Support NeoGAF

[TheDuskwalker]

It's funny too, because Astral Chain was in development before Nier: Automata.

It's also funny because Nier Automata wasn't exactly a graphical powerhouse with the most perfect performance ever either, not to mention on base PS4 and X1 it didn't hit 1080p either.

No I haven't played it. Not until it's on sale. So I can't judge now.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with me.

Well you said people are giving it perfect 10's when it's far from it, if someone says a game is far from a 10 I would hope that means they played it if they're giving an opinion on it..

We have both extremes in all games. So why's it any different here? Why's it such a big deal? In fact, I don't even care about scores.

Who said it's a big deal? It's mostly laughing at butthurt fanboys like usual.

Also this isn't exclusive to Astral Chain, another Nintendo exclusive, Fire Emblem Three Houses, got review bombed at the same time. It was in the 80% user score for around a month, then suddenly dropped to the 60%'s a few days ago. I mean Fire Emblem Three Houses has only been out a month, I guess hundreds of people that legit disliked the game all did user score votes at the same time right? I'm sure it's just a coincidence it coincided with Astral Chain right? RIGHT?

About performance, that's what I take from their comment. On the other hand, is it a crime if someone suggests a game could benefit from better hardware, especially ones made by 3rd parties?

Except it's not 3rd party, it's a first party game made by a 3rd party dev, just like Bloodborne or Sunset Overdrive.

Hideki Kamiya Responds To Player Who Demanded Astral Chain For PlayStation 4

In the last few days, angry gamers all over the world review bombed Astral Chain on Metacritic just because it was exclusive to Nintendo Switch. A Japanese Twitter user, who really wanted the game …

nintendosoup.com

 

[Lionel Richie]

Do they even need to? PlatinumGames already makes most of the exclusive for Nintendo. In fact I don’t think PlatinumGames ever made exclusive games for PlayStation or Xbox.

It would make me relax a bit on every game they release thinking they might go under if it bombs. Plus, it's just a god tier combination. Like Insomniac for Sony or Obsidian for Microsoft, it just makes too much sense.

 

[kevin_trinh]

I hope Nintendo buys Platinum.

Never happen, coz Platinum game won't sell, that's fact.

 

[Danjin44]

Never happen, coz Platinum game won't sell, that's fact.

https://www.dualshockers.com/astral-chain-nintendo-switch-sells-well-uk/

 

[kevin_trinh]

https://www.dualshockers.com/astral-chain-nintendo-switch-sells-well-uk/

This game never past 2m sale in life time, you can quote me on that, same as every other Platinum game. Even reaching 1 million is a succeed for this game.

Will they have profit, sure, but not much. Platinum can only make low budget game, that's 2nd fact.

 

[Romulus]

All the people whining about it being better on PS4 - sure, when I can play the PS4 literally anywhere. On my TV, on the go, on an airplane, etc.

Even when I traveled, I left my switch at home in favor of PS4. Anytime I was out on the road, I would just rather wait and play that at the hotel. I feel like you lose so much on those tiny screens.

 

[Zannegan]

Metacritic console war is even worse than gamefaqs console war.

What the heck are you even talking about?
Without Nintendo there wouldn't be Astral Chain.

If I had to guess, it's a sad attempt at equivalency to Epic using Fortnite money to buy exclusivity at the 11th hour to prop up their store.

 

[CrisPy2019]

Pleaaaase Platinum Games!

Do an announcement and say the following: Due to our game having so many user bad reviews on metacritic which means our games do not resonate with the audience we decided to drop development of the PlayStation and Xbox port of astrail chain.

Please do it even tho it's a lie.
Please make the idiots go mental over their stupidity.

 

[DonF]

And all console exclusives will perform better on PC, with that logic console shouldn’t have exclusive because all games will perform better on PC.

You just went from one extreme to the other.
I never stated that the switch exclusivity was bad, I'm just stating a fact. Switch is the weakest console.
Also another fact, most if not all platinum games are 60 fps and action oriented.
And the last fact: astral chain is an action game from platinum that runs at 30 fps.

If anyone here is being heavy and fanboy, it's you.

 

[captainraincoat]

Great game....One of the best driving games in years.....but

 

[Revolutionary]

Honestly, the Switch exclusivity is the worst thing about the game. I finished it up last night and while I absolutely loved it, the performance issues are palpable. I'd love to see the game in the glory of 1080/60, but alas...

My best hope for such is Nintendo porting the game to their next console, where I'd undoubtedly have to buy the game again.

 

[Danjin44]

You just went from one extreme to the other.
I never stated that the switch exclusivity was bad, I'm just stating a fact. Switch is the weakest console.
Also another fact, most if not all platinum games are 60 fps and action oriented.
And the last fact: astral chain is an action game from platinum that runs at 30 fps.

If anyone here is being heavy and fanboy, it's you.

Again, Astral Chain is different from DMC and Bayonetta, it was made with 30 FPS in mind. Director himself mentioned this on Digital Foundery coverage.

 

[mckmas8808]

So people are willing to believe review bombs happen here, but not against the latest Star Wars movies?

 

[DonF]

Again, Astral Chain is different from DMC and Bayonetta, it was made with 30 FPS in mind. Director himself mentioned this on Digital Foundery coverage.

are they really going to say the contrary ?
also, its obvious coming from a smart dev. Unlike Control for instance, that has atrocious frame rate in all consoles, Platinum knows their platform and knew to budget switch's performance.

 

[Bandi]

It's also funny because Nier Automata wasn't exactly a graphical powerhouse with the most perfect performance ever either, not to mention on base PS4 and X1 it didn't hit 1080p either.


Well you said people are giving it perfect 10's when it's far from it, if someone says a game is far from a 10 I would hope that means they played it if they're giving an opinion on it..


Who said it's a big deal? It's mostly laughing at butthurt fanboys like usual.

Also this isn't exclusive to Astral Chain, another Nintendo exclusive, Fire Emblem Three Houses, got review bombed at the same time. It was in the 80% user score for around a month, then suddenly dropped to the 60%'s a few days ago. I mean Fire Emblem Three Houses has only been out a month, I guess hundreds of people that legit disliked the game all did user score votes at the same time right? I'm sure it's just a coincidence it coincided with Astral Chain right? RIGHT?

jesus, the ps4 fans are so fucking pathetic. salty af. cancer of the internet. seriously.

 

[Zannegan]

So people are willing to believe review bombs happen here, but not against the latest Star Wars movies?

Pretty off-topic, and, honestly, a stretch. I'm having a hard time thinking of a more apples-to-oranges comparison that you could come up with to make a point than comparing a Disney Star Wars movie to a Platinum action game.

jesus, the ps4 fans are so fucking pathetic. salty af. cancer of the internet. seriously.

I have a PS4. I have enjoyed quite a few games on it. I'm also looking forward to this one and think the review bombing is beyond pathetic. I'm sorry your favorite company didn't come out on top this gen, but there's always next year. In the meantime, could you possibly stop trying to paint all PS4 fans as evil with that broad, broad brush you're using? The only group you're making look bad/salty in here is Xbox fans.

 

[flacopol]

ok this act of bomb reviews is crap , but the exclusivity is good?

IMO is one of the worst things in the gaming industry (only for us) , head to head with micro transactions

 

[Danjin44]

IMO is one of the worst things in the gaming industry (only for us) , head to head with micro transactions

Without exclusives some games wouldn’t exist because others aren't willing to funded, this why Bayonetta 2 became exclusive.

 

[KOMANI]

People caring more about plastic than the people making games. Nice.

 

[Zannegan]

ok this act of bomb reviews is crap , but the exclusivity is good?

IMO is one of the worst things in the gaming industry (only for us) , head to head with micro transactions

When it funds and allows games to exist that otherwise wouldn't (like Bayonetta 2, this game, and pretty much every exclusive from the WiiS360 generation back to the beginning)? Absolutely.

When it takes games that would have been available everywhere and locks them down to one console or storefront at the end of development? Nope. That's BS.

Pretty clean distinction, IMO.

 

[Fbh]

LOL user reviews.
This thread seems like a repeat of the Bayo 2 reaction. Where people assumed Platinum got 30 calls a day from third party publishers begging them for the chance to publish Bayo2, but then came evil Nintendo offering them more money and robbing Ps4/XB1/PC users from the chance of playing it. When it's more like if Nintendo didn't offer to fund and publish the game, there probably just wouldn't have been a Bayo2.

Platinum makes great games that sadly don't tend to sell that well, so I doubt they're in such high demand. Astral Chain would have been nicer on a more powerful system, but ultimately I'm glad Nintendo is willing to invest in them because chances are no Nintendo would mean no Astral Chain and Bayo2/3 instead of those games being multiplatform.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Are they really sure it's just due to it being a Switch exclusive? The Switch has tons of non-Nintendo exclusives, I haven't seen any of those get review-bombed.

I do know there were some complaints about cops in the game and the usual riftraft that can bring. Is there a chance some of these review bombings are more about that stuff vs. it being Switch-exclusive?

 

[mckmas8808]

Pretty off-topic, and, honestly, a stretch. I'm having a hard time thinking of a more apples-to-oranges comparison that you could come up with to make a point than comparing a Disney Star Wars movie to a Platinum action game.

It's kinda off-topic, but while reading the thread I had a flashback to the days where many of GAF told me that review bombing wasn't a concern when I mentioned it about The Last Jedi movie. Hopefully, we are past that stage and can fully and openly acknowledge that angry people on the internet review bomb many things for various reasons. And it's usually for silly reasons.

 

[Zannegan]

It's kinda off-topic, but while reading the thread I had a flashback to the days were many of GAF told me that review bombing wasn't a concern when I mentioned it about TLJ movie. Hopefully, we are past that stage and can fully and openly acknowledge that angry people on the internet review bomb many things for various reasons. And it's usually for silly reasons.

They can, but I'm going to go ahead and say that the vast audience of a Disney funded an marketed Star Wars, coming off the back of a well-received Episode 7, is going to be a heck of a lot more insulated from bombing than a little action game from P*.

My position is that TLJ really was that divisive, with lots of people disliking it, and lots thinking it was great. I'm sure review bombing went on (and review... un-bombing? How do we say that?) But with a piece of media that large and that widely discussed, I doubt either moved the needle by a noticeable margin. This game, on the other hand, has a much smaller potential audience and will have only a fraction of SW's reviews, so it's actually vulnerable to score manipulation.

 

[Romulus]

Again, Astral Chain is different from DMC and Bayonetta, it was made with 30 FPS in mind. Director himself mentioned this on Digital Foundery coverage.

Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard to try and minimize the effect of a higher framerate. Just looking at 5 seconds of gameplay you can tell how much 60fps would benefit it.

 

[Danjin44]

Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard to try and minimize the effect of a higher framerate. Just looking at 5 seconds of gameplay you can tell how much 60fps would benefit it.

I’m sure it does but Astral Chain combat is not negatively effected by 30FPS because when PlatinumGames designing the combat for Astral Chain it was made being 30FPS in mind. You call it silly as much you want Astral Chain is exclusive to Switch so PG are smart enough to design combat that 30FPS doesn’t effect combat badly.

 

[PocoJoe]

Maybe it is a bad game? I mean when it is on nintendo =

Fanboys give 10/10 to anything

Nonfanboys counter it with 0/10.

Like mario Odysseuy, maybe ok game but far from 10/10. More like 8/10 max, and still it got praised to The heavens.

So i would give it 0/10 too, to counter too high fanboy values.

 

[Danjin44]

Maybe it is a bad game? I mean when it

Except most people actually played the game enjoyed it.

 

[Vawn]

So i would give it 0/10 too, to counter too high fanboy values.

The only thing sadder than fanboys are anti-fanboys who are more interested on hating what you like than enjoying their own interests.

You 0/10 guys fall into that category.

A 0/10 user score simply means they did not play the game, but are somehow offended by (or jealous of) the game's popularity.

 

[Romulus]

I’m sure it does but Astral Chain combat is not negatively effected by 30FPS because when PlatinumGames designing the combat for Astral Chain it was made being 30FPS in mind. You call it silly as much you want Astral Chain is exclusive to Switch so PG are smart enough to design combat that 30FPS doesn’t effect combat badly.

Sure its "fine" at 30fps, but basically this just means they didn't have the headroom for 60fps. You can argue that about most genres and say they're also designed with "30fps in mind." that's not what I'm getting at though.

 

[Danjin44]

Sure its "fine" at 30fps, but basically this just means they didn't have the headroom for 60fps. You can argue that about most genres and say they're also designed with "30fps in mind." that's not what I'm getting at though.

Look not all games able to run at 60FPS even PS4 pro and X1X but that doesn’t makes the game bad or unplayable. I’m sorry I can’t miss out on epic game like Astral Chain just because it runs at 30FPS.

 

[zenspider]

Has anyone read the user reviews? Exclusivity seems like a dumb reason.

Since the is an NL pull, I don't mind posting my comments from there:

Review bombing is important because it gives people the opportunity to interject in the media and PR narrative. Too often a game's technical issues or developer's politics or policies don't get addressed (intentionally or otherwise) in coverage, and review bombs can bring this to light.

The problem here is, with Astral Chain we still don't know why. Exclusivity doesn't sound like a likely reason.

Astral Chain is probaly a bad example here, I'm thinking Skyrim on PS3 and the like - the game released in a broken, unplayable state (after x amount of hours played and always getting worse). Not one outlet reported this before how many millions of people bought it.

I see your point too, but "entitled and childish" is also the view of this by the media who wants complete dominion over sensemaking and tastemaking. Review bombing is about as childish as rating a game with a number from 1 to 10. I agree there's better ways to be critical, or that are worth taking more seriously, but bombing is, as far as I can tell, the only way to get a groundswell complaint to bubble to the shallow, superficial surface. I mean hey, we're talking about it.

 

[flacopol]

Without exclusives some games wouldn’t exist because others aren't willing to funded, this why Bayonetta 2 became exclusive.

When it funds and allows games to exist that otherwise wouldn't (like Bayonetta 2, this game, and pretty much every exclusive from the WiiS360 generation back to the beginning)? Absolutely.

When it takes games that would have been available everywhere and locks them down to one console or storefront at the end of development? Nope. That's BS.

Pretty clean distinction, IMO.

Both cases named Bayonetta 2 , agree , excellent game, but imo is like egg and chicken , you have another ways to find founds , the bad habits of console exclusivity is moving to pc behind the epic store, you have money ? ok, you can change the rules.
I don´t have a problem with that , I´ll wait to borderlands 3 came on steam , not for steam , just to have the opportunity , but a lot of people are going to buy it day one anyways , obviously you could do whatever you want with your money , but IMO the companies use your anxiety to sell and create in the customer the habit to enter on X store to buy X game , because the will sell it "before" , the same with the crap release date with different bundle tiers (division 2) , the last DLC in the division 2 is to only have access to the new content a week before the rest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I always use the same example , maybe is a fanboy but Path of exile , was created thanks of a little group of developers and donations , I was happy given a lot of money since close beta (not now, the last year tencent appears in the scene and I incline to not donate until they low the mtx prices)

My apologies for my broke English

Edit: "I happy put more a lot of money"

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Danjin44 in shambles.

 

[Romulus]

Look not all games able to run at 60FPS even PS4 pro and X1X but that doesn’t makes the game bad or unplayable. I’m sorry I can’t miss out on epic game like Astral Chain just because it runs at 30FPS.

Huh? I'm not saying it's unplayable or bad. It looks quite good, even at 30fps. You must have misread my post.

 

[Danjin44]

Huh? I'm not saying it's unplayable or bad. It looks quite good, even at 30fps. You must have misread my post.

Sorry, I guess I did.

 

[Danjin44]

It’s they removed those bombing reviews.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/astral-chain

 

[EDMIX]

without them they would be no game.

? Unknown as they could have just went to a another publisher, like Sega or MS or Activision or any number of publishers they've went to in the past.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yeah, I noticed that here in the UK. It's even worse on Youtube. Xbox excluisive stuff gets really trashed.

I guess it gives us an idea of who has the worst fanbase....

I suppose both consoles fans have their bad apples. Sony just has an orchard...Microsoft has a backyard garden.

 

[EDMIX]

Instead people blaming Nintendo or Platinum for Astral Chain being exclusive, maybe people ask Sony and Microsoft to why they don’t fund PlatinumGames just like Nintendo does?

Because Scalebound....

Because they saw what happened to Star Fox Zero maybe. I'm sorry but as much as I like the team, I must be honest with how I feel about them. They have LOTS of misses and having games canceled and being kicked off projects etc is not a good look. Maybe ask yourself why SEGA themselves are not seeking to fund this team either? Stop making it JUST about Sony and MS, even publishers that originally backed this team that don't make systems, have backed off working with them. So I wondered why SEGA didn't work with this team as much as they did when they first came out and those misses, cancelled games etc told me what MS was saying about Scalebounds development might be the truth.

Many of you know me to not be a big fan of MS, but I'm being as fair as I can be. What happened with Scalebound makes sense if you consider Platinum has a long string of bad games, they have a bad habit of working on like 7 projects at once and then acting surprised when a game fails, so when I heard Scalebound got canned, I didn't just RUST to the whole "MS hates games" thing, I felt maybe there was truth to issues with that team. So something tells me those "creative differences" has to do with issues with the team, development etc. So maybe stop trying to force it to be like "ask Sony and Microsoft", Ask SEGA and other past publishers why they are seeking to not fund some of their projects.

 

[mcjmetroid]

? Unknown as they could have just went to a another publisher, like Sega or MS or Activision or any number of publishers they've went to in the past.

Sega published the first Bayonetta but didn't want to publish the second. The game was almost cancelled before Nintendo stepped in. One would think even back then they would have loved for the game to go multiplatform but it didn't happen.

But Astral Chain is now an Nintendo IP funded by Nintendo from the start. It's not part of a series. So while I can understand why people might have been upset about Bayonetta 2 because the previous game was on other platforms, This series was never on another platform so.. I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

[EDMIX]

I'm not sure what the problem is.

? well...actually reading the context of the post would be a start.

Sega published the first Bayonetta but didn't want to publish the second

Yes..."but didn't want to publish the second" As in, clearly MS isn't the only one with issues with this team.

The rest of your post has next to nothing to do with what I posted.

But Astral Chain is now an Nintendo IP

I'm not sure its been confirmed who owns the IP tbh. Nintendo also published and funded Bayonetta 2, a SEGA owned IP...

So it wouldn't be the first time they funded and published something they don't own.

I can understand why people might have been upset about Bayonetta 2

Sure...and you can have that conversation with someone actually talking about that...


At the end of the day, this team has used several publishers in the past to fund or publish a title. For anyone to pretend as if its the ONLY way the title would exist I feel is a bit exaggerative.

 

[Three]

The sad part is that claims like this end up forcing factions that have never played the games to either give it a fake high or fake low score once they hear of it.

 

[Doom85]

Platinum has bad games? Well, there's Ninja Turtles, and...............? Seriously, Bayonetta 1 and 2, Metal Gear Rising, Nier Automata, Wonderful 101, all these games rock, and even Transformers and Korra are pretty good for what they are (yes, Transformers is pricey for its length/content, but I don't consider relevant to the actual quality of the game).

And I don't count Star Fox Zero. There's no evidence to suggest whether it was Nintendo or Platinum who decided on the bizarre gameplay and design choices for that game, but honestly knowing the company, look I love Nintendo but Star Fox Zero's shortcomings really felt like they were Nintendo's fault. Didn't help that Miyamoto had said there hadn't been a Star Fox game for so long because they didn't want to constantly be releasing a similar-feeling game which A) doesn't mean you need to make such drastic changes that many people didn't want, and B) oh yeah, only a mere DECADE since the last game, clearly people were equating it to Assassin's Creed with its nonstop release schedule!

 

[mcjmetroid]

? well...actually reading the context of the post would be a start.



Yes..."but didn't want to publish the second" As in, clearly MS isn't the only one with issues with this team.

The rest of your post has next to nothing to do with what I posted.



I'm not sure its been confirmed who owns the IP tbh. Nintendo also published and funded Bayonetta 2, a SEGA owned IP...

So it wouldn't be the first time they funded and published something they don't own.



Sure...and you can have that conversation with someone actually talking about that...


At the end of the day, this team has used several publishers in the past to fund or publish a title. For anyone to pretend as if its the ONLY way the title would exist I feel is a bit exaggerative.

Hey!

This thread is about Astral Chain getting review bombed mostly because it's exclusive to Switch.
I don't see how going back to Bayonetta 2 as an example is not relevant to the discussion. It's where this ridiculous fan outrage at exclusives began and also where their relationship with Nintendo started.

Since you didn't get what I meant I'll further explain to you whether you whine about it 3 times in the next post or not...

Platinum have a good relationship with Nintendo. So based on their relationship.
It is likely that A) Nintendo commissioned Platinum to make another game for the Switch directly before knowing what it actually was due to their trust or B) Astral Chain was in development and Nintendo picked it up

I'm leaning more towards (A) as it specifically looks like the game is tailor made for the Switch hardware also if you're Platinum - your games have never sold particularly well on Nintendo hardware so you would WANT your games to be multi-platform... I mean why wouldn't you.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

ah yes. nothing like having to buy a terrible piece of hardware again from nintendo thats made for kids to play yet an another japanese games because thats a thing.

just kidding. am not gonna buy any piece of shit device nintendo makes until they put effort into their hardware

 

[Lionel Richie]

ah yes. nothing like having to buy a terrible piece of hardware again from nintendo thats made for kids to play yet an another japanese games because thats a thing.

just kidding. am not gonna buy any piece of shit device nintendo makes until they put effort into their hardware

Sony fanboys are the worst kind of shitposters.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

Sony fanboys are the worst kind of shitposters.

damn so am a sony hater and fanboy at the same time. interesting strategy. I don't think am spending 300 dollars on a 720P terrible LCD display with cheap plastic that looks like a kindergarten and 100 dollars worth of hardware.

 

[Romulus]

damn so am a sony hater and fanboy at the same time. interesting strategy. I don't think am spending 300 dollars on a 720P terrible LCD display with cheap plastic that looks like a kindergarten and 100 dollars worth of hardware.

But you can play it on plane, because you might never land.

 

[EDMIX]

This thread is about Astral Chain getting review bombed mostly because it's exclusive to Switch.
I don't see how going back to Bayonetta 2 as an example is not relevant to the discussion.

Never said it wasn't, simply save it for a user making that argument. I mean...you are telling me this as if anything I've posted is debating you on it or something. You are basically trying to force a narrative to argue about something that isn't being posted by me. Post that reply to someone arguing that please. My post legit only states we have zero evidence that they had no other choice but 1 publisher, clearly they've used other publishers in the past and I don't see anything to even remotely suggest that this could never exist under any other publisher or something. I hate to ignore folks on here, but you seem to be dead set arguing about something not being posted.