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[Gamernyc78]

You hit the fuckin nail on the head. Some of these posts read of willful ignorance. Sony has had launch exclusives each gen but for some reason the PS5 won't because...reasons?

Those ppl making those comments aren't ignorant they just have an agenda and are doing preemptive damage control if this ends up being true. They know damn well ps5 will have straight up exclusives with PS4 not in mind and of course cross gen like Sony has always done.

 

[ResilientBanana]

You hit the fuckin nail on the head. Some of these posts read of willful ignorance. Sony has had launch exclusives each gen but for some reason the PS5 won't because...reasons?

Sony will definitely have launch exclusives. But I think both sides will, every generation does.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Sony will definitely have launch exclusives. But I think both sides will, every generation does.

Yup, I'm hoping this rumor is bs.

 

[Grinchy]

It would be pretty foolish to try to sell a next-gen machine on the premise that it plays old games better. I don't really believe MS would release a brand new system that only plays enhanced last-gen games at launch. There's going to be something that is Xbone2 exclusive.

 

[Stafford]

There's also a thread about this on Reddit. I read through it and based on what I get from what they say is that it's very similar to PC gaming and the hardware. Plenty of older pc's can still run new games, just not as well as a super deluxe pc or whatever. They don't see it as a bad thing at all and shouldn't hold back the games for Anaconda at all.

This thread.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Well regardless Phil tweeted this. 14 exclusives at least sounds good to me, regardless. They are putting in work here.

 

[CyberPanda]

Well regardless Phil tweeted this. 14 exclusives at least sounds good to me, regardless. They are putting in work here.

Very nice. Thanks for posting this. This is nice to hear and some of the comments so far about the whole situation in this thread has been cringe worthy, and honestly very embarrassing.

 

[SonGoku]

Plenty of older pc's can still run new games, just not as well as a super deluxe pc or whatever.

How well does PC with 360 era hw run games?
How well does PCs with 2007 GPUs run current games?

 

[Stafford]

While some people are ok with this and others hate the idea...i just don't know what my stance on this is right now.

Didn't we have devs like Ubi at the end of last gen saying we really need new hardware, that stuff couldn't be done on the current systems anymore? So let's say MS goes with this approach, won't it "halt" true next gen games for a few years? Let's say they want to make Gears 6, but the things they want for the game surpass what the older consoles can do....what then?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Very nice. Thanks for posting this. This is nice to hear and some of the comments so far about the whole situation in this thread has been cringe worthy, and honestly very embarrassing.

I'm starting to notice something about you. Whenever it's some critique about Xbox you come with this holier than though attitude and come with comments like "omg comments are cringe worthy or embarrassing" you ever think some ppl are really worried that the console they might buy is developing games with the weaker console as a priority and holding back the superior console. This type of worry has been prevalent throughout the years with parity being a worry and sometimes rightfully so.

Get off the high horse.

BTW it's good that Xbox steps it up but I remember seeing tweets like that before and the games we ended up getting were Meh. Let's see what we get this time around.

 

[ResilientBanana]

How well does PC with 360 era hw run games?
How well does PCs with 2007 GPUs run current games?

That's a bit extreme, clearly those won't run very well, but the switch is underpowered and doing pretty well with new games that were ported to it.

Also, Xbox 360's processor was a triple core Power PC CPU. It wasn't x86 like the Jaguar. Clearly it will be easier to dumb games down from one gen to the other this time around because they are speaking the same language.

 

[A.Romero]

Well, if it turns out to be true, let's hope that it only involves resolution and framerate differences. IMO Switch comparissions are not a very good reference.

 

[Codes 208]

The only benefit to multiple skews is that whoever is selling it might get you to double dip. With 40 gig day one patches and a move towards all digital, there is no reason one skew couldn't be used. I very much hope it does go the PC or IOS route where you buy the game and then it scales to your platform. Why as a consumer anyone wouldn't want this is just assinine.

Consoles =/= pc’s. They run a pc-based architecture but the coding is still different between the two systems. A game designed for the XB4 would need to be designed to work on a potato (xb1 s) with its jaguar set-up, 1.3tflops, 8gb ddr3 and esram. Which is time taken away from properly optimizing the game to run on the newer architecture.

And being all-digital has nothing to do with the coding between system.

Edit: wait, if your concern is towards digital then why would you care if the sku’s are separate? You would need to download the same game on both systems anyway. The only difference is the xb4 version would, well, the xb4 version.

I don't think up-ports are what's being suggested here. I think what's being suggested is new IP's and new Games releasing on both systems simultaneously.

Releasing two different versions of a game for two different systems is like the very definition of port. I don’t want the system to launch with just cross-gen ports otherwise why would I need the new system?

 

[SonGoku]

that stuff couldn't be done on the current systems anymore?

How do you propose current gen consoles run games designed around nextgen CPU, RAM, SSD? The gap is too big to overcome.

So let's say MS goes with this approach, won't it "halt" true next gen games for a few years?

Define a few years, anything more than 2 years is suicide
What happens to Lockart btw? is rumored to be posioned as an entry level next gen machine, if it has no next gen exclusives what incentive will there be to buy it over the cheaper xboneS/ps4 or the X which runs games at 4K? The confusion will be WiiU levels of bad.

That's a bit extreme, clearly those won't run very well, but the switch is underpowered and doing pretty well with new games that were ported to it.

Well if you want to use PC as a statement of scalability use last gen hw
Switch has a more modern feature set than ps4/xbone, switch barely runs AAA multi platforms (doom, wolfestein, mk, hellblade) all look and run like crap on it

Also, Xbox 360's processor was a triple core Power PC CPU. It wasn't x86 like the Jaguar. Clearly it will be easier to dumb games down from one gen to the other this time around because they are speaking the same language.

Zen 2 over jaguar is a huge gap, to give you perspective:
A game that pushes the most out of zen2 cores to run at 60 fps will run at 20fps best case scenario on jaguar
Then there's also the SSD and RAM gap to overcome.

If it runs on current gen on any acceptable fashion it will 100% hold nextgen back.

 

[ResilientBanana]

How do you propose current gen consoles run games designed around nextgen CPU, RAM, SSD? The gap is too big to overcome.

Define a few years, anything more than 2 years is suicide
What happens to Lockart btw? is rumored to be posioned as an entry level next gen machine, if it has no next gen exclusives what incentive will there be to buy it over the cheaper xboneS/ps4 or the X which runs games at 4K? The confusion will be WiiU levels of bad.

Well if you want to use PC as a statement of scalability use last gen hw
Switch has a more modern feature set than ps4/xbone, switch barely runs AAA multi platforms (doom, wolfestein, mk, hellblade) all look and run like crap on it

Zen 2 over jaguar is a huge gap, to give you perspective:
A game that pushes the most out of zen2 cores to run at 60 fps will run at 20fps best case scenario on jaguar
Then there's also the SSD and RAM gap to overcome.

If it runs on current gen on any acceptable fashion it will 100% hold back nextgen.

Optimizations could be made to go backwards. Jaguar is a shitty processor but look at the BF series, it's hugely CPU intensive at 64 players, so much so that even some of the better processors have a hard time with it and it still runs at 60fps on console. That's quite the achievement. I don't expect parity quite honestly, but I do expect some games to be ported backwards. Either way, this rumor is an odd one, I'm not sure how much I believe it.

 

[SonGoku]

Optimizations could be made to go backwards. Jaguar is a shitty processor but look at the BF series, it's hugely CPU intensive at 64 players, so much so that even some of the better processors have a hard time with it and it still runs at 60fps on console. That's quite the achievement. I don't expect parity quite honestly, but I do expect some games to be ported backwards. Either way, this rumor is an odd one, I'm not sure how much I believe it.

Because games are designed around Jaguar as the base spec, thats the reason PCs can run BF at 200fps
Dont get me wrong crossgen will 100% happen just like any other gen and they'll fade away in 1 or 2 years max just like any other gen

There have to be next gen showcases to entice people to buy the new machines, now more than ever that we have mid gen refreshes advertised as 4k machines.

 

[Stafford]

But if it's all gonna be playable on the old systems, why even have Lockhart at all

How do you propose current gen consoles run games designed around nextgen CPU, RAM, SSD? The gap is too big to overcome.

Define a few years, anything more than 2 years is suicide
What happens to Lockart btw? is rumored to be posioned as an entry level next gen machine, if it has no next gen exclusives what incentive will there be to buy it over the cheaper xboneS/ps4 or the X which runs games at 4K? The confusion will be WiiU levels of bad.

Well if you want to use PC as a statement of scalability use last gen hw
Switch has a more modern feature set than ps4/xbone, switch barely runs AAA multi platforms (doom, wolfestein, mk, hellblade) all look and run like crap on it

Zen 2 over jaguar is a huge gap, to give you perspective:
A game that pushes the most out of zen2 cores to run at 60 fps will run at 20fps best case scenario on jaguar
Then there's also the SSD and RAM gap to overcome.

If it runs on current gen on any acceptable fashion it will 100% hold nextgen back.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of this at all if it's true. I really wish we'd be reading "there will absolutely be exclusives at launch day for the new Xbox systems."

I definitely worry about how maybe some devs at Xbox now cannot fullfil their vision for a certain game, as in it taking full advantage of the new systems, a game so advanced that it simply just can't run on the old Xbox One, not even slightly. So to make it be able to run on it, they just decide to hold back? I can't deny that i don't know super much about how this stuff works, but it does worry me.

I want Fable and whatever The Initiative is working to be taking full advantage of the next gen hardware. Like Ryse, no way in hell would that be possible on 360, maybe at some crazy low framerate.

 

[SonGoku]

But if it's all gonna be playable on the old systems, why even have Lockhart at all

exactly

 

[Codes 208]

exactly

Hence my issue. Next gen should be BC but locking NG to current gen just because reasons is absolutely asinine.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Because games are designed around Jaguar as the base spec, thats the reason PCs can run BF at 200fps
Dont get me wrong crossgen will 100% happen just like any other gen and they'll fade away in 1 or 2 years max just like any other gen

There have to be next gen showcases to entice people to buy the new machines, now more than ever that we have mid gen refreshes advertised as 4k machines.

Don't ruin my dream of me thinking my PC is just beefy as fuck.

 

[CyberPanda]

I'm starting to notice something about you. Whenever it's some critique about Xbox you come with this holier than though attitude and come with comments like "omg comments are cringe worthy or embarrassing" you ever think some ppl are really worried that the console they might buy is developing games with the weaker console as a priority and holding back the superior console. This type of worry has been prevalent throughout the years with parity being a worry and sometimes rightfully so.

Get off the high horse.

BTW it's good that Xbox steps it up but I remember seeing tweets like that before and the games we ended up getting were Meh. Let's see what we get this time around.

I want all companies to do well, because in the end it benefits all consumers. And, the comments in this thread are warranted, but also very embarrassing and hyperbolic. Games are developed on the top end systems, and simply scaled down. And, it’s always worked that way. Game development costs are increasing, and the traditional sense of game development has changed a lot in the last ten years. Developers, may it be nintendo, Sony or Microsoft want to make a game with a respectable budget and want to maximize profits. And, they don’t give a shit about you, or me. They only care about you or I pulling out the cash and giving it to whichever company caters to ones gaming tastes.

And if you don’t see the improvement in MS efforts has been making in terms to their first party, then I don’t know what else to say. In regards to all of this, no matter what any company does, it’s always comes to ‘damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.

 

[ethomaz]

But if it's all gonna be playable on the old systems, why even have Lockhart at all

That was my comment at start of the thread... this news (that already received an update) and Lockhart are contradictory.

 

[Fake]

The problem is people think 'exclusives' game will mess with BC for no reason, or BC will mess with 'exclusives'. They try to be ambitious on their PR, but fail miserably. The system need both of them, nothing less.
Its just like that 'gameplay vs graphics' argument bullshit. We can have both of them.

 

[Jigsaah]

Hmmm, well I mean what's an exclusive nowadays anyways with everything seemingly moving towards "platforms".

The newer studios are playing catch up and likely will be for the next few years and then maybe early mid gen we'll have a bonanza of games. I know they said they planned on launching at one game per quarter. Whether they are "exclusive" or not remains to be seen, but I doubt there's gonna be much in the way of exclusives for Microsoft anymore.

 

[baphomet]

Fucking terrible idea.

And anyone acting like new console generations don't launch with at least 4-5 exclusive next gen games have never actually been through a new console launch.

 

[Hendrick's]

Edit: wait, if your concern is towards digital then why would you care if the sku’s are separate? You would need to download the same game on both systems anyway. The only difference is the xb4 version would, well, the xb4 version.

I would care because I don't want to have to buy the game twice.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I would care because I don't want to have to buy the game twice.

So don’t. It will be BC, no?

 

[GermanZepp]

I don't want no ps4 game with butter resolution. I want ps5 exclusives games at launch.

 

[Mista]

I expected this + it’s stupid if they even thought about it. Years later though? Not a good call

 

[Codes 208]

I would care because I don't want to have to buy the game twice.

I’m sure Microsoft’s play anywhere policy would cross over to next gen, meaning you you wouldn’t need to buy the game twice in this context.

Third parties could also do similar things. When ghosts came out, you could buy the 360/ps3 version and for like $5 you would get a voucher for the digital version of the xbo/ps4 version.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I don't think casual gamers is synonymous with "buying a console at $500-600" for an exclusive game or two........Casuals will buy into the ecosystem a bit later.......It is the hardcore that gets the ball rolling..........The people who buy day 1 needs little convincing really.......They see a new Killzone or even Remastered Driveclub and they're there regardless....

You do have a good point, but I think even some of the hardcore will be hesitant to plunk down yet another $500 to $600 on some slightly better looking games that they can play on the consoles they already own. It’s maybe understandable at launch period, but imo years later could be a mistake. Of course I feel this would mostly apply to the audience who bought the mid generation consoles.

 

[Pimpbaa]

There will be some cross gen games and some exclusives just like the start of the current gen. Not having any games made from the ground up for new consoles would seriously harm their sales. Having must have games makes a must have console.

 

[somerset]

Cross gen periods are not fun- but are an essential part of the process.

Usually the day one concern is keeping confidence of the now last gen console owners. These people do not want to learn they are now *losers*- look at how many people on this forum whine about the 'outrage' of Sony and MS even thinking about new consoles.

Yet the hard truth is this. The original Xbone is now utter sh-t. Even at 1080, it is holding back game design. The PS4 is hardly better.

But the Xbox 1X, with all its improvements, is actually good to hold lesser versions of games really aimed at the Xbox Next. In other words games that support the Xbox 1X and the Xbox Next, but *not* the Xbone/s.

Games that *dump* the Xbone and PS4 are under dev at Sony and MS. Sony may even have some day ones (outside of the VR titles). MS is barely able to make AAA games people want to play (xboners still buy them cos they ain't got a choice), so the need to annoy current gen is less pressing at MS.

PS know this- it is easier to downgrade graphics than code. Any game slurping up all that Zen speed juice ain't gonna scale to the ancient CPU sh-it of the current gen. Yet the one thing all real gamers should crave is more code clever software- the one factor that can really transform games.

On the PC side, so long as you aren't stuck with any kind of 4-core Intel CPU, you are good to rock with the next gen games. But your current console- yuck.

 

[thelastword]

I'm starting to notice something about you. Whenever it's some critique about Xbox you come with this holier than though attitude and come with comments like "omg comments are cringe worthy or embarrassing" you ever think some ppl are really worried that the console they might buy is developing games with the weaker console as a priority and holding back the superior console. This type of worry has been prevalent throughout the years with parity being a worry and sometimes rightfully so.

Get off the high horse.

BTW it's good that Xbox steps it up but I remember seeing tweets like that before and the games we ended up getting were Meh. Let's see what we get this time around.

The thing about 14 games from Phil is, I've heard similar stuff before..........So expect some indies, an expansion to Ori, they will show Gears, maybe Halo Infinite, Maybe a Forza 8 teaser,Gears Pop, Ninja Theory Game etc....So their 14 games can stack up really quickly without really wowing or being anything substantial that will blow your mind....

 

[joe_zazen]

. Games are developed on the top end systems, and simply scaled down. And, it’s always worked that way

Anyone got a source for that?

 

[JoeyWestSide]

This is what I was expecting. I thought I heard somewhere that next gen games will be playable on xbo

 

[PennywisetheDancingClown]

That is dumb

 

[ResilientBanana]

Anyone got a source for that?

How about a source for the opposite? I see people making claims in forums quite a bit, but I've never seen proof of either scaling forward or backward. I do know that game models start high poly for normal mapping then polys get reduced to be used as in-game assets. But I'm not sure if that concept applies across the entirety of video games or not.

 

[demigod]

Folks, windowscentral already backtracked with an update on this.

Windows Central: "At launch, we've heard there won't be any "Xbox Scarlett"-exclusive games.

Microsoft is selling games across platforms at this point X1S, X1X, XLockhart, XAnaconda, PC, Cloud, etc. The lowest common denominator will most likely be forced to stream next gen games at this point or they will build games intelligently. I'm thinking they will be building intelligently as...

www.neogaf.com

 

[SonGoku]

How about a source for the opposite? I see people making claims in forums quite a bit, but I've never seen proof of either scaling forward or backward. I do know that game models start high poly for normal mapping then polys get reduced to be used as in-game assets. But I'm not sure if that concept applies across the entirety of video games or not.

uhmmm last gen, this gen

 

[DeepEnigma]

Folks, windowscentral already backtracked with an update on this.

Windows Central: "At launch, we've heard there won't be any "Xbox Scarlett"-exclusive games.

Microsoft is selling games across platforms at this point X1S, X1X, XLockhart, XAnaconda, PC, Cloud, etc. The lowest common denominator will most likely be forced to stream next gen games at this point or they will build games intelligently. I'm thinking they will be building intelligently as...

www.neogaf.com

 

[joe_zazen]

Folks, windowscentral already backtracked with an update on this.

Windows Central: "At launch, we've heard there won't be any "Xbox Scarlett"-exclusive games.

Microsoft is selling games across platforms at this point X1S, X1X, XLockhart, XAnaconda, PC, Cloud, etc. The lowest common denominator will most likely be forced to stream next gen games at this point or they will build games intelligently. I'm thinking they will be building intelligently as...

www.neogaf.com

After a shit storm of hate, lol.

Besides, ms has no console exclusives anymore, and they will want their games playable on a variety of pc’s. So putting them on Ones for a couple of years is expected, just like putting them on 4 core intel pcs without ssds is expected.

 

[DeepEnigma]

After a shit storm of hate, lol.

Besides, ms has no console exclusives anymore, and they will want their games playable on a variety of pc’s. So putting them on Ones for a couple of years is expected, just like putting them on 4 core intel pcs without ssds is expected.

What about 1.31TF GPUs though when 10-13TF consoles hit?

 

[JustP_Gaming]

You all forget MS dev kits allow for games to scale on the fly to target whatever spec machine they are working on. They start the game at the highest spec possible and work their way down. This all means nothing, trust me.

 

[SonGoku]

So putting them on Ones for a couple of years is expected, just like putting them on 4 core intel pcs without ssds is expected

Doesn't seem like a sound strategy when they want to sell Lockart

You all forget MS dev kits allow for games to scale on the fly to target whatever spec machine they are working on. They start the game at the highest spec possible and work their way down. This all means nothing, trust me.

i can't wait to see the next gears running on 360 or comparable hardware.

 

[joe_zazen]

What about 1.31TF GPUs though when 10-13TF consoles hit?

If i had to guess, they will make games that run on modest PCs like all pc pubs. Xones will be part of that group for a couple of years post launch. Then, after holiday 2022, they will be legacy, and minimum specs will rise to 4TF and 4 or more core, 2015 or later cpus? I cannot see them requiring an ssd though until the majority of pc gamers have them.

People that buy the new console early will be like people who buy $1000 nvidia cards. they get better graphical settings and more fps but the same gameplay and they seem happy with it, so i guess early adopter nextbox owners will be too.

Like, i don't know why MS would start publishing everything on pc only to cut out pc owners that don't have 2020 gear and a super fast ssd.

 

[joe_zazen]

Doesn't seem like a sound strategy when they want to sell Lockart

If that was their primary goal, it would have exclusives.

 

[Three]

Ohhhhhhh.... is he trying to backward? Like I said the story sounded like bullshit.



Dabaus you can update the op

This seems more like responding to negative feedback. GameCore is about getting xbox one games, mobile games, Xbox scarlett games, etc working on all platforms like UWP.

Crazy how people can play games on PC bot with and without an SSD. Longer load times aren't going to break the game.

That's because no game is developed with an SSD as standard and that's exactly the point.
Hold stuff back and keep making money.

 

[Klart]

A console launch with no exclusive games?

Then why the hell would I buy that?

That would be the biggest f up ever for a console launch.

Even bigger than the Xbox-One reveal at E3.

I doubt MS or Sony would be that stupid. The launch would be a disaster.

 

[Three]

It would be pretty foolish to try to sell a next-gen machine on the premise that it plays old games better. I don't really believe MS would release a brand new system that only plays enhanced last-gen games at launch. There's going to be something that is Xbone2 exclusive.

Isn't that what the Xbox One X is? People were raving about that. You got Super Luckey's Tale at launch. No new game to actually show off its power. Microsoft Studio games don't seem to give a shit about making things 'next gen looking' except maybe Playground. Most of their games look like ass compared to even base console top tier games.

They will probably save the graphics update they planned for minecraft and make that next gen exclusive though, not because the old gen isn't capable of some of it but to entice people to buy that hardware while still retaining a version of the game for both.

When your focus is online games, mtx, and services gen transitions and exclusive next gen games become bad news because you don't have the install base to maintain that model. To gain anything you would need to make it available on a lot of devices. To make big budget single player games on a small install base and still try to profit greatly you would need to kill second hand sales. I can see single player next gen games from The Initiative or Ninja Theory. Let's see how those look.