ethomaz
Banned
Nobody wants new-gen games being hold/limited by old hardware.
PS5 games will run only on PS5.
PS5 exclusives will take fully advantage of PS5 without hold back.
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Windows Central: "At launch, we've heard there won't be any "Xbox Scarlett"-exclusive games.
- Thread starter Dabaus
- Start date
PS5 games will run only on PS5.
PS5 exclusives will take fully advantage of PS5 without hold back.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Why can't they do both? Just like a PC game, why can't the game scale to the hardware?
CJY
Banned
The number 1 reason I personally would hate to see PS4 forward compatibility with PS5 is that next gen games will be held back by a vastly inferior CPU. Graphics are easy to dial-down, but a new CPU can lead to issues with compatibility, which is why we saw the mid-gen consoles using the same CPUs, just slightly upclocked.
It's different on the PC, because you have APIs which you are programming against, whereas most games are programmed a lot closer to the metal.
The second reason is from a marketing perspective for Sony. They will want to give every reason for people to upgrade to a new system as quickly as possible so they can drive forward gameplay innovation and technology. Having PS4 be forward compatible could jeopardise the whole concept of there being a PS5 at all, when 100 million people might decide they don't need the PS5 to play the latest games.
Forward compatibility is a great thing in concept, but it's far too risky for Sony to do this when the majority of their business is built upon gaming, and upon a swift uptake of next generation platforms.
Console gaming means nothing ($$) to MS, they can do it, there is no way Sony can.
Only if Xbox proves it first and dominates next gen with this strategy, will Sony likely follow in the following gen. Or as the case will be - their next system (as generations will be truly dead by that point).
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ethomaz
Banned
PC is hold by consoles today.
The games didn't use the fully hardware power they have because they are developed with consoles in mind.
With PS5/Nextxbox the PC will see a big jump (due the consoles being stronger than previous) to be hold again by the consoles in the follow years.
BTW the ideia of the dev having to work in a game that will scale to several hardware config already made the development limited to mininum specs... so they will only add things that can work at least in the mininum hardware... with some patch or condition to use some newer features... the core will be limited.
If you get a developer to make a game exclusive to Intel Core i9 and RTX 2080ti making abuse of AVX, RT, etc they won't run on old hardware at all but they will absolutely shine.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
This is such an outdated argument it's hilarious. So many people on GaF think they understand game development and API's, but in reality couldn't write a line of code.
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap lol
“Do you want the honest truth? This machine, [the PS4], is not so strong as you think,” Fares says. “This is like a five-year-old PC. If consoles were as powerful as PCs are today, you would see all different games. Most of the work developers put out there is to make them work on consoles.”
The PS4 is “like a five-year-old PC” and is holding games back, says developer
Update: A previous version of this article incorrectly cited the PS4 Pro as the console, when it was a standard PS4. Unveiled during EA’s E3 conference, A Way Out looks promising - from the team behind Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, the co-op adventure game offers asymmetrical drama filled wit
www.pcgamesn.com
"“No, I mean, there are certain limitations you have to work under,” Wardell said. “There’s what you can do and what is marketable. Ashes of the Singularity has sold a lot better than we ever thought it would. But we shouldn’t kid ourselves, it won’t be a top 10 seller any time soon overall, because for it to shine, you need 2GB of VRAm and 8GB of RAM and four CPU cores. And while hardcore gamers have that, it’s still not that common. And in order to do [something like] Lord of the Rings in real time, I would need a 16 core machine, 8GB of VRAM, and, say, 16GB of RAM, with either an AMD Vega or GeForce 1080. So I could do it, there will be no one to sell it to.” "
You can create the bullshit you want to try to make a point that doesn't mean it is true... what I said is a reality.
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CJY
Banned
Mainly, it's just extra work for devs: coding, testing for various platforms.
Sony are really looking at creating a monster of a machine for PS5... Did you see how much faster the loading times are? What if an open world game was built around having these super fast read speeds. how do you re-create that with PS4's slow SATA2 drive? They can't. Devs would have to design the game around the lowest common denominator, thus basically obviating the need for a new system at all.
That is just one example of how having mandatory forward compatibility will hamper the development of next gen games.
Ellery
Member
Difference too big in CPU and Memory. Lots of things need to be handled by that including A.I., physics, amount of objects etc.
You cannot say okay I am going to do a cross generation game and in the Xbox One version there are only 3 enemies on the screen while we have 15 enemies in the same situation on Xbox Next gen.
It would basically limit them to increasing visual fidelity which impacts the graphics part more like resolution, shadows, textures and all that.
I mean technically they could pull it off, but lets be real they are not going to bother to basically do two completely different versions of one game where in one version you have a huge city with thousands of buildings and in the other version you have a city where you have like 100-200 buildings.
ResilientBanana
Member
This headline is a Sony fanboys wet dream. You are never going to get a straight answer from anyone here unless they are a level headed individual with logical sense. To answer your question, they can. We’ve seen it done with PC games, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, and all play-anywhere titles. Games can be created to scale accordingly and look great. There is not a fictional game breaking limitation with first party titles. Third parties may suffer, but the budget is there for first party.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
This, did people forget what exclusives are for? Sony WILL have PS5 exclusives at launch to entice people to buy their console.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Yeap lol
“Do you want the honest truth? This machine, [the PS4], is not so strong as you think,” Fares says. “This is like a five-year-old PC. If consoles were as powerful as PCs are today, you would see all different games. Most of the work developers put out there is to make them work on consoles.”
The PS4 is “like a five-year-old PC” and is holding games back, says developer
Update: A previous version of this article incorrectly cited the PS4 Pro as the console, when it was a standard PS4. Unveiled during EA’s E3 conference, A Way Out looks promising - from the team behind Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, the co-op adventure game offers asymmetrical drama filled wit
"“No, I mean, there are certain limitations you have to work under,” Wardell said. “There’s what you can do and what is marketable. Ashes of the Singularity has sold a lot better than we ever thought it would. But we shouldn’t kid ourselves, it won’t be a top 10 seller any time soon overall, because for it to shine, you need 2GB of VRAm and 8GB of RAM and four CPU cores. And while hardcore gamers have that, it’s still not that common. And in order to do [something like] Lord of the Rings in real time, I would need a 16 core machine, 8GB of VRAM, and, say, 16GB of RAM, with either an AMD Vega or GeForce 1080. So I could do it, there will be no one to sell it to.” "
You can create the bullshit you want to try to make a point that doesn't mean it is true... what I said is a reality.
Your reality isnt as black and white as you'd like. History of gaming and computing says otherwise. Coding and API's say otherwise. Modern games THIS generation say otherwise.
thelastword
Banned
What's all the hubbub about......We don't know anything about scarlett apart from fanboy ramblings.......Scarlett could very well be a more capable XBONEX, one with a much better CPU....So if it is that they will be no exclusives between Scarlett, XBONEX and XBONES, I could see that happening, especially since we don't know what Scarlett is atm........
Now Anaconda is a different story, if MS does not differentiate this power gulf with some next gen software not hindered by lower end platforms, they are done.....
Now Anaconda is a different story, if MS does not differentiate this power gulf with some next gen software not hindered by lower end platforms, they are done.....
ethomaz
Banned
lol history just shows that.... games are hold back by weaker hardware.
The articles I quoted are modern... 2018 and 2019.
We will have a jump in PC games in quality/graphics/performance with the next-gen but after that it will be hold again by the weaker denominators.
Scale only worst if you what you design can works in all hardware you aim to sell you game (that means it needs to work in the minimum requirement to the top hardware)... now if you can make a game to work only on the top hardware in the world you will have something incredible better than anything you have today.
The fact you need to droop legacy support in new games (you increase the minimum hardware requirement) is to try to decrease the range and past hardware you will be hold back... so that way you move forward in a slow pace but you move.
Now seems like you have no ideia how development of any software works... you need to drop legacy support to a point because if not you will be hold back for life.
Games today can't envolve due the base consoles focus from devs.
Devs couldn't use a better AI because it won't run well on consoles.
Devs can't push better graphical features because it won't run well on consoles.
Even in the console space the Pro and in a more extend X are absolutely wasted with games that can't take full advantage of them because they need to work on base consoles.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Nope we had ps4 exclusives early on such as Driveclub, Killzone, Second Son, etc... With over like 70 million ps3 owners. Let's not try to minimize this rumor if true, it isn't a good look. You can have exclusives to next Gen as well as cross gen games just like last time. People want bonifide exclusives to take advantage of the hardware. Shit you have games like Infamous that still looks better than games coming out from the competition.
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Dee Dah Dave
Member
Pretty standard for the first year or two. Games can still be pretty different between the generations anyway. See Forza Horizon 2 on 360.
Or you might get 30fps on current gen and 60fps and better graphics on new gen. Stuff like that.
Plus there will be next gen only games at launch anyway, even if 3rd party. And some of those will be cross gen too.
Or you might get 30fps on current gen and 60fps and better graphics on new gen. Stuff like that.
Plus there will be next gen only games at launch anyway, even if 3rd party. And some of those will be cross gen too.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I'd believe you if there was evidence of that, but if they can port games to Switch by tweaking those exact things you stated. They can do the same thing for next gen. They will most likely build on Scarlett and scale backwards or vise versa depending on the point of development that they are in at this time.
EDIT: Just so people are aware the Switch is ~384 GFLOPS in a docked state.
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CJY
Banned
I'm not really talking about it as a pure technical limitation. I personally have stated that it is technically possible in this very thread. There is no point in bringing PS4 Pro into this argument, because PS4 & Pro are part of the same gen and designed from the outset to be compatible. I've already addressed this by stating the reason why the Pro & X have the same CPUs as the base consoles, while pretty much everything else was upgraded.
It's in Sony's interest to implement new technologies into their next gen console that will give the perception to the consumer that these games are simply not possible on the previous gen. It may just be marketing and propaganda, but that is they have sold every other gen, and coming off of the back of PS4, there's no way they can change that strategy now.
My comment about the read speeds of the drive that's going to be in PS5 is also being ignored. Mark Cerny's interview with Wired basically outlines this generational thinking in plain view.
Anyway, Hendrick's, you're just selectively quoting me without fully considering the full implications of getting rid of console generations for Sony, justification from a financial and economic point of view, or from the perspective of being the industry leader.
All we can do is take a wait & see approach. I'm just saying I wouldn't be holding my breath, that's all.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Don't waste your time some of these fans you know will never see wrong in the company they prefer even though you know they've been shafted plenty times before by same company.
This isn't about fanboys, trolls or whatever. If true, that just isn't good for ppl tht are jumping in next generation to see the tech fully realized and not held back. And looking at comments trying to minimize this stance and revise what is typical per past gems is just really funny. Acrobatics at its finest of course.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Some games will be created with PS4 spec in mind and will either have a patch for PS5 or a specific up port for PS5 which may increase framerate and resolution and brute force other effects (let’s call it the PC like approach).
Some other games will be designed and built around the new super fast I/O and Zen2 processor and those will be there to showcase the console and get the sales from the hungry early adopters. Sony, thank God, is not committing to an iterative generation-less model.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not sure they will waste the disc space to store code and assets for both on the same disc...
Imtjnotu
Member
ps2 had over 120 million sold at ps3 launch. and guess what. ps3 exclusives.
ps4 lauched when ps3 had 75+ million sold. and guess what. ps4 exclusives.
if you think there wont be PS5 exclusives at launch you gotta be dense
edit: started typing on my phone but moved over to my pc
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Y I K E S if true.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You can keep recycling the same words over and over doesn't make them true. But your blanket statements simply stent factual. Nobody is disagreeing that technology pushes things forward.
But your blanket statements of common denominator holding back software isn't true.
Maybe it was my misatke coming off a little passive aggressive but trust me, I have an idea of how software works considering my career so don't try to question me as someone who doesn't understand software and I'll do the same for you.
And you quoted a single developer which is simply an opinion not a rule.
The landscape of implementing API's that can change things on the fly has eveloved in ways not thought possible in the past even 5 years. The idea of having to drop legacy code Altogether is changing.
Imtjnotu
Member
ethomaz
Banned
I work with software development too lol
It is exactly how I told you.
For gaming is even more evident because there is focus that every game should first run well on consoles... if a feature didn't work in the console hardware it is put in the waiting list for a future PC code if they have time to do it.
Gaming development is held back by consoles today.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
We will have to agree to disagree.
Imtjnotu
Member
we will get both from 3rd party devs like we have in the past with AC, and Cod as examples
mejin
Member
Sony is not MS, but people always want to force some kind of parity.
ethomaz
Banned
I showed you recent articles from devs talking about the same subject...
You? Nothing to back up what you say.
But do you want another proof? After Next-gen console launch just compared the "Mininum requiriment" of the multiplatform games ... you will be surprised by an "unusual" boost in these specs... a big boost.
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Ellery
Member
I am actually not too familiar with the exact specifications of the Nintendo Switch and I can' say how the CPU in that compares to the Jaguar in the PS4/XboxOne.
Also just because there are games being ported to the Switch that were on the PS4/Xbox One it doesn't mean that those games ran into the CPU limit on those consoles.
That is a skewed way to look at things because those are isolated examples of a much too small sample size.
All I can do is tell you what work the CPU does and that the Zen2 CPU in the next generation console is atleast 3-5X better than the Jaguar in the PS4 and Xbox One.
If you think I am wrong then that is fine and you are free to do so, but there is a lot of workload that can only be done by the CPU which is in many cases a limiting factor of what Developers think they can pull off.
I can almost certainly guarantee that Developers will be restricted by the amount of RAM and CPU power if they go for cross-generationan gaming releases.
Most people won't be able to tell because they will focus on the GRAPHICAL differences between two versions and think "oh boy the next gen version looks so good at 4K",
but the real difference cannot be shown, because it was done during development where the developers had to cut corner in order to make the game run on the old CPU from the old/current gen consoles.
The only compromise I can think of that wouldn't require a lot of work would be render distance of objects which could be easily increased on new gen hardware which you could leave on low in old gen.
A.Romero
Member
I'm not really into the Xbox ecosystem so I will speak of Playstation.
Will there be ports of current gen games? Yes. I expect at least to see Death Stranding and The Last of Us to have a PS5 port. Does this mean there won't be any PS5 exclusive games at launch? No.
It would be really stupid to do so as there will be little incentive to jump to the next gen in the first few months, stunting growth for player base therefore the platform would not be so attractive to publishers. Otherwise it wouldn't be a generational leap, just a PS4 Pro 2 which doesn't make sense.
Resolution and framerate don't tell the full picture. For example, Shadow of Mordor had versions for PS3 and PS4 but the PS3 was seriously gimped given that the nemesis system was missing. If companies develop for the largest user base, then the capabilities of the new platform would not be exploited and there would be no incentive for a PSP owners to go to the next gen.
That said, I do think it will be possible to play PS5 exclusive titles on PS4 by using streaming tech.
Will there be ports of current gen games? Yes. I expect at least to see Death Stranding and The Last of Us to have a PS5 port. Does this mean there won't be any PS5 exclusive games at launch? No.
It would be really stupid to do so as there will be little incentive to jump to the next gen in the first few months, stunting growth for player base therefore the platform would not be so attractive to publishers. Otherwise it wouldn't be a generational leap, just a PS4 Pro 2 which doesn't make sense.
Resolution and framerate don't tell the full picture. For example, Shadow of Mordor had versions for PS3 and PS4 but the PS3 was seriously gimped given that the nemesis system was missing. If companies develop for the largest user base, then the capabilities of the new platform would not be exploited and there would be no incentive for a PSP owners to go to the next gen.
That said, I do think it will be possible to play PS5 exclusive titles on PS4 by using streaming tech.
CJY
Banned
"Missing the forest for the trees" comes to mind.
Havoc2049
Member
For Xbox anyways, the old console model is being left behind. Even currently, the Xbox One X provides a significant upgrade in games over the original Xbox One. Some games on the Xbox currently run the gamut of being sub 1080p/30fps (XB1) to 4K/60fps (XB1X). Then there is the whole convergence of the Xbox/PC platform. The old console model is dead.
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bitbydeath
Member
That’s how you get people to buy in.
MS don’t care because they’re going 3rd party. They don’t need to sell new hardware.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
What games or type of games do you think could be done on Pro and not Ps4
demigod
Member
I showed you recent articles from devs talking about the same subject...
You? Nothing to back up what you say.
But do you want another proof? After Next-gen console launch just compared the "Mininum requiriment" of the multiplatform games ... you will be surprised by an "unusual" boost in these specs... a big boost.
You just got trolled.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I showed you recent articles from devs talking about the same subject...
You? Nothing to back up what you say.
But do you want another proof? After Next-gen console launch just compared the "Mininum requiriment" of the multiplatform games ... you will be surprised by an "unusual" boost in these specs... a big boost.
You're arguing many different things and like I said we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not really in the mood to have a discussion with someone who's going to "lol" and "thumbs up" me. I like to have real conversations that have depth not pissing contents.
Like I said my fault for being passive aggressive with one of my sentences but it's clear you're not in this forum to talk.
Good day.
ethomaz
Banned
A lot of things can be done... creativity is not something closed and if you have more power to use you will always find a way to use it.
But when what you can do is limited by something else... you start to limit what you can do.
It is like the EA dev said in the article I posted... if you can focus and works only with GTX 1080 and Ryzen 8-cores on mind you will create something spectacular that can't run (and be sold) to older hardware.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Regardless there are plenty of comparison videos comparing Xbox One S, Xbox One X, PS4, PS4 Pro and PC Ultra Settings. It's literally the same thing. Battlefield V for instance, runs at 60fps on console low to medium settings, shitty FOV, shitty LOD, blah, blah, blah, in the end it looks mediocre at best. However I can run it at ~110 fps on 100 FOV, Ultra at 1440p and it looks phenominal. With my PC being better than both the consoles, it should. Why does this not translate to consoles? I'm not understanding as both platforms are x86 and share similarities. So much so that I can play Xbox games on my PC at a better fidelity than I can on Xbox One. Why can't the same thing be done for next-gen and current gen?
Insane Metal
Member
What the fuck are you talking about? No exclusives for new generational consoles? When has that ever been the case?
dottme
Member
I didn’t expect this. Most of the game will be cross gen. But there will be few 1st party games exclusive to the new gen to show off the technology.
It might not be the best games but they should be good enough to be machine seller.
CJY
Banned
The only way this whole argument can be summed up is with this word: Priorities
Ellery
Member
You could compare GTA V on PC with maxed out CPU-taxing settings and console version GTA V to see that there is a gigantic difference between foliage and render distance.
And that is a game that was ported to PC.
It is not financially lucrative for publishers to put big money into PC only games and optimize perfectly for PC.
The reason you think there is not a huge difference between PC and consoles is because of the reason I explained in my previous post.
When they create the game they are not going to focus on doing it with ultra high end PC hardware in mind. They want to game to run on PS4, Xbox One, Low End PCs, Mid range PCs and high end PCs.
There are no AAA games for PC that are perfectly optimized for ultra high end PC hardware and the reason is that it doesn't make sense financially.
Technically it would be possible. If you want to see what it would look like if developers only focused on ultra high end PC instead of selling games to most platforms just take a look at Ubisoft E3 trailers.
leo-j
Member
Why didn’t FF X run on ps1? Why didn’t KH run on ps1? Why didn’t RESISTANCE 1 run on ps2? How about heavenly sword on ps2? What about killzone shadow fall on ps3? Infamous second son on ps3?
Just because Microsoft is basically moving to PC cloud gaming, and is releasing all their games on their cloud platform, does not mean a ps5 will do a ps4 pro and just up the resolution and frame rate and do a graphics parity with ps4. Sony has never done that with almost any exclusives or first party.
Just because Microsoft is basically moving to PC cloud gaming, and is releasing all their games on their cloud platform, does not mean a ps5 will do a ps4 pro and just up the resolution and frame rate and do a graphics parity with ps4. Sony has never done that with almost any exclusives or first party.
Dabaus
Banned
When sony was previewing Spiderman on ps5 devkits they said the ssd lets spiderman move around like a rocket engine. Having an ssd would fundamentally change the way the game would be designed. So if all next gen systems are desinged with an sdd in mind, how can you down port that to inferior hardware without making drastic compromises? Its mot just taking it from 4k to 1080p here.
ResilientBanana
Member
Microsoft is selling games across platforms at this point X1S, X1X, XLockhart, XAnaconda, PC, Cloud, etc. The lowest common denominator will most likely be forced to stream next gen games at this point or they will build games intelligently. I'm thinking they will be building intelligently as they have the funding to do so. One does not simply pass up the opportunity to be on top by not having great looking games. For all we know, this article is hogwash.
Metro Exodus is anotther title that comes to mind that scales fairly well and includes Ray-Tracing on PC that makes it look phenomenal. It currently runs on Xbox One S also.
'Metro Exodus' Console Comparison Reveals A Big Surprise
'Metro Exodus' looks terrific on every console but not everything is what you might expect.
www.forbes.com
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