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The GameCube Was Nintendo's Worse Home Console Failure.
- Thread starter Freedom Gate Co.
- Start date
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
The Gamecube was their worst-selling console up to that point, if that's what you're trying to say. I agree. However, I don't see why that is the only consideration here. Gamecube (22M) sold 9 million fewer than its predecessor the N64 (33M).
But get this: the N64 was a decline of 16 million compared to the SNES's 49 Million. Ooops! A sharper decline than from N64 to Gamecube.
GCN was merely the end of the N64's trajectory. Nintendo did an admirable job trying to make the Gamecube relevant.
The Wii had a ton more games. That's a fact. There's no accounting for taste but a lot of it was good stuff. Wii is littered with diamonds in the rough. Get with the times and investigate the library.
No, I think gaming has gotten so large that Nintendo is chasing a genuine market that is becoming more and more distinct from the one that Sony and Microsoft are chasing. And at the end of the day, a lot of people buy what they like and they aren't thinking about the company's history. Only nerds like us are thinking to themselves "look how far Nintendo has fallen".
Chittagong
Gold Member
Put me to the “Wii U was the worse console” camp.
It really was a sad console with very little unique output or reason to exist. I had one and enjoyed most of the handful of original games available for it. I mean, while it was a disaster too, GameCube had a good number of novel original games. I mean, look at this list of Top 50 definitive GameCube games
https://splodinator.com/the-definitive-50-gamecube-games/
It really was a sad console with very little unique output or reason to exist. I had one and enjoyed most of the handful of original games available for it. I mean, while it was a disaster too, GameCube had a good number of novel original games. I mean, look at this list of Top 50 definitive GameCube games
https://splodinator.com/the-definitive-50-gamecube-games/
EDMIX
Member
lol I can't say all that, but I would confirm that I'd own more Gamecube games on Switch then actual Switch games lol
I'd say maybe 15 or so GC games I'd buy....maybe more. I'm not sure, but I know it wouldn't be 50 for me lol
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Those sold move GameCubes in mass?
This is not a argument based on taste and opinions it's one based on the market and the industry. It hurt Nintendo the most.
It's an opinion that The Gamecube cause internal issues for Nintendo? It's an opinion that the games the GameCube launched with didn't resonate with the market at the time? It's an opinion that they halted production in 2003?
I see why there's a lot less industry and technical conversation on NeoGaf since the purge people only want to talk and debate subjective stuff now on the gaming side. Well some people.
The Bloody-Nine
Member
Your thread title is absolutely an opinion. Given that the Gamecube sold 22 million compared to the Wii U which sold less than 14 million.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
The Gamecube has to go through internal hell, drop the price and devalue the Nintendo brands after halted production to reach its numbers. The N64 did not have to do that. One is objectively worse for Nintendo as a company. One caused Nintendo to abandon competing. One caused Nintendo to lose even the most loyal third-party developers for its next console that came back after the N64.
Your statement on the Wii having more games does not refute my point about the third-parties the Gamecube lost that did not come back. Most of the third-parties on the GameCube were shovelware or lower tiered versions of similar games on the 360/PS3. The Wii having more games does not mean the GC didn't lose a lot of the bigger Third-parties it had as those mostly published or exclusively published on the 360/PS3. Not the Wii.
You also can't use the "gaming is big" excuse when they didn't know how big the market would be when the Wii launched and it launched chasing outside the competition and again the words "we are not competing" came out of NINTENDO's own mouth. It is not an opinion.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
“Hurrr but it has games I like” is such a BS copout response. We get it, your feelings are hurt because OP said something mean about a game console you liked.
OP was clearly making the point that GameCube was Nintendo’s worst console in that it involved many strategic mistakes, and suffered greatly from Nintendo’s arrogance and refusal to learn from past generations. Not that it had zero good games.
OP was clearly making the point that GameCube was Nintendo’s worst console in that it involved many strategic mistakes, and suffered greatly from Nintendo’s arrogance and refusal to learn from past generations. Not that it had zero good games.
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Vawn
Banned
So we're just stating facts?
GameCube sold over 21.8 million.
Wii U sold 13.5 million.
Virtual Boy 770K
Conclusion, GameCube was Nintendo's least successful console. I'm not following the facts...
Like others pointed out, it didn't have as sharp of a decline as the N64 going from SNES. The only metric where it was the least successful console are all by random metrics and why I said its based on opinions, not facts.
GameCube sold over 21.8 million.
Wii U sold 13.5 million.
Virtual Boy 770K
Conclusion, GameCube was Nintendo's least successful console. I'm not following the facts...
Like others pointed out, it didn't have as sharp of a decline as the N64 going from SNES. The only metric where it was the least successful console are all by random metrics and why I said its based on opinions, not facts.
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Louis Cyphre
Banned
I was right, you save your best stuff for Xbox One threads. The Gamecube was a failure for Nintendo who used to be so dominant in the industry.
Here's 5 words for you, it isn't just about quality.
petran79
Banned
They dont even read Nintedo magazines or watch the SMB, Captain N or Zelda cartoon. Unthinkable
jufonuk
not tag worthy
You’re forgetting they had to ductape two together first
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
This only works if you ignore the rest of the thread which goes into detail about it's objective market performance. But again you'd have to read the op.
Hmm Virtual Boy is a home console now? Calm down sir.
Thank you.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I don't really follow your argument. N64 damaged the brand too, or were you too young to remember? FF7 on PS1 was a big deal. N64's lack of arcade ports was big deal. The overall lack of games was a big deal.
I don't know what you mean by "caused them to abandon competing". They are still competing against Sony and Microsoft for gaming dollars, are they not?
Then provide numbers. I've taken the time to do so. Why can't you invest the same effort?
How many third-parties did the Gamecube lose that did not come back, compared the the number lost on the N64 and the Wii. Back up your assertions.
Yeah, they "weren't competing" which ended up being in Sony and Microsoft's favor because the Wii trounced them both. Nintendo is still competing for a portion of the market's videogame dollars. You have an archaic System Wars circa 2008 understanding of the videogame market.
The Bloody-Nine
Member
Your OP is also an opinion piece. When you have to insert 'arguably' it should give you a clue.
Zog
Banned
The Bloody-Nine
Member
Vawn
Banned
Yeah, I'm not following the metrics. If we're not going by sales numbers, in which its definitely NOT the worst, what are we going by? Wii U and Virtual Boy both sold worse.
Sharpest decline in sales? Nope. That's N64.
How about when they lost their near exclusive partnerships with most huge third-party publishers such as Square, Konami, etc? Nope, that was N64 too.
You just keep making these threads where you don't seem to understand that your opinions are not facts.
Sharpest decline in sales? Nope. That's N64.
How about when they lost their near exclusive partnerships with most huge third-party publishers such as Square, Konami, etc? Nope, that was N64 too.
You just keep making these threads where you don't seem to understand that your opinions are not facts.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
You really don't seem to understand the "INTERNAL PANIC" the GameCube caused at Nintendo. It was a much bigger issue than the N64.
As for competing, again you're arguing against what came out of Nintendo's own mouth as well as many other Japanese companies. But mostly Nintendo's own mouth.
You are also the only person who sides against gaming media in japan and outside outlining the Wii's lack of quality third-party software and the lack of output by top devs. That can be found in seconds, are you saying they are lying?
Wii didn't trounce anything. It's own market abandoned the platform and didn't transfer to its successor. The actual gaming market was barely on the Wii and was mostly on the 360/PS3. That other market is not coming back.
It's almost like reading the OP will give you the information about what the threads about.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Hell yeah, but we loved out lil purple lunch boxes!
zenspider
Member
Why? It already "failed" years before.
Plus, Capcom announced RE4 for PS2 before the Gamecube release. It was hardly exclusive. Most people were happy to wait.
I was working in retail/distributiom at the time, and I know it's anectdotal, but the $99 Gamecube with Zelda disc was our best selling system that year. It's hard to describe Nintendo's late push as a failure on those terms, but it was a gasp for air at that point.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
You're right. I don't. Do you have any articles or information to help me better understand this phenomenon?
Okay, but what does that mean? Nintendo still obviously competes in the videogame market. I don't speak for Nintendo. But just because Nintendo said "we aren't directly competing" does not make it true.
I have no clue what this sentence means. Could you provide links?
Coming back to where? If you are talking about "the casualz" I'm not really following you. Many of those came back into gaming via their phones.
Jubenhimer
Member
That's entirely the fault of Nintendo. They got complacent with the Wii's success and the console's later years suffered because of it. I don't think the casual market is never coming back. But they are a difficult market to crack and keep the interest of.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
I mean it's not even just Nintendo multiple outlets echoed the same. Heck some said the Wii didn't even count entirely.
Heck the gaming and casual markets were split up by the outlets AND the manufactures. The market reacted the same way. Now whether you FEEL the Wii was part of the same market as the PS3/360 the industry generally did not see it that way for better or worse and that's what this thread is about, the market and the industry.
When you look at how the Gamecube effected Nintendo, itself and outside of it, Industry wide, it did a lot more damage than the Wii or N64 did based on objective statements and reports from the company whether it was then current or ex-employees.
The market also did not care for the Gamecube until Nintendo has to do a lot of unconventional things to get it to sell. Something that have never done again including with consoles such as the Wii U where they took the loss and traded it for profit.
I'm not sure what part of any of this is confusing you. Many things changed because of the GC more than any other home Nintendo console.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I am very interested in reading these objective statements and reports from the company. Could you point me in the right direction? Otherwise, I think you're full of hot air.
What is your standard for "worse home console failure" then? That is what is confusing to me and everyone else in the thread. You haven't really defined your terms for worst failure. You've just listed some bad points about the Gamecube. And when asked you show comparisons or data, you come up short.
I think N64 was the biggest failure, alongside its twin little siblings the GBC and Virtual Boy. No Nintendo console/handheld generation has had fewer games than that generation. The number of games is a pretty important indicator of a system's health and popularity. Some of your own criteria was how "the Gamecube lost so many third party developers" (which you haven't yet provided any links for...) so the total number of games is a pretty decent indicator of developer support, too.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Virtual Boy is not a home console.
The fact you are only using games ignores all the other undeniable effects the GameCube had which you can find stories easily via your favorite search engine. it just seems like you're putting your personal feelings in this. Many stories about Ex-Nintendo employees you don't want to look up talking about what it was like under GameCube Nintendo.
Things like halting production in 2003 because of bad sales that never happened with the N64. N64 didn't have to go on fire sales to sell. How is N64 the biggest failure when the GC effected the company the most, especially directly? Even you agreed they likely made less money on the GC than the N64. You're sending mixed signals.
I mean you just asked me to prove the market was split between casuals and gamer, you know damn well that happened, it was a topic for years on this very board and numerous other gaming boards. This thread isn't about you liking the games on the GC it's about it's objective failures and performance.
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Vawn
Banned
Well, it wasn't a portable. So what is it?
goldenpp72
Member
Gamecube started with Pikmin, Smash Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Rogue leader, Super Monkey Ball and Wave Race, Wii U had NSMBU and Nintendo Land and almost nothing else forever, so sorry but no.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I am using the number of games, yes, to help determine whether or not the N64 was a worse console failure compared to the Gamecube. Isn't this opposite of "putting my personal feelings in this"?
Thanks for the links to all those interviews... oh, sorry, I'm not going to do your homework for you. I acknowledge that Gamecube was a rough time for Nintendo, and the N64's ideology was largely to blame for that. N64 was still a bigger failure.
Halting production or "fire sales" are the sign of whether or not a console is the worst home console failure? I don't agree.
I don't believe that money made or money lost is the sole reason for whether or not a system is a failure. Because if that was the case then Wii U would be the main contender.
I already told you that I don't really like the Gamecube or it's games. Did that fly over your head?
I am using actual numbers. You aren't. Please put the big terms like "objective failures" and "performance" back up on the kitchen counter where you found them until you start backing up what you say with statistics and sales numbers.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
It is documented as a portable on many sites and was called a portable by Nintendo itself.
Unless you're one of the people that equate pockability=portable, in that case the R-zone wasn't portable either but that's not how it works.
Noboru Wataya
Banned
GameCube >>>>> N64. Fight me!
That blurry 13fps mess of a system was ugly system at launch. Especially on the PAL region when everything was slower again (50hz). I remember the N64 being a laughing stock by everyone who had a PS1 at the time. Even now it has by far the worst library of games of any Nintendo system. Home to the worst Zelda games IMO also. The N64 is a Mario 64 system. Always was, always will be. /edge
That blurry 13fps mess of a system was ugly system at launch. Especially on the PAL region when everything was slower again (50hz). I remember the N64 being a laughing stock by everyone who had a PS1 at the time. Even now it has by far the worst library of games of any Nintendo system. Home to the worst Zelda games IMO also. The N64 is a Mario 64 system. Always was, always will be. /edge
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
So you're saying the OP is lying about Nintendo halting production in 2003?
Please show me what in the OP isn't right.
Yes fire sales and halting production do impact how the console was a failure for Nintendo. Yes it, lack of profits and causing the company to have a meltdown is a measurement for it being a bigger issue for the company than the N64.
Also you even use the term "sole reason" ignoring all the reasons in the OP, I think you're lying this is just you defending the Gamecube on feelings because all the issue in the OP happened and you're flat out denying all these factors don't stack on each other and that's just being obtuse.
Yes all the things in the OP, together, more than one sole reason, makes the GC a bigger failure. Yes, fire sales and company panic do contribute to it being more of a failure. If the GC and the Xbox 1 switched places and the thread was exactly the same you would not even be here.
Petrae
Member
This right here, which explains why the WiiU was a much bigger disasterbacle for Nintendo. The fact that Nintendo lost such a huge portion of its Wii audience and then hurriedly buried the WiiU at the earliest possible opportunity by pulling it off store shelves and quickly greenlighting ports of the few strong WiiU games for its successor in the Switch is also pretty telling.
The GCN certainly had its fair share of problems (that mini-disc, though!) but it also had the unenviable position of trying to compete against an undefeatable juggernaut in the PlayStation 2– a platform that decimated every platform it competed against in Gen6. Each of the PS2’s competitors had its own set of advantages, but none was close to good enough.
I don’t think the GCN was necessarily one of Nintendo’s brightest moments, but it is far from being the platform holder’s biggest console disaster. That dubious honor will belong to the WiiU, for at least for the foreseeable future.
All that said, I do appreciate that OP took the time and effort to cite certain points and lay out an argument. It has led to what I think is an interesting discussion, and that’s pretty cool in my book.
Leonard Washington
Banned
All this hate for the Wii U, shame on you heathens!
If you look at it correctly (ie through CFW eyes) its one of Nintendos best platforms ever.
If you look at it correctly (ie through CFW eyes) its one of Nintendos best platforms ever.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I'll just have to quote your own OP, if that is the standard:
This problem was worse on the N64, as evidenced by the total number of Gamecube games compared to N64 games.
The problem is that you don't back up any of your statements with numbers or links, just vague assertions, so it's hard to make sense of what you're trying to say.
The strangest part is that you keep calling me a liar and you keep saying I am defending the Gamecube on feelings. You aren't getting it: I'm disagreeing with your premise and saying the N64 was much worse. I'm not lying. I'm backing up what I say with facts. Are you throwing a tantrum from behind your keyboard? I'm seriously confused by your weird "jabs" like "If the GC and the Xbox 1 switched places you would not even be here". How am I supposed to defend myself against such a nonsensical accusation. What is this implying? I'm utterly confused.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Virtual Boy was never positioned as a successor to SNES nor Gameboy, it does r fit neatly into either category.
Jubenhimer
Member
On topic. Wii U had much more severe mistakes and was overall a much worse console than the GameCube. Nintendo's decisions with the GameCube certainly didn't help the thing, but I'll cut the GameCube some slack as it was an awkward time in the gaming industry when it released, even if everything went right with it, it still would've lost. Wii U had no excuse for being as poorly handled and designed as it was. And it was all due to Nintendo growing too comfortable with their success.
Zog
Banned
Ah but you see, to the Keyboard Board of Directors it's really about the sales, not whether it was an enjoyable console or not.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's a shame Nintendo has gone after profits over games.
Back in the day, they had quality hardware. You get the usual quality first party game and then tons of third party games.
Now it's hardware a few steps back of MS and Sony. You still get their first party games, but half the third party devs don't bother as they don't want to gimp their games.
All Nintendo had to do is keep with with MS and Sony with hardware and they have the best of both worlds and probably dominate like the NES and SNES gens..... 25 years ago.
Back in the day, they had quality hardware. You get the usual quality first party game and then tons of third party games.
Now it's hardware a few steps back of MS and Sony. You still get their first party games, but half the third party devs don't bother as they don't want to gimp their games.
All Nintendo had to do is keep with with MS and Sony with hardware and they have the best of both worlds and probably dominate like the NES and SNES gens..... 25 years ago.
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