Support NeoGAF

[Shouta]

This is what people who defend the film have been saying for the past 10 months....

I get what lessons and Rian Johnson was trying to preach, and I AGREE WITH THEM, but it's just so odd that it was in this movie. Becoming stronger from failure is the main theme of this movie....uh, Rian....this is a universally undertood concept..."What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"

I've got no problem with not enjoying it on a storytelling level even though I personally did. I only really take issue with the idea that this couldn't be Luke in the film which is what I see most in respect to this topic. I think it makes sense for him and the arc he goes through is pretty great.

I definitely agree with you that it's weird to see it in this film. I would have preferred to see this in like the last film of the trilogy especially with a lot of the shots in there. That last shot of Luke on the cliff hit hard but it would have been even more impactful as the ending of Ep 9.

Oh people don't talk about this enough but:

Snoke implies that the dark side and the light have some symbiotic relationship where when one side grows stronger..the other side grows equally strong....uh...what?

That makes everything seem so pointless.

It's used as the explanation of why Rey is so strong in the force (still doesn't explain her skill set).

So no matter what happens.....both the light and the dark will be equal.

Oookkaaaay...so why should we care now?

Hasn't that always been the case with the Force though? They talked a lot about balance in the previous movies and to provide that equilibrium, each side would need to continue to grow stronger as the other does.

The thing is Luke realizes that his anger was getting to him and he pulls himself back. He ignores Yoda, Palpatine's, and Ben's commands and chooses his own path. It's the last step in him becoming the Jedi he wants to be and his entire character arc. Luke in TLJ is entirely contingent on ignoring that and having Luke consider the one thing he would never do as shown on screen previously. Could events spiral out of control to where Luke has that moment of weakness? Maybe, but there needs to be some development in Luke's history and character to support getting from end of RotJ Luke to TLJ flashback Luke. Instead, we get the flimsiest of setups because Johnson doesnt put character first.

I agree that that moment in ROTJ was the last step in Luke becoming his own Jedi but I don't agree that TLJ Luke is contingent on ignoring that. I think it's consistent for Luke. You have to remember that Luke had that moment that he wanted to kill Kylo Ren in the hut but it subsided and he wasn't going to do anything. That's exactly what he did with Vader when he got angry. He pulled back and continued the confrontation properly. I think Luke was consistent in his actions in both cases. Where it differs is the consequences that.

I agree with you that I would like more events to explore Luke's history and character but not so much for that night with Kylo but for his thinking process after what occurred or additional events. For example, if he had gone after Kylo right away and failed to bring him back. Not only that but it only increased Kylo's rampaging with Snoke thus weighing even more on Luke. I could see that an extra kick to make him exile himself. Maybe something like along those lines.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Hasn't that always been the case with the Force though? They talked a lot about balance in the previous movies and to provide that equilibrium, each side would need to continue to grow stronger as the other does.

They didn't mean it like that. That would make no sense. No one benefits from a dark side of the Force existing. The Jedi's goal was to eliminate all Sith, and return the Force to its natural state, where its power wasn't abused for personal gain. It's not explained all that well in any of the movies, but that was their goal, and what Anakin would supposedly achieve according to some prophecy.

Rian Johnson took the Force and just mangled it into a mess that makes no sense within the lore of the movies, and took it into a direction no one likes.

 

[Denton]

It's amazing how many people out there first enjoyed the movie, but then had their opinions swayed once they read online. "You know, you're right. They were going over serious info, that ruins it for me because doubles in the back were talking instead of listening! Kills the whole mood!" Reviews are the biggest reason we don't enjoy films as much anymore. If a New Hope came out today, I'm confident the world would shit on it.

Look, there were some crappy scenes in the movie. Plinkett wasn't really wrong in any of his points. I have no love loss for Disney inserting Liberal propaganda into everything we see. With that said, everything Star Wars is going to be criticized. TFA was torn apart for being too much of the same. Biggest complaint. Then TLJ was too different. What do they do to make everyone happy? Really?

I fucking hated it way before credits rolled right in the theatre. Poorly written, cinematically well shot piece of shit.

 

[Shouta]

They didn't mean it like that. That would make no sense. No one benefits from a dark side of the Force existing. The Jedi's goal was to eliminate all Sith, and return the Force to its natural state, where its power wasn't abused for personal gain. It's not explained all that well in any of the movies, but that was their goal, and what Anakin would supposedly achieve according to some prophecy.

Rian Johnson took the Force and just mangled it into a mess that makes no sense within the lore of the movies, and took it into a direction no one likes.

Hey, another Stars War thing that's not explained very well.

They probably didn't mean it like that but that's how it comes across. Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force in the prequels but that didn't make sense that he'd be doing it for the Jedi Order. They seemed to be the dominate force in the galaxy at the time with the Sith garnering power. With Anakin falling to the dark side, the power balanced out then went in favor of the Sith. In the original trilogy, Luke is that force for the Jedi when the Sith/Empire/Vader were the dominate force.

It kind of jives with the idea that the Force is a neutral power.

 

[Easlye]

I fucking hated it way before credits rolled right in the theatre. Poorly written, cinematically well shot piece of shit.

It's a film that doesn't hold up the moment you start thinking about it in a remotely critical way. Online discussion only served to highlight this.

 

[PkunkFury]

I agree that that moment in ROTJ was the last step in Luke becoming his own Jedi but I don't agree that TLJ Luke is contingent on ignoring that. I think it's consistent for Luke. You have to remember that Luke had that moment that he wanted to kill Kylo Ren in the hut but it subsided and he wasn't going to do anything. That's exactly what he did with Vader when he got angry. He pulled back and continued the confrontation properly. I think Luke was consistent in his actions in both cases. Where it differs is the consequences that.

While I understand the idea that Luke's provoking of Kylo was a poor decision made in a moment of passion similar to his attacking Vader, it's worth pointing out that the problems with Luke's scene in TLJ go beyond him pulling the lightsaber. Many of us take issue with the fact that Luke is creeping into his nephew's room at night (with a weapon no less!) to mind rape him to begin with. Him pulling that weapon is the icing on the cake.

I agree with you that I would like more events to explore Luke's history and character but not so much for that night with Kylo but for his thinking process after what occurred or additional events. For example, if he had gone after Kylo right away and failed to bring him back. Not only that but it only increased Kylo's rampaging with Snoke thus weighing even more on Luke. I could see that an extra kick to make him exile himself. Maybe something like along those lines.

This I agree with. We can believe anything about a character with enough context. Seeing more history where Luke tries and fails to get through to Kylo, where Kylo blocks his true intentions so Luke must pry them out of him (which still comes off weird to the audience, as the movies show the audience that Kylo is indeed incredibly conflicted despite Luke's claims of irredemption, but whatevs), etc., would paint Luke's actions in a better light. But of course, that would be way too many flashbacks. Honestly, I think it'd have been better if no definitive turning point for Kylo were given and we just had to accept that Luke "failed" in a nebulous way. Same is we did for Obi-Wan and Darth before the prequels came along

 

[Fuz]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

 

[EviLore]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

TLJ has a 46% audience score on RT and suffered an enormous 69% second weekend box office drop.

Solo followed that up with the worst opening weekend ever for a Star Wars film and the lowest overall box office gross of any Star Wars film by a huge margin at $393 million WW, compared to >$1 billion for all the other Disney SW films, $1B, $650M, $850M for the respective prequels (not adjusted for inflation; attack of the clones is more like $910M adjusted), and whatever truckloads the OT raked in.

 

[pramod]

The last 30 minutes of Rogue One wasnt bad, the best space battle since ROTJ.

 

[kunonabi]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

Not me. I gave them 3 chances, and I only saw TLJ in theaters because we had free tickets and my dad wanted to go, and I'm not giving them any more chances. I'm just done with Disney SW altogether.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Not me. I gave them 3 chances, and I only saw TLJ in theaters because we had free tickets and my dad wanted to go, and I'm not giving them anymore. I'm just done with Disney SW altogether.

Did your dad like it at least?

 

[Singular7]

The awfulness that is TLJ is redeemed by laughing at how bad it is while watching this review.

 

[kunonabi]

Did you dad like it at least?

Nope, it was too jokey for him. He disliked Thor Ragnarok for the same reason. He enjoys TFA and Rogue One though.

 

[JimiNutz]

The last 30 minutes of Rogue One wasnt bad, the best space battle since ROTJ.

The last 30 mins of Rogue One was pure Star Wars porn. Nothing in TFA or TLJ come remotely close to being as good as that final battle scene.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

Probably not, I just don't give a shit anymore.

The last 30 mins of Rogue One was pure Star Wars porn. Nothing in TFA or TLJ come remotely close to being as good as that final battle scene.

The problem with Rogue One is I didn't care about any of those characters, but it did have some good action and cool visuals.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

PS - Anyone watch "Lucasfilm/The Last Jedi vs. Marvel Studios/Infinity war: The Marvel difference" on youtube?

This video perfectly illustrates why...while both under Disney, the MCU is killing it and Star Wars is not these days.

Wow! She needs to be THE salesman for the story and she blew it in those comments. Honestly, she doesn’t deserve the job and probably never did.

 

[Kadayi]

Then again Blade Runner 2049 was excellent, maybe you just need the right talent, imagine what Denis Villeneuve could have done with Star Wars.

I think Villeneuve did a great job with Blade Runner 2049, but that was a resultant of having genuine love and veneration for the original film and writers, cast and crew who were equally focussed on making a worthy sequel. As a director though I couldn't see him making a Marvel or Star Wars film because he's very studied in terms of how he directs with a lot of emphasis on the performances of the actors involved.

 

[JimiNutz]

problem with Rogue One is I didn't care about any of those characters, but it did have some good action and cool visuals.

Yeah I totally understand this criticism, especially on first viewing. Ultimately all of the main characters are disposable since they all die anyway but I suppose that's not necessarily an excuse for poor/boring characters.

Upon second and third viewing some of the characters did grow on me but they are mostly completely forgettable on first viewing. They definitely could have done a better job in that regard.

 

[MayauMiao]

Jyn Erso had no personality. She came off as stiff as a broom with facial expression that rivals Kristen Stewart and as a result nobody can feel attached to the main character. Rogue One's saving grace was the space battle.

 

[brian0057]

That cant be legal...

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Yeah I totally understand this criticism, especially on first viewing. Ultimately all of the main characters are disposable since they all die anyway but I suppose that's not necessarily an excuse for poor/boring characters.

Upon second and third viewing some of the characters did grow on me but they are mostly completely forgettable on first viewing. They definitely could have done a better job in that regard.

I only saw Rogue One the one time, so yeah, bad first impression.

I think Villeneuve did a great job with Blade Runner 2049, but that was a resultant of having genuine love and veneration for the original film and writers, cast and crew who were equally focussed on making a worthy sequel. As a director though I couldn't see him making a Marvel or Star Wars film because he's very studied in terms of how he directs with a lot of emphasis on the performances of the actors involved.

Well if not Villeneuve himself, someone with just the same passion and talent.

Blade Runner 2049 proves there's nothing wrong with the concept of bringing back these old franchises, you just need to find the right talent who actually give a shit about the movie.

For starters you need to find the right angle on the story, Blade Runner 2049's "what if it was known from the start the Blade Runner really is a replicant?" was in a word... fucking genius. And it found a way to bring back Harrison Ford in a way that worked, he wasn't just doing the same thing like in The Force Awakens.

And Blade Runner 2049 avoided the trap of just being a nostalgia wank, it is what it should have been and that's a continuation of the story and an expansion of the movie's world, not just "hey, remember Blade Runner?", it actually feels very different than the first movie, but that's what you want, something new.

 

[pel1300]

I only saw Rogue One the one time, so yeah, bad first impression.



Well if not Villeneuve himself, someone with just the same passion and talent.

Blade Runner 2049 proves there's nothing wrong with the concept of bringing back these old franchises, you just need to find the right talent who actually give a shit about the movie.

For starters you need to find the right angle on the story, Blade Runner 2049's "what if it was known from the start the Blade Runner really is a replicant?" was in a word... fucking genius. And it found a way to bring back Harrison Ford in a way that worked, he wasn't just doing the same thing like in The Force Awakens.

And Blade Runner 2049 avoided the trap of just being a nostalgia wank, it is what it should have been and that's a continuation of the story and an expansion of the movie's world, not just "hey, remember Blade Runner?", it actually feels very different than the first movie, but that's what you want, something new.

I was really impressed with how, as a sequel to a 1980s classic, it brought something new and unexpected in a good way.

Blade Runner 2049 definitely "subverted expectations" LOL

God I hate the word subvert now because of TLJ and Rian.

 

[Kadayi]

Well if not Villeneuve himself, someone with just the same passion and talent.

Blade Runner 2049 proves there's nothing wrong with the concept of bringing back these old franchises, you just need to find the right talent who actually give a shit about the movie.

For starters you need to find the right angle on the story, Blade Runner 2049's "what if it was known from the start the Blade Runner really is a replicant?" was in a word... fucking genius. And it found a way to bring back Harrison Ford in a way that worked, he wasn't just doing the same thing like in The Force Awakens.

And Blade Runner 2049 avoided the trap of just being a nostalgia wank, it is what it should have been and that's a continuation of the story and an expansion of the movie's world, not just "hey, remember Blade Runner?", it actually feels very different than the first movie, but that's what you want, something new.

See you're tapping the root of the problem with the latest Star Wars trilogy right there. The actual truth of things is that TFA was a regression rather than a progression of the Star Wars franchise. because instead of evolving the universe as Lucas left it at the end of RoTJ, imagining a post-empire galaxy 30 years on (in the same way The Blade Runner team did with 2049) Abrams just came in and undid everything by pulling the First Order out of his ass, so he could shove a 70-year-old man back on board the Millennium Falcon for one last ride. Sure people cheered and waved their lightsabers around at the midnight premiere at every memberberry Abrams squeezed out of A New Hope, but the brute reality is trading off of childhood nostalgia to that extent and not really bringing anything new to the table creatively was a huge mistake. There was a real opportunity there to bring together a beloved group of characters in the form of Luke, Leia, Han & Lando back and have them gracefully hand over the baton to a new generation for fans to get behind a completely new threat to the galaxy, but that opportunity was completely squandered through poor writing and a desire to evoke the past versus evolve the world building.

 

[pel1300]

lol Colin Trevorrow and Mark Hamill throwing a jab at The Last Jedi (note: this was when Hamill in an interview hinted he wasn't interested in coming back for IX)

 

[Sapiens]

TLJ is a perfectly cromulent movie - but holy shit, did they waste huge opportunities. We didn't need Luke to be Yoda 2.0.

 

[pel1300]

Rey arrives on the island:

Luke: Rey...?
Rey: You know me???
Luke: I almost lost hope...I've been stranded here for so many years. ....we need to talk..but let's get off this island ASAP.
Rey: How do you know me?

Then it turns out Luke trained her ever since she was just a toddler abandoned by her parents...before even establishing his Jedi academy (hence why she and Kylo never met). So she is not Luke's daughter, but he felt a paternal bond with her. And saw so much potential.

...then shit happens...Luke feels she is in danger so he hides her on Jakku...and that flashback of her crying as a little girl is her actually looking at Luke leaving her.

So Luke hid her on Jakku like Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

It is strange to me that Hamill doesn't understand Luke's character in TLJ at all. For all of the problems the film has, Luke's character and story works in the film and jives with the situation set-up by TFA. Whether you like it or not is a separate matter but it's pretty easy to understand what happened with Luke.

how is it strange? Luke was a character created by George Lucas, and Hamill as an actor had worked hand in hand with this man during the original run of films to create him. apparently he was given no backstory for TFA or TLJ (outside of one event out of 30 years (which is repeated)), and Johnson was as much help with backstory. like the Hamill was told to make it up, and later they will come out with a movie that will prove his "dumb fan theory" wrong. Hamill accepted this, and has stated publicly, like a professional forcing a smile for the good of himself, his company, his fans, that the back story will be for sale in comics and novels and EU products.

supposedly Luke was in control of some Jedi training order, he had all these students, found these mysterious texts and jedi tree and ancient temple. decades of events had occured since we last saw him, but TLJ only provides one scene we can reflect on. his entire story for 30 years is summarize in one scene that is told by two different people. when Vader in Empire revealed that he was the father, many people, including James Earl Jones, thought he was lying. this is understandable, the movies are constantly re-writing and retconning themselves. because of the way they are written, it is necessitated. Vader was not Luke's father during the writing of the first SW, the movie itself presented an entirely different depiction of him.

but by this point, Luke had plenty of other scenes with Vader to draw upon for context. it fostered this postmodern, re-writable form of storytelling. Luke had encounter Vader as a hallucination on Dagoba, as a Tie Fighter-piloting nemesis in the trench run, as the dark force user who killed his only surviving connection with his father as they fled the Death Star. there is all of this context to pull from. TLJ gives no context. it tells us to make it up. what's worse, it tells us that what we make up will be mocked when a product comes out that makes it obsolete. tbh it feels like being judged by a product.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

also fwiw Luke's entire "story" in TFA - that he shows up at the end as an old isolated jedi hermit - was just taken from an early George Lucas draft of the original Star Wars. same thing with Snoke's gold outfit - Emperor Cos Dashit had a similar gold robe.

 

[eot]

Like holy shit, she robs him of the one substantial thing Finn actually does in these movies, which directly results in the rebellion losing even more of their already dwindling forces. They didn't have to frame it so the rebellion is getting blown the fuck apart as they hug though, such a weird decision.

You don't get it, love and holding hands will win against evil

 

[Weiji]

You don't get it, love and holding hands will win against evil

When your enemies kill you, you win.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

See you're tapping the root of the problem with the latest Star Wars trilogy right there. The actual truth of things is that TFA was a regression rather than a progression of the Star Wars franchise. because instead of evolving the universe as Lucas left it at the end of RoTJ, imagining a post-empire galaxy 30 years on (in the same way The Blade Runner team did with 2049) Abrams just came in and undid everything by pulling the First Order out of his ass, so he could shove a 70-year-old man back on board the Millennium Falcon for one last ride. Sure people cheered and waved their lightsabers around at the midnight premiere at every memberberry Abrams squeezed out of A New Hope, but the brute reality is trading off of childhood nostalgia to that extent and not really bringing anything new to the table creatively was a huge mistake. There was a real opportunity there to bring together a beloved group of characters in the form of Luke, Leia, Han & Lando back and have them gracefully hand over the baton to a new generation for fans to get behind a completely new threat to the galaxy, but that opportunity was completely squandered through poor writing and a desire to evoke the past versus evolve the world building.

No. Abrams did great with reinvigorating Star Wars after the abysmal prequel crap. He brought back the excitement and I loved all the characters. It was Rian’s job to move the universe forward after Abrams put him in solid footing. I’m not saying Empire 2.0 (first order) was a perfect plot device, but it wasn’t horrible either.

 

[MilkyJoe]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

I'm the biggest Star Wars fan I know. I saw TPM in the cinema, passed on AotC and only went to see RotS because I got a free ticket. I've managed to ignore those turds for 19 years, not going to see 9 off the back of TLJ is no hardship, i've not even seen Solo... The desire to see 9 is well and truly in the negative. Episode 8 killed the trilogy dead. It's a write off. Wake me up in 5 years when they reboot it.


Just a quick one,

If Luke can hold Leia's hand, give her some dice and kiss her on the forehead, as a force projection, then why can't he just kill Kylo (and the entire attacking force) as an invulnerable Jedi warrior. He can clearly interact with his environment. Rian Johnson is terrible.

 

[Fuz]

Abrams did great with reinvigorating Star Wars after the abysmal prequel crap.

Holy shit, NO!
abrams is one of the greatest plagues of Hollywood.

 

[Grinchy]

If Luke can hold Leia's hand, give her some dice and kiss her on the forehead, as a force projection, then why can't he just kill Kylo (and the entire attacking force) as an invulnerable Jedi warrior. He can clearly interact with his environment. Rian Johnson is terrible.

Hell, Ghost Yoda could have shot a lightning bolt into the laser battering ram. Or, Chewie could have initiated light speed to ram the Falcon into it. Rian established all these new ways of attacking but they can only be used for plot conveniences.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hell, Ghost Yoda could have shot a lightning bolt into the laser battering ram. Or, Chewie could have initiated light speed to ram the Falcon into it. Rian established all these new ways of attacking but they can only be used for plot conveniences.

Right on. The whole movie can be applied to the prefix "but why didn't they just..."

 

[Nicktendo86]

One thing I love about RLM is they still act like guys from the 2000s, ie they call it as they see it, as people used to be allowed to do, if they think a movie is shitty they'll say so and not give a shit if it pisses off feminists or liberals, as seen with both TLJ and Ghostbusters.

In fact let's stop and think about how absurd it is that we live in times where people will defend movies for political reasons, not documentaries, just movies that are supposed to be entertainment.

The Half in the bag review of Ghostbusters was probably the best and most on point review I've ever seen of a film, outside the ultra in depth Plinkett reviews. They just nailed it.

 

[Lanrutcon]

lol Colin Trevorrow and Mark Hamill throwing a jab at The Last Jedi (note: this was when Hamill in an interview hinted he wasn't interested in coming back for IX)

I think Mark should just stay away at this point. Let us remember him for the original trilogy and his outstanding voice work in other areas.

 

[Nicktendo86]

TLJ has a 46% audience score on RT and suffered an enormous 69% second weekend box office drop.

Solo followed that up with the worst opening weekend ever for a Star Wars film and the lowest overall box office gross of any Star Wars film by a huge margin at $393 million WW, compared to >$1 billion for all the other Disney SW films, $1B, $650M, $850M for the respective prequels (not adjusted for inflation; attack of the clones is more like $910M adjusted), and whatever truckloads the OT raked in.

I was born in 1986 so I wasn't around for the original releases, however I saw ANH and ESB in cinema when the special editions were released (couldn't see ROTJ sadly), I saw each of the prequel and episodes 7 & 8. Episode 9 will be the first Star Wars mainline film I don't go to watch in the cinema which in which I had an opportunity to. I doubt I will be the only one.

 

[pel1300]

I was born in 1986 so I wasn't around for the original releases, however I saw ANH and ESB in cinema when the special editions were released (couldn't see ROTJ sadly), I saw each of the prequel and episodes 7 & 8. Episode 9 will be the first Star Wars mainline film I don't go to watch in the cinema which in which I had an opportunity to. I doubt I will be the only one.

Out of curiousity...what did you think of the added CGI to the special editions...and did you ever get a chance to see the theatrical versions?

I've introduced Star Wars to some people....and despite my discouragement they always watch the Episodes in chronological order, not release order.

I ask them which trilogy they liked more and they respond with 1 to 3 because the CGI in 4 to 6 looks distracting and outdated and that episodes 4 to 6 feel repetitive storywise.....SMH!!!

The impact of being introduced to the OT's brilliant score, getting to know Yoda, Obi-wan, being introduced to all the different aliens, etc....all of that is ruined if you watch in chronological order.

Oh and it ruins the "I am your father" twist: Now wait...before you tell me "Everyone knows that"....I live in Asia where even though most people know "I am your father"...they don't know that it comes from Star Wars....or if they do...they don't know that it specifically refers to Luke and Vader.

 

[TheContact]

finally watched the movie, then the review, and I thought it was spot on. i thought the movie was enjoyable but as a star wars movie it was lacking a lot of what made star wars great. for example, not a single lightsaber duel (the jedi projection doesn't count)
i also really hated what they did to luke...they ruined his character and i don't know why.
i also thought it was funny that he said he went to the most undetectable place in the galaxy yet it used to be a jedi place...seems like a pretty obvious place to go.

 

[Ulysses 31]

i also really hated what they did to luke...they ruined his character and i don't know why.

"Letting old things die" is a running theme in TLJ and just bad writing to kill off established characters to make room for new ones.

 

[TheContact]

"Letting old things die" is a running theme in TLJ and just bad writing to kill off established characters to make room for new ones.

i was even OK with him dying, it was his attitude that made no sense

 

[pel1300]

Rose serves as representation for NERDS! Rian wanted a real world nerd type to be represented, apparently...

"When I wrote that character of Rose...she was genuinely a nerd, the kind of person I would hang out with in high school, and she doesn't feel like She belongs in a Star Wars movie" -Rian Johnson

Wow, LOL...Rian is sooo the guy who got bullied in High School. He comes across that way: passive aggressive behavior on twitter, the way he speaks, his fruity deameanor on set.

 

[ruvikx]

Wow, LOL...Rian is sooo the guy who got bullied in High School. He comes across that way: passive aggressive behavior on twitter, the way he speaks, his fruity deameanor on set.

It makes sense, i.e. he's bitter as hell & his sarcasm/passive aggressiveness is a shield which he has perfected over decades. I wouldn't be surprised if Rian hated Star Wars when he was a kid (& his classmates who loved it) considering how gleefully he butchered the whole lore.

 

[Grinchy]

I was born in 1986 so I wasn't around for the original releases, however I saw ANH and ESB in cinema when the special editions were released (couldn't see ROTJ sadly), I saw each of the prequel and episodes 7 & 8. Episode 9 will be the first Star Wars mainline film I don't go to watch in the cinema which in which I had an opportunity to. I doubt I will be the only one.

I was born around the same time and I didn't even watch the original trilogy in their entirety until I was like 28 years old. It just never appealed to me and for some reason we didn't own the VHS tapes when I was a kid.

I thought they were ok when I finally watched. I'm not some big Star Wars fan. It's very easy for me to never spend another dime on a SW product for the rest of my life and I think that's what I'll do.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Out of curiousity...what did you think of the added CGI to the special editions...and did you ever get a chance to see the theatrical versions?

I've introduced Star Wars to some people....and despite my discouragement they always watch the Episodes in chronological order, not release order.

I ask them which trilogy they liked more and they respond with 1 to 3 because the CGI in 4 to 6 looks distracting and outdated and that episodes 4 to 6 feel repetitive storywise.....SMH!!!

The impact of being introduced to the OT's brilliant score, getting to know Yoda, Obi-wan, being introduced to all the different aliens, etc....all of that is ruined if you watch in chronological order.

Oh and it ruins the "I am your father" twist: Now wait...before you tell me "Everyone knows that"....I live in Asia where even though most people know "I am your father"...they don't know that it comes from Star Wars....or if they do...they don't know that it specifically refers to Luke and Vader.

At the time I didn't know any other versions so I loved them for what they were, when I got the VHS tapes I watched all of the documentaries and I thought the changes were great and really well done. It was only when I got older that I realised the changes were awful and nowadays only watch the original versions on DVD!

 

[PrCat88]

...and you're all gonna go in teathers in droves to see the next one.

To be honest, Episode 9 might be the first mainline entry I skip, at least opening weekend. You underestimate just how bad The Last Jedi was.

With every other Star Wars film (even the mediocre prequels) they all ended in a place leaving me wanting more. Interested in where they go from here. With where TLJ ended I don't really care. There is nowhere any of these characters have left off where I'm genuinely awaiting the next.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I was born in 1986 so I wasn't around for the original releases, however I saw ANH and ESB in cinema when the special editions were released (couldn't see ROTJ sadly), I saw each of the prequel and episodes 7 & 8. Episode 9 will be the first Star Wars mainline film I don't go to watch in the cinema which in which I had an opportunity to. I doubt I will be the only one.

i was born in '81 and i swear i saw some of the original run in the theater during a re-release or something. by the time the Special Edition came out i was a teenager and nostalgic for Star Wars & playing the SNES/DOS games and stuff and was super hyped. we bought the VHS copies and watched them over and over waiting for the SE. the SE changed it all up but SW is always changing. ever since during filming of the first movie the series is constantly changing, it is constantly re-writing and retconning itself. this is enshrined in Obi Wan's infamous "Certain point of view" speech from ROTJ, where he basically tries to defend Lucas's shitty writing to the audience.

for me, ESB is the pinnacle, it is the most potent. like the best serial, it is smack dab in the middle of the action, brimming with potentiality & operatic strangeness. the original version shows the Emperor and his face is a video composite of a lady's mouth and a chimp's eyes, something that would be bizarre even in an episode of "Twin Peaks".

SE was fun to see in the theater on opening night w your friends. we thought the CGI was pretty cool but that what they did to ROTJ was so horrible and utterly cringeworthy, i felt so embarrassed at the way they ruined Jabba's palace. the replacement Ewok song was a big letdown and made the movie ending significantly worse. i could tell things were going downhill. by the time the prequels came out i was in college, i was getting high and in a band and stuff, so the b-movie exploitation nature of SW really appealed to me. saw AOTC for 99cents stoned in a dollar theater and loved it. rewatching the prequels recently was fun. yeah the acting sucks, but the sets are gorgeous, the backgrounds are so wonderful and imaginative, the shots of spaceships taking off are poured with pure unencumbered genre love, the films are living sci fi paperbacks.

 

[moon knight]

It is strange to me that Hamill doesn't understand Luke's character in TLJ at all. For all of the problems the film has, Luke's character and story works in the film and jives with the situation set-up by TFA.

It might make sense in the single movie, but it doesn't in the context of the entire saga, including The Force Awakens, because it completely disregard the major plot point of the previous movie, which is the "map" for the location of Luke Skywalker. That is the McGuffin on which the entire plot of TFA rotates, and it's rendered useless and illogical by the new characterization of Luke.

Whether you like it or not is a separate matter but it's pretty easy to understand what happened with Luke.

It's easy to understand what happen to him, yes. But it doesn't make sense because the actions of Luke are inconsistent with the character established in the original trilogy.

 

[pel1300]

Anyone heard of "The Little Kid Test" for rating storytelling?? Sounds like a good way to judge if a blockbuster has a story that makes sense:



This guy says:

If you are unable to explain what is going on in a summer blockbuster to a kid - the movie failed..

"When a little kid next to you asks you a question about the plot, and you are not able to give a coherent answer that makes the kid go 'Oh, okay that makes sense', then you don't have a cohesive story"

I wish Plinkett would do a little kids test thing.