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[Panajev2001a]

It makes NO sense for any company to single out their previous install base in the first yr or so. Every generation the first round of platform exclusive games are on the new and old gen machine. You can't expect to release a multimillion dollar game just to have it on a new ps5 or xbx with no install base.

Not from the first parties. Some of the studios can support the tail end of the generation, like Sony has always done, and the rest can give great reasons why giving them £399 or so for their new console was a good idea. This also paved the way for third parties to start moving software over as people migrate to the new console... which you do want: the more HW:OS combinations you support the more it costs and limits you or some your customers are getting shortchanged.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

i'll just leave this list:

Flower
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack
Resogun
Sound Shapes
Escape Plan
Flow

I read somebody earlier talking about how Killzone was some incredible game. Aside from looking pretty, the game had that big a delay between pushing a button and the action that I had chance to stop and think of all the better games I could be playing.

HOWEVER...

If Sony end up releasing PS5 with Demons Souls remake, then fuck it all in the arse, because that's it for me, game over boyo's... I mean I was already buying both at launch but fuck a duck that will take some beating. Its not exactly a big game that will sell gangbusters to the common folk but fuck if that doesn't make me MOIST...

M O I S T
O
I
S
T

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It makes NO sense for any company to single out their previous install base in the first yr or so. Every generation the first round of platform exclusive games are on the new and old gen machine. You can't expect to release a multimillion dollar game just to have it on a new ps5 or xbx with no install base.

I mean I completely agree with you but it does happen. The strangest part in all of it is the first year of a generation is typically the lowest volume in terms of sales adoption barring the end or twilight years so it makes little sense financially as well.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Sony didn’t say all games would be next gen exclusive, just that they would have PS5 exclusives. So expect Resogun 2 to be next gen exclusive while they port all their other games to PS4 and PS5.

You have to learn to read between the lines.

They say they will have some PS5 exclusives, they don‘t say every 1st party game is PS5 exclusive.

This way they don’t lie, but they do deceive, and most of you bought it hook, line and sinker,

That's rich coming from one of the guys who buys everything MS says hook line and sinker.

 

[Hobbygaming]

You guys need to think broader. This changes literally nothing, they're already targeting PC up and down the spectrum and they can tune the game for different results accordingly.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, developers tear down, they don't build up. They start at the top of what they can do with a product and then scale back for targets as needed.

This has been in the cards for like nearly 4 years, this isn't some new plan. They publicly discussed this, forward and backward compatibility and the dissolving of generational lines.

If only you were better informed garbage posts like this wouldn't exist.

It's easier for developers to start on the base console then scale up rather than design a next gen game then find out they have no clue how to make it work on a 1.32 teraflop box

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's easier for developers to start on the base console then scale up rather than design a next gen game then find out they have no clue how to make it work on a 1.32 teraflop box

Except they know exactly how to scale down that low which immediately invalidates this logic.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I mean I completely agree with you but it does happen. The strangest part in all of it is the first year of a generation is typically the lowest volume in terms of sales adoption barring the end or twilight years so it makes little sense financially as well.

Which is why the job of first parties not focused on moving games even more to a game rental model (remember when they said “our DRM plans are good, just too easy for you”? Well the narrative that all those people have been purged away kind of hid it so I understand ) is different than a big third party.

Whenever a new generation starts, the famous “reset”, since people here are taking the pro consumer and pro competition angle, is very good for the smaller third parties and those challenging the “incumbent leaders/AAAA publishers” that have a fresh chance to change the status quo and get recognised.

Normally it is the big monopolies that hate the idea of console generations and possibilities of “resets”.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Except they know exactly how to scale down that low which immediately invalidates this logic.

When they design their frame rate and core gameplay they will take a HW spec of reference and build around that, especially if consoles are involved, especially if they want their game to run well and to waste money re-inventing core parts of their games while porting then down (unless they can sell it to you twice)... see your previous example with Tomb Raider.

 

[CJY]

Never seemed wild, just stupid.

Just to be clear, Microsoft can do whatever they please, no skin off my nose, but to make this kind of announcement a year out from launch? Definitely stupid.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

When they design their frame rate and core gameplay they will take a HW spec of reference and build around that, especially if consoles are involved, especially if they want their game to run well and to waste money re-inventing core parts of their games while porting then down (unless they can sell it to you twice)... see your previous example with Tomb Raider.

That was done by two completely separate studios, one developed and the other ported it, the same with Forza Horizon 2.

Did Forza Horizon 3 and 4 exhibit a pronounced difference to Forza Horizon 2 graphically or mechanically? No, just the typical "We've been working with the hardware for years now and can better manipulate our code around it to produce better results".

The same can be said of Shadow of the Tomb Raider which has absolutely zero 7th generation influence.

The lowest spec doesn't facilitate a compromise on the upper spec.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That was done by two completely separate studios, one developed and the other ported it, the same with Forza Horizon 2.

Did Forza Horizon 3 and 4 exhibit a pronounced difference to Forza Horizon 2 graphically or mechanically? No, just the typical "We've been working with the hardware for years now and can better manipulate our code around it to produce better results".

The same can be said of Shadow of the Tomb Raider which has absolutely zero 7th generation influence.

The lowest spec doesn't facilitate a compromise on the upper spec.

Of course it does, it is more work... it is that simple. You have time (want to avoid shortages or to miss your window), quality, and scope. Choose two and compromise over the other. All three have to deal with a big weight called limited budget and opportunity cost.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Except they know exactly how to scale down that low which immediately invalidates this logic.

If only it was as easy as you make it sound. Res and frames sure, but what if advanced AI and machine learning is a crucial part of the game. How will you scale that down to Jaguar cores?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

If only it was as easy as you make it sound. Res and frames sure, but what if advanced AI and machine learning is a crucial part of the game. How will you scale that down to Jaguar cores?

Easier than you may think. It only becomes harder when its a shared world with multiple AI routines that need to be the same over different configurations. But for a single player game, that's easy as hell. Precision can be adjusted just as easily as LOD you know.

 

[Gavon West]

I'm buying it because I want better graphics. I've got the original Xbox One, not even the OneS, but I want better gfx and gaming in 4K. If you care about that then it's worth buying the system, if you don't well then keep playing on the PC, OneS or OneX.

But that's a good thing... Microsoft is giving you a choice.

This^^

Jesus, gamers are fucking stupid. Can't see the forest for the trees nor the intellect to build a fire in the freezing cold, even if they could.

I mean, really, how dumb to do you have to be in order to know that neither Microsoft or Sony is just going to leave behind 50 - 100 million fanbase? Games next gen will look beastly on new gen hardware and will simply scale down for last gen hardware, while still looking great for those not ready to upgrade.

To Microsoft its, upgrade when you're ready, or never do if you own a righteous PC. Thats pro consumer AF.

 

[Vawn]

this is just for the first year of the console... SDKs are even finalized yet.. there is still not a way of using the fully potential, like every gen.. it always takes time... this is nothing new.. this have been like that every gen.

Yeah, so just until the time we start hearing about the Xbox SeX Pro.

 

[Gavon West]

Xbox has all the negatives of a console without the positives. Games not designed specifically for the console which means they'll not be as optimized as in consoles, no real exclusives since everything is ported to PC but still paying for online (which btw is a Microsoft invention), closed system, store monopoly, no mods and so on. Taking into account all the ridiculous disadvantages this console has compared to PC that is trying to become without the hassle of, you know, treating customers better, you should just build a decent PC connect it to your TV and have a FAR better gaming machine than this bullshit.

You can't afford to be this ignorant.

 

[Gavon West]

All these threads to "justify" a strategy...

There is no strategy. Microsoft studios is 1 year behind schedule for the Scarlet exclusives they are making, so they are releasing the games 1 year later than planned. Done.

Any justification for claiming why there is "no need" for Scarlet exclusives, would have to face the reality that MS is still producing these games. So clearly, MS WANT Scarlet Exclusives. Or they wouldn't be making them still. Just because they are releasing them 1 year late doesn't make it some kind of master plan.

.

 

[Gavon West]

All I know for certain is that there will definitely be no need for me to buy an XSX for the next 2 years, but that Sony will be making games that will be offering me a reason to need to buy a PS5, so it seems pretty obvious which company is making the better approach to things.

It's also going to create the worst of both worlds, games on XO will run like shit, games on XSX will look shit compared to Sony's true next gen games, and the minority of palyers Microsoft already has will have no reason to get an XSX but a constant bombardment of reasons to jump to Playstation.

Games on Series X will look like shit, you say? Compared to even Sony's pure 1st party games? I'll take that bet! Put your money where your mouth is, son. Put something on the line for it... That's just my game!

 

[Hobbygaming]

Easier than you may think. It only becomes harder when its a shared world with multiple AI routines that need to be the same over different configurations. But for a single player game, that's easy as hell. Precision can be adjusted just as easily as LOD you know.

I think people are underestimating how difficult developing games is. I have enough knowledge to know that it's hard especially when the smallest change could introduce 20 bugs, then fixing that bug could introduce 20 more bugs

And there's the rumblings from developers having to code on too much hardware next generation

 

[nani17]

I dont think anyone at Xbox team is interested to hire your average GAF poster as representative.

Couldn't do worse than Don did let's be honest

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I think people are underestimating how difficult developing games is. I have enough knowledge to know that it's hard especially when the smallest change could introduce 20 bugs, then fixing that bug could introduce 20 more bugs

And there's the rumblings from developers having to code on too much hardware next generation

I’ve been developing and working with game engines for 20 years, but please, continue. But one thing I can agree on is one change is an exponential bug nightmare if you’re not careful

 

[spatialawareness]

Another forbes contributor shilling for MS..Sony Too, is a bad and false argument. Sony will have PS5 exclusives at launch. Having Ps5 exclusives does not mean there will be NO ps4 games, see every other sony console.... It's possible to "GASP" do both.

 

[spatialawareness]

Another flawed argument -= Last gens userbase = sales..Do we ened to remind folks how ps3 and 360 sales cratered as soon as PS4 and x1 launched? Most of the media in the US seem clueless tbh, about gaming. Userbase arguments are almost always wrong. Userbase is not linear, and userbase does = better sales. See Second Son, sold more then any infamous on a fraction of the userbase, or halo 3 on 360 on a low userbase.

 

[Grinchy]

At this point, I'm honestly not sure what the point of XSX is. If the console won't have any exclusives then why would I buy it?

It's really simple:

The Xbox One X plays Xbox One games at 4K with enhancements.

The Xbox Series X plays Xbox One games at 4K with other enhancements.

How could you not be hyped?

 

[Hobbygaming]

I’ve been developing and working with game engines for 20 years, but please, continue. But one thing I can agree on is one change is an exponential bug nightmare if you’re not careful

Oh nice. I've just heard some developers say that it's challenging but I guess it depends on the tools and scope of the game you're working on

 

[Hobbygaming]

It's really simple:

The Xbox One X plays Xbox One games at 4K with enhancements.

The Xbox Series X plays Xbox One games at 4K with other enhancements.

How could you not be hyped?

This killed me

 

[Gavin Stevens]

To be fair most developers make things modular, so they you can adjust stuff on the fly with relative ease. For example the general thinking on Gaf is that you can have a tree with realistic physics for wind blowing, leaf fx for leaves falling, skeletal animation for deformation, and PBR pipeline for visuals... or you can have ocarina of time imposters They don’t see that every single part of that can be changed independent of each other, and each one has massive impacts on performance. Even then you can’t just say “disable this for a fps gain” because it depends on your bottleneck, it depends of where the performance drain is coming from. For example, disabling sub surface scattering on your leaves may make zero difference when your scene is over budget on polycount.

But all this shit? It’s easier to make top tits visuals and then port down and dumb down where needed.

But of course, people here will tell you that will result in ocarina of time imposters and nothing more

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Yea? Should have made this fucking clear during the first time u made that dumb comment. Already seeing videos online saying 'NO EXCLUSIVES" and lots of people dissapointed. They wont read this comment u made.

What a fucking idiot

Should've made what clear? they didn't say anything new.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Is that fact? Explain this then hotshot, also they look exactly the same don't they.

What's it like being a rocket scientist?

Where are the Trees?? LMAOO

 

[SleepDoctor]

Forbes doing damage control here like a muthafucker.

On one hand I get it, you want your games to possibly have a big install base and not make customers feel left out (especially the ones who just bought an X 2 or years ago).

But if you're not going to give customers an incentive to upgrade, that's your fault. We will already have 3rd party cross gen titles, no need for every exclusive to be as well. Besides maybe 1 or 2.

My plan has always been to buy both at launch but this dumbass decision has basically told me to wait another year. Unless I see some day and night difference in the crossgen games, i will wait.

 

[nani17]

Can we now officially call them shit PC's since they're really really trying to be one?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Hey do people buy new graphics cards? I mean, the old ones will still play the new games, just not as quick? Seems pretty shit to me, all these idiots upgrading every few years...

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Forza Horizon 2 was the only cross gen MS first party title this gen.

its wasnt, there were several more. not to mention games like Titanfall and even Rise of the Tomb Raider were released on the 360 and lets just say MS definitely had a word on this.

 

[GameOfPixelsX]

A whole lot of discussion here on something that will not impact sales, games, or even enjoyment of the platform. Just posturing by people who want to put one company on a pedestal over another.

 

[Panajev2001a]

To be fair most developers make things modular, so they you can adjust stuff on the fly with relative ease. For example the general thinking on Gaf is that you can have a tree with realistic physics for wind blowing, leaf fx for leaves falling, skeletal animation for deformation, and PBR pipeline for visuals... or you can have ocarina of time imposters They don’t see that every single part of that can be changed independent of each other, and each one has massive impacts on performance. Even then you can’t just say “disable this for a fps gain” because it depends on your bottleneck, it depends of where the performance drain is coming from. For example, disabling sub surface scattering on your leaves may make zero difference when your scene is over budget on polycount.

But all this shit? It’s easier to make top tits visuals and then port down and dumb down where needed.

But of course, people here will tell you that will result in ocarina of time imposters and nothing more

You keep raising this straw-man that no game can be adapted to multiple HW configurations and thus multiple performance profiles with a bit extreme yet funny example. I will give you that too. We do not even disagree on that.

What I disagree on is that it becomes a matter of cost and resources as well as focus: even when you can “easily” port it, it costs time and money. When I buy a new console I would like devs, especially if they are first party ones, to focus on what sets the next generation apart and avoid spending their budget on setting up the configuration of the down scaled ports and QA it all and then ship it (even in the cases where it is automagical).

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

If the primary goal was to sell consoles. For MS, it obviously isn't.

If they were selling consoles you wouldn't hear anyone pushing this piss poor line, cut it out.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Hey do people buy new graphics cards? I mean, the old ones will still play the new games, just not as quick? Seems pretty shit to me, all these idiots upgrading every few years...

Same with cellphones... no, it IS fully worth it if you keep upgrading it every year .

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Look we can argue semantics about this until the cows come home but the truth of the matter is this will apply to Ms exclusives only, for like, a year?

So that’s MS putting in the leg work.

For like two games.

That everybody already said are shit anyway because MS has shit exclusives?

So you have less than a handful of games that will do this, and everybody is acting like it’s the end of the world? If MS want to do it, and they have the man power to do it right, then...what’s the issue?

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

This^^

Jesus, gamers are fucking stupid. Can't see the forest for the trees nor the intellect to build a fire in the freezing cold, even if they could.

I mean, really, how dumb to do you have to be in order to know that neither Microsoft or Sony is just going to leave behind 50 - 100 million fanbase? Games next gen will look beastly on new gen hardware and will simply scale down for last gen hardware, while still looking great for those not ready to upgrade.

To Microsoft its, upgrade when you're ready, or never do if you own a righteous PC. Thats pro consumer AF.

They left PS1 PS2 and PS3 behind easily
...were excited about Next Gen because Next Gen Games.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

Remember - MS not only have to make worthy exclusives this coming generation, but they also have to try not to cancel them after the initial unveiling.

 

[Panajev2001a]

* t=t0 Exclusive matters, look at all the studios!!! Monster XSX!
* t=t1 Exclusives? It is not pro consumers, cross generation games are the only pro consumer thing to do... they never hold anything back and are the best option for anyone involved.
* t=t2 This is only for a year then bam exclusives
* t=t3 Exclusive matters, look at all the studios!!! Monster XSX!

...

 

[Bernkastel]

Couldn't do worse than Don did let's be honest

I thought GAF liked him, since he was not at fault.

Can we now officially call them shit PC's since they're really really trying to be one?

All consoles are just locked down PCs.

If they were selling consoles you wouldn't hear anyone pushing this piss poor line, cut it out.

"Hey guys, we will force you to buy these launch titles on PS5 that were designed with PS4 hardware in mind and ported over to PS5" apparently seems to make fans happy.

 

[Clear]

MS priority is keeping GamePass afloat. End of story. All other considerations are secondary.

GamePass runs on racks that support One S level tech, replacing them is a massive undertaking and can only be justified if they have sufficient content to justify the refit. Unfortunately most third parties wont be in any rush to dump expensive "next-gen" SKU's onto a service that is largely legacy content, so its going to take a significant amount of time to transition.

 

[quest]

They left PS1 PS2 and PS3 behind easily
...were excited about Next Gen because Next Gen Games.

Well the PS1 and ps2 for sure the PS3 outside the Sony firewall of main land EU and asia not so much.

PS2 Still Outselling PS3 by Four to One

Not only is Sony's next-gen console getting roundly shafted by the Wii and the Xbox 360, Sony is still shifting four times as many units of its younger sibling, the PS2.... Sony has learned its lesson from the PS1/PS2 switchover, too "What happened last time with PS1 is that they left a lot of...

www.wired.com

 

[Bernkastel]

Look we can argue semantics about this until the cows come home but the truth of the matter is this will apply to Ms exclusives only, for like, a year?

So that’s MS putting in the leg work.

For like two games.

That everybody already said are shit anyway because MS has shit exclusives?

So you have less than a handful of games that will do this, and everybody is acting like it’s the end of the world? If MS want to do it, and they have the man power to do it right, then...what’s the issue?

It triggers GAF that a plastic box they don't like does not follow the business model of a plastic box they like. They must be evil and after people's money!

 

[Bernkastel]

MS priority is keeping GamePass afloat. End of story. All other considerations are secondary.

GamePass runs on racks that support One S level tech, replacing them is a massive undertaking and can only be justified if they have sufficient content to justify the refit. Unfortunately most third parties wont be in any rush to dump expensive "next-gen" SKU's onto a service that is largely legacy content, so its going to take a significant amount of time to transition.

Dunno why you are using this template but the Xbox One first party support thing is only for the first year.

 

[Gavon West]

They left PS1 PS2 and PS3 behind easily
...were excited about Next Gen because Next Gen Games.

SEries X will still have next gen looking games! They'll scale down. Jesus! How many times do you guys have to be told????? You're embarrassing yourselves. But I digress.... do what you do..

 

[kyoji]

Your best bet is Guerilla Games and even they wont have there title at launch.

Anything upto the real Series X exclusives like Hellblade II is either originally announced as a Xbox One game(like Halo Infinite) or is not some graphical showcase that needs to be locked to Series X(Everwild).

Using a fancy choice of words to create a narrative is what I will call fanboying. Anything in the first year of a console release is always designed in its predecessor and ported over to the current gen. Locking it in the newer console is often used by companies to drive sales, but does not mean it is some ethical standard to adhere to

The reason changes based on console war narrative. Never ever have launch games took full advantage of the system

They pretty much said it was for the first few years, so not those new studios and ips. You dont have any idea what you are talking about with an awful attempt to make everything fit your console war narrative.


You probably wont buy it anyway, why bother and make it look like you are interested ?

You mean like the Kotaku article defending Sony ?

If locking a cross-gen title to a new system to drive sales is what makes you buy a console anyway, then you dont have any hope. By the time those "Sony first party titles taking advantage of PS5" come out, Microsoft will have already shifted to Series X console exclusives.

Im sorry did i miss sonys full ps5 reveal? also why would sony deviate from there previous generation strategys... theyve always had exclusive software to support and showcase what the new hardware is capable of even in its early stages.. i suggest looking at their portfolio starting with ps2 > ps3> ps4 there were launch ready exclusives in each of those previous gens that were not cross gen... some of u come up with anything to make yourselves feel better about some of the odd decisions xbox makes. rather it works out for them or not is irrelevant but dont lump in sony or make assumptions, they are the industy leader and when youre in a position of #1 if it isnt broken dont fix it....

 

[Panajev2001a]

It triggers GAF that a plastic box they don't like does not follow the business model of a plastic box they like. They must be evil and after people's money!

...

 

[Aidah]

So basically it means that Microsoft's games on Series X for the first couple of years are going to feel similar to taking an XB1 game now and playing it on a high end PC. A much better version of the same core experience, rather than a completely new experience that's only made possible by the new hardware.

Well, at least Sony will make some next gen only games the first couple of years, even 3rd parties will probably start releasing some at least in the second year.