BlueAlpaca
Member
I'm actually not as angry as that posts makes me out to be, just really disappointed. this show could've been something special, something magical. Too late now, it's all over.
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Game of Thrones Season 8 |OT| A Song of Icy and Fiery Fandom
- Thread starter cormack12
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I'm actually not as angry as that posts makes me out to be, just really disappointed. this show could've been something special, something magical. Too late now, it's all over.
Achelexus
Member
Can I get a TL;DR?
Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
History disagrees with you.
Xenon
Member
But that's part of the problem it's just too neat, too easy, and too simple. Also it seems like the directors were more concerned setting up great shots than sticking true to the series. I agree knit picking is pointless. But this was a horrible way to conclude the series. I felt nothing when the credits hit because most of the time I felt i was being walked through an ending rather than feeling the characters experience it. Compared to a show like Avitar: The Last Airbender's emotional ending, this was more like M Knights take. They hit the plot points but failed to capture what made the show so great. The Starks at the end were strangers to me.
SpartanN92
Banned
I think Jon and Jorah Mormont should have changed places.
Jon should have died defending Dany at Winterfell, and Jorah should have followed her to the end only to be distraught by her actions and had to be the one to put her down.
Jon should have died defending Dany at Winterfell, and Jorah should have followed her to the end only to be distraught by her actions and had to be the one to put her down.
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I'm actually not as angry as that posts makes me out to be, just really disappointed. this show could've been something special, something magical. Too late now, it's all over.
Disappointed too but still enjoyed the show overall. I hope the books come out one day and tell the ending a bit better.
GermanZepp
Member
Mmm if Jorah were still alive he will not let her burn the city. I mean, Dany want it to burn all even before The mountain kill that girl at the gates.
RedVIper
Banned
"When presented with periodic opportunities to fill the throne, the szlachta exhibited a preference for foreign candidates who would not find another strong dynasty. This policy often produced monarchs who were either totally ineffective or in constant debilitating conflict with the nobility. Furthermore, aside from notable exceptions such as the able Transylvanian Stefan Batory (1576-86), the kings of foreign origin were inclined to subordinate the interests of the Commonwealth to those of their own country and ruling house. This was especially visible in the policies and actions of the first two elected kings from the Swedish House of Vasa, whose politics brought the Commonwealth into conflict with Sweden, culminating in the war known as The Deluge (1655), one of the events that mark the end of the Commonwealth's Golden Age and the beginning of the Commonwealth's decline."
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Airbus Jr
Banned
Really doubt ser Friendzone would kill Danny
Hes so devoted and fixated to her..probably more than khal drogo, misandei, grey worm, baristan, daario or anyone else..
Unlike Grey Worm whos happy with Jon lifetime exilesement sentence...if he still alive hel prob gona kill jon straight away in kings landing for betraying daenarys...
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stickkidsam
Member
Best part of the ending was seeing Jon and Tormund go on their happy misadventures with their trusty companion Ghost.
I really wish I had read the leaks because I was having a hard time enjoying the show as I lost my shit lol
Chiggs
Member
Interesting take, but there's no way Jorah would do that.
Fbh
Member
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manfestival
Member
I am glad that Bran is the king of the 7 kingdoms. I am also NOT glad that Sansa was so salty about that and desired to be queen so bad she went independent. ESPECIALLY with her threat of the thousands of northmen that would not be happy. I was like what?... like the saying goes "You and WHAT ARMY?"
MEEEEEEEEEEEEH I still can't stand Sansa
MEEEEEEEEEEEEH I still can't stand Sansa
Kadayi
Banned
Because if they just killed him the Northern army Jon brought with him would probably butcher them all. It's not like Kings Landing is was left defensible.
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Tygeezy
Member
Butcher the two best armies in the entire world?
Silent Duck
Member
If I could, I would give this post as many likes as there are dead people in Kings Landing. Made my day.
Kadayi
Banned
The North has the numbers, and they're seasoned fighters. What's in it for the Unsullied at this point in time? Their Queens dead, along with her dreams and Drogon has gone. Who are they fighting for? There is nothing for them in Westeros now. Killing Jon and Provoking a war with the North serves no purpose., but to lead to their eventual annihilation.
Frank Spencer
Banned
You are my queef....
Super Mario
Banned
Obviously, there was a ton that happened in the last few episodes. I don't hate all of it. The hound going out was great. The iron throne being melted was deeper than I originally saw it as. Dany killed by Jon, good stuff. Cersei and Jamie dying together. The dragon taking Dany away. Lots of crap though too. Bran becoming king was the ultimate anti-climax. If you wanted to tell a happy story, fine. If you wanted to tell a sad story, also fine. If you wanted to tell no story, pick Bran.
It should have been Tyrion. The guy had overcame insurmountable odds, lost everything, seen so much, and had so much wisdom to share. He had so much to offer a kingdom. But hey. Let's pick the guy with a boring one-liner every other episode.
It should have been Tyrion. The guy had overcame insurmountable odds, lost everything, seen so much, and had so much wisdom to share. He had so much to offer a kingdom. But hey. Let's pick the guy with a boring one-liner every other episode.
Tygeezy
Member
How do we know the North has the numbers? They fought in the same war. Why would they even need to stay and fight a war? They all left anyway. Logically I believe they would have killed Jon and left.
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Silent Duck
Member
A thought occurs... Aren’t Jon and the Free Folk (?) going to have to become a lumberjacks now to rebuild their homes in the “real” north?At least everyone on all sides us can agree that it was better than this:
I have a few more questions:
(1) Where are the Dothraki going to stay, once the Unsullied go back to Naath? I may have missed the explanation as I had to use the porcelain throne.
(2) What did the Night King’s symbol mean? You know, the swirly body parts thing.
(3) Did Arya abandon the white horse, as she would appear to be faster than it?
(4) Where is Ser Pounce? He would be the only living Lannister other than Tyrion?
The dragon flames couldn’t kill him... He would still have 8 lives left!
Kadayi
Banned
Because Jon brought the Northern forces down with him at Danys request after the Long Night. That was the agreement that was struck.
How? They have no ships, and Dany burnt the entire Ironborn fleet in the battle. The bulk of the Unsullied & Dothraki marched down the Kings Road with Jon & Davos (this was explained in episode 4). They needed to negotiate a peace to get off Westeros.
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CrankyJay™
Member
I didn't watch it live last evening, instead opting to surf the forum for reactions in real-time as I read the spoilers weeks ago. That was enough entertainment in and of itself for me. Then, I watched it on HBO Go just now. It wasn't as bad as I was expecting. I feel bad for Jon though. Sansa came off as "I'm taking my ball and going home because you didn't pick me to be queen". And Arya...it seems they are setting her up for a spin-off, though that remains to be seen, and I somehow doubt there will be any spin-offs from the mainline GoT.
I'm looking forward to the last two books, if they ever come.
edit: From an article I just read, every spin-off is expected to be a prequel.
I'm looking forward to the last two books, if they ever come.
edit: From an article I just read, every spin-off is expected to be a prequel.
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Tygeezy
Member
Jon brought his forces...but are we at any point led to believe they could defeat the unsullied and the dothraki? Why do they need to negotiate anything when they can just take it?
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Is Bran’s story really that much more interesting than Jon’s? Jon, raised as a bastard and placed as a steward in the night watch who rose to Lord Commander and then King of the North and all that he did, just overall. A man brought back from death. A man who then happened to be Aegon Targaryen?
Bran is interesting for sure but Jon seems to have that angle on lockdown
Bran is interesting for sure but Jon seems to have that angle on lockdown
Tygeezy
Member
And he didn't disappear for an entire season so they could focus on a plot that went nowhere.
Kadayi
Banned
Enough with putting them on a pedestal. If they were truly that unstoppable she wouldn't have needed allies in the first place.
Also, I'm amused at this idea that the Dothraki & Unsullied between them are going to somehow magically conjure up a fleet of ships to transport themselves to Essos and Narth. From where exactly? How are they going to do it, and more importantly how are they going to feed themselves on the march? By making peace and agreeing on terms the wheels of progress can turn towards everyone getting their respective worlds in order.
There's nothing logical to Greyworm killing Jon Snow. because there are no positives to it in terms of outcome. The north would be against them, plus the Riverlands, the Vale & The Reach at the very least.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Jon Snow faces his final boss at Anor Londo.
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Fbh
Member
And let's not forget Jon has a personality. One which despite all his terrible plans and constant need to be saved still make him a respectable man people choose to follow.
Instead of being someone who sits around, acts uninterested about everything and everyone, is constantly making creepy or out of place comments and looks like he is high on painkillers 24/7:
But if they are so irrelevant why did they send Jon, who is beloved in the north and probably considered a hero by many for killing the "mad queen", to a crap place for the rest of his life ? The Jon who is also a brother (even if not by blood) to the now King of the Six kingdoms AND the queen of the north? . The way it was shown it seem to be only because Grey Worm wanted it to be that way, which would indicate the unsullied now have military might the other lords absolutely don't want to enrage.
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Tygeezy
Member
We conjure up and respawn forces, why not ships? But for real, they could just take everything. I have a hard time believing the north has so many men left after being wiped out three times. At the Twins by the Frey/Karstark/Bolton betrayal, at the Battle of the Bastards, and then at the Battle of Winterfell, and yet there are supposedly thousands left ready to keep the dothraki and unsullied in check?
CrankyJay™
Member
I honestly wouldn't hate a mash up here.
As an aside, some fan made a video about a GoT spinoff with the same houses, but in modern times. I totally would have watched that.
LordOfChaos
Member
Like I said, I wouldn't have minded this exact end episode had the rest of it been fleshed out better. The season just seemed like D&D wanted to rush it to a finish where HBO and Martin both wanted more episodes. If season 8 was fleshing out the Night King and his ending (maybe some white walker combat we somehow haven't seen since hardhome, after Valerian steel swords were hyped for 8 years...) , and 9 was about the end of Cersei and Dany more gradually going mad, this ending would have landed much better.
Also...Jon was sent north to appease the Unsullied and yara...Both of whom are gone. Couldn't they send him an lol jk message to come back as soon as everyone leaves?
Granted Jon never wanted the crown and the (true)north is probably a fitting place for him anyways.
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CrankyJay™
Member
If HBO truly wanted more, couldn't they have just found replacements for D&D?
Jon Neu
Banned
Funny, for me seeing how some people go really out of hand to defend this objective mess makes me feel embarassed as a fan too.
Some people just needs to accept that the show went atrociously bad once they started running out of books.
And I don't know what are you talking about people wanting a happy ending, this thing was a happy ending. Jon even ends up smiling in satistfaction. Dany died and nobody cared, it was the most anticlimatic death of a protagonist I have ever seen.
We are supposed to feel sad because Arya goes to explore the west? We are supposed to feel sad because Jon goes back to the north? Nobody dies, not even Drogon. It was another failed attempt of D&D of giving a "bittersweet" ending when in reality they gave a Disney ending.
LordOfChaos
Member
Yeah I dunno what power dynamics there were. As far as we know HBO would have ordered more episodes but D&D thought they could end it in 6.
'Game of Thrones' Fans Remember HBO Wanted to Make More Season 8 Episodes, and They Are Furious
As complaints about the fast pace of Game of Thrones' final season grow louder, many fans are [...]
""HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season," Benioff said. "We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that. As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends." "
Kadayi
Banned
Are you for real? That's your out? People are plentiful, ships, on the other hand, are another matter entirely. The unsullied are Soldiers, not Shipwrights.
How about you sell me on the idea that killing Jon Snow serves any great purpose at this juncture for either the Unsullied or the Dothraki? Run a pros/cons analysis on it and come back to me.
Dat Grandiose Hyperbole.
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Tygeezy
Member
Why should I continue to sell you when you just setup a straw man quoting me out of context?Are you for real? That's your out? People are plentiful, ships, on the other hand, are another matter entirely. The unsullied are Soldiers, not Shipwrights.
How about you sell me on the idea that killing Jon Snow serves any great purpose at this juncture for either the Unsullied or the Dothraki? Run a pros/cons analysis on it and come back to me.
Dat Grandiose Hyperbole.
Kadayi
Banned
If you're going to magically pull ships out of your ass as a way to try and handwave a logistical reality, it seems sensible to go back to your original assertion about it being logical for Greyworm to execute Jom Snow and run a pro/cons analysis on it.
Jon Neu
Banned
They were ready to die for their queen, they are unsullied after all, they don't fear death.
It's just plot armor bending the script and the coherence of the characters, we have seen it all the time by now. Nothing new.
Jon Neu
Banned
Dat Grandiose Hyperbole.
I don't think you understand what an hyperbole means.
Kadayi
Banned
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Jon Neu
Banned
(4) Where is Ser Pounce? He would be the only living Lannister other than Tyrion?
The dragon flames couldn’t kill him... He would still have 8 lives left!
He was killed offscreen (yes, this is true).
Another hack move by those hack frauds called Redletter... I mean... D&D.
Tygeezy
Member
It was a joke. So now we want to talk about logic. D&D have been conjuring up unsullied and Dothraki after they were all but eliminated at the battle of winterfell. It's funny how we have to rewrite things for the logic to add up. If we are going by the results of the battle of winterfell, there should be a lack of army from both the north and the unsullied/dothraki. So then it would make sense that they couldn't hold Jon accountable. What we saw though was an entire respawn of an army. The two greatest armies on the planet whos soul motivation was to follow their queen. I don't believe the north could defeat those two in a battle, and all they know is war and fighting.
Jon Neu
Banned
The Dothraki and the Unsullied, both fearless, both in deep love with Dany who was almost like their literal Godess and the one who brought freedom for the Unsullied in the first place, the one they own their lives to.
And they took Jon prisoner instead of you know, kill him and move on with their lives. Because they feared the north army! They didn't fear the army of the dead, they didn't fear the Golden Company and the Lannisters, but they do fear the north army!
Welcome to let's defend every bullshit that happens in the show because reasons.
SirKicksalot
Member
Why didn't the Mongols leave after Sarah Connor died? This custom of theirs was a big deal in Season 2.
Also the way it was shot and edited made it seem like only the Unsullied leave Westeros.
strange headache
Banned
"They don't get to choose."
The Good
Daenerys turning full on fascist dictator
I really liked how they borrowed heavily from Leni Riefenstahl aesthetic in order to portray Daenerys' descent into a malevolent authoritarian ruler. Sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and they managed to convey this beautifully in her character. Daenerys wanted to do good, but in her utilitarian mindset she failed to realize that the end doesn't always justify the means. It was a powerful moment when all of her past flaws were condensed into one single catchphrase: "They don't get tho choose." The good world she wished for could never have been realized through the coercive power of military might, no matter how virtuous your intentions.
Drogon destroying the iron throne
Turn out, the dragon was the most humane of them all. He understood that it was not Jon who was Daenerys ultimate demise, but her thirst for power which is symbolized by the iron throne. It was only befitting to have Drogon destroy it, refusing to let his emotional grief take the better of him. Drogon, the weapon of mass destruction and ultimate might, melting down the ultimate symbol of power with his fiery breath. I can't say that it wasn't a powerful scene, although I found myself a bit perplexed to see Drogon a rational actor.
Tyrion's speech and the council
The council bursting out into laughter when Sam proposed a full on democratic system represented a biting sarcastic social commentary about the human condition. It was testament that the show is still GoT and that it will not deliver us a Hollywood ending where the good prevails. Humans are too stubborn and ignorant to make huge strides, what we get instead are the small but heavy steps forward. We've now moved on from a hereditary monarchy to an elective monarchy with a wise but humanly detached stoic ruler. Not the progress we would have hoped for in a perfect world, but progress nonetheless.
Bran the Broken was a well chosen name, implying that contrary to Daenerys, Bran is not going to rule with an iron fist and a mighty hand. Bran the Broken, the king who will not rely on his corporeal strength, but his extensive knowledge about the past. Bran the Broken, guided by reason instead of emotion, taking the brother of the one who broke him as his right hand. Westeros is now ruled by a cripple and an imp, personalities that cannot rely on their charm or strength, but their wit, excellence and foresight.
Tyrion's speech was elaborately written and I enjoyed every single word of it, it was powerful, inspiring and thoughtful. It perfectly encapsulated the core message of GRRM's story. Stories, or rather ideas, are what make good rulers and through their experiences, Bran and Tyrion have learned to wield their power more wisely and humbly. Bran is the very notion of a Platonian philosopher king and I'm fine with that.
Jon's tragic redemption
Jon has always been a tragic character, he encapsulates the story of the righteous but naive bound by duty. In a ruthless and imperfect world he embodies that doing the right thing is not always the easy thing. He is the antithesis to Daenerys' utilitarian and teleological approach, the deontological actor guided by a principled duty. He does what he has to do, not because it serves him, but because necessity dictates. As such it was only befitting that he would be the one to kill Daenerys, knowing full well what that would entail for him. He's the Samaritan, bearing the burden of this sinful world upon his shoulder.
The Bad
Grey Worm the push-over
They gave Grey Worm absolutely no agency. His army got decimated by the Night King, then his one true love was killed and then Jon finally took his queen. I'm aware that he's basically at a stand-still with the Northern army, but I highly doubt he would just let Tyrion become vice-king and let Jon bugger off to the north. He also just accepts Bran's orders because he's the new king now? It was quite apparent that he had to concede because the final episode did not allow for another conflict if the writers wanted to bring closure.
Tyrion's round table with the masters
The protagonists sitting around a table making banter was very reminiscent of the final episode of TNG. I guess the writers wanted to bring some comedic relief to the episode, but it felt rather disrespectful to the turmoil these characters just went through. King's Landing lies in ruins, the people are starving and in despair and they've got nothing better to do than make silly banter about brothels. I know they reference the starving population, but it's all brushed aside rather quickly for poor attempts at comedy. The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh? That being said, the little wink at "ASOIAF" was kinda neat.
Sansa's betrayal
The North has been independent for thousands of years, yeah I get it. But the truth of the matter is, Sansa is salty because Tyrion chose Bran over her. There's absolutely no good reason why Sana cannot pledge her allegiance to her beloved brother for the sake of a united kingdom. I guess they didn't want to let the show end too perfectly, but Yara refusing to pledge allegiance to Bran would have made much more sense.
The Ugly
Nothing has really changed
Westeros has a new king, the North remains independent, the different houses still have their squabbles, the iron throne cedes another throne... same old, same old. Spending 8 seasons only to return to the status quo feels a bit underwhelming. Everything resolved much too nicely and I think the final episode could have shaken things up a little bit more.
Bran the Undefined
Well ok, Westeros has got a new king, but what kind of king will he be? They had ample possibility to flesh out his character a little bit more, maybe have him give some proper orders rather than reminisce about the dragon. I still haven't gotten a clue what he's really about. With his population starving and his city in ruins, he doesn't seem overly concerned with these worldly affairs. His enigmatic "why do you think I came all this way" doesn't really explain anything and stands in stark opposition with his apparent lack of ambition and involvement.
The Dothraki just went poof
After the last episode I've been wondering how they are going to deal with the Unsullied and the Dothraki after Daenerys is inevitably killed. Turns out, the Unsullied are total push-overs and piss of to some Island somewhere and the Dothraki just disappear into thin air. Dafuq?
Arya goes West
Why? Does she despise her siblings that much that she needs to boldly go where no Westerosi has ever gone before? I know that's what she mentioned in one of the earlier episodes, but after all that's happened, it doesn't make much sense. The vanquisher of the greatest existential threat Westeros has ever known just rides into the sunset like a Cowboy in a cheap spaghetti western.
The Ending felt too perfect
Too much closure is can be equally as bad as not enough closure. I think the different story-lines resolved much too smoothly. Bran becomes King, Sansa becomes Queen of the North, Tyrion is back at his old post, Sam is now a Maester, Brienne is a Lady-Knight, Davos is dandy too and Bronn got what he wanted. Almost everybody is rewarded and those who don't just bugger off without a care in the world. Also, why exactly is Jon exiled back beyond the Wall? It's a rather pointless punishment after the Night King was defeated or are there more existential dangers lurking out there?
Conclusion
"All is well that ends well."
Kadayi
Banned
When you're attempting to pass off subjective as "objective" you've definitely crossed into 'exaggerated statements' territory. Still, be more bitter.
you have to earn those
What motivation? Their Queen is dead. There's no one to fight for. Greyworm might hate Jon's Guts for killing Dany, but he knows he can't just kill the king in the North and not damn his men to war with the northern forces and their allies. There's no gain to it for them, versus broker a peace between the various lords to find a new ruler and get themselves passage the fuck out of Westeros. Pros/Cons analysis.
strange headache
I think the Dothraki are seen getting on Ships also.
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