Vicetrailia
Member
Well that actually is true, but at the end of the day it's still the Trump Administration.
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Does Trump deserve the Nobel Prize if NK de-nuclearizes?
- Thread starter pramod
- Start date
Well that actually is true, but at the end of the day it's still the Trump Administration.
WaterAstro
Member
It's actually more like Administration vs Trump these days lol.
People need to understand Trump doesn't understand how to do shit. The administration he started with has crumbled and replaced by actual competent people that are doing his work for him.
Vicetrailia
Member
True that. Trump literally doesn't know how to do anything but be boisterous.
xStoyax
Banned
MSNBC's Evelyn Farkas: "Unfortunately," The "Bluster" From Trump Led North Korea To Negotiating Table
It's so unfortunate that Trump bullied the bully and appears to have made more of a difference than past presidents have. How disappointing that Nuclear Winter has been delayed..
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HagglesworthMD
Member
Trump is not an idiot. He's the president of the most powerful country in the world and you're posting in the off topic section of a gaming forum, so I'd wager he's far more intelligent and successful than you are..
You're a damn fool if you swallow everything you've been spoon fed by the MSM on Trump being an idiot.
xStoyax
Banned
Do they not teach logic and reasoning in school anymore? Do people honestly believe complete morons grow up to be successful billionaires and end up beating political dynasties to become President?
But...muh drumpf is finished....says increasingly nervous guy for 347th time
Vicetrailia
Member
Where did she say " the bluster from President Trump got Jong-un to the table".
What's the time stamp? But I'm not going to split hairs over it, because that's actually a useful video to watch.
Trump is a silver spoon baby, and has basically messed up everything he tries to lead on, such as tariffs. He's not smart, but he's a brave idiot.
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nephilimdj
Member
Not sure why people are saying Trump has nothing to do with this, it was him that was hard on South Korea and North Korea, while US generals under old Obama imperialist policies were like "no the shield is great, it's free". Legacy of those deals was a fucked up situation, Obamas and US militaries plan to turn Asia against China failed. Philippines didn't get a base, Australia didn't allow a drone base ect.
USA and NATO Asian ramp up announced at Afghan pull out amounted to nothing.
USA and NATO Asian ramp up announced at Afghan pull out amounted to nothing.
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O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Welp not the person I asked to expand his post but I’ll play along. Again yes trump actually did something here like sanctions, call for the international community to further distance it’s selves from nk, going after contries that didnt, sanctions that even China agreed too and enforced, and calling them on their bullshit. But will anything happen if talks go down. I don’t think so. I think NK is going to ask the US to do something it can’t, like to pull out of SK, which will not happen, and we will just go back to normal with war games and missiles.
Edit. Fixed. Wooo
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
Trump placed two preconditions before any meeting could take place; Stop all ballistic missile tests, and agree to place nuclear disarmament on the meeting agenda. Kim Jong Un just met both of them. It's a significant concession on his part. Trumps hardball and threats paid off.
NK's primary motivation is economic and security based. It wants the sanctions stopped and US presence on the DMZ removed. The US wants the nukes gone. Those can't happen in full. But they can now meet somewhere in the middle.
Something similar to what the US did with the Soviet Union is possible - post-cuban missile crisis. It involved the establishment of a communications back channel, and monitoring of nuclear composition. To this day US and Russia fly over each others territory two times a year photographing nuclear sites.
In return for freezing ballistic missile and nuclear weapons development, and monitoring of its nuclear sites; NK will want economic sweeteners. This would involve lifting the more severe sanctions. Security-wise, the Us may even move it's tripwire forces from the DMZ, and base them somewhere further south. We will know more in May I guess. No prior US president has ever come close to sitting at a table with a NK dictator on neutral territory. It is about to happen. Will probably take place at the DMZ, but more radically, it may even occur in South Korea or North Korea.
NK's primary motivation is economic and security based. It wants the sanctions stopped and US presence on the DMZ removed. The US wants the nukes gone. Those can't happen in full. But they can now meet somewhere in the middle.
Something similar to what the US did with the Soviet Union is possible - post-cuban missile crisis. It involved the establishment of a communications back channel, and monitoring of nuclear composition. To this day US and Russia fly over each others territory two times a year photographing nuclear sites.
In return for freezing ballistic missile and nuclear weapons development, and monitoring of its nuclear sites; NK will want economic sweeteners. This would involve lifting the more severe sanctions. Security-wise, the Us may even move it's tripwire forces from the DMZ, and base them somewhere further south. We will know more in May I guess. No prior US president has ever come close to sitting at a table with a NK dictator on neutral territory. It is about to happen. Will probably take place at the DMZ, but more radically, it may even occur in South Korea or North Korea.
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dolabla
Member
And the man who quite possibly saved the world by just the mere giving of a book has now weighed in on this meeting:
https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/dennis-rodman-praises-trump-for-planned-meeting-with-kim/
Former NBA star Dennis Rodman, who has traveled several times to North Korea and is one of the few Americans to have met its leader, is praising President Donald Trump for planning a summit with Kim Jong Un.
Rodman tells The Associated Press he looks forward to returning to the pariah nation for “basketball diplomacy” in the coming months.
He says: “Well done, President Trump. You’re on the way to a historical meeting no U.S. president has ever done.”
Rodman adds, “Please send my regards to Marshal Kim Jong Un and his family.”
Rodman was speaking by phone soon after the planned summit was announced in Washington — a major surprise after a year of rising tensions over North Korea’s nuclear weapons.
Rodman met Kim in 2013 and 2014.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/dennis-rodman-praises-trump-for-planned-meeting-with-kim/
Former NBA star Dennis Rodman, who has traveled several times to North Korea and is one of the few Americans to have met its leader, is praising President Donald Trump for planning a summit with Kim Jong Un.
Rodman tells The Associated Press he looks forward to returning to the pariah nation for “basketball diplomacy” in the coming months.
He says: “Well done, President Trump. You’re on the way to a historical meeting no U.S. president has ever done.”
Rodman adds, “Please send my regards to Marshal Kim Jong Un and his family.”
Rodman was speaking by phone soon after the planned summit was announced in Washington — a major surprise after a year of rising tensions over North Korea’s nuclear weapons.
Rodman met Kim in 2013 and 2014.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Being rich =\= being intelligent. If I were to hand someone a million dollars, does it suddenly make that person smarter? If anything, the people around him hold him up to not be a complete failure. He would literally have more money if he did nothing with what he inherited from his dad.
Such a dumb leap in logic. He won a popularity contest. Barely. Against someone nobody liked. That doesn't require intelligence.
I judge him based on what I see. He says whatever he thinks will make him the most popular in the moment. He flip flops so much that he turns everything into a story of "which version is true?". He has made countless simple mistakes that get called out constantly.
Inheriting a fortune doesn't require intelligence.
God this place really has gone to pot...There is a reason that no other president has ever negotiated directly with NK...
Nothing has changed in my regards to what has happened...A meeting is just that and nothing more and it is far more telling that NK is the one initiating the conversation and even more telling that our country in not in the driver's seat for these talks. They are in control and I can easily argue that NK has already won...Kim just got the "leader of the free world" to talk to him as an equal...something they've wanted for DECADES. So why now? Simple...Kim sees the polls just the same as us and knows that after November there is little chance to extract any kind of concessions so why not play our leader like the simpleton he is? Have a camera on hand and shake his hand...tell him how big and strong his hands are and ask for stuff...why not?
Those of you equating a meeting to victory really need to take a step back. However I will concede that if NK does disarm (LOL never will) and does so with UN inspectors free to visit anywhere in NK, Trump will in fact deserve the Peace Prize full stop. This is however pure fiction.
lifa-cobex
Member
Yea I would say he should get one.
But it will never ever happen.
Having a nuke is the biggest deterrent for other country's to not fuck with you.
Why would he disarm?
You can't rationalize NK. It's a country with a crazy history, built on crazy with crazy in mind for the future.
I shudder to think what goes on back stage behind the puppet show we have seen.
I would suspect all these courtesy meetings are for show and nothing more.
The way citizens have to act in NK should give anyone an insight into how this country is and has been.
NK will be a thorn in Americas side for many years to come. I don't believe it will be a major one but non the less, something they will always have to keep an eye on.
It's a cold war of sabre rattling.
But it will never ever happen.
Having a nuke is the biggest deterrent for other country's to not fuck with you.
Why would he disarm?
You can't rationalize NK. It's a country with a crazy history, built on crazy with crazy in mind for the future.
I shudder to think what goes on back stage behind the puppet show we have seen.
I would suspect all these courtesy meetings are for show and nothing more.
The way citizens have to act in NK should give anyone an insight into how this country is and has been.
NK will be a thorn in Americas side for many years to come. I don't believe it will be a major one but non the less, something they will always have to keep an eye on.
It's a cold war of sabre rattling.
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Chiefonthis
Neo Member
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cryptoadam
Banned
If Arafat and Obama could get one why not Trump.
Kittehkraken
Member
Grinchy
Banned
If you hand someone a million dollars, and they are able to turn it into 1000 times the original amount of money to become a billionaire, then they couldn't have been too stupid, right?
If I gave you a million dollars, you would not be able to turn it into a billion. Would that make you a moron? I know I couldn't turn a million into a billion in my lifetime. I must handicapped.
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Vicetrailia
Member
Why don't you take a trip over to the tariffs thread and read the entire thing so you can get up to date on the whole thing. He lost 25,000 jobs with his solar panel tariffs, but that wasn't a fuck up at all (Not being sarcastic, it's apart of reducing China's dominance).
We're talking about big potatoes, and how he initially mishandled tariffs before making concessions.
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Vicetrailia
Member
You actually don't know this because you dont have Trump's upbringing. Pending your temperment you could do far better.
Also trump had multimillions at his disposal, assets and companies that his father started.
xStoyax
Banned
Vicetrailia
Member
So now you're changing the subject to overarching jobs, which Trump didn't affect through policy.
So Trump inherited a rolling economy, that's how it's supposed to be. Threatening to reduce some momentum in a rolling economy over 150,000 US steel jobs isn't smart. We're all supposed to be winning right now (but we aren't relative to inequality, which isn't a Republican interests).
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mmmhmmm.....go on
Can you explain the "record high stock market" part of this? I mean...from Oct 2013 to 2015 the stock market was higher than it's ever been in its history. The Dow went from 6,443 points to close to 20k under Obama.
This is like a grade school level of understanding of the world economy.
How does that make any sense?
TrainedRage
Banned
I mean Trump may be "dumb" and "racist" and "etc" but i'm surprised at how well he has done politically in the rest of the world. Meeting with Kim, Jerusalem, Paris accord, impact on Brexit, positive relations with Russia etc... He is un-apologetically making America look stronger.
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Vicetrailia
Member
I guess that's Trump supporters take on it. *shrug*.
Kittehkraken
Member
This?
The Solar Industry lost 10,000 jobs last year because of a lack of demand from installations. Electric (Solar, Cars etc..) is currently an unstable industry that is constantly getting bailed out with more and more tax payer money. Tesla wouldn't even exist as a company without the Government constantly bailing them out. But its okay though, Elon made a flame thrower. The internet loved it.
Vicetrailia
Member
In case you missed my edit, I'm not criticizing the solar panel tariffs or calling it a bad thing. It's a grey area, with a possible positive future outlook in a newer industry dominated by China (where we'd like to be leading). Our corporations had bad business strategies, and thus the situation today. The Tariffs caused more job losses, but again, that's just from fallout from Chinese cost woes. Its not a big deal in solar when we have much bigger issues that we wanna reverse.
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Damerman
Member
What the fuck is this whataboutism as if its adding to the discussion?
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Oh don't be dense. He inherited his father's multi million dollar industry and a bunch of trusts, and the business did the rest. If you just handed someone a million dollars? Sure, it would be hard to make money if you cannot diversify on that money, as you'll have to take risks with it and invest.
He got a multi million dollar retail industry and like a fourth of manhattan at his disposal that he inherited. Things that have only went up in value for equity. That's a part of where the wealth came from. And honestly, how sure are we that he's actually a billionaire? He keeps the books hidden from everyone. He's too scared to show his tax returns and the amount of debt he's in.
And are we really considering those who make a lot of money to be smart? Without question? Really?
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Meeting with Kim is honestly a sign of weakness unless he really pulls something out of this. Kim is the one who looks strong here. He got the top guy of the strongest military in the world to come meet with him in person to personally give him whatever he wants for his nukes. Basically it tells the world "Hey, got nukes? Cause that's how you get a table with the big boys. You should all get some too!"
"Positive relations with Russia" get the hell out of here. The rest of the world hates this. We look like the bitch in this situation. We've gotten nothing of benefit out of Russia, while Russia is getting away with whatever they want.
Last I checked, Brexit was a giant cluster fuck that ended up exploding in their faces.
Jerusalem? US got jack shit out of that as well.
Exactly what did we do with any of these things made us look stronger?
Vicetrailia
Member
Trump started with a million = Mitt and Ann Romney "struggling" through college.
It's laughable to everyone not born with a silver spoon. Both of those dudes were raised and groomed to do what they do. Mitt Romney is actually smart though.
It's laughable to everyone not born with a silver spoon. Both of those dudes were raised and groomed to do what they do. Mitt Romney is actually smart though.
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
And look where that got them. North Korea is now a nuclear armed state with global ICBM capability. Clearly a losing strategy. Clearly time to try something radically different.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Cool, now we just told every country "Hey, want something from the US? Build Nukes!"
Cato
Banned
Someone that has a money and makes it grow over decades is absolutely not an idiot. The idiots that get money are quickly removed of their money.
Someone that manages to hold on to it for decades is at least in a financial sense quite capable.
Dump luck does not happen continuously over decades.
I make a lot of money, well relatively compared to the average slob, and I consider this due to my skills and intelligence.
I have been making a lot of money, comparatively, for a long long time. There is no sudden dumb luck about it.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
These absolutes make no sense. Basically, it boils down to "I make money, and I think I'm smart, so everyone who makes money must be smart, or else they wouldn't be rich." Next you'll be telling me that all poor people are dumb and/or lazy. It's basically the ultimate fallacy.
SoulUnison
Banned
Does the man who suggested murdering innocent men, women and children as a deterrant to "terrorists" deserve a Nobel Peace Prize?
The man who just casually suggested one of the most atrocious war crimes imaginable as though he was negotiating the price at a car dealership?
Fucking really, OP?
You're...not sounding anywhere near as convincing as you think you are.
Of course people with generous means want to believe they earned it of their own merit and capabilities.
You're falling non-ironically straight into the trap of thinking that money equals merit.
But then, you use terms like "average slob," so maybe I shouldn't be surprised?
The man who just casually suggested one of the most atrocious war crimes imaginable as though he was negotiating the price at a car dealership?
Fucking really, OP?
You're...not sounding anywhere near as convincing as you think you are.
Of course people with generous means want to believe they earned it of their own merit and capabilities.
You're falling non-ironically straight into the trap of thinking that money equals merit.
But then, you use terms like "average slob," so maybe I shouldn't be surprised?
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We’ve only given them a meeting right now. I think we should wait for the outcome from that before panicking about giving up stuff.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
It brought super power America to the table with a country literally starving it's own people. That's already a sign to everyone else.
We should not have a conversation with them then and just continue down the same path we have been on?
TheShadowLord
Member
trump going to North Korea is going to make or break the potential talks with North Korea nukes of dissolving their nuclear program. Half a chance he could make it worse. If he can't get it right, there's no way he could get Iran to the table should they ever create their own Nuclear Program.
Bolivar687
Banned
Rogue states have been operating under this assumption since Hiroshima.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Uh, do people actually believe Trump will meet North Korea? The White House has already downplayed the potential of a meeting. It's just another example of Trump shooting his mouth off without thinking.
bucyou
Member
NK advised they will stop all testing of weapons and other concessions, while the US already said all wargames and drills with SK will continue as usual.
Maybe try doing some research, the NK regime usually attaches outrageous demands and concessions to hold a meeting, this time they are voluntarily offering them while asking the US for nothing in return.
You seem like the type of person who was freaking out a mere few months ago, screaming WW3 is happening any second, and now you are freaking out that theres a chance we can denuclearize NK diplomatically. Try not to be so partisan!
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Tesla paid back its government loan in full, including interest. 9 years early.
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TrainedRage
Banned
I mean Yes? Obama ACTUALLY killed 117 or more innocent people with robots. He still won right?
http://www.newsweek.com/strikes-during-obamas-presidency-killed-many-117-civilians-545080