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DF: Shadow of War: Early Xbox One X vs PS4 Pro Graphics Comparison + Frame-Rate test
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
This is actually a big factor too. These consoles aren't just fixed boxes anymore, they're an iterative ecosystem, with each new console building on the last, rather than completely starting from scratch (at least, I'm assuming that's the plan going forward for Sony and MS). Carrying forward your library, your friends list, your trophies/achievments, etc. to a new device could very well prove more important than the relative power of these machines. I wanted more powerful hardware, I knew full well that X1X would beat PRO in that department, and still chose PRO because every game I own, every trophy I have, and every friend I've made on PS4 carries with me. I like that a lot myself, and hope both Sony and Microsoft stick with this model going forward.
thelastword
Banned
What we have here is improved textures in parts and better resolution in other parts. As for the textures, this has more to do with ram than raw power.....I don't think XBONEX having better textures is anything to be surprised at.....
Also, if anygame is not the right one to show proper differences in textures it's this one. I mean how can anyone believe this is the best textures PS4 can do...Didn't the first game get best textures on PS4? Yet, some textures in this game are absolutely awful, and I'm not talking in obscure locations either, it's right there on buildings, scaling them etc....How are there so many awful textures in this game? And we all know that 4k textures does not eliminate all bouts of low rez textures.....It didn't in F7 and it's even worse here by a good degree...
Yet, what no one wants to talk about is perf? and yes, XBONEX will give us slightly better resolutions and better textures, but in some cases some graphical bits are missing, but in most previews so far, Performance is just not there or solid...We saw some perf issues in Halo Wars, QB, some in TR with effects missing and now perf issues in SOW...
What's baffling about this whole presentation is that both modes suffer in perf, but "dynamic mode" seems to struggle something fierce, and yet another preview with tearing, which means, if vsync was perfectly engaged, the drops would be even lower.
I understand some people are excited to see better textures and more clarity through rez on their XBONEX, but certainly not at the cost of perf issues with tearing...
Also, if anygame is not the right one to show proper differences in textures it's this one. I mean how can anyone believe this is the best textures PS4 can do...Didn't the first game get best textures on PS4? Yet, some textures in this game are absolutely awful, and I'm not talking in obscure locations either, it's right there on buildings, scaling them etc....How are there so many awful textures in this game? And we all know that 4k textures does not eliminate all bouts of low rez textures.....It didn't in F7 and it's even worse here by a good degree...
Yet, what no one wants to talk about is perf? and yes, XBONEX will give us slightly better resolutions and better textures, but in some cases some graphical bits are missing, but in most previews so far, Performance is just not there or solid...We saw some perf issues in Halo Wars, QB, some in TR with effects missing and now perf issues in SOW...
What's baffling about this whole presentation is that both modes suffer in perf, but "dynamic mode" seems to struggle something fierce, and yet another preview with tearing, which means, if vsync was perfectly engaged, the drops would be even lower.
I understand some people are excited to see better textures and more clarity through rez on their XBONEX, but certainly not at the cost of perf issues with tearing...
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Unfinished builds.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Just think for a moment statham, maybe this console is in some way, a result in some Xbox fans actually speaking up and offering some constructive criticism to Microsoft. You know the ones who don't damage control everything and just want to see it do well? Maybe pat them on the back instead.
chromatic9
Member
XBX putting the X in texture.
MS can have that slogan for free.
MS can have that slogan for free.
statham
Member
Well said, *pats Xbox team on back* thanks guys. much love.
dr_rus
Member
I don't care how custom that Jaguar chip is its still SHIT!
What in that screenshot which is full of alpha transparency which is a very heavy GPU bandwidth effect makes you think about Jaguar?..
I wish that next gen consoles would come sooner just to see the long faces of those who thought that every slowdown in modern games can be solved by adding CPU power.
The game consume ~10GB of RAM and ~9GB of VRAM when using 4K textures on PC. Obviously there's a lot of data duplication due to NUMA PC architecture. PS4Pro has 8GB of RAM total of which about 6GB (?) are available to games. XBX has 12GB of RAM total of which about 9 (?) should be available to games. Simply from these numbers it should be clear that PS4Pro doesn't have enough RAM to use the same 4K textures as PC and XBX.
As for why textures are weak - it's not only about their size but about the number of textures used in each frame as well.
thelastword
Banned
Perhaps, but how fair is it to say, that what folk are seeing here in "textures" is a generation apart to some and yet avoid discourse on what matters most when you play...."framerate". What we are discussing here is the current build and the issues or improvements that are present there....You can't do one without the other....
digoutyoursoul
Member
Now just imagine if more of the community spoke up with some constructive opinions?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You're right but the frame rate could improve.
The point is this is a unfinished build that is lacking a lot of Polish and it already looks visually better than a fully polished version. The final version of this game didn't ship with frame rate issues. So it's safe to assume that the final code on the more powerful version will be ironed out.
Once it's final code the real debate will begin.
Hawk269
Member
And there were several others that said the same thing but many were drowned out by people shouting louder and generally Xbox threads going to shit. There are some that were short sighted and only though with the gap of GPU performance it would be slightly higher resolution on the Xbox One X.
Hawk269
Member
I don't care how custom that Jaguar chip is its still SHIT!
Not going to argue about the Jaguar CPU, but that shot is from a very old build of the game and we don't know what a recent build performs like. While I agree about the "shit" for Jaguar, let's hold off on final performance for the game when it is actually done.
statham
Member
I'm 100% positive GAF provides enough feedback to Microsoft, besides my 2 cents about everything.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
The more I look at this the more I think the Pro version is more accurate, this is almost akin to the SSS on skin on snake vs the rougher looking skin on the XB1. Of course the Dynamic rez of the Pro version just makes everything looks smoother.
Everything that's rougher does not mean better quality, it's similar to the coarse sand in Journey on PS3 vs more dense looking particles(pixels) on account of the higher rez of the PS4 version, perhaps the devs can weigh in as to what they were going for. I see some of the textures and reflections on the XB1 as more of an artifact of a higher resolution, all the PP does not help either. All in all I find that the PS4 version more accurate.
As opposed to the DF author speaking of the PC version as superior ahead of it's release, I'd actually like to see what the PC version looks like in those scenes. Was there a Beta on PC as well? Do we have any shots of it, if so?......
Everything that's rougher does not mean better quality, it's similar to the coarse sand in Journey on PS3 vs more dense looking particles(pixels) on account of the higher rez of the PS4 version, perhaps the devs can weigh in as to what they were going for. I see some of the textures and reflections on the XB1 as more of an artifact of a higher resolution, all the PP does not help either. All in all I find that the PS4 version more accurate.
As opposed to the DF author speaking of the PC version as superior ahead of it's release, I'd actually like to see what the PC version looks like in those scenes. Was there a Beta on PC as well? Do we have any shots of it, if so?......
digoutyoursoul
Member
Neogaf isn't the whole gaming spectrum. I think you know what I'm getting at here.
Pro isnt checkerboard. Its dynamic res, usually around 1620p
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Thank you, I will edit my post for more scientific accuracy.
statham
Member
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Got damn, this reads like a defense straight out of a 2013 Digital Foundry thread for Battlefield 1 running at 720p on Xbox One.
digoutyoursoul
Member
maybe? if I do or don't. ¯_(ツ
Yeah that's the spirit
MosquitoSmasher
Member
RDR2 should look absolutely fantastic yes. Really hope Rockstar is going to be putting high res textures into that as well.
chromatic9
Member
Yep. PS4 Pro is more cinematic, like a paused bluray. XBX has that sharp angular PC graphic look.
both of us joking of course
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
Amazing. And the X isnt even out yet. Digital Foundry threads are going to be a fantastic read for a while.
Outrun
Member
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Surely the guy is joking though? Because if not, Jesus. Why can't folks just accept that's it's freaking common sense that the X would be outperforming the weaker hardware? Why do some people go so far with this?
Spider-Man, God of War and Yakuza 6 are my big hitters next year.
This thread is now complete. I was wondering what was taking him so long.
On top of the fire, the fact that quality mode is hit harder further proves that it's a GPU issue in that scene.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
You why but XBONEX so much...Why but?
..but what about that potato tho..? any comment.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Translation = If this was the other way around I wouldn't be making posts like this but I will continue to make posts like this.
All we need now is a in depth analysis of Halo 5 running on 1X by Shin-Ra and we are all set.
XB1X is truly the most powerful console for the next few years. MS did a good job designing it.
I especially like how there is no seperate configuration for 1080p output and 4K output, instead everything gets automatically downsampled and the graphical options are in the game menu.
THat's far better than Sony's asinine implementation from what i've seen, Sony must have been on the good drugs designing that kind of thing.
I especially like how there is no seperate configuration for 1080p output and 4K output, instead everything gets automatically downsampled and the graphical options are in the game menu.
THat's far better than Sony's asinine implementation from what i've seen, Sony must have been on the good drugs designing that kind of thing.
yes
EtherMagic
Member
I don't care how custom that Jaguar chip is its still SHIT!
Digital Foundry (if you even listened to their video brake-down) said that this was the only spot where the frame rate droped at all, on an unfinished game (from a September showing) at that. It stays at a consistent 30fps other then that one part, and they expect the finished version to correct this.
Stop searching for peanuts, makes you look desperate.
therealbigrich
Member
wow this is pretty amazing take
thelastword
Banned
The thing about technical threads is that we discuss what is rather than what could be or what we expect. That's why these threads are supposed to be objective. So you can't say the textures are an eye orgasm and leave the "elephant" of "framerate discussion", which is quite visible in that video, to the tune of what could be or what is expected, or to the general beat of polish...I don't think that's how it works.
Surely, the discussion is not complete and you would have heard me saying that in the TR thread as well.....That I agree with, but sadly, many games are not entirely polished at release as you expect and framerates don't always get fixed as you're thinking. And yes, I agree that a final build will be more apt for comparison, but seeing this is a recent release, there may very well be issues they can be ironed out on the PS4 as well. In any case, that matters less now, since the present discussion is what DF is showing...Pros and Cons...
rokkerkory
Member
This is just the first DF comparison too. Hold on to your seats all!
That's from the Siege mode which is the most demanding mode in the game, even my i7 6700K/1080 dropped frames like crazy at 1400P in that mode compared to the rest of the game where it never goes below 55. It's most likely a heavy strain on the CPU due to the sheer number of enemies, captains/nemesis and allies you can have in that mode. And it's probably one of the main reason why the game's 30FPS.
I doubt the transparencies (especially one that isn't even covering a quarter of the screen) would be the issue there for a machine like One X despite the high resolution. I don't think the game is GPU heavy in any sense (game has denser alpha than that in normal open world and my PC runs that better than siege mode).
Consider this for a second, high textures uses ~3GB of VRAM, or so, while ultra uses ~9GB. That's a difference of around 6GB and One X is able to support that + higher resolution framebuffer despite only having 4GB of extra RAM over base console. So there is something else going on here.
The high res textures in total come up to 10GB, at any given time it's probably not showing even half of that. While the meter in the option says it's using 8.5-9GB of VRAM on PC you can run it just fine with lower VRAM because it's probably just using it to cache as much textures data as it can so that it doesn't have to stream/load them. Otherwise my GTX 1080 would have started to have issues seeing how it only has 8GB of VRAM.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Microsoft is simply ballin and has best Top tech engineers for the next 50yrs and beyond..constant solid UI and XBL support alone no console company can match that..
I agree that is likely the main reason for the game being 30fps, open world games are almost guaranteed to be 30fps this gen. However with the quality mode with dynamic resolution enabled having a lower frame rate, that's a pretty clear sign that the GPU is a bigger bottleneck there. With those settings, you have higher graphical settings in combination with the pixel count taxing the system. If that scene was entirely CPU bound, both graphic options would have the same performance outcome.
thelastword
Banned
I guess, what everybody should be asking is what quality of textures are on PS4. That could have easily been deciphered comparing it to the PC version at the same rez. It would also be interesting to see those areas with low rez textures on PS4 vs the same areas on the XBONEX with 4k textures and without.
iHaunter
Member
It costs more money and is a year newer...