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[Jubenhimer]

It's a shame Nintendo has gone after profits over games.

Back in the day, they had quality hardware. You get the usual quality first party game and then tons of third party games.

Now it's hardware a few steps back of MS and Sony. You still get their first party games, but half the third party devs don't bother as they don't want to gimp their games.

Funny considering the Switch has Nintendo's strongest first and third party support they had in years.

 

[Stuart360]

Why do you always make threads where you state your opinion as if its 'fact'?

 

[Bakkus]

I thought it had the best 1st party line up. And it also had the amazing GB Player. I'm still playing it to this day.

 

[louis89]

Explain the GameCube failure post Halo then with then exclusives like RE4, a $99 price with some retailer going under, and a revived ad budget?

RE4 was a timed exclusive. The PS2 version was announced months before the Gamecube version had even released.

 

[dirthead]

Metroid Prime was the last great Nintendo game. Haven't been able to get into them since then.

 

[ShirAhava]

The OP is how I remember it the perception of the GC has changed over the years....it was nintendo's true low point

I haaaated the gamecube a few decent/good games aside the gc era was a shit show

All my friends and I were really hyped for n64 DD and then they come out with this odd looking crap it felt like a kids toy/joke

also hated the controller, didn't like melee as much as smash 64, toon link reception was bleh, mario sunshine was good but not super mario 128 good!

people really rewrite history when it comes to this console the only people who really loved it were Nintendo fanbo---I mean diehards

The Zoids games were awesome and I really liked P.N.03 other than those two GC is when Nintendo jumped the shark

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

All hail the Panasonic Q

 

[ExpandKong]

Nothing wrong if we talk about the market and the industry objectively.

This threads not about opinions. But I guess that would require reading the first word in the thread.

Dude putting the word “objective” at the beginning of your post doesn’t magically make everything you say irrefutable. I read several of your words. Get over yourself.

 

[LittleBusters]

Yet even during the 'dark days' Nintendo had a $5 billion cash pile.

 

[cartman414]

Unappealing Mario title. As a successor to Mario 64, no one was that excited.

Cell shaded Zelda. Again, a strange successor to a smash hit.

Luigi's Mansion. A title that does not appeal to gamers at the time.

No successor to GoldenEye or Perfect Dark. That's where the market would eventually lead to. Even now, CoD is still tops the charts. Nintendo was foolish to let this genre slip as the N64 was the console for shooters.

Strange console aesthetic and controller. Controller not well suited for fighting games.

Mini disc was better for players (shorter load times), but to the masses, it seems dumb. And it must have cost more to manufacture than a regular DVD, as no other hardware uses the same thing. Of course, the PS2 could play DVDs and the cube couldn't.

The Gamecube had some great titles, and was more fun for me to play on than PS2 due to the extra power and shorter load times. The actual tech inside the cube was great. And the cube was cheap too.

However, strange hardware design decisions, questionable disc format, delayed a year, questionable game direction, questionable controller decisions, lack of third party support from major third parties. The console was online ready but was never taken online.

The tech inside the cube was great, it's just there were too many fuck ups.

Smaller discs cost no more to print than regular ones. It's all about material costs, and silicon, not proprietary factor, is why carts were always more expensive when it came to prior systems.

Nintendo's higher licensing fees coming into the gen were a bigger problem, though thankfully they fixed that.

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

The N64 was a bigger drop in popularity. The WiiU was a bigger sales failure and died almost immediately.

And then there's the Virtua Boy, which was a massive bomb that only produced a handful of games.

The Gamecube didn't sell as well, but it still produced multiple huge sellers in manner of games and brought back a lot of third parties that had ditched the n64 era. The Gamecube itself is a "hidden gem" console with people realizing how many good games it had much later on.

 

[spookyfish]

I'll take "what is a WiiU" for $500, Alex.

(and for the record, I'm one of the like twelve people that actually bought one)

I love the Wii U (and the GameCube) but, yeah. It really isn’t a debate: Wii U, with the expanding market, was the biggest failure; partly due to marketing and messaging.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Yeah nowhere near as bad as Wii U. However, Nintendo's late release and lack of real online support did more harm than anything else.

I loved my GameCube. It was a real treat when a great GameCube game came out. Likewise, the PS2 was incredible and Xbox was ahead of its time, but the GCN was just charming, would load quickly and had amazing, albeit fewer, games.

 

[Killer751]

Objectively.

People will often say the Wii U or the Wii(due to the market it brought in, for seconds) are the worst of Nintendo's consoles but the GameCube was Nintendo's real stumble in the market.

1. The GameCube continued the N64's delay legacy, sure it wasn't as long this time, only 1 year (as opposed to the N64's 2 year delay, 3 in parts of Europe) but that one year delay put it one year after the launch of the PS2. It also brought the GameCubes launch date to match the new Microsoft console at the time.

2. The GameCube in its first year arguably was one if its worst. While some people will look back with rose tinted glasses, the market wasn't interested in the GameCube's library at the time. The GameCube did not have the games that the Xbox and PS2 had which shook things up and the GameCube was falling fast behind. People forget this fact.

3. The GameCube was the fastest to cut its price and it did nothing. In fact, in 2003 the GameCube was selling so badly, that Nintendo had to halt shipments and stop production. The GameCube was $99 and below at some retailers by this point.

4. The GameCube was constantly paired with the GBA in earnings and you could tell the GBA was used to hide how much the GameCube was losing Nintendo. But even then the earnings were substantially lower than what Nintendo Put out for 97-99 N64 by itself with both of those combined.

5. The GameCube was dirt cheap late 2003 forward. From late 2004 the Xbox, due to numerous issues, including a soon to launch successor, was gradually then quickly pulled out most of the market. During this time the GameCube and some of it's top games were cheap, Nintendo picked up advertising, focused on more GBA support, tried to grab more GameCube only titles, and even got some cross-gen games with the Wii. Effectively, the GameCubes main competition for 2nd place was gone, and the GameCube was still not able to produce significant numbers. In fact, the GameCube despite basically being left alone for years, still lost by late 2007, to what was a dead console in all but name(Xbox). Sonic Heroes, RE4, Twilight Princess, etc, where not able to move the needle.

6. Nintendos slow acceptance of online ended up costing them quite a bit. Even during the 2003 halt the GameCube was still light on online content and Nintendo decided to continue on without putting much fofcus on it.

7. Nintendo's treatment of Rare and lack of interest in keeping them was baffling. Ignoring the fact they were a big part for the great success, in one country, of the N64. Without games like GE and Banjo the droughts would have surely been doom during the N64's run. They were not able to replace them with the GC.

8. Some people think mini-dvd's were one of the biggest reasons for the GameCubes fall. While a factor I don't believe it was a major issue. Instead what made mini-dvd'a become a real problem was not the format itself but the size.

Nintendo intentionally, even when the Gamecube was floundering, refused to update the capacity for their mini-dvd discs. Japanese media and leakers reported conversations about producing 2-5GB variants and making it available for developers, but scrapped it. They kept the lowest format for most games on the system and also decided to scrap Mini-DVD movie playback which was under consideration since the GameCube launched. Ultimately, it was decided to scrap the idea of movies as well.

9. Nintendo was stuck-up. They and some fans believed their first party was first and third-parties were second, and the former alone would move many GameCubes. This really ended up causing early developers to leave the GameCube and prevented others from jumping in. It also showed that Nintendos games alone could not move the console. This point is also one of the reasons the GameCube was delayed because they didn't want Third-parties to help fill-in launch gaps.

10. The GameCube continued the drought legacy of the N64 except they didn't have a few super hit games to fill some of the air. This led to a large decrease in interest.

11. The people running Nintendo Japan were all trying to find excuses for the GameCube instead of blaming themselves. From Hiroshi's "only reason Gamecube is failing because of Violent video games" to "It was great long-term for the N64 to weed-out developers that were "weak"" and "X games would ruin our brand".

12. The people not running Nintendo but still working in the company were also insane. "But we are Nintendo" was something numerous ex-employees have recalled hearing in response to losing in the sales race. The hubris was a big issue.

13. It was the last time Nintendo directly competed with the competition and instead have released consoles indirectly competing aiming for different markets. (outside the Switch Hybrid which is more debatable)

When you look at interviews and stories from current or ex-Nintendo employees or even third-party contractors, whether in gaming or another industry, Nintendo was having a great meltdown with the GameCube, everything went opposite of what they were expecting and instead of learning a lesson from the GameCube they ran. They had the wrong attitude from the start and refused to change that attitude later.

It really is, market and industry wise, their biggest home console failure.

People these days really understate how big of a disaster the Gamecube was.

Great post OP.

 

[Grinchy]

8. Some people think mini-dvd's were one of the biggest reasons for the GameCubes fall. While a factor I don't believe it was a major issue. Instead what made mini-dvd'a become a real problem was not the format itself but the size.

Nintendo intentionally, even when the Gamecube was floundering, refused to update the capacity for their mini-dvd discs. Japanese media and leakers reported conversations about producing 2-5GB variants and making it available for developers, but scrapped it. They kept the lowest format for most games on the system and also decided to scrap Mini-DVD movie playback which was under consideration since the GameCube launched. Ultimately, it was decided to scrap the idea of movies as well.

The fact that they theoretically could make larger capacity mini-dvds doesn't really change the fact that it was a major issue IMO. As you point out, the larger capacity never existed, and to me, the mini discs were the biggest problem the system had.

There was a Nintendo system that was on the same level as the competition from a hardware perspective and yet that one single limitation turned away any possibility of strong 3rd party involvement. Just a huge bone-headed move on Nintendo's part.

 

[LucidFeuer]

Gamecube is one of Nintendo best console, if not one of the best consoles ever.

It is the first console device since the 1970s that was introduced in the MoMa because of how great it's design was, it's performance and optimisation was the best of the 4 (dreamcast, ps2 and Xbox even though less powerful than the latter), it's line-up was every great Nintendo franchises pushed to the modern 3D age with a huge leap from the N64:

Mario Sunshine, Waverace, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Super Smash Melee, Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion, Starfox Adventures, Zelda: The Wind Waker, Mario Kart: Double Dash, Pokemon Coloseum...

It had a world class (japanese) list of exclusives, or at least some that were supposed to be until it failed: Star Wars Rogue Leader, Resident Evil 4/Rebirth/Zero, Phantasy Star Online III, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Viewtiful Joe, Metal Gear Twin Snake, Eternal Darkness, Baten Kaitos, Bloody Roar Primal, Lost Kingdoms, Naruto: Clash of Ninjas, Super Monkey Ball etc...

As well as inherited all the great Dreamcast titles the other consoles didn't when it failed, and had all the latest cross-platform games from Activision to EA.

It's controller was one of the best Nintendo controller's, maybe even the best controller there ever was in terms of design and ergonomics.

So NO, as always, numbers don't mean shit, what they mean is that Nintendo did an artful craftsmanship in a time were gaming was starting to become casual...and that's why it failed and they did the Wii...

 

[LucidFeuer]

RE4 was a timed exclusive. The PS2 version was announced months before the Gamecube version had even released.

STFU, don't spread lies that are easily verifiable.

 

[dark10x]

I mean your opinion is fine but that's not what the thread is about.

Well, I specifically addressing one of your points. You made a LOT of points and that's the one that I wanted to discuss.

 

[Wonkytonk]

Well, I specifically addressing one of your points. You made a LOT of points and that's the one that I wanted to discuss.

I think OP would really have liked a "Disable Comments" option when posting.

His/Her points are for you to read only, not reply to

 

[TeamGhobad]

wii-u was worse no?

 

[TLZ]

GameCube literally made Nintendo go insane, stop GameCube production, scared MORE third-parties away than the N64, Made less money, and caused Nintendo to stop competing.

Of course! Because Nintendo higher-ups didn't learn from their stubborn N64 mistakes, stuck with the same higher than thou mentality still, and went ahead and made even more mistakes! Well deserved failure I say.

But on the expense of one of my fav consoles, sadly.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

The GameCube was good and underrated. Imo, it was miles better than the Wii with it’s forced motion controls and plethora of endless shovelware games. It was also better then the N64 imo because at least it had some third party support.

 

[shark sandwich]

To all the people who think GameCube was such an amazing and wonderful system: why do you think it sold so poorly even after cutting the price to $99?

This is an honest question.

 

[Wonkytonk]

To all the people who think GameCube was such an amazing and wonderful system: why do you think it sold so poorly even after cutting the price to $99?

This is an honest question.

It was amazing to THEM and not everyone, therefore making an overall business decision based on sales has nothing to do with THEIR enjoyment of it?

For example, I really love a console. It doesn’t sell very well. The price then gets reduced. It still doesn’t sell very well.

Do I then see this and think.. oh, actually I don’t love this console anymore because the price has been reduced and it isn’t selling well?

 

[Shifty]

So not only did you fail to spell 'worst' in the title, but the opening word of your argument is 'objectively'?

Some of these joke threads are too good, I don't even

 

[JCK75]

Unlike the WiiU the gamecube did not deserve to fail, it was an incredible machine with an incredible library of games.

 

[ROMhack]

Good post OP. I personally think a big reason why it failed was because it was perceived as too childish.

Culturally speaking, early 2000s was a time where digital technology was perceived as cool and cutting edge. This was the forefront of the digital future; the millennium had just passed and we were all excited about the possibility of the internet, DVD technologies and robots doing our laundry for us. The PS2 and Xbox exuded a sense of speed and strength, respectively. Just look at the PS2's loading screen if you want a visual representation of what that epoch was all about.

By contrast, Nintendo's console was very toy-like with its big purple aesthetics doing little to attract people who thought fucking Halo was as good as it could get. That perception was an issue because adults were emerging as a much bigger share of the marketplace. I believe Nintendo were completely wrong thinking consoles should or perhaps should be made only for kids and teenagers.

I think they clearly realised too given how much the Wii then tried (and succeeded) catering towards adult demographics.

 

[petran79]

This right here, which explains why the WiiU was a much bigger disasterbacle for Nintendo. The fact that Nintendo lost such a huge portion of its Wii audience and then hurriedly buried the WiiU at the earliest possible opportunity by pulling it off store shelves and quickly greenlighting ports of the few strong WiiU games for its successor in the Switch is also pretty telling.

The GCN certainly had its fair share of problems (that mini-disc, though!) but it also had the unenviable position of trying to compete against an undefeatable juggernaut in the PlayStation 2– a platform that decimated every platform it competed against in Gen6. Each of the PS2’s competitors had its own set of advantages, but none was close to good enough.

I don’t think the GCN was necessarily one of Nintendo’s brightest moments, but it is far from being the platform holder’s biggest console disaster. That dubious honor will belong to the WiiU, for at least for the foreseeable future.

All that said, I do appreciate that OP took the time and effort to cite certain points and lay out an argument. It has led to what I think is an interesting discussion, and that’s pretty cool in my book.

The fact Nintendo had to divert resources from their portable game division to develop the hybrid Switch, demonstrates the massive failure of the WiiU for todays standards.

Or else they'd have focused both on another gimmicky desktop console and a true successor to the 3ds. Sony abandoned the Vita, Nintendo had to sacrifice the 3ds successor for the Switch

 

[shark sandwich]

I think GameCube fans are overjoyed that the Wii U and Virtual Boy exist. Gives them a really convenient way to deflect criticism away from a console that was an astoundingly huge failure in terms of sales and public perception.

IMO GameCube came at a time when gamers were wondering whether Nintendo would reclaim their spot as the “rightful king of gaming” after PlayStation completely ate N64’s lunch.

And Nintendo’s answer was fuck you we’re making N64 2.0: a powerful little system that looked like a little kid’s toy, and had an idiotic storage medium that was inadequate for a lot of the big 3rd party titles gamers were interested in.

It was a big strategic error at a crucial time IMO.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I love the Wii-U & the Gamecube but maybe it was a financial failure but back then Nintendo tried out new things and took their franchises into bolder directions. The games banged hard, Starfox Adventures, Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, Paper Mario: TTYD, Wind Waker, Luigi's Mansion. All of them were outside the comfort zone for these titles at the time.

I actually bought a bunch of games of Gamecube games in the last 12 months, Pokemon XD, Chibi Robo amongst others that I missed out on. While I can understand what you're trying to say... The games were and still are fucking amazing.

Also the Gamecube has the GBA Player so you don't even need a GBA to play the games. Playing Pokemon Emerald on your TV is great.

 

[mckmas8808]

Gamecube is still my favorite Nintendo console so I have a hard time agreeing even though I can see your reasoning.

This is a feeling MANY people have making this thread so bad and so wrong. The Wii U should literally be EVERYONE's answer to worse Nintendo console of all time.

 

[shark sandwich]

This is a feeling MANY people have making this thread so bad and so wrong. The Wii U should literally be EVERYONE's answer to worse Nintendo console of all time.

I agree, but I think you can make a case (which OP has) that GameCube was the bigger failure in that it was Nintendo making bad and hubristic decisions at what could’ve been a pivotal moment in their history.

Maybe you could even make the case that Wii U’s failure was in some way caused by Gamecube’s failure. GameCube fails to recapture the market share that N64 lost -> Nintendo decides to pursue a “blue ocean” strategy and go after casual audience with Wii -> Once Wii fad is played out, neither casual gamers nor hardcore are interested in Wii U.

 

[L0wMax]

Wii U was definitely worse. That controller is garbage that needs to be recharged all the time. Plus you can't use a spare controller if it needs charged, you NEED it for most games.

 

[xviper]

i don't care about the statistics

the GameCube will forever be my most beloved gaming platform, as a kid, i loved my GameCube, i loved every game i got for it, i will never forget the amazing time i spent playing games like Melee, Mario kart double dash, super monkey ball, mario party, Kirby air ride and many more

 

[Dunki]

I think people missing here some point. Back when the GameCube launched after the N64 nobody expected much anymore. It was just a system that exists. With the HUGE success of the Wii everyone had their eyes on Nintendo. What they gonna do? With the "failure" of the PS3 the Wii bought in a complete new market as well.

NO the Gamecube was just a unsuccessful console. The Wii U was almost Nintendo's death.

 

[HyGogg]

GameCube had much better third party support than WiiU and that made a huge difference. GC was a stumble, they did struggle, but it wasn't an outright failure that needed to be abandoned prematurely, and that lived off a drip of almost nothing for the last year and a half of its life.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree, but I think you can make a case (which OP has) that GameCube was the bigger failure in that it was Nintendo making bad and hubristic decisions at what could’ve been a pivotal moment in their history.

Maybe you could even make the case that Wii U’s failure was in some way caused by Gamecube’s failure. GameCube fails to recapture the market share that N64 lost -> Nintendo decides to pursue a “blue ocean” strategy and go after casual audience with Wii -> Once Wii fad is played out, neither casual gamers nor hardcore are interested in Wii U.

Nah man you just can't make that case. At the very least you can dig out great mind-blowing games from the Gamecube's generation right now and people would go crazy. Probably more than 30 games worth! Does the Wii U even have 10 games that would make people excited to see re-released 10 years from now?

The Wii U can after the Wii! The Wii shocked the world and was global hit. The N64 was just a good console. Nintendo 100% blew it with the Wii U. You can't say the same thing about the GameCube.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Nah man you just can't make that case. At the very least you can dig out great mind-blowing games from the Gamecube's generation right now and people would go crazy. Probably more than 30 games worth! Does the Wii U even have 10 games that would make people excited to see re-released 10 years from now?

The Wii U can after the Wii! The Wii shocked the world and was global hit. The N64 was just a good console. Nintendo 100% blew it with the Wii U. You can't say the same thing about the GameCube.

Yes. And Nintendo has already re-released most of them to good success: Yoshi's Wooly World Poochi Whatever (3DS), Mario Maker (3DS), Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Switch), DKC Tropical Freeze (Switch), LEGO City Undercover (various), Bayonetta 1 & 2 (Switch), Pokken Tournament (Switch), Hyrule Warriors (3DS, Switch), and Captain Toad (3DS, Switch).

I'm omitting cross-gen/cross-platform games like Breath of the Wild and Smash Bros 3DS, although that only helps my case.

I own a Wii U and a 17 games for it. That being said, I wouldn't mind if every single one of them was ported to Switch and then I could box up the Wii U. Still hoping for ports of Xenoblade X, SM3D World, and W101.

In comparison, though, the Gamecube has more games that I'd want ported or re-released. Both systems are better than the N64.

 

[kunonabi]

This is a feeling MANY people have making this thread so bad and so wrong. The Wii U should literally be EVERYONE's answer to worse Nintendo console of all time.

wii u's first party library is way too strong for it to ever deserve being at the bottom.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Dude putting the word “objective” at the beginning of your post doesn’t magically make everything you say irrefutable. I read several of your words. Get over yourself.

No just many of you don't read and don't want to admit to doing so such as right here:

Nah man you just can't make that case. At the very least you can dig out great mind-blowing games from the Gamecube's generation right now and people would go crazy. Probably more than 30 games worth! Does the Wii U even have 10 games that would make people excited to see re-released 10 years from now?

I mean posts like these are all well in good but it seems the primary defense for the GameCube in this thread isn't about the effect it has on Nintendo itself and its reputation in the industry, also performance, but more about people liking games on it which misses the entire point. Some posters pointed this out though, sadly they were ignored.

i don't care about the statistics

This is like going into a thread about mid-term results and saying you don't care about statistics.

Of course! Because Nintendo higher-ups didn't learn from their stubborn N64 mistakes, stuck with the same higher than thou mentality still, and went ahead and made even more mistakes! Well deserved failure I say.

But on the expense of one of my fav consoles, sadly.

I find it weird that dun liked this post since it was what he was arguing against.

But anyway yes, when you look at the companies internal responses from the top and to the employees across both NOJ and NOA it's clear that they had to be hut hard to get that attitude placed in check.

Sad really but I think it was necessary as it did work. Well, it worked for a bit and then they had to learn the lesson again after the wiis initial success after 2010.

You know, I think Nintendo got lucky with the N64 honestly, as it only had one real competitor and 3DO/Sega shat themselves before they entered with the N64. I feel they completely ignored the fact the N64 only did well because of that as well as it doing well only in one country. I think it prevented them from really seeing what was wrong until the Wii.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I find it weird that dun liked this post since it was what he was arguing against.

I agree that Nintendo higher-ups didn't learn from their stubborn N64 mistakes. How does that conflict with what I've already pointed out in this thread?

You know, I think Nintendo got lucky with the N64 honestly, as it only had one real competitor and 3DO/Sega shat themselves before they entered with the N64. I feel they completely ignored the fact the N64 only did well because of that as well as it doing well only in one country. I think it prevented them from really seeing what was wrong until the Wii.

Agreed, N64 was incredibly damaging to the company.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

The fact that they theoretically could make larger capacity mini-dvds doesn't really change the fact that it was a major issue IMO. As you point out, the larger capacity never existed, and to me, the mini discs were the biggest problem the system had.

There was a Nintendo system that was on the same level as the competition from a hardware perspective and yet that one single limitation turned away any possibility of strong 3rd party involvement. Just a huge bone-headed move on Nintendo's part.

The larger capacity did exist Nintendo just decided to not use them because................................................................................................
..........................
..............................
....................................
......................................

They were insane I guess.

Well, I specifically addressing one of your points. You made a LOT of points and that's the one that I wanted to discuss.

What were you addressing? The point was the GameCube launch titles did not resonate with the market, especially outside japan. PS2 and the Xbox has games at launch and within the launch year that provided some of the movers and shakers of the industry. You can say the GC had better launch games than the N64 or Wii, that's fine, but the market did not think this at the time and the circumstances were different to the point Nintendo had to have come up with better than what they did to shake off the software the Xbox and PS2 had. What they put out whether you believe it was better or not then other Nintendo systems was not enough for the market at the time.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I agree that Nintendo higher-ups didn't learn from their stubborn N64 mistakes. How does that conflict with what I've already pointed out in this thread?


Agreed, N64 was incredibly damaging to the company.

Just not as much as the GameCube where they literally had to change how things were run, and had to halt production, and then blamed everyone but themselves for their problems, caused Eidos to leave and they influenced a mass exodus of other developers leaving the GC. Fired employees etc. and things I placed in the OP.

And for some reason you have an issue with that.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Just not as much as the GameCube where they literally had to change how things were run, and had to halt production, and then blamed everyone but themselves for their problems, caused Eidos to leave and they influenced a mass exodus of other developers leaving the GC. Fired employees etc. and things I placed in the OP.

And for some reason you have an issue with that.

I don't have issues with those facts. I simply don't weigh those issues as heavily as you do. I don't believe the issues caused by the Gamecube were worse than the problems caused by N64.

The problem is you say unquantified things like "they literally had to change how thins were run" and "fired employees", but how many? And how does this compare the the lack of games on N64? How does this compare to the (significantly) lower sales of the Wii U?

Those unanswered questions are why you are getting flak in your own thread.

 

[dark10x]

What were you addressing? The point was the GameCube launch titles did not resonate with the market, especially outside japan. PS2 and the Xbox has games at launch and within the launch year that provided some of the movers and shakers of the industry. You can say the GC had better launch games than the N64 or Wii, that's fine, but the market did not think this at the time and the circumstances were different to the point Nintendo had to have come up with better than what they did to shake off the software the Xbox and PS2 had. What they put out whether you believe it was better or not then other Nintendo systems was not enough for the market at the time.

I do not believe it was the fault of the software itself, rather, the circumstances around it. Software isn't the issue.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I don't have issues with those facts. I simply don't weigh those issues as heavily as you do. I don't believe the issues caused by the Gamecube were worse than the problems caused by N64.

.

Which doesn't make sense because Nintendo was fine where the N64 was and your own statements imply the same thing, so if one still led them be stubborn with a hubris the size of texas, and the other caused them to change strategies, panic, and have people who were working or worked for the company admit they were in panic, and then devs like Eidos leading a mass exodus from the console, along with them having to halt production and scrambling it's value to try and get it to sell, one is objectively worse FOR THE COMPANY than the other and the fact you still think the N64 was worse to Nintendo just doesn't add up.

I mean you can trace the mistakes of the Wii U right to the GameCube and not the N64 because they did a lot of similar things. The only thing they didn't do was crumble the wiis value to try and get it to sell and kept it at a high price for profit. A lesson they learned form the GC, not the N64.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I do not believe it was the fault of the software itself, rather, the circumstances around it. Software isn't the issue.

Which still means it's the softwares fault. They ignored where the market is going. Hiroshi even blamed the GameCubes failure on violent games for example. They wanted to "protect their brand" and such. So them intentionally ignoring what software the market wanted and putting out software that wouldn't create enough interest to shake off its competitors, that's softwares fault.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Which doesn't make sense because Nintendo was fine where the N64 was and your own statements imply the same thing, so if one still led them be stubborn with a hubris the size of texas, and the other caused them to change strategies, panic, and have people who were working or worked for the company admit they were in panic, and then devs like Eidos leading a mass exodus from the console, along with them having to halt production and scrambling it's value to try and get it to sell, one is objectively worse FOR THE COMPANY than the other and the fact you still think the N64 was worse to Nintendo just doesn't add up.

I mean you can trace the mistakes of the Wii U right to the GameCube and not the N64 because they did a lot of similar things. The only thing they didn't do was crumble the wiis value to try and get it to sell and kept it at a high price for profit. A lesson they learned form the GC, not the N64.

The N64 was the start of that hubris and led to the company's biggest decline, both in terms of sales and in terms of total games released for the system. By your own standards, the Gamecube was a scramble to right the ship and yet still suffered from the decline brought on by the N64 (and overall market forces) because the Gamecube had more games and more developers than the N64.

We can verify whether this is the case by looking at Nintendo's handheld market: Game Boy Color also marked a decline during the N64 generation whereas GBA was a recovery (both in sales and in total number of games). This shows a growth in confidence toward the Nintendo brand, does it not?

 

[dark10x]

Which still means it's the softwares fault. They ignored where the market is going. Hiroshi even blamed the GameCubes failure on violent games for example. They wanted to "protect their brand" and such. So them intentionally ignoring what software the market wanted and putting out software that wouldn't create enough interest to shake off its competitors, that's softwares fault.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then. I don't really agree with much of what you've said, to be honest. And that's fine. I think you're drawing some slightly bizarre conclusions. I'm out.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

definitely not as successful but i think it's library was stronger than the wii and switch.