Blade Runner 2049 the programmers have decided to mimic human emotions. I can see that there might be value in this for certain purposes.

 

[More_Badass]

Man I need to watch the movie again so I can know who's taking the crazy pills around here
You all for liking it so much
Or me for just thinking it was 'okay-ish'

Both are equally valid. There’s no mystery to solve

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Also ROY BATTY WAS RIGHT

 

[The English Conquistador]

Christ...The climax of the film, K vs Luv with Zimmers glorious 'Sea Wall' booming in the background. The urgency, the tension, the beauty of it all was too much for my body to handle! I will rewatch this again in IMAX for sure.

And to the above who mentioned the three way sex scene. Shit was also mind blowing. So clever, thoughtful and just straight up Sci Fi madness. It was absolutely superb. Man...

I said earlier today to some this film is so immaculate, so above anything else that it actually hurts. Not physically of course.

I keep going back on fourth on whether I want a Blade Runner 3 or not. The world is so rich and enticing. If Denis did another I would have to be on board. But only if it was him.

 

[Astral]

It’s B. Rachel didn’t evolve anything. She was a Replicant designed to reproduce, which is what Wallace was trying to make, but he had only failed where Tyrell succeeded.

Which makes the revolution tragic. There was no miracle. The Replicants just thought it was because they didn’t realize she was as designed as any of them. Replicants can’t reproduce unless they’re designed to

Not to mention their wonder child can’t even lead any sort of revolution in her condition.

 

[JB1981]

Not to mention their wonder child can’t even lead any sort of revolution in her condition.

Pretty sure that condition is a lie to keep her isolated

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

That monk chant the plays in the Wallace Corp. is orgasmic.

 

[Escape Goat]

I don’t get the ambiguity about a Joi. She was never given a choice to love K. Everything that happens after K activates her for the first time is a result of her adaptive programming. Jois love for K is false and meaningless simply because Joi is executing her directive to respond positively to her owners needs. K needed her to love him because nobody else could. “Are you satisfied with our product?”

Joi rebellion against her manufacturer was Joi following her programming to an extent Wallace couldn’t have predicted. It might appear to mirror replicants but Jois programming was always to please her owner. We aren’t given any evidence Joi has had a fundamental change to her directive.

 

[Jarmel]

The soundtrack is honestly not too bad on its own, however as it is used in the movie it does leave someone with the impression that is mostly this atonal, unmelodious sonic hellscape made of long sustained notes, overbearing droning and loud siren blasts.

I feel though that fits for the type of movie this is. This is a super bleak movie about slavery and corporate warfare in which a cog can't find happiness but only his acceptance about his place in the world.

 

[Curious Puppy]

Makes no sense as in opinions are hard for you? The music is not very varied throughout and drones and distorted horns and sirens characterize most of the music.

Being reductionist doesn't suddenly make your opinion not completely obtuse. Anyone can be reductionist about music. The score had a consistent and oppressive tone with a unique sense of wonder that emerges through, and yeah, he used distortion and horns and all sorts of other tools. So? That's like saying a singer just uses their voice, or a violinist just uses a violin. Try and articulate why it failed at evoking the atmosphere Denis wanted to evoke instead of just taking the easy route and hating for the sake of hating.

Here's where your "new" fave comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUJRjoua4o&feature=youtu.be&t=149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--jm3eg5kM&feature=youtu.be&t=21

And Seawall is mostly what watershed described.

The soundtrack is honestly not too bad on its own, however as it is used in the movie it does leave someone with the impression that is mostly this atonal, unmelodious sonic hellscape made of long sustained notes, overbearing droning and loud siren blasts. That is, when there's music on screen, since on first watch it seemed to me like most of the time there was nothing.

What exactly is that sample from the fan supposed to prove? Every composer has a certain wheelhouse of tools they use, they just evolve and change them over time.

 

[Astral]

Pretty sure that condition is a lie to keep her isolated

I was actually wondering if that’s the case.

 

[jett]

Those voiceovers and callbacks really hurt key moments in the film

They were dreadful. Some of the most inelegant shit I've seen in a movie recently. And they happened way too many times. And this movie isn't even that hard to follow. They were the very definition of talking down to your audience.

 

[EBE]

Both are equally valid. There’s no mystery to solve

Sure but whenever there's such a discrepancy I wanna make sure I'm not closing myself off to some middle ground

 

[Zetta]

I loved this movie, that scene where K screams GOD DAMNIT! to Ana after she see the memory is so damn good. I do understand though why this movie isn't having killer numbers though, but its really sad to see.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

The scene where K looks up at hologram Joi and she calls him Joe and you see the ad beneath her staying 'Everything you want to here'
'Everything you want to see' is Villenevue making it blatantly obvious that everything in K's life leading up to that moment has been a lie and yes that includes his relationship with Joi. He throws off his bandages and looks down at his gun like wtf has my life been til now

I really wish he would have cut the voiceover of the One Eyed woman saying "to die for a cause you believe in is the most human act of all." Way too on the nose. The meaning behind the scene is there with just the onscreen action. Those voiceovers and callbacks really hurt key moments in the film

Don't worry thirty years from now I'm sure they'll cut the voiceover from the super final cut blade runner ultimate collection.

 

[Bronetta]

Both are equally valid. There’s no mystery to solve

Slightly off topic but I gotta say, I like how interactive you are with the community. I've never seen other mods discuss things as much as you, whether its this thread here or some of the indie threads in Gaming side.

Cheers.

 

[Jarmel]

I really wish he would have cut the voiceover of the One Eyed woman saying "to die for a cause you believe in is the most human act of all." Way too on the nose. The meaning behind the scene is there with just the onscreen action. Those voiceovers and callbacks really hurt key moments in the film

I completely agree the callbacks and voiceovers are too much and hurt the film but then you get people even in this thread wondering about basic plot points. Those bits are designed for the general audience who don't know what the fuck is happening. I watched this with a friend, who is a film buff, and he was getting basic events and concepts in the movie wrong.

They were dreadful. Some of the most inelegant shit I've seen in a movie recently. And they happened way too many times. And this movie isn't even that hard to follow. They were the very definition of talking down to your audience.

It didn't happen that often though, only like three times max.

 

[blu]

They were dreadful. Some of the most inelegant shit I've seen in a movie recently. And they happened way too many times. And this movie isn't even that hard to follow. They were the very definition of talking down to your audience.

Good thing they're rather minute and not paramount to the story-telling in the least.

 

[Escape Goat]

It’s B. Rachel didn’t evolve anything. She was a Replicant designed to reproduce, which is what Wallace was trying to make, but he had only failed where Tyrell succeeded.

Which makes the revolution tragic. There was no miracle. The Replicants just thought it was because they didn’t realize she was as designed as any of them. Replicants can’t reproduce unless they’re designed to

Huh? The question was which you found more interesting. A human knocking up a replicant is believable. Two replicants having functioning reproductive organs is pretty wild.

 

[tonysidaway]

This is a series about (sci-fi) slavery and it somehow ended up with people arguing for waifu rights.

Well NeoGAF isn't the whole world. Presumably there are people in more enlightened circles who aren't focussing on sex toys but see that the androids are human slaves.

 

[Ether_Snake]

As expected, it had to have a damn Jesus messiah plot. But worst, they added the typical dirty secret rebels. That was 100% unnecessary. Double Dragon, Destruction Man, Oblivion, The Matrix, and so many other movies have the same damn bunch of dirty rebels, who are usually there to dump some exposition, often to the hero/messiah. Complete with a scene with kids touching Joe for no reason, they should all be working but some random guy walks him and they act like they worship him, just for imagery's sake.

All that was missing was for Joe to spread out his arms like Jesus on the cross as he died at the end. He had wraps on his hands, bleeding from "his side", just like J!

Having the plot just be about the authorities freaking out over a Replicant having managed to reproduce would have been enough. They really stretched this out and effectively brought down the story of the original. Maybe Deckard meeting Rachel was a setup by Tyrell? What a farce.

Was entertaining on its own, but it's a far cry from the original, and I have no drive to watch it again any time soon. I also found that while some flybys were nice, there seemed to have been an interest in avoiding filming in streets or big sets full of people, unlike in the first movie.

 

[Jarmel]

As expected, it had to have a damn Jesus messiah plot. But worst, they added the typical dirty secret rebels. That was 100% unnecessary. Double Dragon, Destruction Man, Oblivion, The Matrix, and so many other movies have the same damn bunch of dirty rebels, who are usually there to dump some exposition, often to the hero/messiah. Complete with a scene with kids touching Joe for no reason, they should all be working but some random guy walks him and they act like they worship him, just for imagery's sake.

All that was missing was for Joe to spread out his arms like Jesus on the cross as he died at the end. He had wraps on his hands, bleeding from "his side", just like J!

Having the plot just be about the authorities freaking out over a Replicant having managed to reproduce would have been enough. They really stretched this out and effectively brought down the story of the original.

Was entertaining on its own, but it's a far cry from the original, and I have no drive to watch it again any time soon. I also found that while some flybys were nice, there seemed to have been an interest in avoiding filming in streets or big sets full of people, unlike in the first movie.

lol you completely misunderstood the movie

See what I mean! I'm starting to think that yes putting in those garbage narrations might have been necessary for theatrical. Hopefully they do decide to make a director's cut for BD and cut those elements out.

 

[mariachi507]

I went to a noon showing today and theater was 3/4 full. It shocked me to see that many people. I'm happy to report that I saw no phones, no talking, and just a large group of people chilling out and watching a film. That never happens to be anymore.

 

[tonysidaway]

Huh? The question was which you found more interesting. A human knocking up a replicant is believable. Two replicants having functioning reproductive organs is pretty wild.

Why? If Rachael has a functioning reproductive system, why is it such a stretch that a male android has one?

 

[Johnlenham]

Shame, and a big shame at that. At least there's Disasterpeace's score for David Robert Mitchell's upcoming detective film to look forward to, so we'll probably get one really good soundtrack to a similar kind of film this year.

Yeah totally, the running theory is the company started getting scared it was a bomb and drafted in more "names" to help shift tickets, as people seem to go HAM over Zimmer.

Considering some of the best stuff recently has been by "unknowns" like Mica Levi, its a shame it was wasted on Zimmer tbh.

 

[Peff]

Good thing they're rather minute and not paramount to the story-telling in the least.

Which is exactly why they're so remarkably jarring. They probably could have gotten away with the voiceover ones if not for the daughter reveal, which plays awkwardly close to a Saw film. But hey, if that and parts of the soundtrack are just about the only issues I can come up with, that sounds pretty good to me.

 

[NewDust]

So which one's more interesting:

a) Deckard is a replicant himself and was able to repoduce with Rachel

or

b) Deckard is just a man who knocked up a replicant?

It is heavily implied by Wallace that Rachael and Deckard are subjects to test replicant reproduction. Are they truly? Or can replicants reproduce anyway. If they are test subjects it is fair to assume reproduction between replicants is limited to Rachael and Deckard. But if they are not... Then, if there are inter replicant relationships (somewhat alluded by Roy and Pris, though it should be noted that Pris is created for 'pleasure') there might be a whole sluw of replicant kids. But it being a 'miracle' kinda debunks that theory. Equally if human-replicant reproduction is a thing, the same 'miracle' would also debunk it.

So I say Wallace was right and Tyrell really created Deckard and Rachael as test subjects.

 

[Escape Goat]

Why? If Rachael has a functioning reproductive system, why is it such a stretch that a male android has one?

Why would Tyrell or Wallace want this? It’s like giving away their trade secret. People would just breed their own replicants or replicants would be free to reproduce unchecked making their business model obsolete.

 

[Johnlenham]

Here's where your "new" fave comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUJRjoua4o&feature=youtu.be&t=149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--jm3eg5kM&feature=youtu.be&t=21

And Seawall is mostly what watershed described.

The soundtrack is honestly not too bad on its own, however as it is used in the movie it does leave someone with the impression that is mostly this atonal, unmelodious sonic hellscape made of long sustained notes, overbearing droning and loud siren blasts. That is, when there's music on screen, since on first watch it seemed to me like most of the time there was nothing.

Clicked a link and yup, still think the second biggest travesty after getting zim zimmer on board is that fucking poster. Jesus christ.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Calling his VR girlfriend Jerk Off Instructions was pretty clever. That's really all she can do.

Why would Tyrell or Wallace want this? It's like giving away their trade secret. People would just breed their own replicants or replicants would be free to reproduce unchecked making their business model obsolete.

It's a plot hole.